Any House Alarm Experts out there?
Jag Mann
zones Including entry/exit, will like to add 2 PIR's as well, will the
PIR's need to be on a separate zone of there own? A local company
recommended Scantronic 9449. Want to charge me £650 for Installation,
which includes £120 for the first year of monitoring.
Is there a better product (price ratio) available compared to
Scantronic stuff? Is it worth paying for installation (now that I have
done all the dirty/hard work of feeding cables etc) just to get
discount of insurance and have my house linked to a monitoring station?
Mind you £120 does not sound too bad.
Apart from 7 hard wired zones, I want to add 2 PIR's, 1 Panic Button, 2
Remotes, and 1 sound bomb/box on the inside of the house.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jag Mann
PS: I am in the South London, England.
--
Thanks
Jag Mann
Sent via Deja.com
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Peter Parry
wrote:
>likely to have 7
>zones Including entry/exit,
This must be a very big house!
>Is there a better product (price ratio) available compared to
>Scantronic stuff?
You might want to try uk.tech.electronic-security for this question.
>Is it worth paying for installation (now that I have
>done all the dirty/hard work of feeding cables etc) just to get
>discount of insurance and have my house linked to a monitoring station?
No. Look at www.bsia.co.uk and read the two downloadable PDF
documents. The number of false alarms you are now allowed before you
lose any response is very small.
Don't forget that in return for a minuscule drop in your insurance
premiums (usually far less than the annual maintenance cost) you will
have a clause inserted in your insurance policy that says if any loss
occurs without alarm activation you will not be covered.
This means you have to set it at night, whenever you are out in the
garden, and on any occasion, no matter how brief, that you leave the
house. All in all it's just too much hassle.
>Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
You would be far better off spending your money on improving physical
security than an alarm.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Jag Mann
> This must be a very big house!
No Not very big at all, ground front, ground back, top front, top back,
entry/exit, loft and garage makes up 7 zones.
> You might want to try uk.tech.electronic-security for this question.
Will try this now.
> No. Look at www.bsia.co.uk and read the two downloadable PDF
> documents. The number of false alarms you are now allowed before you
> lose any response is very small.
> This means you have to set it at night, whenever you are out in the
> garden, and on any occasion, no matter how brief, that you leave the
> house. All in all it's just too much hassle.
Point taken, if u'r house get done when u forgot to turn the alarm on
you get a reduced compensation.
> You would be far better off spending your money on improving physical
> security than an alarm.
Ok u secure physical structure but on one day u forgot to close one
window in the bathroom and that is enough a chance for a theif.
steve
voted for a compromise.
1.) Installed a real alarm box on the outside of the house complete with
flashing led`s (just a 12v power supply)
2.) Increased the physical security round the house.
Saves the money/hassle of installing the whole system, plus me thinks a
potential burglar would think twice if the physical security is good & there
is what looks like a real alarm box flashing away on the wall.
Steve
"Jag Mann" <jag....@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
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Peter Parry
wrote:
>No Not very big at all, ground front, ground back, top front, top back,
>entry/exit, loft and garage makes up 7 zones.
That seems to be a lot of zones, you normally only zone things to be
able to tell where an alarm is coming from and so you can selectively
disable bits of it.
>Point taken, if u'r house get done when u forgot to turn the alarm on
>you get a reduced compensation.
Read your policy very carefully, on many if there is no alarm
activation you get no compensation at all.
It often isn't expressed quite like that so take care. What it often
says is that if there is no sign of a break in they will not pay up.
This is because the great majority of policies don't cover you from
theft by ostensibly by others living in your house.
"No sign of a break in" if you have a monitored alarm is taken as
being "no alarm activation". (You often won't find that defined in
the policy - you have to ask them specifically). The bits of glass
all over the carpet are ignored because if there had been a real
break-in the alarm would have gone off, no alarm activation means it
was someone living in the house who broke the glass to make it look
like a break in - Catch 22.
>Ok u secure physical structure but on one day u forgot to close one
>window in the bathroom and that is enough a chance for a theif.
Yes there is an opportunity but you have to combine opportunity and
with someone to take it. The chances of you leaving an accessible
window open AND having a visiting tea leaf at the same time are not
huge. Also if people are likely to leave windows open they are also
likely to forget to arm the alarm.
Smashing a weak door or window down and walking off with the telly,
computer etc while the alarm sounds can be done in minutes, far less
time than the response time of the alarm company. Not many scroats
are put off by an alarm going off once they are committed to entry so
long as they have a quick escape route. Far more are put off by a
house which is secure and apparently has an alarm.
