Ceiling painting
Matthew Ripley
worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
the ceiling which is showing it's age. It is the original plaster work
(lat & plaster) with various pock marks and cracks. I was wondering of
the alternatives to papering baring in mind in my opinion that there is
far too much artex in the world. At the sheds I have seen this special
ceiling paints that claims to cover up minor imperfections and was
wondering if anyone has had any experience with these (some kind of
thick gel). Or would a new plaster skim etc. be a better approach. The
ceiling is only about 4m x 1m and whereas I do relish a challenge
replacing it with plasterboard would be a tad ambitions for me.
I've tried searching deja news but did not come up with anything so I
was wondering if anyone could help.
cheers.
Matt.
--
Matt Ripley CAA Institute of Satellite Navigation
School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering
University of Leeds, Leeds, UK, LS2 9JT.
e-mail: M.Ri...@caaisn.leeds.ac.uk
piers_t...@my-dejanews.com
> I'm currently renovating a victorian semi in my spare time and the room
> worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
> the ceiling which is showing it's age. It is the original plaster work
> (lat & plaster) with various pock marks and cracks. I was wondering of
> the alternatives to papering baring in mind in my opinion that there is
> far too much artex in the world. At the sheds I have seen this special
> ceiling paints that claims to cover up minor imperfections and was
> wondering if anyone has had any experience with these (some kind of
> thick gel). Or would a new plaster skim etc. be a better approach.
I have many similar ceilings in my Victorian semi. The ceiling paint which
claims to cover cracks works very well - on *hairline* cracks. Larger
imperfections show through. I tried skimming a bit of one ceiling with
"plaster skim". I didn't think much of the results, although my
incompetance never helps.
I have decided that the best course of action is to call it 'character' and
learn to live with it.
Piers
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Graeme Eldred
<m.ri...@caaisn.leeds.ac.uk> writes
>I'm currently renovating a victorian semi in my spare time and the room
>worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
>the ceiling which is showing it's age.
<snip>
I'm also working on a Victorian semi, with similar problems.
Applied the thick paint to a cracked and damaged ceiling twelve months
ago, and no problems since, so, yes, I would recommend it.
--
Graeme
Hertford, England
IanN
will have to be washed off compleatly otherwise no water based paint will
adeare to it properly alternativley paint it with a primer sealer then fill
any cracks and pok marks rub down then apply 2cts of flat oil or matt
emulsion i personally prefer the flat oil, when dry it hides any minor
imperforations
piers_t...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7cjbs4$nj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> m.ri...@caaisn.leeds.ac.uk (Matthew Ripley) wrote:
>> I'm currently renovating a victorian semi in my spare time and the room
>> worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
Chris French
>worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
>the ceiling which is showing it's age. It is the original plaster work
>(lat & plaster) with various pock marks and cracks. I was wondering of
>the alternatives to papering baring in mind in my opinion that there is
>far too much artex in the world. At the sheds I have seen this special
>ceiling paints that claims to cover up minor imperfections and was
>wondering if anyone has had any experience with these (some kind of
>ceiling is only about 4m x 1m and whereas I do relish a challenge
>replacing it with plasterboard would be a tad ambitions for me.
>
If you mean the flexible ceiling paints that they sell, well I don't
think it will do what you want. you will still have to have a good
surface first. I tried some on my kitchen ceiling and some cracks have
come back. Also it was impossible to get a good finish with it (you can
see marks from the roller when the light from the window hits it at the
right angle).
I'm not to sure that a plaster skim is going to adhere well enough to
the existing ceiling.
Putting up plasterboard isn't that bad, as long as you've got some one
to help you.
But I think I'd paper it. Prepare the surface well, fill in holes and
cracks. For largish cracks you might want to use tape to reinforce it.
Make sure that the repairs are well feathered in and sanded smooth -
else you will see bumps through the paper. Then paper with lining paper,
or a textured paper if you want.
