Drilling a Yale
NUJ
his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
drill the thing.
Any other advice appreciated.
Neal
Plus net
"Try "alt.locksmithing" newsgroup
wri...@in-depthsystems.co.uk
Works in the movies..........
"." wrote:
> Well i dont have a shady past and im assuming your not a burglar and
> that no potential or real burglars will read this but here goes...
>
> With a good stragiht edge scribe a nice vertical line so that it runs
> true and vertically,bisecting the inner circular yale lock barrel.
> Where the line crosses the outer edge of the inner round barrel at its
> top edge,carefully centre punch at this point. Get a nice SHARP drill
> and drill here,approx 5mm drill should be ok,make sure your drill
> stays vertical and at 90 degrees to the lock barrel. When you;ve
> drilled to the depth of a typical yale key,withdraw the drill and use
> an old screw driver,bang it in the drilled hole and the inner barrel
> should turn easily,,in effect you;ve drilled out all the tumblers,,
>
> evenin, all....creak
>
> regards
> joe
Nightjar
<wri...@in-depthsystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A10E858...@in-depthsystems.co.uk...
> Try using a credit card, pushed between the door frame and lock.
> Works in the movies..........
Not very good for the credit card though. Personally, I would go for a good
hard kick and a bit of woodwork afterwards.
Colin Bignell
Will Dean
> One of my lovely tenants has done a runner, he has absconded with the key
to
> his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
> door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place
to
> drill the thing.
Drill on the edge of the inner barrel, immediately above the key hole. 6mm
will be fine, and it's almost certainly brass, so it won't be difficult to
drill. You should get 5 clunks as you pass each tumbler. After that, you
can turn the barrel with a big screwdriver pushed into the key hole.
It's alarmingly quick and easy with a cordless drill...
Will
Dudley Simons
NUJ wrote:
> One of my lovely tenants has done a runner, he has absconded with the key to
> his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
> door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
> drill the thing.
>
Wapimak
<wri...@in-depthsystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A10E858...@in-depthsystems.co.uk...
Dave Plowman
<wri...@in-depthsystems.co.uk> wrote:
> Try using a credit card, pushed between the door frame and lock.
> Works in the movies..........
So does just putting your shoulder against it - after the standby chippy
has removed the screws for the hasp...
--
* If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Andy Woodward
>his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
>door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
>drill the thing.
Loid it. Get a 2 litre PET drinks bottle and cut out a big circle from it. Now
roll this up and down to press teh lock catch back (gently move the door in
and out while doing this to help it in). This is a blooody quick way of
getting in a Yale type lock and is why I ALWAYS cut a loid-catching slot in
teh catch.........
Alternatively you can force a thin knife in behind hte frame beading so it
slides straight in to force teh catch back in a similar but slightly more
destructive way (as was done by a Special Patrol Group constable in a van full
of htem that I stopped by leaping out in front of it when I locked myslef out
of my flat many years ago.......)
Also picking pin tumblers is pretty easy. The alt.locksmithing FAQ wil tell
you how to do al this stuff.
Kicking hte door in wont do a lot of damage cos it'll just pop off the
catch-socket from teh frame. A bit of filler in the screw holes and you're
away.
Andrew Gabriel
wri...@in-depthsystems.co.uk writes:
> Try using a credit card, pushed between the door frame and lock.
> Works in the movies..........
A fellow student tried this in my university hall of residence,
to get into an engineer's cupboard to reset the circuit breaker
he'd just tripped. His credit card went flying through the door
frame into the (still locked) cupboard. Strangely, no one would
lend him theirs to try again, so he could get his back :-).
--
Andrew Gabriel
Tony
breaking the door under certain circumstances. Then you could open the
door from the inside.
Tony
Richard Hankins
> Works in the movies..........
Yep - I used this method a lot at school (don't ask) - it works fine, but
not having credit cards in those days, I used bits of flexible plastic, cut
out of washing up liquid bottle IIRC......a lot depends on the gaps between
the door and the frame - if its a tight fit then this method hasn't a hope.
