"Mike....."(not "Mike")
Niko
instead of posting crap to USENET all day & night?
Dave
> Why doesn't the lazy bastard get a job and stop sponging off his wife
> instead of posting crap to USENET all day & night?
I do wish that you would post some of the original before you go into
whinge mode.
Dave
Giusi
news:1i310wa8a2mzw$.199uv28si5elb.dlg@40tude.net...
> Why doesn't the lazy bastard get a job and stop sponging off his wife
> instead of posting crap to USENET all day & night?
Jealous, eh?
Mike....
> Jealous, eh?
I get my free bus pass any day :-(
--
"Mike....."(not "Mike")
remove clothing to email
Mike
"Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1jixcye3qhel6$.1t6yjht3phq2u.dlg@40tude.net...
Got mine ages ago :-)
Don't use it much as I prefer the convenience of a car!
Mike
Mike....
> t my free bus pass any day :-(
>
> I've been eligible for a free bus pass for over five years...
>
> Still haven't asked for one, though.
Ahh, you have to ask!
Mike
--
"Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1r2fjim89ig14$.1qx4tvs0yoscy$.dlg@40tude.net...
Yes and when you get it you can travel free on ALL local busses, and in our
case, the trains as well :-))
Mike
Jane Gillett
Anne Jackson <amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> The message from "Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> contains
> these words:
> > Following up to Giusi
> > > Jealous, eh?
> > I get my free bus pass any day :-(
> I've been eligible for a free bus pass for over five years...
> Still haven't asked for one, though.
We are too. Been meaning to get one as it could be handy if we go somewhere
else. No buses here.
Cheers
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Mike....
>>> I get my free bus pass any day :-(
>
>> I've been eligible for a free bus pass for over five years...
>
>> Still haven't asked for one, though.
>
> We are too. Been meaning to get one as it could be handy if we go somewhere
> else. No buses here.
Shhhh, David thinks buses go everywhere :-) Actually thats quite a funny
statement, buses are generally about "going somewhere else" LOL. I see
Ramsay and various politicians in Europe are going on about local food, I
think Ramsay has thought it through less than we had the other day!
Mike....
>> Shhhh, David thinks buses go everywhere :-)
>
> It would be a rare area with no bus service at all. Usually, what car
> drivers mean by "no bus service", is "the bus does not wait for me in my
> driveway or at the doorstep of my destination until it suits me to
> travel".
For me, who likes the hills and unspoilt coast, it means theres no bus
stopping anywhere near where I want to walk at the time I want to
start/finish, if at all. Most places I go for leisure theres something like
a single bus going to the nearest town and nothing else, sometimes not even
coming back same day. Useless.
Round here, its more a matter of doing journeys conveniently, quickly
(usually 4 times or more longer by bus, yes, i have checked) and with a
boot that will carry large heavy stuff.
> Bus users, especially rural ones, understand they may have to walk on
> their legs to reach a bus route;
this car drivers cant walk or cant understand stuff is pretty pathetic. My
hobby is walking. Most people who share that hobby drive to where they
walk. They "understand" walking. They "understand" bus routes. They dont
use a bus because its very inconvenient. simple as that.
>travel according to its timetable,
no thanks, i'll go when *I* want to go. (Often very early in the morning).
>and
> possibly, use their arms/backs for carrying something to and from the
> bus.
Yawn, more car users are lazy/unfit/stupid nonsense. Have you noticed rich
people dont go by bus? Why is that? Because they are stupid? No.
Mike....
> Just like people using trains, planes, boats etc.
trains can take you between cities efficiently, planes its obvious, boats
are a wonderful way to travel if you have time.
Luggage seems to be an area where fantasy comes into things. I go to the
shops with my mother in law, the weeks main shop fills the boot, we couldnt
carry it. Looking around I see families with kids with big trolleys of
stuff they couldnt manage on the bus. I go to the wine merchant and buy a
couple of dozen bottles, I buy a sack of cement, I take a petrol
brushcutter to the allotment, I'm told you can do all this on the
bus..............
John
> The message <aofd9v521dtl.1w...@40tude.net>
>
>>>>> I get my free bus pass any day :-(
>>>
>>>> I've been eligible for a free bus pass for over five years...
>>>
>>>> Still haven't asked for one, though.
>>>
>>> We are too. Been meaning to get one as it could be handy if we go
>>> somewhere
>>> else. No buses here.
>
>> Shhhh, David thinks buses go everywhere :-)
>
> car drivers mean by "no bus service", is "the bus does not wait for
> me in my driveway or at the doorstep of my destination until it
> suits me to travel".
>
> and possibly, use their arms/backs for carrying something to and from
>
> Janet
I live *less than 3 miles from europe's largest bus station*
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Bus_Station) and yet only have one bus
per hour (when it wants to turn up) and that's only up to 6.15 in the
evening, when the service stops altogether - oh, and we get no bus service
at all on a Sunday!!!
Public transport is a pathetic joke in this country. No wonder there's so
many cars around.
John
Mike....
> Public transport is a pathetic joke in this country. No wonder there's so
> many cars around.
