Re: OT: Ping Judith

[Tim C.]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 03:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
<news:5787d2a4-8b33-4349...@o9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com> :

> X-No-Archive:Yes
> On Apr 9, 9:54�am, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> BBC, UK Commercial TV and Sky are being moved to satellite Astra 2F.
>> There's a chance that you will only be able to receive Sky when the
>> move is completed sometime this summer.http://www.astra2.org/astra2f-maps.html
>> --
>>
>> Martin in Zuid Holland
>
> Hi Martin, thanks for this, I've sent a copy of it to my husband
> upstairs on his computer, he will understand it, as you know I don't!
>
> It's very quiet in here, have I missed something, did something
> happen, someone walloped someone with a wet fish which wasn't fish at
> all?

Not that I noticed.
Monty Python's fish slapping dance?

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:0l4dm8lknc5kvu1f2...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 03:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> <judith...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>X-No-Archive:Yes

>>On Apr 9, 9:54 am, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>> BBC, UK Commercial TV and Sky are being moved to satellite Astra 2F.
>>> There's a chance that you will only be able to receive Sky when the
>>> move is completed sometime this
>>> summer.http://www.astra2.org/astra2f-maps.html
>

>>Hi Martin, thanks for this, I've sent a copy of it to my husband
>>upstairs on his computer, he will understand it, as you know I don't!
>

> It looks like that yet again an attempt to stop people outside UK
> watching UK TV has failed. Friends near Nice still watch UK satellite
> TV using a 60 cm dish. The transfer of channels to Astra 2F has been
> in progress since the beginning of January and is supposed to be
> complete by the summer. UK TV channels should have been disappearing
> from mainland Europe TV screens but haven't. Maybe they have been more
> successful with upsetting British expats in Spain. Maybe Mike can take
> a look the next time he is in Spain.
> Tim might be able to get UK Freesat in Austria with a 1 metre dish or
> smaller.
> The footprint is here
> http://www.astra2.org/images/astra2f/astra2f-experimental.jpg
>
> Note that in Nice both with the old satellite Astra 2C and its
> replacement Astra 2F a one metre dish was supposed to be necessary.
> 60cm is/was enough.

They are trying to do something similar here. If I try to rewatch something
it asks my post code. If I put in my own it refuses me, so I put in one
from England and it lets me in:)
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[S Viemeister]

On 4/11/2013 7:14 AM, Ophelia wrote:

> They are trying to do something similar here. If I try to rewatch
> something it asks my post code. If I put in my own it refuses me, so I
> put in one from England and it lets me in:)

Not just me, then! I put in my own code, was refused, then put in my
uncle's code (he lives in Richmond). It worked!

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Judith in France

>It's very quiet in here, have I missed something, did something
>happen,

its all Thatchers fault, she went and died so we can't blame her
(doh!). More seriously, is it the time of year? My chess is very quiet
too. Spring cleaning maybe?
--
Mike... . . . .

[S Viemeister]

On 4/11/2013 9:06 AM, Martin wrote:

> Richmond, Yorkshire? :-)
>
London.

[graham]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote in message
news:kk6601$528$5...@dont-email.me...

I sometimes listen to Classic FM over my laptop connected to a stereo
system. Their computer recognizes a non-UK address and asks me for my postal
code so I use one from Suffolk and that makes it happy. I don't have the
same problem with the BBC Radio 3 nor several French channels.
Graham

[Ophelia]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:asnkpu...@mid.individual.net...

Yep:) Do you mean Richmond in Yorkshire? Mine is in Ripon:)

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[Ophelia]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message

news:asnr6m...@mid.individual.net...

Ahh, ok.. I just asked that one:)


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[Ophelia]

"graham" <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:lTy9t.196847$m21....@newsfe02.iad...

heh easily foiled:) I wonder how long it will take them to cotton on:) You
would think Scotland would be allowed though.
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[S Viemeister]

On 4/11/2013 9:46 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "graham" <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote
>> "Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote

>>> They are trying to do something similar here. If I try to rewatch
>>> something it asks my post code. If I put in my own it refuses me, so
>>> I put in one from England and it lets me in:)
>>>

>> I sometimes listen to Classic FM over my laptop connected to a stereo
>> system. Their computer recognizes a non-UK address and asks me for my
>> postal code so I use one from Suffolk and that makes it happy. I don't
>> have the same problem with the BBC Radio 3 nor several French channels.
>
> heh easily foiled:) I wonder how long it will take them to cotton on:)
> You would think Scotland would be allowed though.