Domestic response time for a first call in south London would
typically be 20 to 40 minutes for police notified by an alarm
company, perhaps faster for panic button activation. It might be
worth a chat with your local crime prevention officer.
I'd adopt Steves approach, alarm box on the outside and spend the
rest of the money on improved perimeter security.
Incidentally if you do go for a monitored service you might also be
offered the choice of linked smoke detectors. Think very carefully
about these - nice idea but if you like toast or favour conflagatory
cooking which makes any amount of smoke or oil haze you can spend a
lot of time getting to know your local fire crew who can get
seriously peed off by the third or fourth visit.
jam...@my-deja.com
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Have wired the whole house with 8-core alarm cable and likely to have
we are getting a 4 zone PIR system with internal sound bomb and two
external boxes put in (cables already in place) - i doubt a burgler
could get far without tripping it and our house is pretty big - cost is
£325, for an extra £120 we can get a phone dialler module fitted which
will call up to five numbers when it goes off (inc our mobile) - Its
probably going to get a quicker response from police if a householder
call them than an alarm co...,
Jamesey
Kevin & Karin
which), useful if your alarm system is already installed. Not sure about
compatability though.
<jam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95s0ca$nms$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
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Nightjar
"steve" <st...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:t82q1en...@xo.supernews.co.uk...
> I thought long & hard about a alarm system & all the options, in the end I
> voted for a compromise.
>
> 1.) Installed a real alarm box on the outside of the house complete with
> flashing led`s (just a 12v power supply)
Just as with video cameras, flashing LEDs are probably as good as putting a
notice saying DUMMY on the box. They are not a feature of any alarm system
installed in any of my factories, nor on any of the houses around here. I
have only ever seen them on dummy boxes and dummy video cameras.
If you want to put a dummy box up, it is best to put up one that looks like
a current box from a major company. One factory got burgled recently because
the thieves knew that a Thorn box on the outside meant that the system was
not current and would, therefore, not be monitored. ADT took over Thorn a
while back and replaced all the boxes with theirs. Thieves also are likely
to recognise most boxes sold as dummy boxes - their way of living relies on
such knowledge.
> 2.) Increased the physical security round the house.
> Saves the money/hassle of installing the whole system, plus me thinks a
> potential burglar would think twice if the physical security is good &
there
> is what looks like a real alarm box flashing away on the wall.
Physical security is always the best first line of defence. Basically, you
only need to appear to be more difficult to burgle than the houses nearby.
Alarms are only useful if you know someone is going to respond to them.
Colin Bignell
Nightjar
>
> > This must be a very big house!
>
> No Not very big at all, ground front, ground back, top front, top back,
> entry/exit, loft and garage makes up 7 zones.
That sounds like overkill. You only need zones so that you can have
different areas set under different conditions. For example, a common house
setup would be zone 1 entry/exit, zone 2 night set (house occupied), zone 3
(with zones 1 & 2) full set (house unoccupied). You might need a fourth zone
as a walkthrough zone, which might be the garage if it is attached to the
house and you routinely enter that way. Alternatively a remote garage might
need a zone to itself. If you have autodialling, you might also want to use
one zone for a fire alarm, so that can use the autodialler. If you are
really paranoid, or live in a very rough area, another zone could be used
for PA buttons with an autodialler.
> > You would be far better off spending your money on improving physical
> > security than an alarm.
>
> Ok u secure physical structure but on one day u forgot to close one
> window in the bathroom and that is enough a chance for a theif.
If that is even a remote possibility, do not bother with an alarm system. It
will probably invalidate your insurance if you forget to set it, which is no
less likely than forgetting to close a window.
Colin Bignell
Clint Sharp
<nigh...@insertmysurname.uk.com> writes
>Just as with video cameras, flashing LEDs are probably as good as putting a
>notice saying DUMMY on the box. They are not a feature of any alarm system
>installed in any of my factories, nor on any of the houses around here. I
>have only ever seen them on dummy boxes and dummy video cameras.
alarm box, I can see two now on the box across the road. As to whether
the alarm is real or not, the b*****d thing kept me awake for most of
the night a month or two ago whilst the owners were away. The police
asked me if I could see any signs of a break in and then declined my
offer of a nice early morning ride in a police car to see for themselves
when I told them I couldn't. Flashing LEDs may say 'Fake' but they don't
always tell the truth.