--
Chris French, Leeds
Matthew Ripley
> If you mean the flexible ceiling paints that they sell, well I don't
> think it will do what you want. you will still have to have a good
> surface first. I tried some on my kitchen ceiling and some cracks have
> come back. Also it was impossible to get a good finish with it (you can
> see marks from the roller when the light from the window hits it at the
> right angle).
>
> I'm not to sure that a plaster skim is going to adhere well enough to
> the existing ceiling.
>
> Putting up plasterboard isn't that bad, as long as you've got some one
> to help you.
>
> But I think I'd paper it. Prepare the surface well, fill in holes and
> cracks. For largish cracks you might want to use tape to reinforce it.
> Make sure that the repairs are well feathered in and sanded smooth -
> else you will see bumps through the paper. Then paper with lining paper,
> or a textured paper if you want.
Thanks for your advice, as I suspected I am going to end up papering
over the cracks so to speak. It's just interesting to see what
alternatives come onto the market and find out what the general
consensus is before you end up wasting lost of time and money to get an
unsatisfatory result, or plaster all over the floor.
Tony Polson
m.ri...@caaisn.leeds.ac.uk (Matthew Ripley) wrote:
>I'm currently renovating a victorian semi in my spare time and the room
>worked on is the hall. I was wondering about the best way of tackling
>the ceiling which is showing it's age. It is the original plaster work
>(lat & plaster) with various pock marks and cracks. I was wondering of
>the alternatives to papering baring in mind in my opinion that there is
>far too much artex in the world.
As you've ruled out a new ceiling (wise move IMHO, have you ever seen
the *unholy* mess after you've demolished a L&P ceiling?) I think you
could do no better than make a feature of it. Rag rolling makes poor
plaster look like it was *meant* to be that way.
Fill the worst holes and cracks using a decorator's filler which will
remain flexible. Then two coats of silk finish emulsion to your choice
of colour. Allow to dry. Roller on a Scumble glaze (available at all
DIY sheds) which you have tinted (using tints available from the same
section as Scumble) to your choice. Rag off with a ragging cloth (or
old chamois leather) to your chosen design. Remember to keep the
ragging cloth (or leather) clean by rinsing it and wringing it out when
it starts to hold too much scumble.
As with all paint effects, practice makes perfect. Set aside a trial
area and learn the technique. I'm no expert but learnt by trial and
error before even attempting the 'real' job.
--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
Stuart Grant
ceilings are on the way to collapsing. Get above it and hoover away any
loose rubble, then pour diluted 50/50 PVA bonding over the whole area.
That will fix the plaster firmly to the laths and bond the cracks
together, and make the whole more secure. Then skim thinly with
polyfilla and repaint. It'll look like new and stay that way.
Stuart Grant
Stuart Grant
urgently. Ceilings are heavy and are not fussy who they fall on. First
you'll need to support the sagging centre with a partly inflated air
bed on a sheet of chipboard and some props. A pair of workmates is
handy here. Just support it, don't try and push it up into place yet.
Then get above it with the hoover and remove all the loose debris
between the laths and the plaster, actually sand/lime base from that
side. You'll probably have to pick the bigger bits out by hand, tedious
and slow but quicker and easier than the alternative. Carefully CUT one
lath out if any loose bits are too big to pass between two laths. Don't
just pull one up until it snaps because the other end of it will
probably lever down and break through the plaster. When there are no
obstructions between the laths and the plaster you can push the ceiling
into place against the laths by raising the props. Then pour on the PVA
mix, replacing the removed lath at the same time. If the whole ceiling
fails to rise together, glue the supported area first, then move the
support and repeat the process.
Stuart Grant
Stuart Grant
> Unfortunately I can't get into the loft. Well I can but not with the
> hoover as the hatch is only 2.5'sq
>
couldn't you pull it up behind you with a rope? Or send the wife up?