I dont think it explains cars, thats peoples choice, however if we regarded
good public transport as essential, it must surely make *some* difference
to the number of cars.
Dave
> I live *less than 3 miles from europe's largest bus station*
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Bus_Station) and yet only have one bus
> per hour (when it wants to turn up) and that's only up to 6.15 in the
> evening, when the service stops altogether - oh, and we get no bus service
> at all on a Sunday!!!
What's the bus number John. I live on the 125/126 route, so we get a bus
every ten minutes.
> Public transport is a pathetic joke in this country. No wonder there's so
> many cars around.
On, nail, head, hit, the , the. Place in the right order.
Dave
John
We're on the Lightfoot Lane route - used to be Preston Bus 36 IIRC
(Ingol/Tanterton via Lightfoot Lane) but now PB have dropped the route and
we're on the Stagecoach route to Chipping!
Unless, of course, you have the audacity to want to come home at around 3.15
to 3.30 in the afternoon, when the driver is coming up Black Bull Lane and
pulls over at the last stop before Cadley Causeway and announces to anyone
who wants to do the bit of the route from there, to the Black Bull, then
turning left onto Garstang Rd, and left again into Lightfoot Lane, that his
route alters at that time of day and he doesn't go that way now, but goes
down Cadley, into Ingol and some back-water route that's miles out of your
way!
AARRGGHH!!!
Rant over :o)
John
Dave
Sheesh, I see what you mean now.
No wonder there are so many cars on the road.
Dave
Elaine Jones
posted on 12 May 2008 by Janet Baraclough
I would like to add:
> Bus users, especially rural ones, understand they may have to walk on
> their legs to reach a bus route; travel according to its timetable, and
> possibly, use their arms/backs for carrying something to and from the
> bus. Just like people using trains, planes, boats etc.
In this rural area the few buses don't go where I want to go - or
involve waits and changes so that it takes just under half a day to
get to Chester; similar time to return, which doesn't leave much time
for shopping.
In addition my bus pass (if I had one) wouldn't be valid over the
border.
--
.ElaineJ. Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
.Virtual. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
StrongArm Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
.RISC PC. Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup
Giusi
I see
> Ramsay and various politicians in Europe are going on about local food, I
> think Ramsay has thought it through less than we had the other day!
> --
> "Mike....."(not "Mike")
Local schmocal, none of them have really thought it through. I think we
need a ministry of keeping loudmouths honest, that will provide a list to
public figures of what they actually can eat. They should then be required
to eat from that list once a week before shooting the mouth off.
Jane Gillett
Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> The message <aofd9v521dtl.1w...@40tude.net>
> from "Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> contains these words:
> > Following up to Jane Gillett
> > >>> I get my free bus pass any day :-(
> > >
> > >> I've been eligible for a free bus pass for over five years...
> > >
> > >> Still haven't asked for one, though.
> > >
> > > We are too. Been meaning to get one as it could be handy if we go
> > > somewhere
> > > else. No buses here.
> > Shhhh, David thinks buses go everywhere :-)
> It would be a rare area with no bus service at all. Usually, what car
> drivers mean by "no bus service", is "the bus does not wait for me in my
> driveway or at the doorstep of my destination until it suits me to
> travel".
> Bus users, especially rural ones, understand they may have to walk on
> their legs to reach a bus route; travel according to its timetable, and
> possibly, use their arms/backs for carrying something to and from the
> bus. Just like people using trains, planes, boats etc.
How big is your concept of "here" in this context?
Jane
> Janet
Christina Websell
"Janet Baraclough" <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303039303...@zetnet.co.uk...
.
>> How big is your concept of "here" in this context?
>
> :-)
>
Tell me if you live in Beeby, Leics, how often you can get a bus?
Once a week? Or try Cold Newton, Leics. I think the natives have never seen
one.
Some people seem to think that their circumstances apply to everyone.
Myself, I have to walk nearly a mile to the nearest bus stop and it won't
take me to work.
Mike....
> In addition my bus pass (if I had one) wouldn't be valid over the
> border.
so I wont be using my english bus pass to climb any scottish hills? That
settles it :-)
Mike....
>> How big is your concept of "here" in this context?
>
> Tell me where your "here " is, and I'll show you how big my concept is :-)
getting away from concepts, when i go to Lizard, the bus starts about 1
mile away but then goes no nearer the places I want to start from! I think
it runs once or twice a day?
Mike....
> Some people seem to think that their circumstances apply to everyone.
I think thats a very good point in this argument.
>Myself, I have to walk nearly a mile to the nearest bus stop and it won't
>take me to work.
I think my nearest bus stop is slightly less than that, I wonder if they
are happy with you getting on with assorted agricultural tools and
lawnmowers, assuming I could find a way of carrying them, then of course it
takes an hour instead of 10 minutes, hardly surprising I use the car, is
it?
Anne Chambers
> Following up to Elaine Jones
>
>> In addition my bus pass (if I had one) wouldn't be valid over the
>> border.
>
> so I wont be using my english bus pass to climb any scottish hills? That
> settles it :-)
Hah - must be some bus pass if it helps you climb hills ;)
I could do with one like that - would it work for stairs as well ? :P
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
Jane Gillett
> from Jane Gillett <j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk> contains these words:
> Tell me where your "here " is, and I'll show you how big my concept is :-)
You show me yours and I'll show you mine? I see.
