Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Voters move to ban airport night flights
4 views
Skip to first unread message
INIREF*I&R ~ GB
Dec 18, 2012, 11:53:41 AM12/18/12
to
In London and all of UK we need "tools" of direct democracy like this.
As in London, governments of the city-state of Berlin and its
neighbour-Land Brandenburg aim to respond to increased air traffic by
building greater airport capacity. Inner-city airports have either been
closed down (Tempelhof) or are scheduled to close soon (Tegel). To
compensate, a plan has been launched to expand an airport on the
south-east city boundary, Schoenefeld (to be known as "Willy Brandt"
airport). People living around this airport are resigned to the fact
that air traffic will increase but they want to limit the nuisance of
noise and pollution. So, there is a movement to limit night flights.
The Land Brandenburg and the city-state of Berlin are each federal
states with their own government. In both Lands, citizen campaigns have
exploited the RIGHT TO DIRECT DEMOCRACY in attempts to bring in law
which would limit night flying.
In Brandenburg, early December 2012, a "Volksbegehren" (people's wish, a
legal demand for a referendum like a citizens' initiative) to limit
night flights jumped an important hurdle. To trigger a referendum, a
citizens' proposal must be endorsed by at least eighty thousand voters.
This hurdle was easily jumped after more than 106,000 people signed up.
Brandenburg's population is about 2.5 million.
According to the law, the proposal (to limit night flights) must be
debated in the Land's parliament in Potsdam. Parliament may agree to
make the proposal into law. If parliament rejects the citizens' proposal
then a ballot (referendum, Volksentscheid) of all Brandenburg's citizens
must be held to decide the matter.
----------------
Direct Democracy Regulations in Land Brandenburg, Federal Republic of
Germany.
Hurdle to instigate referendum: 4 percent.
Time allowed to collect endorsements: 4 months (only in government
offices, collection in public places not allowed).
Referendum quorum: One quarter of all voters must agree with a proposal
to make or change law. Higher hurdles have been set for matters of
constitution.
-----------------
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
http://www.iniref.org/ Link to site index
As in London, governments of the city-state of Berlin and its
neighbour-Land Brandenburg aim to respond to increased air traffic by
building greater airport capacity. Inner-city airports have either been
closed down (Tempelhof) or are scheduled to close soon (Tegel). To
compensate, a plan has been launched to expand an airport on the
south-east city boundary, Schoenefeld (to be known as "Willy Brandt"
airport). People living around this airport are resigned to the fact
that air traffic will increase but they want to limit the nuisance of
noise and pollution. So, there is a movement to limit night flights.
The Land Brandenburg and the city-state of Berlin are each federal
states with their own government. In both Lands, citizen campaigns have
exploited the RIGHT TO DIRECT DEMOCRACY in attempts to bring in law
which would limit night flying.
In Brandenburg, early December 2012, a "Volksbegehren" (people's wish, a
legal demand for a referendum like a citizens' initiative) to limit
night flights jumped an important hurdle. To trigger a referendum, a
citizens' proposal must be endorsed by at least eighty thousand voters.
This hurdle was easily jumped after more than 106,000 people signed up.
Brandenburg's population is about 2.5 million.
According to the law, the proposal (to limit night flights) must be
debated in the Land's parliament in Potsdam. Parliament may agree to
make the proposal into law. If parliament rejects the citizens' proposal
then a ballot (referendum, Volksentscheid) of all Brandenburg's citizens
must be held to decide the matter.
----------------
Direct Democracy Regulations in Land Brandenburg, Federal Republic of
Germany.
Hurdle to instigate referendum: 4 percent.
Time allowed to collect endorsements: 4 months (only in government
offices, collection in public places not allowed).
Referendum quorum: One quarter of all voters must agree with a proposal
to make or change law. Higher hurdles have been set for matters of
constitution.
-----------------
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
http://www.iniref.org/ Link to site index
Fredxx
Dec 18, 2012, 12:16:14 PM12/18/12
to
On 18/12/2012 16:53, INIREF*I&R ~ GB wrote:
> In London and all of UK we need "tools" of direct democracy like this.
>
> As in London, governments of the city-state of Berlin and its
> neighbour-Land Brandenburg aim to respond to increased air traffic by
> building greater airport capacity. Inner-city airports have either been
> closed down (Tempelhof) or are scheduled to close soon (Tegel). To
> compensate, a plan has been launched to expand an airport on the
> south-east city boundary, Schoenefeld (to be known as "Willy Brandt"
> airport). People living around this airport are resigned to the fact
> that air traffic will increase but they want to limit the nuisance of
> noise and pollution. So, there is a movement to limit night flights.
>
> The Land Brandenburg and the city-state of Berlin are each federal
> states with their own government. In both Lands, citizen campaigns have
> exploited the RIGHT TO DIRECT DEMOCRACY in attempts to bring in law
> which would limit night flying.
>
Not sure how a minority dictating to a majority is called democracy? I
> In London and all of UK we need "tools" of direct democracy like this.