--
Clint Sharp
druid2uk
wrote:
>Have wired the whole house with 8-core alarm cable and likely to have 7
>zones Including entry/exit, will like to add 2 PIR's as well, will the
>PIR's need to be on a separate zone of there own? A local company
>recommended Scantronic 9449. Want to charge me £650 for Installation,
>which includes £120 for the first year of monitoring.
>
>Is there a better product (price ratio) available compared to
>Scantronic stuff? Is it worth paying for installation (now that I have
>done all the dirty/hard work of feeding cables etc) just to get
>discount of insurance and have my house linked to a monitoring station?
>Mind you £120 does not sound too bad.
>
>Apart from 7 hard wired zones, I want to add 2 PIR's, 1 Panic Button, 2
>Remotes, and 1 sound bomb/box on the inside of the house.
>
>Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
>
IMHO, It is better to do the job yourself, fitting and wiring an
intruder alarm is not a very difficult or complicated job, and most of
the companies that supply the parts by mail order give lots of advice
in their catalogues also most control panels are supplied with full
easy to fit instructions.
The main advantages in doing the job yourself are,
1, As you did the work yourself you will know where all the
connections boxes etc are and will be able to do any maintenance
yourself.
2, Only you will know about the installation, rather than some unknown
person who you cannot guarantee is trustworthy, Alarm companies have
been known to employ criminals!
3,Normally if you do the job yourself you will almost certainly take
more time and do the job properly, whereas a company will do the job
as quick as possible to make the most money and not necessarily do it
better than you will.
4, If you buy the components from mail order specialists and do the
work yourself you will save a lot of money.
As others have said I think 7 zones is far too many, the less zones
you have and the simpler you can make the installation the less
problems you will have with false alarms etc, I did my own
installation on my own property and have only two zones (it is a large
5 bed house) I have only had one false alarm since fitting (about 8
years ago) and that was due to a lightning strike and a duff battery!
John.
Dave Plowman
Nightjar <nigh...@insertmysurname.uk.com> wrote:
> Just as with video cameras, flashing LEDs are probably as good as
> putting a notice saying DUMMY on the box.
Eh? Most of the ones round here seem to have LEDs on them - some flashing,
some not.
--
* When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Peter Parry
wrote:
>No. Look at www.bsia.co.uk and read the two downloadable PDF
>documents. The number of false alarms you are now allowed before you
>lose any response is very small.
Sorry, I should also have suggested you look closely at the new
verification procedures in (I think) the installation standards
document, you might need either video or audio links to the alarm
monitoring centre later in the year).
Dave Liquorice
> Is it worth paying for installation (now that I have done all the
> dirty/hard work of feeding cables etc) ...
One would expect a decent company to reduce the installation charge in such
a case.
> ... just to get discount of insurance ...
Not worth it. The discount is tiddly in relation to the alarm costs. By all
means fit a monitored alarm but don't tell the insurance company. OK you
won't get the discout but having the discount is *NOT* A Good Thing for the
reasons already outlined.
> ... and have my house linked to a monitoring station?
Depends on your local constabulary response times can be very variable.
South London I'd expect upwards of an hour to next day. It only takes 5 mins
tops to get in and out with telly, computer, video, CD collection etc and
possibly leave a little "message" in the middle of your dining room carpet.
Physical security is far more of a deterrant than an alarm. If they can't
get in without spending a bit of time or making a noise they won't.(*)
(*) Unless you have something they really want to knick in which case you'll
never stop 'em.
--
Cheers new...@howhill.com
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.
Dave Liquorice
> Its probably going to get a quicker response from police if a householder
> call them than an alarm co...,
Debateable. And you have the problem of false alarms and the worry about
what has actually happened (if anything) if it calls you. Think very
carefully about this, how are you going to react and feel. Especially if
your a long way from the place and you know that your loved ones are there.
Too many false alarms and the police may well stop coming to your premisis,
full stop. Just like they do with to many false calls from a monitored
system.
Jag Mann
deticate zones to all areas of the house, Will definetly like to keep
garage, and loft as a seperate zone, then you have entry/exit thats 3,
so am I right in assuming rest of the areas could be made as one zone
(ground front and back and ist floor back and front)?
Can someone also recommend any mail order companies who do decent kit
(possible with smoke alarm integrated, phone no. and/or web sites are
welcome.