Are you planning to tune your concept to be just slightly bigger than my
here?
Nearest regular bus service about 6 miles away; I think I've seen the
occasional bus about 3 miles away but not often and don't know if it's
regular.
We have had a service about a mile away which gave you about half an hour
in the local town twice a week and that didn't get many takers - what can
you do if you HAVE to be back at the return stop within 30 mins? Also one
that gave about 2 hours (that was reasonable) every Sat, but presumably
that didn't get enough takers any either. We also had one which took you
out one day and brought you back another day but that didn't seem to be
favoured for some reason.
Cheers
Mike....
> Hah - must be some bus pass if it helps you climb hills ;)
> I could do with one like that - would it work for stairs as well ? :P
its got a BIG helium ballon attached :-)
Mike....
> Also one
> that gave about 2 hours (that was reasonable) every Sat, but presumably
> that didn't get enough takers any either.
For rural areas you probably need to think some sort of taxi/bus service.
Moving small numbers of people to diverse destinations isnt something buses
are good at. The majority will desert it for car, leaving the carless
stranded.
Tim C.
> Following up to Anne Chambers
>
>> Hah - must be some bus pass if it helps you climb hills ;)
>> I could do with one like that - would it work for stairs as well ? :P
>
> its got a BIG helium ballon attached :-)
very environmentally unfriendly, squandering a non-renewable, rare resource
such as helium. :-)
A while back I had a chat with the local Green Party at a stand in town
about them using helium in their balloons. I think they thought I was
bonkers.
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
> Also one
> that gave about 2 hours (that was reasonable) every Sat, but presumably
> that didn't get enough takers any either.
It's hard work carrying the family's week's shopping back in a bus, then
having to walk a mile the other end. " hours is pushing it if you have to
do anything out of the ordinary as well. Cue David to say he has no
problem.
--
Tim C.
Ophelia
Your point being.................?
<G>
Tim C.
No points to balloons, they're round :-)
--
Tim C.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
Cue David to say he has zero interest in discussing this with you any
more.
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins
Tim C.
chancellor wrote:
>>.... Cue David to say he has no
>> problem.
>
> Cue David to say he has zero interest in discussing this with you any
> more.
LOL! very good!
--
Tim C.
Dave
But at the end of the day it is re-cyclable :-)
Dave
Mike....
> But at the end of the day it is re-cyclable :-)
not if the string breaks.
Mike....
>> so I wont be using my english bus pass to climb any scottish hills? That
>> settles it :-)
>
> Nope, it's like I toldyer..you have to use legs :-)
LEGS! I've arrived on some scottish summits using teeth and finger nails
and descended with five points of contact....and I dont mean an ice axe!
Tim C.
At the very end of the day, when the sun explodes. :-)
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
> Following up to Dave
>
>> But at the end of the day it is re-cyclable :-)
>
> not if the string breaks.
:-)
Even if it doesn't, the helium gets into the atmosphere and in a very short
time is on its way to the moon.
--
Tim C.
Dave
So how do we extract helium from the atmosphere, it it all ends up on
the moon?
Dave
Christina Websell
"Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kqmvrt3c4rri.1b...@40tude.net...
No. It really does depend on lifestyle and how close you are to amenities
and transport. I can hardly carry 3 x 20 kilo bags of chicken food on my
back from the farm I get it from (even if there was a bus there and back,
which there isn't.)
OTOH, I redeem myself in other ways. My waste to landfill is almost
nothing. I compost almost everything tea bags,vac cleaner fluff. veg
peelings go to the chickens, eggs shells are baked, crushed up and fed back
to them as a calcium source with their grit.
I recycle glass, cardboard, paper, plastic bottles, tins.
The woodburner takes care of most of the rest ;-)
Dave
Big snip
> OTOH, I redeem myself in other ways. My waste to landfill is almost
> nothing. I compost almost everything tea bags,vac cleaner fluff. veg
> peelings go to the chickens, eggs shells are baked, crushed up and fed back
> to them as a calcium source with their grit.
How do you do that? I hope you do it in a green way, the egg shells I
mean ;-)
Dave
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
[]
> No. It really does depend on lifestyle and how close you are to amenities
> and transport. I can hardly carry 3 x 20 kilo bags of chicken food on my
> back from the farm I get it from (even if there was a bus there and back,
> which there isn't.)
Most of the people clogging the car parks at the Sainsbury's near me
aren't carring 3 massive bags of chicken food. They're usually doing
similar shopping to me, and coming from similar distances. It's just
that they have a car, and many of them probably can't conceive of not
using it for such a task as food shopping.
When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
say. It's a choice they make, that's all. Food shopping is a serious
business IMO, and shouldn't be crammed into one hectic hour on a weekend
morning.
Christina Websell
"Dave" <dave...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:98mdnVpnVP5oWrHV...@bt.com...
How do I bake my eggshells do you mean? Why, I put them in a basin on top
of my woodburner when it is on, of course and leave them there for a day or
two.