Richard Hankins
Martin Salter
"Nightjar" <nigh...@insertmysurname.uk.com> wrote in message
news:nB6Q5.41187$K64.3...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> > Works in the movies..........
>
good
> hard kick and a bit of woodwork afterwards.
>
Seen both of these and the hard kick is really damaging. The grrrrr
locksmith used several bits of bendy plastic slid up the door. The plastic
was much thinner than a credit card.
Will Dean
news:lwhQ5.1162$q77....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> Seen both of these and the hard kick is really damaging. The grrrrr
> locksmith used several bits of bendy plastic slid up the door. The plastic
> was much thinner than a credit card.
The original poster doesn't have a key to the door and, I presume, would be
changing the lock cylinder anyway. In this circumstance, it doesn't seem to
me to be worth messing about trying to get the door open without damaging
the lock, when it's well under a minute's work to drill it.
Will
Martin Salter
"Andy Woodward" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
> Kicking hte door in wont do a lot of damage cos it'll just pop off the
> catch-socket from teh frame. A bit of filler in the screw holes and you're
> away.
>
In my one experience its then hard to get a proper grip with the screws. And
trying a new location means moving the lock, putting a new hole in the door,
filling the old one etc. Doable but alot more hassle.
Stuart Grant
> would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
> drill the thing.
>
Stuart Grant
Charles (Joe) Stahelin
>One of my lovely tenants has done a runner, he has absconded with the key to
>his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
>drill the thing.
Try the usual tricks with flexibles such as plastic but this will not
work if the lock unless the bolt of the lock is a dead-bolt rather than
a latch-bolt.
If necessary you should drill through the barrel into which the key
fits. Starting to get the drill in may be a little difficult because
of the edges of the keyhole. I would start with a 6mm drill, keep it as
straight and central as possible and drill through whole width of the
lock. Follow by small increases in the drill diameter in the hope that,
eventually, you will be able to get the remains of the barrel out or by
some means get the bolt of the lock to slide back. You may end up
having to replace the entire lock.
Make sure you get copies of all keys where this sort of problem may
arise so that you can gain access if the tenant's key goes missing.
Once the room is open the barrel of the lock can be removed and replaced
with a barrel which does not respond to the missing key. If you have a
number of tenants it may be worthwhile to keep a spare barrel with two
keys in your toolbox so that security can be restored as soon as a key
goes astray.
--
Charles (Joe) Stahelin, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire
ian_c...@my-deja.com
Will Dean wrote:
> The original poster doesn't have a key to the door and, I presume, would be
> changing the lock cylinder anyway.
Hi Will
Perhaps the ex-tenant has left the key in the room?
IanC
Nightjar
"Martin Salter" <martin...@CUTSPAMvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:lwhQ5.1162$q77....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
>
> Seen both of these and the hard kick is really damaging.
I would not recommend it for a mortice lock or a BS rim lock, which has a
huge striker plate. However, for a basic rim lock the damage should not
affect more than about 12-15" of the frame, which is easily repaired.
Colin Bignell
Andy Woodward
..assuming teh landlord always keeps a spare key - this is what I
always do.
Thomas Prufer
<j...@stahelin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Make sure you get copies of all keys where this sort of problem may
>arise so that you can gain access if the tenant's key goes missing.
This may give rise to legal problems if the landlord has a key and
could enter without the tenants' permission in an non-emergency
situation. This has been discussed wrt the USA in alt.locksmithing.
(No idea as to applicability in the UK).
A poster to alt.locksmithing did the following (albeit as a tenant):
replaced the lock, and gave the landlord a key sealed in one of those
sticky laminating pouches with a signed card stating that it be opened
and used only in an emergency, and the tenant then be informed of this
ASAP. So the landlord can enter anytime if, say, a pipe bursts. Yet
the landlord can prove that the key *wasn't* used to to enter if, say,
something ends up stolen without obvious breaking and entering. This
does depend on the tenant handing exactly one key to the landlord, but
it is nonetheless a neat solution.