I quite like the idea of house been monitored, its like having a
watchman for 365 days, 24 hrs for £125-150 a year I think this service
is well worth it.
Thanks for all your responses.
Dave Liquorice
> As others have said I think 7 zones is far too many, the less zones
> you have and the simpler you can make the installation the less
> problems you will have with false alarms etc,
But *when* you do get a fault you won't know where it is without a lot of
beggering about which may make the fault (temporally) go away. Nothing like
threatening a piece of kit with a screw driver to make it behave for the
next few days. Long enough to lull you into a false sense of security.
Are we not confusing Zones with Groups anyway? Ours has each sensor in it's
own "zone" these are then "grouped" to make the part sets. A least I know
exactly where to look when a fault develops and can disable individual
sensors if required.
If for example all your doors are one zone and you get a faulty switch
disabling that zone disables all your doors unless physically bypass that
contact. Might not be convenient to do this in a howling gale when you want
to go out and the contact has failed open so you can't set the alarm until
you close or ignore that contact...
Andrew Gabriel
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> writes:
> Will have to look again at the zones, I thought it will be neet to
> deticate zones to all areas of the house, Will definetly like to keep
> garage, and loft as a seperate zone, then you have entry/exit thats 3,
> so am I right in assuming rest of the areas could be made as one zone
> (ground front and back and ist floor back and front)?
Well, I read the comments about zones with interest, but personally
I connected one sensor/detector to each zone input, and I think I'm
running at somewhere around 16 zones for a 3 bedroom house. If
system dials out, it's rather nice to know exactly which detectors
are being triggered and in what order.
--
Andrew Gabriel
whonose
> intruder alarm is not a very difficult or complicated job, and most of
> the companies that supply the parts by mail order give lots of advice
> in their catalogues also most control panels are supplied with full
> easy to fit instructions.
Can you give me the names of some of the decent alarm manufacturers?
I'd like to contact them and get a list of their products.
Thanks.
Jag Mann
> Well, I read the comments about zones with interest, but personally
> I connected one sensor/detector to each zone input, and I think I'm
> running at somewhere around 16 zones for a 3 bedroom house. If
> system dials out, it's rather nice to know exactly which detectors
> are being triggered and in what order.
Andrew, So what kind of alarm u got, did you installed it yourself or
paid for installation, what about PIR's and Sound bombs, panic buttons,
monitoring etc, 16 zone alarm I am sure you can't walk into your loacal
B&Q and pick one up.
Thanks
colin
As repeated here, separate zones for separate detectors - particularly
PIR's. This does not give any more likelyhood of false alarms, you can tell
which detector is causing a problem though.
What detectors are you thinking of for attic / garage? Don't use simple PIR.
You need either contacts or dual technology detectors here (combined PIR /
ultrasound).
Consider linked smoke detectors into your system - never change batteries
again. Be sensible with detector choice - heat ones are better near kitchens
or in garages or a lounge with open fire. Smoke ones better near bedrooms.
Have a look at www.gardiner-technology.com excellent kit. I use the 816
range (16 zone), fairly complex to program though.
Any questions please ask - I can supply gardiner parts at cost + carriage if
you have difficulty
regards
Colin
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:95sld6$d0t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
jam...@my-deja.com
"Dave Liquorice" <new...@howhill.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:24:39 GMT, jam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Its probably going to get a quicker response from police if a
householder
> > call them than an alarm co...,
>
> Debateable. And you have the problem of false alarms and the worry
> about
> what has actually happened (if anything) if it calls you. Think very
> carefully about this, how are you going to react and feel. Especially
> if
> your a long way from the place and you know that your loved ones are
> there.
rest (and enable you to check that SWMBO remembers how to reset the
alarm/remembers the pin)
if a long way away (eg on holiday) then i can call a mate down the road
to go and reset the alarm and avoid driving the neighbours insane
>
> Too many false alarms and the police may well stop coming to your
premisis,
> full stop. Just like they do with to many false calls from a
monitored
> system.
>
alarms... from what i've heard pets are the primary cause of those and
our three rats are hardly enough to trigger a P.I.R - Three years in a
rented house with 3 zone alarm and it never went off once (Except when
i triggered it on purpose because i didnt believe it was working),
jamesey
Nick Nelson
colin wrote:
>
> My thoughts for what they are worth...
>
> As repeated here, separate zones for separate detectors - particularly
> PIR's. This does not give any more likelyhood of false alarms, you can tell
> which detector is causing a problem though.