Perfick ;-)
Christina Websell
"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ih0c9d.egqjnq756imeN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
> Christina Websell <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> []
>> No. It really does depend on lifestyle and how close you are to amenities
>> and transport. I can hardly carry 3 x 20 kilo bags of chicken food on my
>> back from the farm I get it from (even if there was a bus there and back,
>> which there isn't.)
>
> Most of the people clogging the car parks at the Sainsbury's near me
> aren't carring 3 massive bags of chicken food. They're usually doing
> similar shopping to me, and coming from similar distances. It's just
> that they have a car, and many of them probably can't conceive of not
> using it for such a task as food shopping.
I do agree that you should walk if you can. But how to get it over?
>
> When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
> junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
> often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
> thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
> say. It's a choice they make, that's all.
Packaging is up to the manufacturers.
If I had 4 or more children, I might have to shop once a week. Once again
you are assuming that what fits you fits all.
Food shopping is a serious
> business IMO, and shouldn't be crammed into one hectic hour on a weekend
> morning.
I take my food shopping *very* seriously, However, if I was in full time
work, had lots of children to ferry around in the evening to Guides, Scouts,
violin/piano/whatever lessons, football, hockey I might try and cram it into
one hectic hour on the weekend.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1ih0c9d.egqjnq756imeN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
> > Christina Websell <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > []
> >> No. It really does depend on lifestyle and how close you are to amenities
> >> and transport. I can hardly carry 3 x 20 kilo bags of chicken food on my
> >> back from the farm I get it from (even if there was a bus there and back,
> >> which there isn't.)
> >
> > Most of the people clogging the car parks at the Sainsbury's near me
> > aren't carring 3 massive bags of chicken food. They're usually doing
> > similar shopping to me, and coming from similar distances. It's just
> > that they have a car, and many of them probably can't conceive of not
> > using it for such a task as food shopping.
>
> I do agree that you should walk if you can. But how to get it over?
With difficulty. I think that everything points to us becoming generally
lazier.
> > When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
> > junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
> > often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
> > thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
> > say. It's a choice they make, that's all.
>
> Packaging is up to the manufacturers.
Not quite. It's up to us as well, especially by refusing to use
packaging, discarding it _in_ the shops, and complaining.
> If I had 4 or more children,
Most people don't.
> I might have to shop once a week. Once again
> you are assuming that what fits you fits all.
No, never once do I assume that. That's just a canard.
--
Christina Websell
you need and you don't have a large family. You frequently castigate
people who use cars because you don't need to. It's unfair.
I would hate to have to walk to my nearest supermarket, half an hour and
walk back with my shopping, half an hour back.
I tried to get to work once on the bus. Apart from having to walk nearly a
mile to a bus stop, I needed two buses and they did not connect. It took me
2 and a half hours to get there. It takes me 45 minutes in the car.
Giusi
> When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
> junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
> often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
> thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
> say. It's a choice they make, that's all. Food shopping is a serious
> business IMO, and shouldn't be crammed into one hectic hour on a weekend
> morning.
You are beginning to sound like a nut to me, too, whereas I thought I knew
your POV before. You look at those cars and can tell where they came from?
You assume that others can shop 3-5 times a week because you do?
When I shall live walking distance to the shopping, I and my cart will wheel
to and fro, but I will not drive to the market 3-5 times a week with petrol
at this price, nor will I walk 9 km with bags of flour and legs of lamb.
It's also possible that some of the cars you see are making their last stop
from a whole list of errands that are done on a Saturday. If you saw mine
that would certainly be true. We cannot drive into the center, so I have
had to drive to another town to buy something sold at our market because I
can't carry 40 pounds to my car.
Ophelia
> "Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:kqmvrt3c4rri.1b...@40tude.net...
>> Following up to Christina Websell
>>
>>> Some people seem to think that their circumstances apply to
>>> everyone.
>>
>> I think thats a very good point in this argument.
>>
>>> Myself, I have to walk nearly a mile to the nearest bus stop and it
>>> won't take me to work.
>>
>> I think my nearest bus stop is slightly less than that, I wonder if
>> they are happy with you getting on with assorted agricultural tools
>> and lawnmowers, assuming I could find a way of carrying them, then
>> of course it
takes an hour instead of 10 minutes, hardly surprising I use the
>> car, is it?
I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
fish:))
Mike......
> Most of the people clogging the car parks at the Sainsbury's near me
> aren't carring 3 massive bags of chicken food.
you need to get away from the city centre and try all this in the real
world, oh I forgot you did and moved back because you couldnt cope, in your
words you were spending all day on the tram.....
Your big problem is you make sweeping generalisations and then justify them
from city centre no family living.
No actually your big problem is you tied your colours to a mast and have to
believe in it lock stock and barrel.
Mike......
> I take my food shopping *very* seriously, However, if I was in full time
> work, had lots of children to ferry around in the evening to Guides, Scouts,
> violin/piano/whatever lessons, football, hockey I might try and cram it into
> one hectic hour on the weekend.
