Switch off at the socket?
alexander.keys1
due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
NT
The phantom power issue is much over stated. In most cases it isn't
worth getting up to switch things off.
NT
SeaWoe
wrote:
Use a rubber-tipped stick and you don't need to bend over. (For the
elderly and light-haeded)
Mike Swift
.com>, NT <meow...@care2.com> writes
Have you ever driven through most towns late at night, the shops are lit
up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
power socket.
Mike
--
Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
Yorkshire Halvard Lange
Ian
"NT" <meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
I think it depends on how old the appliance is. For example our old CRT Sony
television was using almost the same power on standby as it was when turned
on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
Mike Hall
I tend to use my foot to turn off switches. Energy efficient, saves
bending over and it keeps my big toe in shape!
Mike Hall
Bob Eager
> I think it depends on how old the appliance is. For example our old CRT
> Sony television was using almost the same power on standby as it was
> when turned on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
Interesting is our 18 month old Hotpoiunt washing machine. When it
finishes a wash, it stops and just leaves a power light on. Our old
Hotpoint used nothing more than the mains neon; the new 'electronic' one
uses (allegedly) 10 watts...
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Roger
"alexander.keys1" <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> zero!
wow, never knew that! try reading the messages posted and do
try to keep up.
DVDfever
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
All my TVs go on standby when not in use, except one. In my main room,
next to the plasma and a bit further down, is an old 26" Ferguson 4:3
TV. I only really use it when snooker's on so it sits there quite
often on mute so I watch TV on the plasma and keep an eye on the
snooker occasionally.
However, the snooker's not often on, so there's no point it being on
most of the time. Also, when in standby it just comes back on a minute
or so later for no particular reason so off it goes properly.
It's amazing that some people go, "Ooh, I'm so green that I unplug all
of my TVs, PC, Sky- whatever" but if you ask them to unplug their
fridge and freezer and nooooooooooooooooooo, they won't. Green, my
arse!
Andrew
They can't switch the power stations off overnight, so they may as
well power the 1W my TV takes to be in standby.
--
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Eric Shune
"alexander.keys1" <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
switch off and waste that warranty...na.
Halmyre
> In article <c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a-9f08-443e497e4...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups
> .com>, NT <meow2...@care2.com> writes
>
> >> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> >> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> >> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> >> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> >> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> >> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> >> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> >> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> >> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> >> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> >The phantom power issue is much over stated. In most cases it isn't
> >worth getting up to switch things off.
>
> Have you ever driven through most towns late at night, the shops are lit
> up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
> power socket.
>
I wonder what the residents of Blackpool use as a comparative
reference when they want to comment on levels of illumination?
--
Halmyre
Sofa - Spud
From years of having old TV that buzz and smell we always switch off at
the plug when we go to bed, same for the PC, various chargers etc as
well. It's a habit from years ago and the old fire safety films.
Shutting the doors to the lounge , hall etc as well.
Gordon Henderson
Indeed. See e.g.:
http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/charger/
I did the power meter thing a year or 2 ago - went round the house
meansuring everything. The only real surprise was my HP Colour Laser
printer. In it's "low-power" idle mode it's sucking 30W. That now gets
turned off. Nothing else does because it's not worth the effort.
Another eye opener is my freesat (or whatever it's called) box - that
sucks 4 watts when on, and ... 4 watts on standby too, so no point even
pushing the button on the remote. The newer ones may be better, but I bet
they suck more when on (to spin up a hard drive) and the same when off.
Gordon
PeterC
In somke cases. My TV is 0.9W; the digibox is 9W (with a PF of 0.45!) so
well worth switching off.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.
PeterC
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:19:15 +0100, Ian wrote:
>
>> I think it depends on how old the appliance is. For example our old CRT
>> Sony television was using almost the same power on standby as it was
>> when turned on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
>
> Interesting is our 18 month old Hotpoiunt washing machine. When it
> finishes a wash, it stops and just leaves a power light on. Our old
> Hotpoint used nothing more than the mains neon; the new 'electronic' one
> uses (allegedly) 10 watts...
A GF's audio stack: 0.5W w/o clock but 11W with clock - how long on an AA
cell?
Vortex4
"alexander.keys1" <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
David Mackays book is a good read on this subject:
http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c22/page_155.shtml
You can download the whole thing from here: http://www.withouthotair.com/
Ian Jackson
<0e6ea380-771d-4a2d...@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com> writes
toe. A definite H&S matter!
--
Ian
Norman Wells
So he says he can save all of 45 watts if he turns everything off instead of
leaving it on standby when he's not using it. The equivalent of a very dim
lightbulb therefore. Great!
However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat. To
keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
Paul Hyett
<alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in uk.media.tv.misc :
Congratulations - you must be the only person in the country who enjoys
reprogramming their VCR/DVD recorder every day... :p
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Brian Gaff
timers, not having a mains supply is a drawback!
Also, recent figures on accidents in the home suggest people bending over
equipment to turn off or remove plugs is a significant source of falls and
back problems.
grin.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"alexander.keys1" <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Andy Dingley
> I did the power meter thing a year or 2 ago - went round the house
> meansuring everything. The only real surprise was my HP Colour Laser
> printer. In it's "low-power" idle mode it's sucking 30W. That now gets
> turned off. Nothing else does because it's not worth the effort.
Be careful with that. Larger copiers and printers have drums that are
damaged by moisture and so contain an anti-condensation heater. It may
also not be sucking 30W continuously, just intermittently.