And usually will allow you to omit that zone when
arming the system until you've sorted out the problem.
Nick
Looksy Malone
For total flexibility and easy fault finding there is only one tyupe
of system. iD. Ask at an alarm wholesalers about iD panels. ADE
make there smaller panels with iD compatibility and they are
brilliant. The larger panels allow for multiple groups, codes, etc.
Cheaper and easier to install too (a lot less cable).
Jag Mann
> Have a look at www.gardiner-technology.com excellent kit. I use the
816
> range (16 zone), fairly complex to program though.
Colin,
Had a look, it sounds good, How much is the kit including 1 panic
button, 1 internal sound bomb, external sound box, 2 Remote keypad, 2
PIR's, 5 Smoke Alarm units(3 normal, 2 heat), 25 pairs of magnetic bits
(few small ones for windows) and what is 24V PiezoStrobe used for?
I will take it that this can be hooked to a phone for a monitoring
station! Where about are you? I am in South London.
Thanks
Jag
Peter Parry
Malone) wrote:
>
>For total flexibility and easy fault finding there is only one tyupe
>of system. iD.
Also quite susceptible to EMI. Some of the trial Tetra transmitters
are causing a lot of problems with iD systems.
Jon Rouse
>Incidentally if you do go for a monitored service you might also be
>offered the choice of linked smoke detectors. Think very carefully
>about these - nice idea but if you like toast or favour conflagatory
>cooking which makes any amount of smoke or oil haze you can spend a
>lot of time getting to know your local fire crew who can get
>seriously peed off by the third or fourth visit.
With most monitored alarms the first thing the monitoring station do is to
phone the house and see if there is a reply. If there is they ask for a
keyword (in case the scrotes have answered the phone) to check if it is a
false alarm.
--
The views expressed are my own, and may not necessarily reflect those of my
employer.
Jon Rouse
>Not worth it. The discount is tiddly in relation to the alarm costs. By all
>means fit a monitored alarm but don't tell the insurance company. OK you
>won't get the discout but having the discount is *NOT* A Good Thing for the
>reasons already outlined.
IF you make a change affecting the security of your property and don't tell
your insurance company they are within their rights to refuse to pay out.
Installing an alarm is tantamount to putting up a sign saying "I've got
something worth nicking".
Ian White
>
>What detectors are you thinking of for attic / garage? Don't use simple
>PIR. You need either contacts or dual technology detectors here
>(combined PIR / ultrasound).
>
quite a small spider walks right across the sensors. (I haven't actually
tried a combined detector myself - not after having had spiders trigger
the PIR in the workshop and the ultrasonic in the car.)
A more reliable solution may be to fit two physically separated PIRs
looking at the same space, with the alarm contacts wired in parallel so
that both have to go off in order to trigger an alarm.
Ian White
Abingdon, England
Dave Plowman
Are we now expected to take you seriously since your last 5 or so posts to
the group were just childish rubbish?
--
* Elephants are the only animals that can't jump *
Jag Mann
installation is going over the tope.
I am taking my old floor out and laying new floor and the whole house
is getting double glazed in 2 weeks time, so laying cable is not a
problem to me neither is feeding cable into the glazed unit as the guys
have agreed to deliver the units one day in advance (on Friday) so it
gives me the whole weekend to drill holes and put magnetic contacts in
all windows, and doors.
If I was installing alarm unit in my house all done up, I think I will
think twice about going the route I am taking I would have probably
settled for a wireless type stuff.
As far as putting a alarm on the house shows that you have stuff worth
nicking, well I don’t keep gold or money in the house, its all my A/V
equipment I am worried about, Info about this kind of stuff in the
house can fall into wrong hands fairly quickly. (Chain of friends, or
Dodgy salesmen/builders coming in the house etc)
Cheers
colin
Think the amount of contacts you are talking about is OTT!! you would be
better with more PIRs. A contact is no use in the window, if the glass is
smashed...
2 problems with wireless stuff (you don't seem to be going this route) is:
1. Battery replacement is a pain
2. Equipment is not compatible from different manufacturers. So when your
PIR packs up in 5 years, which is discontinued, you are stuffed!!
re. alarms advertising that your house is worth burgling - I would have
thought that the great majority of housing has stuff worth nicking, alarm or
not. An alarm would say to me (if I was a thief), go next door to the house
without the alarm...
re. LED's in bell boxes, most systems I have fitted (not dummies) have LED
flashing indicators. It draws attention to the box in the dark.
re. dual technology, my mistake should be microwave not ultrasound
regards
Colin
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:95u9lp$m9l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
colin
Have mailed you direct, let me know if you don't receive it
regards
Colin
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:95u37h$gv9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jag Mann
when you are leaving the house to check all windows are locked or not,
while setting the alarm will tell me that).
