ELV comms, ariels etc - how many faceplates?
Tim S
But cometh the day you have to actually chase the walls out, then any
are "too many".
Seriously...
I'm planning to put a double 13A socket about every 2m round every wall, bar
the shortest walls in some rooms. That's easy - just a long horizontal
chase with a few ups for doorways.
I'm also thinking about putting all my ELV stuff in as double euro-mod
plates above certain 13A sockets. Then two bits of wide-ish oval conduit up
to the ceiling. I'll drop the cables in later, when it becomes clearer
where we want arials, Cat5e, loud speaker wires etc. And you can get a
euromodule for just about anything.
So this is IMHO a good flexible approach and it's easy to pull and refeed a
different cable later (will be floorboards upstairs). The reason for "above
the 13A sockets" to avoid LV and ELV crossing in the same box (bad from
17th Regs, bad for interference).
I won't be flood-wiring the lot straight away. So given the only downside is
the number of backboxes I need to sink into plaster/brick, does the panel
suggest one such assembly above every 13A socket, or one every two 13A
plates? Corner positions will be a priority.
Cheers
Tim
Tim S
>... as double euro-mod plates ...
Just to clarify - double plates, so 4 euromod positions per plate
Andrew Gabriel
Tim S <t...@dionic.net> writes:
> You can never have too many.
>
> But cometh the day you have to actually chase the walls out, then any
> are "too many".
>
> Seriously...
>
> I'm planning to put a double 13A socket about every 2m round every wall, bar
> the shortest walls in some rooms. That's easy - just a long horizontal
> chase with a few ups for doorways.
The US wiring regs have a good rule in this area. Can't recall the
exact figures, but it's something along the line of you must be able
to plug in an appliance with a 6' cord positioned anywhere along the
edge of the room without the cord tailing across a doorway.
> I'm also thinking about putting all my ELV stuff in as double euro-mod
> plates above certain 13A sockets. Then two bits of wide-ish oval conduit up
> to the ceiling. I'll drop the cables in later, when it becomes clearer
> where we want arials, Cat5e, loud speaker wires etc. And you can get a
> euromodule for just about anything.
>
> So this is IMHO a good flexible approach and it's easy to pull and refeed a
> different cable later (will be floorboards upstairs). The reason for "above
> the 13A sockets" to avoid LV and ELV crossing in the same box (bad from
> 17th Regs, bad for interference).
>
> I won't be flood-wiring the lot straight away. So given the only downside is
> the number of backboxes I need to sink into plaster/brick, does the panel
> suggest one such assembly above every 13A socket, or one every two 13A
> plates? Corner positions will be a priority.
Something I did in a few places where I might want back boxes in the
future was to sink the box in, put a piece of stiff card in the front
(waterproofed with parcel tape), and then skimmed over them when
skimming the wall. It avoids having blank plates on the wall, but I
can tap that with a hammer to break out the plaster when the box is
needed. Broken out two of them so far (and none have broken out by
themselves).
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
BigWallop
"Tim S" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:49209380$0$501$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
Wouldn't it be easier to fit 3 compartment skirt or dado trunking? Then
you'd have any amount of sockets and control wiring you wanted in each room,
with very little alteration or upheaval. Or sink 3 div' metal trunk in the
walls and delivery everything through them. In the future changes you're
sure to make, the wiring can be pulled through to each fixed point with a
string.
meow...@care2.com
if youre replastering, I'd consider another option. Cat5e is very
useful but can quickly get used up, conduit space ditto, so I'd put in
conduit _and_ cat5e not in conduit. That keeps you a good amount of
space free, and the fact that the 5e isnt conduitted is a non-issue.
How often to sink boxes? I'd only put them where I specifically wanted
them, or was likely to. Whole lot of unneeded work otherwise. The main
thing is to ensure the cable is there so a socket can be put anywhere
at any future date.
I'll save the thread and incorp an idea or 2 here into the lv wiring
article later.