Youre wasting your time, David has reverse engineered everything to fit his
non car thinking. If we all go to the supermarket by car once a week, it
has to be "uncivilised" and "hectic". Theres nothing "hectic" about my
supermarket visit on a Saturday, that's just another fantasy. They have
wine and food tasting laid on, we know a fair number of other shoppers as a
result, its far from uncivilised.
It would certainly be hectic doing it by bus.
Mike......
> I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
> Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
> fish:))
Nobody is saying you cant survive with just buses, its just a lot harder
and you lose a lot of time in the process. I think you can only have a
worthwhile debate about how to improve PT if you start from that point.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)"
>
> > When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
> > junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
> > often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
> > thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
> > say. It's a choice they make, that's all. Food shopping is a serious
> > business IMO, and shouldn't be crammed into one hectic hour on a weekend
> > morning.
>
> You are beginning to sound like a nut to me, too, whereas I thought I knew
> your POV before. You look at those cars and can tell where they came from?
There's a lot of research into what people use their cars for, and the
typical length of trips, reasons for them etc. My comments are based on
these, rather than any particular clairvoyance.
It's a vicious cycle. People have poor public transport options, so they
use their cars more. They use their cars more, the PT gets even worse,
or non-existent.
Tim C.
Helium isn't normally extracted from the atmosphere - there's too little in
it. It's mostly extracted from natural gas, or some rocks.
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
chancellor wrote:
> As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
> thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
> say.
very few things in life can be called necessary. Nearly everything we do -
or at least how and when - is through choice.
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
> I would hate to have to walk to my nearest supermarket, half an hour and
> walk back with my shopping, half an hour back.
I'll get in before David says it: "But you can walk back, so you don't need
a car" ;-)
--
Tim C.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
Tim C.
> Theres nothing "hectic" about my
> supermarket visit on a Saturday,...
Same here, although it used to be as the shops closed at 12 noon until a
few years ago.
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
> Your big problem is you make sweeping generalisations and then justify them
A sort of Anti-Mixi?
(reference to a poster on another group )
--
Tim C.
Tim C.
> Following up to Ophelia
>
>> I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
>> Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
>> fish:))
>
> Nobody is saying you cant survive with just buses, its just a lot harder
> and you lose a lot of time in the process. I think you can only have a
> worthwhile debate about how to improve PT if you start from that point.
Cities like Vienna have a superb PT system. As long as you live more or
less in the town of very close vicinity. Parking and traffic is horrendous
- often worse than central London ime. So there it's worthwhile and can be
a pleasure to use - as long as I do regular small shopping trips.
Other places where the traffic isn't so bad, or PT is slightly less good,
and you live outside the town the car really does become a very attractive
option. if you only live and frequent the area of the PT hubs, then that's
fine. If you have to travel across town it all very quickly becomes much
more time-consuming.
--
Tim C.
Sacha
"Mike......" <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote:
> Following up to Ophelia
>
>> I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
>> Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
>> fish:))
>
> Nobody is saying you cant survive with just buses, its just a lot harder
> and you lose a lot of time in the process. I think you can only have a
> worthwhile debate about how to improve PT if you start from that point.
Actually, you can't survive with just buses. The buses here are a twice a
day service,, leaving only about an hour in Totnes and consequently
under-used. But absurdly, they do not go to Ashburton (the nearest town) at
all from here so if our old neighbour didn't have us or the Dash service to
use, she would have to walk 2.5 miles to the doctor, the chemist, the
library etc. At 91, I think she'd find that a bit of a strain. Sometimes
she takes the bus into Totnes where she banks and gets her pension from the
Post Office and her daughter, who doesn't drive and lives in Teignmouth,
visits her once a week, taking a bus, a train and another bus or a taxi in
bad weather, if I can't go and get her. Once a month, she, too, takes the
bus into Totnes to do her mother's 'big shop' at Somerfield who then
deliver. But they won't deliver unless you pick the stuff out yourself.
We've tried to convince this old lady to use the delivery service from Tesco
or Asda and order with us but she won't because she believes her £60 or so a
month is keeping Somerfield going!
--
Sacha
Mike......
> There's a lot of research into what people use their cars for, and the
> typical length of trips, reasons for them etc. My comments are based on
> these, rather than any particular clairvoyance.
in other words you refuse to listen to anything any of us say. There is a
lot of unnecessary car use, we all know that, the reason this discussion is
stalled is you don't listen to the other side of the argument.
> It's a vicious cycle. People have poor public transport options, so they
> use their cars more. They use their cars more, the PT gets even worse,
> or non-existent.
You think we don't know that? You treat everybody here as stupid.
Mike......
>> Your big problem is you make sweeping generalisations and then justify them
>
> A sort of Anti-Mixi?
> (reference to a poster on another group )
the mind boggles
Mike......
>> As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
>> thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
>> say.
>
> very few things in life can be called necessary. Nearly everything we do -
> or at least how and when - is through choice.
if you have made the choice not to live in a city centre, shopping once a
week is just practical, how many people have got the time to do an hours
journey by bus to the shops every couple of days? But to David its "silly"
Mike......