Yes a PIR in the staircase and one around kitchen and lounge so even if
someone breaks the glass and gets in PIR should kick in, can't put a
PIR in workshop/garage just in case I get mouse etc.
Everything will be hardwired to the alarm, I want to stay away from
wieless stuff.
Nightjar
"Simon Avery" <SPAM.B.GO...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:9815...@f90.n255.z2.fidonet.org...
> "Nightjar" <nigh...@insertmysurname.uk.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Nightjar
>
> > N| Just as with video cameras, flashing LEDs are probably as
> > N| good as putting a notice saying DUMMY on the box.
>
> Que?
>
> I've had two bellboxes with lights (one an alternate flashing LED, one
> a slow strobe), both very much active but also a large number without
> any lights. OTOH, never used a dummy box with a LED. With the strobe-
> system, it would do a brief double-flash when it armed so you could
> check instead of listening with your ear to the door for the timeout
> to stop. (Note potential security risk with a visual "Hi, I'm armed"
> system)
Following this and similar comments, I looked around at alarm boxes in my
area. Most, particularly those on my industrial estate, are probably
professionally installed and a lot are likely to be NACOSS. None of those I
have looked at have any LEDs on them, steady or flashing. I would expect an
integral strobe, to show when the alarm has been activated especially after
the sounder has timed out, but I was not referring to that. Obviously there
are some out there with LEDs, but I have not come across them.
All my alarms are quite loud enough to hear from outside without straining,
although they do not now timeout. The latest standard, at least for
monitored alarms, is that you have to carry out some physical action from
outside the property to arm them. Typically, putting a key fob over a
sensor. After that the continuous sound stops and you get a couple of loud
bleeps, which I can hear while walking off to the next factory.
> An overt camera in a domestic situation is overkill IMO and merely
> strengthens the assumption you've got summat worth stealing.
I found one useful to discourage youths from using my garden as a shortcut.
I put a dummy one up where it looks at the gate the used to climb over and
added a PIR operated floodlight.
>
> > N| the boxes with theirs. Thieves also are likely to recognise
> > N| most boxes sold as dummy boxes - their way of living relies
> > N| on such knowledge.
>
> Indeed. Which is why I site a true bellbox pointing to the nearest
> neighbour and a dummy on the normal approach - both the same design,
> neither with a manufacturers label.
The ones on my factories are now ADT (previously they were Thorn) and they
use the same box front and rear, just some are without innards.
Colin Bignell
Andrew Gabriel
Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> writes:
>
>> Well, I read the comments about zones with interest, but personally
>> I connected one sensor/detector to each zone input, and I think I'm
>> running at somewhere around 16 zones for a 3 bedroom house. If
>> system dials out, it's rather nice to know exactly which detectors
>> are being triggered and in what order.
>
> Andrew, So what kind of alarm u got, did you installed it yourself or
http://www.comfort.org.uk/ (No connection, just a satisfied customer.)
I installed and programmed it myself. If you haven't previously done
any kind of programming, it might be a bit too complicated to setup -
this is an inevitable side effect of its tremendous programability.
It is capable of a lot of home automation tasks also, but it is
very definately an alarm with home automation added, and not a home
automation unit with an alarm as an afterthought/addon. I use a
number of further zone inputs for home automation functions, not at
all related to the alarm functions. Also, there are 8 outputs which
I use for home automation functions, and it also does X10 input and
output (which I'm not using), and IR remote control inputs and
outputs (which again I'm not using). It can be progammed from a PC
using a Windows application they provide - I bought the extra board
required for this, but actually I have never got round to connecting
it up and have programmed it from the keypads, and occasionally over
the phone.
Price wise it's more than the figures you are talking about, but it
does a lot more than you said you wanted.
> paid for installation, what about PIR's and Sound bombs, panic buttons,
> monitoring etc, 16 zone alarm I am sure you can't walk into your loacal
> B&Q and pick one up.