NT
Tim S
> In article <49209380$0$501$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
> Tim S <t...@dionic.net> writes:
>> You can never have too many.
>>
>> But cometh the day you have to actually chase the walls out, then any
>> are "too many".
>>
>> Seriously...
>>
>> I'm planning to put a double 13A socket about every 2m round every wall,
>> bar the shortest walls in some rooms. That's easy - just a long
>> horizontal chase with a few ups for doorways.
>
> The US wiring regs have a good rule in this area. Can't recall the
> exact figures, but it's something along the line of you must be able
> to plug in an appliance with a 6' cord positioned anywhere along the
> edge of the room without the cord tailing across a doorway.
Seems like a good rule of thumb.
<snip>
> Something I did in a few places where I might want back boxes in the
> future was to sink the box in, put a piece of stiff card in the front
> (waterproofed with parcel tape), and then skimmed over them when
> skimming the wall. It avoids having blank plates on the wall, but I
> can tap that with a hammer to break out the plaster when the box is
> needed. Broken out two of them so far (and none have broken out by
> themselves).
>
Now that's a good idea. Actually, I was thinking of doing this with besa
boxes in all the likely positions that anyone might want wall lights - eg
both sides of every place a bed could logically go for one. Hadn't made the
jump to doing it for comms.
Ideally, I'd have the plates on a level, but as I mentioned, I don't like
the band I and II circuits getting too close, so over and above was the
best compromise I could think of.
Cheers
Tim
Tim S
<snip>
> Wouldn't it be easier to fit 3 compartment skirt or dado trunking? Then
> you'd have any amount of sockets and control wiring you wanted in each
> room,
> with very little alteration or upheaval.
It would in an office, but I've yet to see anything that doesn't look pig
ugly.
> Or sink 3 div' metal trunk in
> the
> walls and delivery everything through them. In the future changes you're
> sure to make, the wiring can be pulled through to each fixed point with a
> string.
And skim plaster over the top? That would be an interesting idea. I could
run the comms horizontally to the corner then take a bundle up, rather than
a drop to every plate.
Do you have a link to any (google fails to oblige me, except for the plastic
stuff)?
Cheers
Tim
Tony Bryer
> Something I did in a few places where I might want back boxes
> in the future was to sink the box in, put a piece of stiff card
> in the front (waterproofed with parcel tape), and then skimmed
> over them when skimming the wall.
Back home I ran all my cables in oval conduit with long horizontal
runs (except at doorways obviously) so that at any time I could
just pull out a cable between two sockets and cut a box into the
conduit and rewire. Had to do it a couple of times - would have
been a pain of a job if the cables were plastered in solid or just
capped.
--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com
Andrew Gabriel
Tim S <t...@dionic.net> writes:
>
> Now that's a good idea. Actually, I was thinking of doing this with besa
> boxes in all the likely positions that anyone might want wall lights - eg
> both sides of every place a bed could logically go for one. Hadn't made the
> jump to doing it for comms.
Trouble with BESA boxes is that lights don't all have their mounting
screws aligned the same way. For potential wall lighting points,
I've just run trunking down the wall with the cable threaded through.
I can then cut through to them like Tony Bryer mentions for his
sockets. The cables run up and into the ceiling roses, where they are
not connected until such time as wall lights are installed.
I have left a hidden BESA box in the middle of the bathroom ceiling,
in case I ever want a light there (currently just has wall lights).
The cable runs into the back of the fan isolator switch, where it's not
connected.
> Ideally, I'd have the plates on a level, but as I mentioned, I don't like
> the band I and II circuits getting too close, so over and above was the
> best compromise I could think of.
There aren't many signals where cross interference is an issue
nowadays. Modern signalling and protocols are designed on the
assumption the data wires will be tangled up with the mains
wiring. It's somewhat ironic that IEE got fussy about it just
at the time when it ceased to matter.