Perhaps the broadcasters are not aware that the referendum hasn't
happened yet...

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by S Viemeister

>> heh easily foiled:) I wonder how long it will take them to cotton on:)
>> You would think Scotland would be allowed though.
>
>Perhaps the broadcasters are not aware that the referendum hasn't
>happened yet...

There would be hundreds of organisations that are called British that
need a new word excluding Scotland, or would "British" come to mean
England, Wales & NI, I suppose it would? Would the BBC stop
broadcasting to Scotland? I assume so. I'm sure the new SBC would be
able to come up replacements for QI, HIGNFY and so on.. In the
meantime I suppose a McDave channel could make a killing with the
repeats?

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ekgdm8577bt9g59tn...@4ax.com...

They have already discussed having only Scottish TV with other areas
programmes to be decided as and when.
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:q7ldm81r8ot1gfg20...@4ax.com...

> Did you see the programme comparing the effect of closure of the
> railway to Ripon with Ilkley where the railway survived Beeching. The
> effect is staggering.

No?
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[Phil Cook]

Here's some UK postcodes for you to use:

SW1P 1AA - Royal Mail SW1 callers office
SW1A 0AA - House of Commons
SW1A 0PW - House of Lords, Palace of Westminster
SW1A 1AA - Buckingham Palace
SW1A 2AA - 10 Downing Street
SW1A 2AB - 11 Downing Street
SW1A 2AH - Foreign and Commonwealth Office
SW1A 2HQ - HM Treasury

--
Phil Cook

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> There would be hundreds of organisations that are called British that
>> need a new word excluding Scotland, or would "British" come to mean
>> England, Wales & NI, I suppose it would? Would the BBC stop
>> broadcasting to Scotland? I assume so. I'm sure the new SBC would be
>> able to come up replacements for QI, HIGNFY and so on.. In the
>> meantime I suppose a McDave channel could make a killing with the
>> repeats?
>
>They have already discussed having only Scottish TV with other areas
>programmes to be decided as and when.

sorry, don't quite follow. "Scottish TV" I understand. Presumably they
might well buy into anything from Fox news to the BBC.

"with other areas programmes to be decided as and when."

what does that mean?

Do you have any idea if "British" would become a word inapplicable to
Scotland?

[Ophelia]

"Phil Cook" <ph...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aso4fo...@mid.individual.net...

lol using those ought to be interesting!
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[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:75ndm8drknoq282k3...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>
>>> There would be hundreds of organisations that are called British that
>>> need a new word excluding Scotland, or would "British" come to mean
>>> England, Wales & NI, I suppose it would? Would the BBC stop
>>> broadcasting to Scotland? I assume so. I'm sure the new SBC would be
>>> able to come up replacements for QI, HIGNFY and so on.. In the
>>> meantime I suppose a McDave channel could make a killing with the
>>> repeats?
>>
>>They have already discussed having only Scottish TV with other areas
>>programmes to be decided as and when.
>
> sorry, don't quite follow. "Scottish TV" I understand. Presumably they
> might well buy into anything from Fox news to the BBC.
>
> "with other areas programmes to be decided as and when."
>
> what does that mean?

As and when the ptb decide.

> Do you have any idea if "British" would become a word inapplicable to
> Scotland?

I have no idea. I see bits in the local papers and that is all. I am sure
someone will be in soon to tell us it ALL <g> There were some complaints
about the possibility of not getting soaps/series that many people like to
follow.
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[S Viemeister]

I'm saving that list!

[Ophelia]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message

news:aso7mi...@mid.individual.net...

lol I double dare ya:)

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[allegoricus]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:14:46 +0100, Mike.. . . .
<junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There would be hundreds of organisations that are called British that
>need a new word excluding Scotland, or would "British" come to mean

>England, Wales & NI, I suppose it would? ----------------8><

I'm not sure that 'British' includes NI, after all it's the United
Kingdom of Great Britain _and_ Northern Ireland.

--
Peter

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by allegoricus

>> There would be hundreds of organisations that are called British that
>>need a new word excluding Scotland, or would "British" come to mean
>>England, Wales & NI, I suppose it would? ----------------8><
>
>I'm not sure that 'British' includes NI, after all it's the United
>Kingdom of Great Britain _and_ Northern Ireland.