> Cities like Vienna have a superb PT system. As long as you live more or
> less in the town of very close vicinity. Parking and traffic is horrendous
> - often worse than central London ime. So there it's worthwhile and can be
> a pleasure to use - as long as I do regular small shopping trips.
Sure, if I lived in say, Soho, I would probably walk to Selfridges or
somewhere on a daily basis
> Other places where the traffic isn't so bad, or PT is slightly less good,
> and you live outside the town the car really does become a very attractive
> option. if you only live and frequent the area of the PT hubs, then that's
> fine. If you have to travel across town it all very quickly becomes much
> more time-consuming.
I prefer Waitrose, which is about 5 miles away, but I can get to Central
London quicker by PT and whatever David fantasizes, carrying the stuff back
is a real pain.
Mike......
> Actually, you can't survive with just buses. The buses here are a twice a
> day service,, leaving only about an hour in Totnes and consequently
> under-used.
and my experience is that while buses have got worse as a result of car
ownership, they were never that great in rural areas, people just didn't
travel that much. There were probably more local shops, but probably not
offering much choice. Rural based hobbies like hillwalking were at first
practised by the idle rich and a few vicars, then trains enabled more
people to do it in a few locations, then with cars people could get to all
the hills.
Sacha
"Mike......" <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote:
And crucial to the point, while people walked or cycled to visit friends
etc., all the shops delivered, often on a daily basis but at least twice a
week.
--
Sacha
Tim C.
> It is trapped under some rocks.
The ones that have also trapped natural gas under them? :-)
--
Tim C.
Mike......
> Rural based hobbies like hillwalking were at first
>> practised by the idle rich and a few vicars, then trains enabled more
>> people to do it in a few locations, then with cars people could get to all
>> the hills.
>
> And crucial to the point, while people walked or cycled to visit friends
> etc., all the shops delivered, often on a daily basis but at least twice a
> week.
the world has changed, we all travel distances to work and play, we have
friends far away, shops are further away, (deliveries of course are coming
back into fashion now).
Personal transport has changed everything, mostly for the better. Its
become fashionable to ignore the flexible mobility given by the car and
only mention the downsides.
Ophelia
extracted from natural gas, or some rocks.
>
Hi Martin:)) Welcome:))
CP
(*)) wrote:
> There's a lot of research into what people use their cars for, and the
> typical length of trips, reasons for them etc. My comments are based on
> these, rather than any particular clairvoyance.
>
> It's a vicious cycle. People have poor public transport options, so they
> use their cars more. They use their cars more, the PT gets even worse,
> or non-existent.
With you totally on this. We live a mile and a half away from our
nearest Sainsbury's and I buy most of what we need on a more or less
daily basis: I use the walk as exercise, thus achieving fitness and
avoiding care use in one fell swoop. If we need to bulk buy anything,
we take the car, but it's not a weekly occurrence.
And you're quite right: the more we use cars, the worse public
transport gets. The same is happening with telecommunications: the
more people rely on the ubiquitous mobile, the less need there is for
the humble phone box. Soon, the iconic red structure will be but a
memory.
Sacha
5cd9f6eb-981b-4c2b...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com, "CP"
<colinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Just like the sedan chair or the crossing sweeper. Or indeed, the London
bus.
--
Sacha
CP
> Just like the sedan chair or the crossing sweeper. Or indeed, the London
> bus.
Can't say I remember the sedan chair, but I certainly do miss the
London bus.
Maybe I have a jaundiced view, living in Durham as I do, where
everything is within walking distance.
Sacha
d8e54fac-2986-4a71...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com, "CP"
<colinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It's just an entirely different way of life. In the long long ago when I
lived in London, I went to a market behind Oxford Street, off Soho somewhere
- can't remember the name. I used to go about 3 times a week and buy
everything in the way of food that I and my flatmates needed. As none of us
cooked much and were out a lot in the evenings, this didn't amount to 'heavy
shopping' and I carted it home on the tube. But for people who live in
rural areas and who aren't within reasonable walking distance of shops, or
do not pass them on their way to or from work, the car is an essential.
It's either that or back to delivery vans - please! - or pony and trap. I
don't fancy reversing one of those in these lanes.
--
Sacha
CP
But for people who live in
> >rural areas and who aren't within reasonable walking distance of shops, or
> do not pass them on their way to or from work, the car is an essential.
> It's either that or back to delivery vans - please! - or pony and trap. I
> don't fancy reversing one of those in these lanes.
In an ideal world, car use would be rationed in accordance with need -
namely the kind of need you mentioned, which is dictated either by
geographical circumstance or physical disability.
Mike......
> but I certainly do miss the
> London bus.
go to the stop earlier?
> Maybe I have a jaundiced view, living in Durham as I do, where
> everything is within walking distance.
I dont think anybody here thinks driving very short distances is a good
idea, at least nobody has said that. People do it of course
.--
Ophelia
oh come on, sit down, 'aveanarsecuppatea!
Ophelia
Exactly:) You are just spoiled!
Sacha
f144461b-c335-4392...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, "CP"
<colinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
People have been raising that sort of point with regard to the cost of fuel
- country dweller versus town dweller, lorry driver versus 'Aunty Edna out
for a Sunday jolly' type of thing. It's extremely valid IMO but I bet
nobody in govt. will take any notice of it.
