help:black mould on marine ply
KVP
wood used under the felt installed by my builder , it has a 2 layer
felt the 1st was a plain black felt and the 2nd is a normal flat roof
felt with green grainy bits in
1. should it have 3 layer felt esp. on the kitchen part? i cannot see
any black mould on the underside of the marine ply as in the kitchen it
has been plaster boarded and plastered.
2. however in the garage part i can see quite a bit of black mould on
the underside of the marine ply ,as this part has not been plaster
boarded .
i can't see this to normal ,its been getting a little worse lately due
to the bad weather .
any opinions would be very much appreciated . before i confront my
builder
thank you
Peter Parry
>1. should it have 3 layer felt esp. on the kitchen part? i cannot see
>any black mould on the underside of the marine ply as in the kitchen it
>has been plaster boarded and plastered.
The kitchen part should have been insulated and vapour sealed.
>2. however in the garage part i can see quite a bit of black mould on
>the underside of the marine ply ,as this part has not been plaster
>boarded .
>
>i can't see this to normal ,its been getting a little worse lately due
>to the bad weather .
Its quite normal and caused by condensation on the ply surface (the
surface facing you) providing nice conditions for mould growth. The
ply is quite edible. Treat with an appropriate anti fungicide and
improve the garage ventilation. Insulating the roof will also help.
I presume you don't use the garage for anything silly like a car. If
you do the water from the car is supplying the water vapour for both
condensation and rusting the car.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
KVP
also i will be using it for my car
Peter Parry
>thank you for comments is a 2 layer felt enough for flat roofs?
I think it depends on the felt, there are certainly some felts which
only recommend two layers but I don't know enough about flat roofs to
comment on the general case.
>
>also i will be using it for my car
Two layers of felt are enough to do a car :-). However, putting a
car in a building capable of being used as a workshop is considered
to be a sacrilegious act around here.
Peter Crosland
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KVP
Russell Eberhardt
>also i will be using it for my car
If you're putting the car in the garage to protect it from the
elements, don't. My metalurgy lecturer used to point out that cars
lasted longer if kept outside.
If it is to protect it from vandals, then make sure that there is lots
of ventilation in the garage and find somewhere else to store tools!
Regards,
Russell.
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Andy Woodward
>If you're putting the car in the garage to protect it from the
>elements, don't. My metalurgy lecturer used to point out that cars
>lasted longer if kept outside.
I'd be interested to know his logic on this.......In personal
experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer. Did he
own a car? How old was it?
Maybe I have an uncharacteristically jaundiced view of academics,
having worked in academia for 25 years.......
Peter Parry
wrote:
>I'd be interested to know his logic on this.......In personal
>experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
>rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer.
Nah. Load of cobblers. Left in a garage the water underneath spends
its life condensing on internal bits of metalwork for ever. Left
outside the wind soon dries things out. Cars knacker all the tools
in the garage as well.
Vehicle paintwork last better in garages.
Brennan GODDARD
I guess it depends _where_ outside you leave it - the Aber seafront
being at one extreme and a dry valley in Antarctica the other...
B
Andy Woodward
>>experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
>>rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer.
>
>Nah. Load of cobblers. Left in a garage the water underneath spends
>its life condensing on internal bits of metalwork for ever. Left
>outside the wind soon dries things out. Cars knacker all the tools
>in the garage as well.
....whereas those left outside get new condensation all over
everything every time there's a dew.......
If you're continually getting recondensation, your garage isnt
ventilated.
I wonder whether vehicle restorers store their yet-to-be-painted
classics indoors or outdoors?
Peter Parry
wrote:
>I wonder whether vehicle restorers store their yet-to-be-painted
>classics indoors or outdoors?
In barns with no doors if they can't get a dry heated home.
The Natural Philosopher
Peter Parry wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:29:23 GMT, a...@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
> wrote:
>
> >I'd be interested to know his logic on this.......In personal
> >experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
> >rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer.
>
> Nah. Load of cobblers. Left in a garage the water underneath spends
> its life condensing on internal bits of metalwork for ever. Left
> outside the wind soon dries things out. Cars knacker all the tools
> in the garage as well.
Not true, especially with modern galvanised and undersealed bodies.
The ideal thing is a well ventilated garage where water can run out the
door. By keeping teh rain out, the relative humidity is always lower
than outside, and the ambient temp usually a bit warmer due to sun on
roof etc.
Cras in garages don't freeze up so readily - underbonnet heat can keep
em a bit warm for days on end, if no draughts - star better and stay
dry. Lets face it, the average car is pretty conductive, and theres up
to 100kw of heat coming off yer engine when running. Park a wet car in
teh garage and it dries out OK, and fast.
Since I am garageless during house rebuild, every time I start the jag
it grinds due to rust on the discs - never a problem when garaged.
>
> Vehicle paintwork last better in garages.
And a lot of other stuff.
Thing to do is to pressure wash the car *underneath* when warm, let it
drip the worst, and then garage it.
The Natural Philosopher
Peter Parry wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:26:25 GMT, a...@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
> wrote:
>
> >I wonder whether vehicle restorers store their yet-to-be-painted
> >classics indoors or outdoors?
>
> In barns with no doors if they can't get a dry heated home.
I hope they set mousetraps. Mice love making nests in, and out of
electrical wiring...