Indeed it is! Geographically we are all in the British isles,
including Eire, but the political union that is the UK includes GB+NI.
I don't think anybody in Eire calls themselves British anymore than
anybody in Scotland calls themselves English. I assume being "British"
is a delicate issue in NI.
AIUI Scotland would be a new state that had succeeded from the UK, the
UK's treaties would remain in force as before, Scotland would have to
make new treaties and apply to join things like the EU*.

the BBC is only the tip of the iceberg of course, the fiscal/banking
systems are more significant. Not to mention not having a currency. I
assume the remaining UK would be nice enough to let these newly cross
border arrangements to continue, although control of them would become
purely a UK prerogative. I would expect to look forward to the various
perks (bribes?) currently only affordable to local parliaments to
become affordable in England (or corresponding lower taxes).

The things that make UK still of some minor significance on the world
stage (a nuclear power etc) would not of course accrue to Scotland.
They could have some tough treaty negotiations.

* they would not inherit our budget rebate or opt outs.

[Judith in France]

On Apr 11, 11:35 am, "Tim C." <spamt...@tele2.at> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 03:08:36 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote in post :
> <news:5787d2a4-8b33-4349...@o9g2000vbk.googlegroups.com> :

>
> > X-No-Archive:Yes
> > On Apr 9, 9:54 am, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> >> BBC, UK Commercial TV and Sky are being moved to satellite Astra 2F.
> >> There's a chance that you will only be able to receive Sky when the
> >> move is completed sometime this summer.http://www.astra2.org/astra2f-maps.html

> >> --
>
> >> Martin in Zuid Holland

>
> > Hi Martin, thanks for this, I've sent a copy of it to my husband
> > upstairs on his computer, he will understand it, as you know I don't!
>

> > It's very quiet in here, have I missed something, did something

> > happen, someone walloped someone with a wet fish which wasn't fish at
> > all?
>
> Not that I noticed.
> Monty Python's fish slapping dance?
>
> --
> Tim C. Linz, Austria.

:-)

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s9dfm8hofs80tmao3...@4ax.com...

Just the other day it was announced that the Independent Scotland would keep
the pound and the Bank of England would always bail them out. Of course the
BoE would have no say in Scots finances ...

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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>Just the other day it was announced that the Independent Scotland would keep
>the pound and the Bank of England would always bail them out. Of course the
>BoE would have no say in Scots finances ...

Who announced that? Why would England bail out Scotland with no say in
its finances any more than we would bail out Iceland? I find that very
hard to believe?

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Mike.. . . .

>Who announced that? Why would England bail out Scotland with no say in
>its finances any more than we would bail out Iceland? I find that very
>hard to believe?

"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306651/Scotland-expects-Bank-England-bail-split-UK.html?ito=feeds-newsxml"

Scottish Nationalists are insisting they ***want*** to keep the pound
as their currency and retain the Bank of England as the �lender of
last resort�.
But an influential committee of peers has warned it would be
�implausible� for the Bank to accept risks over which it had no
control.

Its a "want", some way from a "have".

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22006400"
"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9789697/English-taxpayers-forced-to-bail-out-independent-Scotlands-banks.html"

lots of "could's" and "might's", I suspect the reality is it would be
a political impassability for an English/welsh PM outside of
situations where it suited UK..

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:l0nfm8laua7e580k0...@4ax.com...

lol do you really think anyone else believes it??? Anyway here he is:

Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth

John Swinney MSP

Responsibilities include: Economy, Employment, Scottish Budget,
Budgetary Monitoring, Public Sector Pay Policy, Pensions Agency (SPPA),
Public Service Reform and Delivery, Efficient Government,
Simplification
of the Public Sector Landscape/Public Bodies/Scrutiny, Community
Planning/Business Improvement Districts, Community Business and
Co-operative
Development, Third Sector and Social Economy, Relocation.

You think this is madness? You don't know the half of it!!!

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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> Who announced that? Why would England bail out Scotland with no say in
>> its finances any more than we would bail out Iceland? I find that very
>> hard to believe?
>
>lol do you really think anyone else believes it???

Ahhh, I see. I'm sure a lot of people who *want* to will.

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:n5nfm8lrlfodu1a0d...@4ax.com...

These are the people who say that England would keep all the debt and
Scotland take all the assets plus a share of England's assets. They also
said that they would be able to join the EU with no difference in terms that
the UK has now. Salmond even told us he'd had legal advice. Turned out in
the end he had to admit he had been lying about that. Oh I could go on but
there is not point. I think you get the jist!
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[allegoricus]

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 09:24:28 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>British does, but Great Britain doesn't include NI.

Sorry, I'm thinking politically rather than geographically.