Thomas Prufer
ian_c...@my-deja.com
Thomas Prufer wrote:
> A poster to alt.locksmithing did the following (albeit as a tenant):
> replaced the lock, and gave the landlord a key sealed in one of those
> sticky laminating pouches with a signed card stating that it be opened
> and used only in an emergency, and the tenant then be informed of this
> ASAP. So the landlord can enter anytime if, say, a pipe bursts. Yet
> the landlord can prove that the key *wasn't* used to to enter if, say,
> something ends up stolen without obvious breaking and entering. This
> does depend on the tenant handing exactly one key to the landlord, but
> it is nonetheless a neat solution.
Hi
I guess you'd want to place the key between corougated cardboard or
similar(*) to prevent the holder of the spare just filing a blank to
match what he can see/feel through the envelope?
IanC
(*): Lead if said holder works with X-ray machines?
Thomas Prufer
>
>I guess you'd want to place the key between corougated cardboard or
>similar(*) to prevent the holder of the spare just filing a blank to
>match what he can see/feel through the envelope?
If you are that distrustful of your landlord, you need to get special
cylinders: There are such that can be opened with a regular key, and
also with a different emergency key. Using the emergency key (or a
copy thereof) will trip some mechanism. This could keep the key from
being withdrawn, set a telltale or something -- I'm unclear on the
details.
Likely be cheaper to buy your own flat, though.
Thomas Prufer
Frank Erskine
>One of my lovely tenants has done a runner, he has absconded with the key to
>his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
>door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
>drill the thing.
>
>
No need to drill it as such. As I'm sure you're aware, the cylinder is
held on by two screws which pass through a backplate located behind the
lock itself.
Trying not to bruise the surrounding wood too much, try to get the claw
of a hammer (or a similar "instrument") behind the cylinder. This is not
TOO difficult because of the soft(ish) escutcheon (you may have to start
with a screwdriver or cold chisel). Lever the cylinder off so that the
heads of the fixing screws are torn through the holes in the backplate.
Then simply insert a large screwdriver into the lock where the cylinder
tang passed through, twist, and the door will open!
I was shown this trick by a joiner who worked for the local authority
PWD - he regularly had to effect an entry that way.
--
Frank Erskine
Ed Sirett
Thomas Prufer wrote in message
<16q41tc5bg6ppnn50...@4ax.com>...
>On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 01:50:23 +0000, "Charles (Joe) Stahelin"
><j...@stahelin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>This may give rise to legal problems if the landlord has a key and
>could enter without the tenants' permission in an non-emergency
>situation. This has been discussed wrt the USA in alt.locksmithing.
>(No idea as to applicability in the UK).
>
Most shorthold agreements will state that the Landlord, his agents or
workmen can enter at any reasonable time to inspect, repair or maintain
the property and/or its furnishing.
Obviously good practice is to liase with the tenant first, but as often
as not they'd be out at work at any reasonable times.
Ed Sirett
Property Maintainer - North London.
Neal
Joe and Will.
Both suggested drilling the tumblers out. Took less than a minute - bit
scary really. Any yob in the coutry can get in your house in 60 seconds with
a cordless Black and Decker.
Thanks for all the lively debate.
Neal.
PS Tenant bunked off owing me Ł300 rent. If anybody ever meets a Brummie
called Steve Towner - poke him in the eye from me, thanks :-)
andy the pugh
> One of my lovely tenants has done a runner, he has absconded with the key to
> his room which is a regular Yale Rim latch style. I dont want to kick the
> door in, would somebody with a shady past like to tell me the best place to
> drill the thing.
It depends on the lock.
If the lock has one of those little widgety things under the main latchy
bit, that stop the latchy bit being pushed in when the secondary widget
is pushed in then the credit card trick won't work.