Stuart Grant
Susan Fitt
My guess would be that the plaster has already come away from the lath,
and is hanging "loose", bound together by a combination of its own limited
strength and the paper covering. In this state, you'll never stabilise
it with PVA glue, nor satisfactorily nail it back up with sheets of plaster
board from underneath (there'll be too much loose crap which will get between
the plaster and the joists).
It's a relatively small room, so go ahead with the destructive approach.
(You could try hoovering up some of the dust from above, if you have access.)
I'd recommend a two-man approach, with one holding a large bin-liner underneath
while the other inserts a wrecking bar between the lath and the plaster to
break away the plaster. Don't try to pull it all down in one go !
I don't know whether it needs fixing or not, but if it does
pay someone else to do it! Our kitchen ceiling fell in once,
or at least a quarter of it did (room about 12' by 16') and that
quarter produced huge amounts of dust and nasties and took
three trips to the tip for disposal. We'd been trying to get
it fixed for three weeks prior to collapse, but all the decent
looking plasterers in YP were too busy, so we got Joe Bloggs
cowboys to come and do it. We sealed off other rooms with
bin liners on the doors, then they pulled down the lath and
plaster and removed it, put up plasterboard and skimmed it,
all done in a day for 250pounds. It would have taken us
weeks to do it, we couldn't have skimmed it as well as Joe
Bloggs cowboys, plus there's all the nasties in the plaster,
the weight to dispose of (it's heavy stuff, and so dangerous
too if it falls on your head - some fell on my foot, and
that was bad enough.) The plasterboard would be heavy to
put up as well I guess, unless you use small sheets.
I did feel a bit bad at passing on the nasties to Joe
Bloggs and his pals, but well, he chooses to do it for a
living, and with no dust masks and lots of fags he can't be
too concerned for his health...
You couldn't pay me enough to do a job like that.
--
Sue Fitt
Edinburgh
Take 'noads' out of the address to email me.
Ken Redman
> I'd recommend a two-man approach, with one holding a large bin-liner
> underneath while the other inserts a wrecking bar between the lath and
> the plaster to break away the plaster.
Bin liners are a bit fragile for this: a plastic dustbin or similar
might be better. Cover the whole floor in damp-proof course plastic (or
other very heavy duty) sheeting.
> Don't try to pull it all down in one go !
If it's already loose, you may not have any choice!! Wear a safety
helmet, gloves, dust mask, goggles. Try to stop up as many clothing
access holes (wrist, neck etc.) as possible.
>
> --
> John Laird (jo...@yrl.co.uk) "I have discovered a truly elegant sig,
> Yezerski Roper Ltd sadly there is no room here to show it."
> http://www.yrl.co.uk
--
Ken Redman
'Semper in faecibus sumus: sole profundum variat'
To reply remove dot. from email address
Jon Axtell
>somebody said:
>> Unfortunately I can't get into the loft. Well I can but not with the
>> hoover as the hatch is only 2.5'sq
>>
>couldn't you pull it up behind you with a rope?
I could try that, but then knowing what's up there will spoil my nice
clean hoover - no don't say that hoover are supposed to suck up dirt
:-). Haven't actually been up in the loft, but from what I can see I
think a wheelbarrow is more suited to the amount of dirt up there.
> Or send the wife up?
No wife - yet.
Jon
--
j...@axtell.obvious.demon.co.uk
Remove the obvious bit
Jon Axtell
>It could be repaired with care and a second pair of hands, and
>urgently. Ceilings are heavy and are not fussy who they fall on.
Point taken.
>First
>you'll need to support the sagging centre with a partly inflated air
>bed on a sheet of chipboard and some props. A pair of workmates is
[snip]
>fails to rise together, glue the supported area first, then move the
>support and repeat the process.