--
Peter

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>You think this is madness? You don't know the half of it!!!

IIRC union took place because a bail out was needed.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_Scheme"

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:vrnfm81r1r9nlokij...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>
>>> Who announced that? Why would England bail out Scotland with no say in
>>> its finances any more than we would bail out Iceland? I find that very
>>> hard to believe?
>>
>>lol do you really think anyone else believes it???
>
> Ahhh, I see. I'm sure a lot of people who *want* to will.

Unfortunately you could be right:(
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[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:r2ofm8lboirt59ihr...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>
>>You think this is madness? You don't know the half of it!!!
>
> IIRC union took place because a bail out was needed.
>
> "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_Scheme"

*rolls eyes* you wouldn't think so to hear some of them:(

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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> lots of "could's" and "might's", I suspect the reality is it would be
>> a political impassability for an English/welsh PM outside of
>> situations where it suited UK..
>
>These are the people who say that England would keep all the debt and
>Scotland take all the assets plus a share of England's assets. They also
>said that they would be able to join the EU with no difference in terms that
>the UK has now. Salmond even told us he'd had legal advice. Turned out in
>the end he had to admit he had been lying about that. Oh I could go on but
>there is not point. I think you get the jist!

sounds like the referendum will be won or lost on wishful thinking or
lack of it!

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Martin

>All politicians are the same?

Putin, Mandela, Berlesconi, Thatcher, Heath, Wedgewood Benn?

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:c8pfm8do10t6t8rbh...@4ax.com...

They are giving the vote to 16 year olds ... just saying ...
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:j3rfm8dfg9i0oi863...@4ax.com...

> Did you ever watch PM's Question Time? :)

Not for ages, why do you ask? I am not a fan of our illustrious prime
minister.



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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> sounds like the referendum will be won or lost on wishful thinking or
>> lack of it!
>
>They are giving the vote to 16 year olds ... just saying ...

whose grasp of the issues is "braveheart"?

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:sp4gm8t81uofo0lsk...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>
>>> sounds like the referendum will be won or lost on wishful thinking or
>>> lack of it!
>>
>>They are giving the vote to 16 year olds ... just saying ...
>
> whose grasp of the issues is "braveheart"?

It doesn't take you long to cotton on eh?
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:517gm8tt7aietndql...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:48:31 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

> It is collective madness.

In which case I leave it to you:))
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:mh8gm81gfj5t36ev1...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:39:57 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

> Some weeks it is the most entertaining thing on TV.

I think I'll just go and scrub the loo instead.
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[S Viemeister]

On 4/12/2013 11:29 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

>> Some weeks it is the most entertaining thing on TV.
>
> I think I'll just go and scrub the loo instead.

Much more productive than all that schoolboyish noise.

[Ophelia]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:asqorq...@mid.individual.net...

Indeed!

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[graham]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku> wrote in message
news:asqhlf...@mid.individual.net...

From my experience, elections are a popularity contest and judging by the
way the wrinklies vote without thinking, giving the vote to 12 year olds
wouldn't make any difference.
Graham

[Ophelia]

"graham" <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:KRY9t.16161$zS5....@newsfe16.iad...

<sigh> you could be right.

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[Janet]

In article <KRY9t.16161$zS5....@newsfe16.iad>, g.st...@shaw.ca says...

>
> > They are giving the vote to 16 year olds ... just saying ...
> > --
> From my experience, elections are a popularity contest

It's not an election, there are no candidates. It's a yes/no
referendum.


Janet

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Janet

>> From my experience, elections are a popularity contest
>
> It's not an election, there are no candidates. It's a yes/no
>referendum.

that's true, but the popularity of the leaders of "yes" and "no"
campaigns will have a considerable effect even when, technically, its
impersonal. As does the wording of the question.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by S Viemeister

>>> Some weeks it is the most entertaining thing on TV.
>>
>> I think I'll just go and scrub the loo instead.
>
>Much more productive than all that schoolboyish noise.

how not to establish the facts, but suited to the training of old
Etonian men. Speeches, shouting down, oratory. Logical debate? Nah.

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:nvpgm812itfkejfdt...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by Janet
>
>>> From my experience, elections are a popularity contest
>>
>> It's not an election, there are no candidates. It's a yes/no
>>referendum.
>
> that's true, but the popularity of the leaders of "yes" and "no"
> campaigns will have a considerable effect even when, technically, its
> impersonal. As does the wording of the question.