--
Sacha
Ophelia
But this just shows the fence you and David are behind, neither of you
drives!!
I bet you would soon drive if you lived in the middle of nowhere. And come
on 'fess up! Your good lady drives you around often... doesn't she...
hmmm.. doesn't she though??
CP
> People have been raising that sort of point with regard to the cost of fuel
> - country dweller versus town dweller, lorry driver versus 'Aunty Edna out
> for a Sunday jolly' type of thing. It's extremely valid IMO but I bet
> nobody in govt. will take any notice of it.
Of course they won't: common sense is involved, so why would they even
begin to consider it?
Another thing that drives me potty is the adverts which encourage two-
and three-car households by promising insurance discount. Instead of
rewarding people for having two or three cars parked outside their
houses, they should be putting draconically punitive measures in
place. We live in a cul-de-sac on a private estate, and trying to
drive a car from one end of the street to the other is like navigating
one's way blindfold through an obstacle course.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
> CP wrote:
> > On May 16, 5:22 pm, Sacha <sa...@nowhere.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > But for people who live in
> >>> rural areas and who aren't within reasonable walking distance of
> >>> shops, or
> >> do not pass them on their way to or from work, the car is an
> >> essential. It's either that or back to delivery vans - please! - or
> >> pony and trap. I don't fancy reversing one of those in these lanes.
> >
> > In an ideal world, car use would be rationed in accordance with need -
> > namely the kind of need you mentioned, which is dictated either by
> > geographical circumstance or physical disability.
>
> But this just shows the fence you and David are behind, neither of you
> drives!!
>
> I bet you would soon drive if you lived in the middle of nowhere.
I probably would, but I don't live in the middle of nowhere, like the
large majority of the UK population. 80% of people live in urban areas.
Of the rest, over half live in towns, then the rest mostly in villages.
Very few people actually live in isloated dwellings- around 1% IIRC.
It's the 80% living in urban areas I care the most about in terms of
getting them on PT, because that's where it's most viable. The problem
where I live is getting people to consider a 10-15 minute walk to the
supermarket reasonable...
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins
CP
(*)) wrote:
> Ophelia <Ophe...@nix.co.uk> wrote:
> > But this just shows the fence you and David are behind, neither of you
> > drives!!
>
> > I bet you would soon drive if you lived in the middle of nowhere.
>
> I probably would, but I don't live in the middle of nowhere, like the
> large majority of the UK population. 80% of people live in urban areas.
> Of the rest, over half live in towns, then the rest mostly in villages.
> Very few people actually live in isloated dwellings- around 1% IIRC.
> It's the 80% living in urban areas I care the most about in terms of
> getting them on PT, because that's where it's most viable. The problem
> where I live is getting people to consider a 10-15 minute walk to the
> supermarket reasonable...
I agree completely. I have nothing against the use of cars in isolated
rural areas: it's the senseless use of the automobile in situations
where walking would be more suitable - and more conducive to the
promotion of good health - that annoys me.
CP
> But this just shows the fence you and David are behind, neither of you
> drives!!
>
> I bet you would soon drive if you lived in the middle of nowhere. And come
> on 'fess up! Your good lady drives you around often... doesn't she...
> hmmm.. doesn't she though??
She drives us away for weekends, and occasionally for a bulk buy at
Sainsbury's, but never to work - a place to and from which I always
walk.
Ophelia
True!
Ophelia
>> I bet you would soon drive if you lived in the middle of nowhere.
>
> I probably would, but I don't live in the middle of nowhere, like the
> large majority of the UK population. 80% of people live in urban
> areas. Of the rest, over half live in towns, then the rest mostly in
> villages. Very few people actually live in isloated dwellings- around
> 1% IIRC. It's the 80% living in urban areas I care the most about in
> terms of getting them on PT, because that's where it's most viable.
> The problem where I live is getting people to consider a 10-15 minute
> walk to the supermarket reasonable...
Not everyone is free to choose where they live. As for the rest, I am fee
to choose how I shop and where.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)
Dave
> "Dave" <dave...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:98mdnVpnVP5oWrHV...@bt.com...
>
>>Christina Websell wrote:
>>
>>Big snip
>>
>>
>>>OTOH, I redeem myself in other ways. My waste to landfill is almost
>>>nothing. I compost almost everything tea bags,vac cleaner fluff. veg
>>>peelings go to the chickens, eggs shells are baked, crushed up and fed
>>>back to them as a calcium source with their grit.
>>
>>How do you do that? I hope you do it in a green way, the egg shells I
>>mean ;-)
>
>
> How do I bake my eggshells do you mean? Why, I put them in a basin on top
> of my woodburner when it is on, of course and leave them there for a day or
> two.
> Perfick ;-)
That's interesting, I used to put them into my wormery and let the
little blighters digest them.
Dave
Dave
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1ih0dws.1kjxnnc1t684k3N%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
>
>>Christina Websell <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:1ih0c9d.egqjnq756imeN%d4g...@yahoo.co.uk...
