Extension leads, external wiring, Part P etc.
David WE Roberts
just contemplating the hassle I have at the moment running power to the
detached garage on the few occasions when I need it.
I have to run an extension lead out through the patio door (which will then
not quite close) and across the lawn/path to the garage.
Having just run some co-ax through the wall as part of a satellite
installation, I thought "Why can't I do that with an extension lead - take
the plug off, run the cable through the wall, put the plug back on and then
run the lead into the garage?"
I could then refit the plug, and plug the lead into a socket and switch on
whenever I needed power.
Granted that I would have to do a similar thing at the other end to be able
to shut the garage door.
Is this a valid thing to do as it will be a lead with a plug at one end and
a socket at the other just like a normal extension lead, just run through a
couple of walls?
Cheers
Dave R
pcb1962
A neater way to deal with the house end that I've done is this: Remove
a double socket on the inside of the wall that you want the cable to
go through. Drill through the wall behind the socket and fit an IP66
socket ( http://www.screwfix.com/prods/10562 ) on the outside wall.
You can then use 2 wires through the wall to the outside socket to
make it part of the ring, or one wire to make it a spur from the
existing socket.
robgraham
> On 6 Nov, 11:01, "David WE Roberts" <nos...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > just contemplating the hassle I have at the moment running power to the
> > detached garage on the few occasions when I need it.
>
> > I have to run an extension lead out through the patio door (which will then
> > not quite close) and across the lawn/path to the garage.
>
> > Having just run some co-ax through the wall as part of a satellite
> > installation, I thought "Why can't I do that with an extension lead - take
> > the plug off, run the cable through the wall, put the plug back on and then
> > run the lead into the garage?"
>
> > I could then refit the plug, and plug the lead into a socket and switch on
> > whenever I needed power.
>
> > Granted that I would have to do a similar thing at the other end to be able
> > to shut the garage door.
>
> > Is this a valid thing to do as it will be a lead with a plug at one end and
> > a socket at the other just like a normal extension lead, just run through a
> > couple of walls?
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Dave R
>
> A neater way to deal with the house end that I've done is this: Remove
> a double socket on the inside of the wall that you want the cable to
> go through. Drill through the wall behind the socket and fit an IP66
> You can then use 2 wires through the wall to the outside socket to
> make it part of the ring, or one wire to make it a spur from the
> existing socket.
I'd check on the rcd requirements first though - try the DIY Wiki
Rob
David WE Roberts
"pcb1962" <pe...@pandasys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31feeb4e-373e-42bd...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might fall foul
of Part P.
Martin Bonner
> I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might fall foul
> of Part P.
Well don't tell anyone then.
cynic
> > You can then use 2 wires through the wall to the outside socket to
> > make it part of the ring, or one wire to make it a spur from the
> > existing socket.
>
> I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might fall foul
>
> - Show quoted text -
Part P was devised by idiots, approved by idiots and followed by
idiots!
Ash
> Part P was devised by idiots, approved by idiots and followed by
> idiots!
Sounds like a good manifesto for a certain political party ..... <:o(
John Rumm
Not a good way to go - extension leads are not really intended for semi
permanent installation like that. There is more chance it will get
damaged if always left out. Sunlight does not always do the flex any
favours over a long period either.
>>
>> A neater way to deal with the house end that I've done is this: Remove
>> a double socket on the inside of the wall that you want the cable to
>> go through. Drill through the wall behind the socket and fit an IP66
>> socket ( http://www.screwfix.com/prods/10562 ) on the outside wall.
>> You can then use 2 wires through the wall to the outside socket to
>> make it part of the ring, or one wire to make it a spur from the
>> existing socket.
That's a better solution. If the circuit in question is not RCD
protected, then fit a RCD enabled socket. I would also check your
earthing system. I am less keen on sockets wired like this with PME
supplies.
> I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might fall
> foul of Part P.
Nope, not usually if my reading is correct.
Adding a socket to an existing circuit is ok so long as the addition is
not in a special location.
The part P general guidance says:
"g. Outdoor lighting and power installations are special installations.
Any new work in, for example, the garden or that involves crossing the
garden is notifiable."
A socket on a the outside wall does not involve "crossing the garden"
also:
"i. The installation of equipment attached to the outside wall of a
house (for example security lighting, air conditioning equipment and
radon fans) is not notifiable provided that there are no exposed outdoor
connections and the work does not involve the installation of a new
circuit or the extension of a circuit in a kitchen or special location
or associated with a special installation."
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Pete Verdon
> David WE Roberts wrote:
>> I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might fall
>> foul of Part P.