>
> As in London, governments of the city-state of Berlin and its
> neighbour-Land Brandenburg aim to respond to increased air traffic by
> building greater airport capacity. Inner-city airports have either been
> closed down (Tempelhof) or are scheduled to close soon (Tegel). To
> compensate, a plan has been launched to expand an airport on the
> south-east city boundary, Schoenefeld (to be known as "Willy Brandt"
> airport). People living around this airport are resigned to the fact
> that air traffic will increase but they want to limit the nuisance of
> noise and pollution. So, there is a movement to limit night flights.
>
> The Land Brandenburg and the city-state of Berlin are each federal
> states with their own government. In both Lands, citizen campaigns have
> exploited the RIGHT TO DIRECT DEMOCRACY in attempts to bring in law
> which would limit night flying.
>
think we've even waged wars against countries and called then tyrannical
regimes.
tim.....
Dec 19, 2012, 11:43:15 AM12/19/12
to
"Fredxx" <fre...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:kaq8cu$q7c$2...@dont-email.me...
should be debated (and/or put to the rest of the population for
consideration).
The majority decision after that process is complete still prevails.
tim
Message has been deleted
tim.....
Dec 20, 2012, 5:16:49 AM12/20/12
to
"soupdragon" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA12ECE4C5...@news.datemas.de...
> "tim....." <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> news:aje955...@mid.individual.net:
well of course
As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority of)
those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do - you
can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of this set
of people.
tim
AlanG
Dec 20, 2012, 6:26:50 AM12/20/12
to
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:16:49 -0000, "tim....."
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
#
the scoundrels who offer themselves or they are a minority in a labour
or Tory stronghold and know their vote makes no difference
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
#
>
>As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority of)
>those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do - you
>can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of this set
>of people.
>
>tim
>
>
IMNSHO the people who don't vote do so because they don't want any of
>As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority of)
>those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do - you
>can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of this set
>of people.
>
>tim
>
>
the scoundrels who offer themselves or they are a minority in a labour
or Tory stronghold and know their vote makes no difference
INIREF*I&R ~ GB
Dec 20, 2012, 8:08:56 AM12/20/12
to
is probably a major reason for *not* voting in elections.
If "non-voters" are asked what they think about citizen-led direct
democracy then most of them say they would more likely take part, say in
a referendum.
Message has been deleted
Tim Roll-Pickering
Dec 20, 2012, 9:17:52 AM12/20/12
to
tim..... wrote:
>>> The majority decision after that process is complete still prevails.
>> The majority of those who turn up to vote, you mean..
> well of course
> As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority
> of) those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do -
> you can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of
> this set of people.
I don't think you can even draw that conclusion. The electorate has to be
>>> The majority decision after that process is complete still prevails.
>> The majority of those who turn up to vote, you mean..
> well of course
> As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority
> of) those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do -
> you can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of
> this set of people.
reasonably aware that the referendum is going on in the first place and they
have to have easy access to voting. With a regular election the organisation
infrastructure, the media and the parties all do part of this but a local
referendum may not have such good localised media coverage, the campaigns
may be starting from scratch without much pre-existing voter contact and may
not even have strategists deciding to go for a universal contact approach
(the Yes to AV campaign suffered from both of these), the organisation
infrastructure may not extend to a free mailshot for both campaigns, there
may not even be an officially registered campaign for one side and so
resources are denied to both (as in the Welsh Assembly powers transfer
referendum) and so forth. Thus it's quite easy for the voter who doesn't
follow local politics strongly to be totally unaware a vote is taking place
and their silence cannot be presumed to be an endorsement of whatever others
chose. Conversely have too many referendums on the same day and there's the
risk that voters get overwhelmed.
--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c
tim.....
Dec 20, 2012, 1:23:49 PM12/20/12
to
"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nat5d89da3rvb8sq4...@4ax.com...
tim
AlanG
Dec 21, 2012, 3:41:34 AM12/21/12
to
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 18:23:49 -0000, "tim....."
See above "As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that"
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:nat5d89da3rvb8sq4...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:16:49 -0000, "tim....."
>> <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> #
>>>
>>>As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority
>>>of)
>>>those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do - you
>>>can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of this
>>>set
>>>of people.
>>>
>>>tim
>>>
>>>
>> IMNSHO the people who don't vote do so because they don't want any of
>> the scoundrels who offer themselves or they are a minority in a labour
>> or Tory stronghold and know their vote makes no difference
>
>The issue we are discussing is a Yes/No referendum
>
Thread drift to elections generally,
>
>"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:nat5d89da3rvb8sq4...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 10:16:49 -0000, "tim....."
>> <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> #
>>>
>>>As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that (the very vast majority
>>>of)
>>>those that don't vote are happy to accept the will of those that do - you
>>>can't IMHO draw any other conclusion about the intentions/wishes of this
>>>set
>>>of people.
>>>
>>>tim
>>>
>>>
>> IMNSHO the people who don't vote do so because they don't want any of
>> the scoundrels who offer themselves or they are a minority in a labour
>> or Tory stronghold and know their vote makes no difference
>
>The issue we are discussing is a Yes/No referendum
>
See above "As usual (for elections) it can be assumed that"
0 new messages