If the lock doesn't have one of those, but the credit card trick won't
work, then drill a little hole through the woodwork of the door frame in
line with the latch and use a stiff wire (or, in fact, the drill) to
push the latch back.
Hacksaw blades gerind up into nice lockpicks, but it is a bit of an art
and it has to be something you want to learn how to do.
If you want to drill the lock itself (and why not, it is scrap anyway
without the key) just go straight in where the key goes with a drill.
Don't tighten the chuck much, though, or use a torque limiting drill. If
the drill snags on a bit of tumbler and breaks off you are a bit
stuffed.
The aim of drilling a lock is to make a space into which all the
tumblers and springs can fall. Once they are all out of the way yopu can
just turn the barrel.
Alternatively, hammer a big screwdriver into the barrel and heave with a
spanner on the shank, you stand a good chance of finding enough slack in
the cylinder mounting screws to open the door.
Alternatively alternatively, if you can see the hinges, just knock the
hingepins out with a punch.
--
ap
Will Dean
news:8uv537$3la$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Joe and Will.
Great! I love the rare occasions when that happens.
> Both suggested drilling the tumblers out. Took less than a minute - bit
> scary really. Any yob in the coutry can get in your house in 60 seconds
with
> a cordless Black and Decker.
Quite. I was extremely unimpressed when a locksmith showed me how to do it.
> PS Tenant bunked off owing me Ł300 rent. If anybody ever meets a Brummie
> called Steve Towner - poke him in the eye from me, thanks :-)
I don't normally bother to ask Brummie's their names first...
<fx: ducks>
Will
Charles (Joe) Stahelin
<pru...@i-dial.de> writes
>This may give rise to legal problems if the landlord has a key and
>could enter without the tenants' permission in an non-emergency
>situation. This has been discussed wrt the USA in alt.locksmithing.
>(No idea as to applicability in the UK).
>
>replaced the lock, and gave the landlord a key sealed in one of those
>sticky laminating pouches with a signed card stating that it be opened
>and used only in an emergency, and the tenant then be informed of this
>ASAP. So the landlord can enter anytime if, say, a pipe bursts. Yet
>the landlord can prove that the key *wasn't* used to to enter if, say,
>something ends up stolen without obvious breaking and entering. This
>does depend on the tenant handing exactly one key to the landlord, but
>it is nonetheless a neat solution.
You describe the common situation in Guest Houses, Hotels and in
University accommodation; and, probably in many other situations. All
of these hold means of access to the rooms occupied by tenants. In
many situations access by the landlord or landlord's agents is not
limited to emergency situations.
How many followers of this group leave keys with neighbours and such so
that their property can be supervised when necessary - or even so that
the meters can be read in the owner's absence ?
BarrenFluffitCUTSPAM
"Thomas Prufer" <pru...@i-dial.de> wrote in message
news:16q41tc5bg6ppnn50...@4ax.com...
> >arise so that you can gain access if the tenant's key goes missing.
>
> could enter without the tenants' permission in an non-emergency
> situation. This has been discussed wrt the USA in alt.locksmithing.
> (No idea as to applicability in the UK).
In the uk most assurred shortholds have provision for emergency access.
Otherwise the landlord has to make a prior arrangement as the tenant is
entitled to "quiet enjoyment" (this is a legal term not real english) . The
keys are not part of this framework In any event an arrangement is polite
common sense.
> does depend on the tenant handing exactly one key to the landlord, but
> it is nonetheless a neat solution.
Well as the landlord actually owns the property I'm less sure.
In my experience lanlords often act as spare keyholders to let tenants in
when they've lost theirs.
Seriously though if you think the landlord is likely to steal your stuff its
time to get a new landlord !
Andy Woodward
>time to get a new landlord !
Two things.
One, you know where he lives......
Two. So the the police........
Three - You can withhold rent in retaliation and the Law makes it a bugger to
shift you.
Four - he knows these things.....
Theft by landlords is not something I'd worry much about personally.