>Stuart Grant
Love the idea of that. Unfortunately I have no air bed. Also, I don't
think the plaster has come loose from the laths. I think the plaster
and laths have both come loose from the ceiling joists. I think it'll
be simpler (if messier in pulling down first) to replace with
plasterboard, just need to screw them to the ceiling joists. Better in
the long run as well.
John Laird
> On 17 Mar 99 15:32:11 GMT, jo...@yrl.co.uk (John Laird) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>It's a relatively small room, so go ahead with the destructive approach.
>>(You could try hoovering up some of the dust from above, if you have access.)
>>while the other inserts a wrecking bar between the lath and the plaster to
>
> Ta for the info.
>
> Unfortunately I can't get into the loft. Well I can but not with the
> (10'). I'll just have to get dirty.
I'd really try to get up there first. Otherwise you don't know *what* will
come down - loft insulation, old toys, spare bricks, tiles, etc.
Ken Redman
it down from above...
Jon Axtell wrote:
> ... Also, I don't
> think the plaster has come loose from the laths. I think the plaster
> and laths have both come loose from the ceiling joists.
--
Stuart Grant
have at hand) from Homebase against the cost and aggro of replacing the
ceiling. Mind you, it'll be nice and clean when you unpack it......:-)
Stuart Grant
Stuart Grant
> In this state, you'll never stabilise it with PVA glue,
>
anything porous. It will soak into every pore in the material (provided
you apply sufficient quantity) and then set to a tough plastic matrix
throughout the volume of the material. If you could remove the masonry
and just see the PVA, it would resemble a fine sponge or scouring pad
the shape of the structure it was applied to, rather like glass fibres
in GRP.
With lath and plaster, it will bond the plaster coats and particles
together and to the laths (it's also an excellent wood glue) and
effectively transform it into a one-piece plastic structure.
Note I stress pouring it on from above in sufficient quantity, not
painting it on from below as you would surface "stabilisers".
Stuart Grant
Jon Axtell
>In article <36f0e78e...@news.theplanet.net>, j...@axtell.obvious.demon.co.uk (Jon Axtell) writes:
>> On 17 Mar 99 15:32:11 GMT, jo...@yrl.co.uk (John Laird) wrote:
>>
[snip]
>> Unfortunately I can't get into the loft. Well I can but not with the
>> hoover as the hatch is only 2.5'square and the ceiling is very high
>> (10'). I'll just have to get dirty.
>
>I'd really try to get up there first. Otherwise you don't know *what* will
>come down - loft insulation, old toys, spare bricks, tiles, etc.
I should have said I can't get into the loft, but I have poked my head
through the small hatch to look. There is a lot of dust and dirt
though. I'll be taking Ken's advice and wearing all my safety gear.
Jon Axtell
<ken.r...@mround.bt.co.uk> wrote:
>Of course, the risk of the ceiling falling on you is reduced if you push
>it down from above...
Unless you fall through with the ceiling :-)
Jon Axtell
<ken.r...@mround.bt.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>If it's already loose, you may not have any choice!! Wear a safety
>helmet, gloves, dust mask, goggles. Try to stop up as many clothing
>access holes (wrist, neck etc.) as possible.
Would getting a steamer going for a short time beforehand to dampen
the atmosphere in the room help to lessen the problem with the dust.
Yeh, it'll be muckier but it wouldn't get into all the nooks and
crannies of my body would it?
Jon
Ken Redman
remains of the ceiling, not under it!!! ;-)
Jon Axtell wrote:
> Unless you fall through with the ceiling :-)
--
Stuart Grant
> and laths have both come loose from the ceiling joists.
>
joists are rotten. If the former, consider adapting the idea to gluing
the laths to the underside of the ceiling joists. Use a poly bottle of
PVA wood glue, Resin W or similar, spread liberally under each joist.
It will be stronger than it was when new when it's dry.
If the latter, have a fire.
PVC air beds are cheap enough in the grockle shops. If it's got a
duck's head on it turn it upside down and hang it over the edge of the
board.
Stuart Grant