Probably not. I doubt any professional installers walk into their local
B&Q either. This unit is 8 zones basic, extendable to 24 zones in
the one box, and 64 zones by means of extra boxes which can be placed
a long way from the main box. Keypad(s - up to 8 I believe) are remote
from the control boxes. For PIRs, I always use dual-tech (PIR/microwave),
which are available from CPC and other places.
I've actually installed two of these systems now, and both work very
well without problems. YMMV...
--
Andrew Gabriel
Andrew Gabriel
hu...@huge.nospam.org.uk (Huge) writes:
> In article <95tsvr$chu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jam...@my-deja.com writes:
>
>>I thought the idea behind a well designed system was to get NO false
>>alarms... from what i've heard pets are the primary cause of those
>
I recall some figures given by Bill Boyd, an alarm installer who
used to provide highly valued contributions to this newsgroup a
few years back. Over a 10 year period, the number of alarms
installed in premises increased 11 fold. However, due to improvements
in alarms over that period and the standards set by the alarm
installation companies, the rate of false alarms remained constant
(which means that over that period, alarm systems got 11 times
better at not raising false alarms).
--
Andrew Gabriel
Jon Mossman
wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:25:03 GMT, Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>As others have said I think 7 zones is far too many, the less zones
>you have and the simpler you can make the installation the less
>problems you will have with false alarms etc, I did my own
>installation on my own property and have only two zones (it is a large
>5 bed house) I have only had one false alarm since fitting (about 8
>years ago) and that was due to a lightning strike and a duff battery!
>
>John.
I dont think the larger number of zones contributes to more false
alams.
If you have only 2 or 3 zones, you are faced with having more than one
sensor on a zone, if you then have a false alarm,the control panel
only identifies which zone has been triggered not which sensor.
However if you arrange the system to have 1 sensor per zone , it it
easy to identify which sensor has activated.
It's also easier to omit individual zones/ areas.
Jon Mossman
Manchester
"My views and mine alone"
Jon Rouse
>User error is the principal cause of falsing, followed by alarm faults.
Would user error lead to a false alarm? Most of the times someone has
tripped out alarm they have got to the panel to cancel it before the alarm
sounds.
Of two alarms in the middle of the night, one I think was triggered by
someone peering through the window (footprints in the garden, and perspex
window) and the other was caused by some papers falling off a heap in the
study and triggering the sensor.
Jon Rouse
>If you have only 2 or 3 zones, you are faced with having more than one
>sensor on a zone, if you then have a false alarm,the control panel
>only identifies which zone has been triggered not which sensor.
>However if you arrange the system to have 1 sensor per zone , it it
>easy to identify which sensor has activated.
>It's also easier to omit individual zones/ areas.
I think there is some confusion here in the use of the term 'zone'. I can
test each sensor on my system individually, but they can be grouped into
zones (such as upstairs and downstairs) so that you can go to the toilet at
night without triggering the downstairs alarm.
Jon Rouse
>Nonsense.
Another well-thought out response to the discussion there, Huge.
Dave Liquorice
> If loved ones are there then a quick phone call could put your mind at
> rest (and enable you to check that SWMBO remembers how to reset the
> alarm/remembers the pin)
BTDTGTS. Trouble is SWMBO had gone back to bed to feed our son and didn't
hear the phone...
> if a long way away (eg on holiday) then i can call a mate down the road
> to go and reset the alarm and avoid driving the neighbours insane
BTDTGTTS. But do you want to put your neighbours at risk from attack from a
disturbed burglar who is more intent on not getting caught than not hurting
anyone?
Dave Liquorice
> I was thinking of a contact for every opening in the window (saves time
> when you are leaving the house to check all windows are locked or not,
> while setting the alarm will tell me that).
It'll only say if the window is more or less closed not that it is locked.
Most magnetic contacts have an operating range of an 1" or so, the window
might not even be fully closed...
Dave Liquorice
> Have a look at www.gardiner-technology.com excellent kit. I use the 816
> range (16 zone), fairly complex to program though.
Their PIRs aren't rated though. Check recent thread "PIRs - How sensitive?"
over in uk.tech.electronic-security.
> Any questions please ask - I can supply gardiner parts at cost + carriage
> if you have difficulty
Is this an advert?
Matt P
news:95v3ok$q1l$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
> In article <95toib$985$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Jag Mann <jag....@bigfoot.com> writes:
> >
> >> Well, I read the comments about zones with interest, but personally
> >> I connected one sensor/detector to each zone input, and I think I'm
> >> running at somewhere around 16 zones for a 3 bedroom house. If
> >> system dials out, it's rather nice to know exactly which detectors
> >> are being triggered and in what order.