>>>
>>>>Christina Websell <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[]
>>>>
>>>>>No. It really does depend on lifestyle and how close you are to
>>>>>amenities
>>>>>and transport. I can hardly carry 3 x 20 kilo bags of chicken food on
>>>>>my
>>>>>back from the farm I get it from (even if there was a bus there and
>>>>>back,
>>>>>which there isn't.)
>>>>
>>>>Most of the people clogging the car parks at the Sainsbury's near me
>>>>aren't carring 3 massive bags of chicken food. They're usually doing
>>>>similar shopping to me, and coming from similar distances. It's just
>>>>that they have a car, and many of them probably can't conceive of not
>>>>using it for such a task as food shopping.
>>>
>>>I do agree that you should walk if you can. But how to get it over?
>>
>>With difficulty. I think that everything points to us becoming generally
>>lazier.
>>
>>
>>>>When possible, people should try to walk to the shops, and buy less
>>>>junk. It's not just the weight of the shopping that's the problem, it's
>>>>often the packaging as well. As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
>>>>thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
>>>>say. It's a choice they make, that's all.
>>>
>>>Packaging is up to the manufacturers.
>>
>>Not quite. It's up to us as well, especially by refusing to use
>>packaging, discarding it _in_ the shops, and complaining.
>>
>>
>>>If I had 4 or more children,
>>
>>Most people don't.
>>
>>
>>>I might have to shop once a week. Once again
>>>you are assuming that what fits you fits all.
>>
>>No, never once do I assume that. That's just a canard.
>>
>>
>
> But you do, David. You live in a city centre. You can walk to everything
> you need and you don't have a large family. You frequently castigate
> people who use cars because you don't need to. It's unfair.
> I would hate to have to walk to my nearest supermarket, half an hour and
> walk back with my shopping, half an hour back.
> I tried to get to work once on the bus. Apart from having to walk nearly a
> mile to a bus stop, I needed two buses and they did not connect. It took me
> 2 and a half hours to get there. It takes me 45 minutes in the car.
As my old boss used to say, 'He'll be OK when he is 5'.
Dave
Dave
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 01:44:42 +0100, Christina Websell wrote:
>
>
>>I would hate to have to walk to my nearest supermarket, half an hour and
>>walk back with my shopping, half an hour back.
>
>
> I'll get in before David says it: "But you can walk back, so you don't need
> a car" ;-)
I take it that you have never had to wear wellies, waterproof trousers
and a sou'wester for up to 2 hours and come out of it smelling of roses?
Dave
Dave
Since you have used the word automobile, should we not invite our USA
friends into this argument and see what they have to say?
Same problem, different country. I'll bet that they will come down very
heavily on the side of car usage.
Dave
Dave
> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>>"Mike...." <mikeysc...@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:kqmvrt3c4rri.1b...@40tude.net...
>>
>>>Following up to Christina Websell
>>>
>>>
>>>>Some people seem to think that their circumstances apply to
>>>>everyone.
>>>
>>>I think thats a very good point in this argument.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Myself, I have to walk nearly a mile to the nearest bus stop and it
>>>>won't take me to work.
>>>
>>>I think my nearest bus stop is slightly less than that, I wonder if
>>>they are happy with you getting on with assorted agricultural tools
>>>and lawnmowers, assuming I could find a way of carrying them, then
>>>of course it
>
> takes an hour instead of 10 minutes, hardly surprising I use the
>
>>>car, is it?
>
>
> I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
> Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
> fish:))
My wife lived and went to school in Malta for 3 or 4 years and she loved
those busses. When we visited the island after we were married, I too
fell in love with the place and those busses. You have just prompted me
to get a passport and take another trip out there. My last visit was
branded on my mind and I still remember the people that live there, so
friendly :-)
Dave
Dave
> Following up to Ophelia
>
>
>>I used to live in Malta and the buses there are used for everything:)
>>Depending out the route, you could be sharing with a tin bath full of
>>fish:))
>
>
> Nobody is saying you cant survive with just buses, its just a lot harder
> and you lose a lot of time in the process. I think you can only have a
> worthwhile debate about how to improve PT if you start from that point.
I found out yesterday, that Manchester has a circular bus around the
city that is free, but I don't know if it is inner or outer circle.
Dave
Dave
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 00:42:26 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.ukDavid Horne, _the_
> chancellor wrote:
>
>
>>As I've said before, the 'weekly shop'
>>thing is a bit silly anyway. It's not necessary, despite what people
>>say.
>
>
> very few things in life can be called necessary. Nearly everything we do -
> or at least how and when - is through choice.
That is like the modern expression of 'I need to do this, that, or the
other'. Instead of saying 'I want to do'.
Dave
Ophelia
> My wife lived and went to school in Malta for 3 or 4 years and she
> loved those busses.
Oh:) where did she live??? I was in Zabbar Road in Paola:)
My eldest son was born in Mtarfa and went to school in Vittoriosa :)
When we visited the island after we were married,
> I too fell in love with the place and those busses. You have just
> prompted me to get a passport and take another trip out there. My
> last visit was branded on my mind and I still remember the people
> that live there, so friendly :-)
They are indeed. I still have friends there:)