> The part P general guidance says:
>
> "g. Outdoor lighting and power installations are special installations.
> Any new work in, for example, the garden or that involves crossing the
> garden is notifiable."
>
> A socket on a the outside wall does not involve "crossing the garden"
>
> also:
>
> "i. The installation of equipment attached to the outside wall of a
> house (for example security lighting, air conditioning equipment and
> radon fans) is not notifiable provided that there are no exposed outdoor
> connections
I would have thought an exterior socket would count as "exposed outdoor
connections" - it's hard to see what else (assuming normal workmanship)
that phrase could refer to.
Pete
js.b1
<use...@verdonet.organisation.unitedkingdom.invalid> wrote:
> I would have thought an exterior socket would count as "exposed
> outdoor connections" - it's hard to see what else (assuming
> normal workmanship) that phrase could refer to.
So is a light with the cable entering from behind.
So do the kits provided by B&Q, Wickes, and so on.
If you just need power 1-2x a month spring-autumn, but not in the
rain. 1) Fit IPx6 external socket w/RCD protection or supplied from an
RCD protected circuit 2) Create decent extension lead in 1.5mm Arctic
or H07RNF (tougher) flex with BS1363/A rubber socket on the end. You
may want to fit a 13A switched fused connection unit as isolator on
the inside so you can turn off if it does rain (rather than opening a
wet but live socket with water running everywhere).
If you need it in the rain, you really need to internal 13A SFCU CW
gland, SWA of right size re 17th voltage drop (power/lights), CW gland
to waterproof socket in garage. There are issues about exporting a PME/
TN-C-S house earth if the garage is damp, any incoming services etc.
In 2006 I replaced an SWA first laid in 1984 (armour CPC crunched when
cable twisted). I actually regret doing so - firstly it saw off an
expensive bamboo & money tree which by size were £700+, secondly I
only needed it occasionally during daylight. If it failed again I
would use a Geweiss Interlock Switched 16A 230V BS4343 socket (£20)
and 2.5mm H07RNF extension to conventional 13A BS1363/A rubber socket.
BS4343 in interlock-switched solves the problem of unshuttered sockets
in domestic (can't withdraw the plug without turning power off).
BS4343 removes an irritating fuse in extension lead. I could use 32A
to permit 4mm H07RNF (albeit with 16A CPD, technically a no-no but
done for Vdrop reasons).
John Rumm
Well no more so than any other box screwed to the wall with a wire
running into the back of it - like the security light or air con unit
explicitly mentioned in the guidance notes.
I would take an exposed outside connection to mean something like a
cable join, or a glanded connection to an enclosure etc.
Pete Verdon
> Pete Verdon wrote:
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>> David WE Roberts wrote:
>>>> I thought that fitting external sockets to an internal ring might
>>>> fall foul of Part P.
>>> The part P general guidance says:
>>>
>>> "g. Outdoor lighting and power installations are special
>>> installations. Any new work in, for example, the garden or that
>>> involves crossing the garden is notifiable."
>>>
>>> A socket on a the outside wall does not involve "crossing the garden"
>>>
>>> also:
>>>
>>> "i. The installation of equipment attached to the outside wall of a
>>> house (for example security lighting, air conditioning equipment and
>>> radon fans) is not notifiable provided that there are no exposed
>>> outdoor connections
>> I would have thought an exterior socket would count as "exposed
>> outdoor connections" - it's hard to see what else (assuming normal
>> workmanship) that phrase could refer to.
> Well no more so than any other box screwed to the wall with a wire
> running into the back of it - like the security light or air con unit
> explicitly mentioned in the guidance notes.
>
> I would take an exposed outside connection to mean something like a
> cable join, or a glanded connection to an enclosure etc.
Ah, OK, I assumed it to mean the connection provided by the socket
itself, not the connection of the supply cables to it. It's a rather
poorly-drafted piece of regulation actually.
Pete
The Medway Handyman
B&Q do a really nice kit which has an outdoor socket, cable & an RCD plug.
The socket is pre wired, the other end of the cable is even trimmed to fit
the RCD plug. About �14. The instructions say it avoids Part P.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Dave Liquorice
> B&Q do a really nice kit which has an outdoor socket, cable & an RCD
> plug. The socket is pre wired, the other end of the cable is even
> trimmed to fit the RCD plug. About £14. The instructions say it avoids
> Part P.
Yep as it a plug in system rather than permenant wiring. It's a bit
of bodge is some respects but at least it is RCD protected and can be
unplugged when not in use (stops people stealing your power).
--
Cheers
Dave.