Thomas Prufer
>And the winner is.....
>
>
>Joe and Will.
>
>Both suggested drilling the tumblers out. Took less than a minute - bit
>scary really. Any yob in the coutry can get in your house in 60 seconds with
>a cordless Black and Decker.
There are, for a price, drill-resistant cylinders. Stainless steel
fronts, hardened insets, covers that allow only a key through, things
like that. All useless unless you use a well-fastened catchplate, door
and hinges of reasonable strength etc etc. Still, if it's the door
you're behind...
Thomas Prufer
Thomas Prufer
<martin...@CUTSPAMvirgin.net> wrote:
>In the uk most assurred shortholds have provision for emergency access.
>Otherwise the landlord has to make a prior arrangement as the tenant is
>entitled to "quiet enjoyment" (this is a legal term not real english) . The
>keys are not part of this framework In any event an arrangement is polite
>common sense.
>
German law is similar. Emergency access, for instance to limit damage,
and non-emergency visits for inspection, repairs, tradesmen etc. with
reasonable prior notice.
>> does depend on the tenant handing exactly one key to the landlord, but
>> it is nonetheless a neat solution.
>
>Well as the landlord actually owns the property I'm less sure.
>In my experience lanlords often act as spare keyholders to let tenants in
>when they've lost theirs.
What I liked about it is that the landlord does have a key, and can
let you in, close the windows in a storm or whatever easily. And if
the landlord does need to enter without prior notice, he should then
tell you about it as soon as possible. The sealed key is just a
reminder. A new cylinder might be a good idea on any longer-term
accommodation, you don't want the tenant who skipped with the key
coming back...
>Seriously though if you think the landlord is likely to steal your stuff its
>time to get a new landlord !
OTOH, you might have a tenant accusing you of stealing their stuff,
and a still-sealed key is proof that the key wasn't used to open the
door.
Perhaps the whole thing is a bit paranoid, but the lot over at
alt.locksmithing are; likely an occupational hazard. Good thing too:
get sloppy with the master key for a large institution, and lot of
locks would need to be replaced, at best...
Thomas Prufer
Fruitbat
> Perhaps the whole thing is a bit paranoid, but the lot over at
> alt.locksmithing are; likely an occupational hazard. Good thing too:
> get sloppy with the master key for a large institution, and lot of
> locks would need to be replaced, at best...
Paranoid, maybe.
My front door lock has no tumblers, through choice and, it's a long
story.
I haven't been burgled for 29 years, which is going some, for Central
london.
And, before any potential thieves out there brew up an idea, my
anti-scallywag defenses are not that pathetic.
So there!
--
batty.
Martin Salter
>
> I would not recommend it for a mortice lock or a BS rim lock, which has a
> huge striker plate. However, for a basic rim lock the damage should not
> affect more than about 12-15" of the frame, which is easily repaired.
>
Yes repairing it with filler was easy but the screws that secured (technical
term: the metal bit that the rimlocks bolt engages in) then had to go back
into holes in the same weakened location. Perhaps its bodging on my part.
Charles (Joe) Stahelin
<pru...@i-dial.de> writes
>There are, for a price, drill-resistant cylinders. Stainless steel
>fronts, hardened insets, covers that allow only a key through, things
>like that. All useless unless you use a well-fastened catchplate, door
>and hinges of reasonable strength etc etc. Still, if it's the door
>you're behind...
Maybe the ease with which Yale type cylinders can be drilled out
accounts for the Insurance World's insistence on 5-lever locks to BSS
whatever it is.
Matt Gibson
j...@stahelin.demon.co.uk says...
Drilling? I can pick a lot of them in less than fifteen minutes. Some
in significantly less. Decent mortice lever locks are a heck of a lot
more difficult.
M "Yes, I know that it's a sign of a mis-spent youth" G
--
"It's the gaps between the rain that count,
and learning how to live amongst them"
-- Jeff Noon, _Pixel Juice_