Dave Plowman
Andy Woodward <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote:
> I'd be interested to know his logic on this.......In personal
> experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
> rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer. Did he
> own a car? How old was it?
I've got an '84 SD1 in pretty good nick - ie no rust whatsoever, and it's
lived outside all its life. I've never had a garage and don't think my
cars rust any earlier than those who do. It could be that someone who
takes the time and effort to garage a car every night just looks after it
better.
--
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Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Tony Bryer
wrote:
> .....whereas those left outside get new condensation all over
> everything every time there's a dew.......
> If you're continually getting recondensation, your garage isnt
> ventilated.
>
> I wonder whether vehicle restorers store their yet-to-be-painted
> classics indoors or outdoors?
When I was at college one of the lecturers ran a classic-car
wedding car business. He kept his cars in wooden garages which he
reckoned to be the best option as they 'breathe'.
(Trivia alert): For white weddings choose a dark coloured car, not
a white limo. The dress shows up much better in the photos. I
learned a lot from said lecturer; this bit of info is not likely
to be one I use <g>
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
Peter Parry
wrote:
>The ideal thing is a well ventilated garage where water can run out the
>door.
Well that excludes 99.995% of all garages right off.
>Since I am garageless during house rebuild, every time I start the jag
>it grinds due to rust on the discs - never a problem when garaged.
I've kept 30 years worth of Alfas outside with no problems with rust.
Not that there has ever been the slightest chance of being able to
fit them inside no matter how big the garage.
Andy Hall
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:sejb5u4n8l7ifems8...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:43:45 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
> wrote:
>
> I've kept 30 years worth of Alfas outside with no problems with rust.
>
I thought that that was the biggest problem which is why they are mostly
red - or is that urban legend? ;-)
.andy
Andy Woodward
>>classics indoors or outdoors?
>
>In barns with no doors if they can't get a dry heated home.
Something like a reasonably ventilated garage, you mean?......
Peter Parry
wrote:
>I thought that that was the biggest problem which is why they are mostly
>red - or is that urban legend? ;-)
True urban legend, but not any more :-). The Alfa Sud rusted while
you waited to refuel but after Lancia were destroyed by the great
rust scandal in the 70's they got their act together and that plus a
liberal application of Texguard seems to have solved their rust
problems.
Willy Eckerslyke
> (Trivia alert): For white weddings choose a dark coloured car, not
> a white limo. The dress shows up much better in the photos. I
> learned a lot from said lecturer; this bit of info is not likely
> to be one I use <g>
I'd suggest that he doesn't like photographers much. Trying to
retain detail in a white dress on a bright sunny day is not easy
and will almost certainly need sufficient underexposure to render
a dark car as a featureless black blob.
Or perhaps by "show up" he means stand out like a rabbit caught in
a car's headlights.
--
Regards, Willy.
PTO
Willy Eckerslyke
> Cras in garages don't freeze up so readily - underbonnet heat can keep
> em a bit warm for days on end, if no draughts - star better and stay
> dry. Lets face it, the average car is pretty conductive, and theres up
> to 100kw of heat coming off yer engine when running. Park a wet car in
> teh garage and it dries out OK, and fast.
Mine doesn't. The top of the bonnet does, but there'll still be
drips on the rest of the body and any mud will be sodden three
days later if I don't attend to it. My garage is pretty well
ventilated too.
I agree with the rest of what you say, though.
Except for the bit about humidity. On frosty days, condensation
can be dripping off the underside of the garage roof while it's
cold and dry outside. I really do need to sort out some insulation.
--
Regards, Willy.
PTO
Peter Parry
wrote:
>Something like a reasonably ventilated garage, you mean?......
Yes, unfortunately "reasonably ventilated" and "garage" appear in
most cases to be mutually exclusive.
Andy Woodward
>
>Yes, unfortunately "reasonably ventilated" and "garage" appear in
>most cases to be mutually exclusive.
Yeah. There should be a gap all round at the top of the wall under the
roof. There's no point in there not being - it isnt as if the garage
has to be kept warm.
The Natural Philosopher
I simply don't have this problem. The eaves aren't sealed, and the
up-and-over doors aren't sealed either very well.
Its *always* dry in the garage, and the car heat seems to dry it all out
well. Mind you, since I live 'ten miles from anywhere' the cars are
always well warm by the time they get parked...
>
> --
> Regards, Willy.
>
> PTO
Russell Eberhardt
wrote:
>I'd be interested to know his logic on this.......In personal
>experience, and observation of others, cars left outside are
>rustbuckets in a few years. Those in garages last a lot longer. Did he
>own a car? How old was it?
>
One of the reasons given was, as has been suggested by other posters,
that the car will remain damp as a result of being put away wet and
poor ventilation in the garage.
The other reason had to do with ion concentration gradients due to
small particles of grit on the surface which stay put. The argument
was that they would move when it rained or when the wind blew outside.
FWIW I keep my modern car outside, not really for the above reasons
but because I can't seem to clear enough of the junk out of the garage
to make room and if I could I would be too lazy to put the car in
there anyway! My vintage cars, the oldest being 73 years old, are
kept in a well ventilated wooden garage they don't go out too often
but when they do get dirty or wet, they are cleaned and dried before
being put away.