> >
> > Andrew, So what kind of alarm u got, did you installed it yourself or
>
> http://www.comfort.org.uk/ (No connection, just a satisfied customer.)
>
> I installed and programmed it myself. If you haven't previously done
> any kind of programming, it might be a bit too complicated to setup -
> this is an inevitable side effect of its tremendous programability.
I can second that, the Comfort system has got to be the most flexible and
useful alarm/home automation system around.
Matt P
Happy Comfort owner
druid2uk
<jon.rouse@(nospam)postoffice.co.uk (omit nospam to reply)> wrote:
>Installing an alarm is tantamount to putting up a sign saying "I've got
>something worth nicking".
This used to be true, but these days so many people have alarms that I
don't believe the above to be true.
John.
colin
regards
Colin
Dave Liquorice <new...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@snail.howhill.network...
Phil Addison
<nospam.co...@technologist.com> wrote:
>I would hardly say that supplying at cost is an advert...
Colin,
You are well within the charter as spelt out in the FAQ so please keep up
the useful contribution. Perhaps something in your sig to make it clearer
that you have an 'interest' would be a good idea.
Supplying at cost is indeed a bonus! Was that a one-off offer?
The FAQ says
"Company representatives (who are often valued experts) are welcome to
suggest their products where a genuine question has been asked on the
subject, but only if they answer the questions put, and should note that
planted questions will be obvious. "
--
Phil Addison
UK DIY FAQ is at http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/~ukdiy/
Dave Plowman
Phil Addison <phi...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Supplying at cost is indeed a bonus! Was that a one-off offer?
Depends how you define 'cost'.
--
* Windows will never cease *
colin
kit, where some of you may struggle. Better to promote descent kit than folk
going off to the sheds...
I do not install or supply on a full time basis, so no profit motivation -
just being helpful !!
I wouldn't like to be inundated though...
BTW, I have never had a false alarm with a Gardiner PIR
regards
Colin
Phil Addison <phi...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:BM+HOqLa96Q7L1...@4ax.com...
ne...@river-view_dot_freeserve.co.uk
>"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:95v3ok$q1l$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>>
>>
>> I installed and programmed it myself. If you haven't previously done
>> any kind of programming, it might be a bit too complicated to setup -
>> this is an inevitable side effect of its tremendous programability.
>
>I can second that, the Comfort system has got to be the most flexible and
>useful alarm/home automation system around.
And I'll third it :-) As Andrew said, if you're DIY installing, it can
take a bit of thought to do the programming neatly, but the system as
delivered basically works as a fully functional alarm, and the
documentation is very clear. Above all, support has been absolutely
superb, one of the developers has even made a couple of calls to
folks systems in the UK (from Singapore!) to diagnose odd problems
in early firmware.
Nigel
ne...@river-view_dot_freeserve.co.uk
>I dont think the larger number of zones contributes to more false
>alams.
In my case, the system has 16 zones (not all are used yet), and the
one false alarm to date (just after installation, one keyholder who
forgot the alarm was fitted...), I got a call on my mobile, heard
their progress around the hall and to the bathroom, and figured out
what was going on. The system now has an intercom link to the house
audio, so I can talk to people in the house if necessary to confirm
false alarms.
None of the above is particular paranoia, it's a combined alarm and
home controller (ie I can phone in and control heating etc), so
separate zones are useful for movement detection as well as security.
I understand current 'best practice' is one sensor per zone,
there should certainly be a separate cable from each sensor to the
control panel, and it does make it much easier to cope if one
sensor fails, or there is an intermittent fault.
Nigel
ne...@river-view_dot_freeserve.co.uk
>Dave Liquorice wrote in message ...
>
>>Not worth it. The discount is tiddly in relation to the alarm costs. By all
>>means fit a monitored alarm but don't tell the insurance company. OK you
>>won't get the discout but having the discount is *NOT* A Good Thing for the
>>reasons already outlined.
>
>IF you make a change affecting the security of your property and don't tell
>your insurance company they are within their rights to refuse to pay out.
My approach was to ask them to note that an alarm was fitted, but that
I didn't want any alarm-related discounts. They seemed quite happy with
that.
>Installing an alarm is tantamount to putting up a sign saying "I've got
>something worth nicking".
I'd disagree, with that, but the saying of "don't be the first or
last in your street with an alarm" is probably still valid.
Nigel