John Rumm
Poorly conceived, drafted, implemented, you name it! (you can tell I am
a fan can't you ?)
John Rumm
I expect the bulk of the folks buying something like that have never
heard of part P anyway!
The Medway Handyman
I find a lot of people are vaugely aware that 'the law has changed', but
thats it, they don't know about Part P.
js.b1
<davidl...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I find a lot of people are vaugely aware that 'the law has changed', but
> thats it, they don't know about Part P.
Does not help when everyone and their dog says "you are not allowed to
do that / anything anymore / law is SI2004". SI2004 was a disgrace in
that it gave a ridiculous gold plated screwdriver to fitters over
engineers, pure 1970s "we will strike if he picks up my screwdriver or
he picks up my spanner". In the NW the BNP-Fitters-Guild is mostly out
of control and they wonder why so many companies keep blacklists
(which makes things worse because they just go into domestic electric
& gas and milk the few customers they can get as they can until their
name/business collapses). Britain went back 30yrs.
Nothing to do with safety, portable/plug-in appliances are still a
significant problem over fixed wiring.
Had safety been the real driver it could have been made very simple
indeed:
1 - Capped fee of £50
2 - Gardens - check & test RCD protection, earthing suitable re export/
rod, cable type & sizing correct. 10mins.
3 - MEB & Supp - correct re ESQW. 5mins.
4 - Any new f.c. RCD protected - test of RCD performance. 10mins.
5 - Any generator system - correct re ESQW. 20mins.
6 - BS7671 required by all, no body-made-up-named-by-us-standards
Best people to do it would be electrical companies - garden export of
earth, MEB & Supp is of direct importance to them re ESQW, generator
is of direct importance to them re ESQW; only extra bit is checking
RCD presence & operation on any new circuit. Keeping the electrical
contractor industry out of it - or directly competing with it to
enforce competition.
Gas could have been handled similar - anyone can do anything EXCEPT
connect up, undoing the meter connection requires reset by Transco and
easy to add GSM for leak/fault/tamper anyway. Connection requires £50
inspection by gas company. Ireland has no GasSafe and no statistically
significant difference in incidents compared to the UK.
The £50 inspection fixes nothing, just indicates what is wrong & must
be fixed before connection.
Instead we have £200+ fee which is better spent on better quality
components & using RCBO in place of RCD.
F
> B&Q do a really nice kit which has an outdoor socket, cable & an RCD plug.
> The socket is pre wired, the other end of the cable is even trimmed to fit
> the RCD plug. About �14. The instructions say it avoids Part P.
Aldi have these from time-to-time with a double socket for �19.
--
F
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com> saying
something like:
>Ireland has no GasSafe
You've spouted this bollocks before.
Yes, it does. http://www.energycustomers.ie/gas/safety.aspx
John Rumm
It does now, but that is a recent change. Prior to that it had no
equivalent.
js.b1
wrote:
> "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote...
> >Ireland has no GasSafe
>
> You've spouted this bollocks before.
> Yes, it does.http://www.energycustomers.ie/gas/safety.aspx
Correction - Ireland HAD no GasSafe.
Usefully that allows a comparison in prior 5-yrs vs post 5-yrs
statistics :-)
It would be also useful if that also includes complaints, average bill
levels and so on.
If the statistics are compiled by ONS, I think we can probably ignore
them tho.
David WE Roberts
"F" <news@nowhere> wrote in message
news:mfCdnRvCaagH-WjX...@brightview.co.uk...
Thanks to everyone for their advice - this looks a lot more straightforward
than I thought.
Now to search for a 3 round pin blue socket so I can plug my camper van in
to an outside socket instead of bringing the lead in through a window to a
13 amp <-> blue socket converter :-)
Owain
> Now to search for a 3 round pin blue socket so I can plug my camper van in
> to an outside socket instead of bringing the lead in through a window to a
> 13 amp <-> blue socket converter :-)
Any electrical place will have them.
But probably not in a kit for DIY Part-Pee exempt wiring ;-)
Owain
Dave Liquorice
> But probably not in a kit for DIY Part-Pee exempt wiring ;-)
The prat P exception comes from the parts not being part of the
permenant wiring, ie plugged in.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Appin
from "David WE Roberts" <nos...@talk21.com> contains these words:
> Now to search for a 3 round pin blue socket so I can plug my camper van in
> to an outside socket instead of bringing the lead in through a window to a
> 13 amp <-> blue socket converter :-)
Toolstation or CPC
David WE Roberts
"Appin" <ap...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303036363...@zetnet.co.uk...
Just seen one in B&Q!