'Do you agree that Scotland should be independent' Or something very
similar. How loaded is that?
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[graham]

"Janet" <h...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2bd272abf...@News.Individual.NET...

I was commenting on the voting age.

[graham]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:nvpgm812itfkejfdt...@4ax.com...

Emotions play too big a part. Hence, a popular leader can make a
difference.

[Janet]

In article <p%Z9t.469901$LX2....@newsfe31.iad>, g.st...@shaw.ca
says...

In Scotland the franchise age is 18.
16 year olds do not vote in elections.

16 yr olds in Scotland will have a yes/no vote in the referendum
because it's their longterm future at stake.

Janet

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> that's true, but the popularity of the leaders of "yes" and "no"
>> campaigns will have a considerable effect even when, technically, its
>> impersonal. As does the wording of the question.
>
>'Do you agree that Scotland should be independent' Or something very
>similar. How loaded is that?

I don't think it is, but a question can be.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Martin

>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"

contrast with

should scotland abandon the UK

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Janet

> In Scotland the franchise age is 18.
>16 year olds do not vote in elections.
>
> 16 yr olds in Scotland will have a yes/no vote in the referendum
>because it's their longterm future at stake.

why not 12 then? 16 year olds will also feel the effect of a general
election.
There's only one honest test, are they old enough to understand the
issues.

[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:741im89dkj91sdrd2...@4ax.com...

> Your version is very loaded. The reality is nowhere near as loaded as
> you think, the question is

>
> "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

He has changed it then because he was initially talking about it.
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[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3t3im81uhmcc1b0tr...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by Martin
>
>>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>
> contrast with
>
> should scotland abandon the UK

Intially he had a whole bunch of questions he wanted to ask. What is wrong
with an in/out question?
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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Mike.. . . .

>>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"

(the people who study these things say there is an advantage for the
positive question)

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> should scotland abandon the UK
>
>Intially he had a whole bunch of questions he wanted to ask. What is wrong
>with an in/out question?

Its not as simple as it might seem. The responses you get are
different depending on what you ask. If you have an option for more
independence and an option for total independence you get different
results. The two sides will be battling to get the question(s) in the
form that suits them.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>
>He has changed it then because he was initially talking about it.

that is quite loaded, as independence sounds naturally like a good
thing anybody would want.
Imagine if it were:-
"should Scotland be free?"
or
"is Scotland safest as part of the United Kingdom?"

some of those 16 year olds would probably answer "yes" to both.

[Ophelia]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku> wrote in message

news:assi7o...@mid.individual.net...

>
>
> "Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3t3im81uhmcc1b0tr...@4ax.com...
>> Following a post by Martin
>>
>>>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>>
>> contrast with
>>
>> should scotland abandon the UK
>
> Intially he had a whole bunch of questions he wanted to ask. What is
> wrong with an in/out question?

Just to add, I am more interested in what is best for Scotland, not hopeful
'President' Salmond who will twist and turn to get what he wants.
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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Janet

> 16 yr olds in Scotland will have a yes/no vote in the referendum
>because it's their longterm future at stake.

if that were the test the vote should go also to unborn foetuses and
be removed from the terminally ill

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Martin

>Neither of us are not Scottish

we should let Martin decide the wording :-)

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:su8im8dd2c9en4h8u...@4ax.com...

I know which is why he was pinned down to only one question. I was
surprised he got away with the question he did.
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:dc9im816b5b0alumq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:09:01 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:741im89dkj91sdrd2...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 21:11:59 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:nvpgm812itfkejfdt...@4ax.com...
>>>>> Following a post by Janet
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From my experience, elections are a popularity contest
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not an election, there are no candidates. It's a yes/no
>>>>>>referendum.
>>>>>
>>>>> that's true, but the popularity of the leaders of "yes" and "no"
>>>>> campaigns will have a considerable effect even when, technically, its
>>>>> impersonal. As does the wording of the question.
>>>>
>>>>'Do you agree that Scotland should be independent' Or something very
>>>>similar. How loaded is that?
>>>
>>> Your version is very loaded. The reality is nowhere near as loaded as
>>> you think, the question is
>>>
>>> "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>>
>>He has changed it then because he was initially talking about it.
>

> It has been that ever since the referendum was officially announced.

You don't get the local papers. Mostly I get my info from them because I am
not interested in hearing about Salmond's ambitions.
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:t8aim89kl926ej9gh...@4ax.com...

> Do you know any politician who does doesn't do that?
>
> Neither of us are not Scottish, let them decide what they want.

Well since I live here ... You don't have to live with the decision ... *WE*
do!