BigWallop
Use "Compartment Trunking" as your search. There are a few makers /
suppliers. CableLine, Gilflex and Mita come to mind as manufacturers.
Also, standard trunking can be compartmentalised by additional inserts, so
it's worth a think about and research before committing.
Lobster
> I'm planning to put a double 13A socket about every 2m round every wall, bar
> the shortest walls in some rooms. That's easy - just a long horizontal
> chase with a few ups for doorways.
Isn't that oversimplistic? Better to consider what appliances will be
likely to be used where, and plan accordingly?
Eg, I put 3 double sockets side-by-side under my computer desk, and
already two sockets have 2-way adapters in. I could (and probably will)
do similar in the corner of the living room, for all our a/v kit. But
in the hall and landing (both of which are pretty large) there's just
one double socket each, just for the vaccuum cleaner; have never missed
not having more. Likewise down one whole wall in the living room, which
is essentially a thoroughfare - can't imagine ever needing to plug in
anything there.
David
Tim S
> Tim S wrote:
>
>> I'm planning to put a double 13A socket about every 2m round every wall,
>> bar the shortest walls in some rooms. That's easy - just a long
>> horizontal chase with a few ups for doorways.
>
> Isn't that oversimplistic? Better to consider what appliances will be
> likely to be used where, and plan accordingly?
Yes indeed - but all I wanted to do was given a general indication of socket
density. Apart from the kitchen and specific locations that can take
washing machines etc, our house doesn't have an obvious layout and even
room purposes are flexible, which means that it's likely to get turned
around several times in the next decade, especially as the kids grow up and
usage patterns change. Heck, I arranged my uni bedroom in at least 3
different ways and it was only about 9' x 7'
Wall chasing and plastering is a yuk job, but right now the house is empty,
so IMO better to spend a bit of extra time over-doing it now, because it
will be hell to do after everything's moved in.
> Eg, I put 3 double sockets side-by-side under my computer desk, and
> already two sockets have 2-way adapters in. I could (and probably will)
> do similar in the corner of the living room, for all our a/v kit. But
> in the hall and landing (both of which are pretty large) there's just
> one double socket each, just for the vaccuum cleaner; have never missed
> not having more. Likewise down one whole wall in the living room, which
> is essentially a thoroughfare - can't imagine ever needing to plug in
> anything there.
What I tend to do there is build the distribution into the cabinet (eg AV
cabinet + TV, or computer desk) and manage with a single or pair of 13A
plugs for a set of appliances.
It's the comms stuff I find one runs out of too quickly - eg: an AV point
might contain: TV arial, radio arial, sat feed, ethernet (eg MythTv box)
and a couple of loudspeaker endpoints (or more if one gets into Dolby).
It's not that I wish to wire every corner of every room with all that stuff,
that would be silly. It's more like that I want to have the empty conduit
and box on the end to accept it later. Lifting the upstairs floorboards
(they will be laid and screwed with lifting in mind) and dropping in a few
wires is OK, hacking the walls to death isn't.
Sorry if the above sounds curt, not intended and can't tell, got a bad
headache :(
Cheers
Tim
ARWadsworth
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4920c006$0$504$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> In article <4920b546$0$502$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
> Tim S <t...@dionic.net> writes:
> >
> > Now that's a good idea. Actually, I was thinking of doing this with besa
> > boxes in all the likely positions that anyone might want wall lights -
eg
> > both sides of every place a bed could logically go for one. Hadn't made
the
> > jump to doing it for comms.
>
> Trouble with BESA boxes is that lights don't all have their mounting
> screws aligned the same way. For potential wall lighting points,
> I've just run trunking down the wall with the cable threaded through.
> I can then cut through to them like Tony Bryer mentions for his
> sockets. The cables run up and into the ceiling roses, where they are
> not connected until such time as wall lights are installed.
I used architrave back boxes for cable entry points to my wall lights.
I had never thought about "overplastering" them.
Adam