(I suspect you meant ... neither of us ARE ...)
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[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ggaim8tn8aft22i1v...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by Martin
>
>>Neither of us are not Scottish
>
> we should let Martin decide the wording :-)

Aye! Let us do that!
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[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>Well since I live here ... You don't have to live with the decision ... *WE*
>do!

it will effect all of UK, if Scotland drops out both countries will be
weaker.

[Ophelia]

"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:e6dim89ptt2en7isf...@4ax.com...

> Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>
>>Well since I live here ... You don't have to live with the decision ...
>>*WE*
>>do!
>
> it will effect all of UK, if Scotland drops out both countries will be
> weaker.

I know, but that isn't what he was saying. He was, in effect telling me to
keep my nose out because I am not Scottish.
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:61gim81apbn9v1cq4...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:29:25 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

> You should get Dutch local papers like me. They never mention Salmond
> :-)

Lucky you!
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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:54gim894gls33dhe6...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:31:26 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:t8aim89kl926ej9gh...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:35:07 +0100, "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku> wrote in message
>>>>news:assi7o...@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:3t3im81uhmcc1b0tr...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Following a post by Martin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> contrast with
>>>>>>
>>>>>> should scotland abandon the UK
>>>>>
>>>>> Intially he had a whole bunch of questions he wanted to ask. What is
>>>>> wrong with an in/out question?
>>>>
>>>>Just to add, I am more interested in what is best for Scotland, not
>>>>hopeful
>>>>'President' Salmond who will twist and turn to get what he wants.
>>>
>>> Do you know any politician who does doesn't do that?
>>>
>>> Neither of us are not Scottish, let them decide what they want.
>>
>>Well since I live here ... You don't have to live with the decision ...
>>*WE*
>>do!
>

> Yesterday you lived in Ripon make up your mind. :-)

We 'live' in a lot of places because of work, but home is Scotland and that
is where we pay our taxes, for two places too!

>>(I suspect you meant ... neither of us ARE ...)
>

> Quite possibly :-)

Except that should be 'neither of us is' ...
> Martin in Zuid Holland
>
>

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[Ophelia]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:b7gim89jkrtvjfdr9...@4ax.com...

> I'm surprised that you didn't know what the question was. :-)
>
> Exactly what is wrong with the question? Do you have a better
> alternative?

I don't actually care so long as we don't get independence.

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[Janet]

In article <ggaim8tn8aft22i1v...@4ax.com>,
junkfo...@gmail.com says...

>
> Following a post by Martin
>
> >Neither of us are not Scottish
>
> we should let Martin decide the wording :-)

Martin has already pointed out, the wording is decided, and as he
said.

Janet.

[Janet]

In article <su8im8dd2c9en4h8u...@4ax.com>,
junkfo...@gmail.com says...

The form of the question has already been decided, as Martin told
you.

Westminster refused to permit any "devomax" option for "more powers
devolved to Scotland".

Janet

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by "Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me ku>

>> it will effect all of UK, if Scotland drops out both countries will be
>> weaker.
>
>I know, but that isn't what he was saying.

surprise, surprise.

>He was, in effect telling me to
>keep my nose out because I am not Scottish.

which is actually racist if you think about it.

lack of total self determination is one of those things that
"minority" people with any problem see as a convenient scapegoat for
all ills. A totally independent Scotland will get to determine some
extra things like the make up of its minute defence forces*. It will
lose any say in what things like UK banking do, not to mention either
using somebody else's currency or having a tiny vulnerable one and
will not provide the UK prime ministers etc it has in the past. It
will have the say of places like Serbia if and when it can get into
the EU, basically its swapping a big role in the UK with becoming a
subsidiary state of greater Germany :-)

* remember that a dialect is said to be a language without an army and
(nuclear in our case) navy.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Janet

>> >Neither of us are not Scottish
>>
>> we should let Martin decide the wording :-)
>
> Martin has already pointed out, the wording is decided, and as he
>said.

surely you didn't take that as a serious suggestion?

[Janet]

In article <l57im8lj2j53mji4a...@4ax.com>,
junkfo...@gmail.com says...

>
> Following a post by Mike.. . . .
>
> >>"Should Scotland be an independent country?"
>
> (the people who study these things say there is an advantage for the
> positive question)

The question "Should Scotland be an independent country, yes/no"
was proposed by the Electoral Commission, because it is neutral and
unambiguous.

The Electoral Commission is an independent body set up by the UK
Parliament.

Janet