Zimmy
"Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W of heat
with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
Z
Norman Wells
> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
>> To keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts
>> of heat need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for
>> as much of the year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly,
>> that may be a bit cheaper if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same
>> amount of energy, so it's unlikely to have a huge impact on climate
>> change.
>
> You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
> of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
Where else do you think it goes?
Timothy Murphy
> My TV is 0.9W; the digibox is 9W (with a PF of 0.45!) so
> well worth switching off.
Perhaps manufacturers should be required to specify
standy power consumption.
I've been surprised how much difference I have found
eg between different computer monitors.
I'd also like CFL manufacturers to be required
to specify the illumination in lumens.
--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
Gordon Henderson
I did leave it for a couple of hours, just in-case it had a "deeper sleep"
mode, but didn't see any change. I only noticed it when I'd powered down
everything in my office a while back - or thought I had - heard a fan
running and traced it to the printer on the other side of the room,
even though I knew I'd not done any printing for a few days...
Not that bothered about it if it dies - it's now 6 years old and was a
freebie anyway! Good workhorse though.
Gordon
Anth
"Paul Hyett" <p...@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Fhm4yUHP...@blueyonder.co.uk...
Although Paul this is the 21st century, so hopefully stuff such as time and
date and even timed programmes should set themselves up automatically, at
least they did even on a couple of ancient Panasonic videos I've long since
discarded.
Guy Dawson
> I think it depends on how old the appliance is. For example our old CRT
> Sony television was using almost the same power on standby as it was
> when turned on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
At one stage, one of the cable TV STBs used more power when on standby
than when on!
When put into standby mode it supressed the video and audio outputs and
turned on the standby LED.
Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd
gn...@crossflight.co.uk
Dave Plowman (News)
Norman Wells <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
> > You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
> > of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
> Where else do you think it goes?
I suppose those LEDs produce some light? ;-)
--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
David Skinner
6cd791...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, alexander.keys1
@googlemail.com says...
>
> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
My parents' 1-and-a-bit-year-old TV broke down the other week. Stopped
receiving DTV and the settings menus became unavailable.
The repair man reloaded the firmware from a memory card, which fixed it.
Then he asked whether it got switched off at the mains a lot. It did -
every night. He said that that may well have been the cause of firmware
corruption and that they should leave the set on standby.
It's a Toshiba Regza something or other, if that matters.
tony sayer
<spam...@127.0.0.1> scribeth thus
>On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:54 -0700 (PDT), "alexander.keys1"
><alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>>due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>>on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>>save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>>saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>>'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>>zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>>receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>>switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>>appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
>They can't switch the power stations off overnight, so they may as
>well power the 1W my TV takes to be in standby.
I seem to remember that some hydro electric plant is powered down and
some gas fired .. but coal is rather long winded to slow down and
restart..
--
Tony Sayer
tony sayer
<ro...@harris.com> scribeth thus
See he' s some government advisor now so perhaps some sense will
prevail;)..
--
Tony Sayer
airsmoothed
That's all a standard Sky Digibox does when put into 'standby'
Man at B&Q
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:54 -0700 (PDT), "alexander.keys1"
>
> >There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> >due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> >on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> >save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> >saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> >'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> >zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> >receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> >switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> >appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> They can't switch the power stations off overnight, so they may as
> well power the 1W my TV takes to be in standby.
This time of year it's useful background heat.
MBQ
Man at B&Q
> In article <7h904rF2s3e3...@mid.individual.net>, Vortex4
> <r...@harris.com> scribeth thus
>
>
>
>
>
> >"alexander.keys1" <alexander.ke...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> >> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> >> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> >> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> >> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> >> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> >> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> >> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> >> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> >> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> >> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> >David Mackays book is a good read on this subject:
> >http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c22/page_155.shtml
>
> >You can download the whole thing from here:http://www.withouthotair.com/
>
> See he' s some government advisor now so perhaps some sense will
> prevail;)..
No, it's a clever Government ploy. Now he's "one of them" people will
assume he's contaminated and ignore or ridicule his book.
MBQ
Man at B&Q
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 at 14:43:54, alexander.keys1
Explain please. What century was your "VCR/DVD recorder" manufactured
in? Does it use wax cyclinders? You could probably save a fortune in
energy costs by replacing it with a more modern version. Almost
anything from the last 20 years or so should do.
MBQ
Zimmy
Hmm, maybe powering the standby circuitry, IR receivers, etc?
Z
NT
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 14, 10:43 pm, "alexander.keys1"
>
> <alexander.ke...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> > due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> > on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> > save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> > saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> > 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> > zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> > receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> > switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> > appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> worth getting up to switch things off.
>
> television was using almost the same power on standby as it was when turned
> on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
There's the odd one that does warrant turning off, typically something
from the 90s or 00s. But the great majority of appliances are a pretty
much a nonissue.
NT
dennis@home
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:509b1b4...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <JTIrm.95903$4f4....@newsfe11.ams2>,
> Norman Wells <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>> > You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
>> > of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
>
>> Where else do you think it goes?
>
> I suppose those LEDs produce some light? ;-)
Which then gets absorbed by the various surfaces and gets changed into what?
Mike
> On 15 Sep, 00:19, "Ian" <ian...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 14, 10:43 pm, "alexander.keys1"
>
> > <alexander.ke...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
> > > due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
> > > on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
> > > save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
> > > saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
> > > 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
> > > zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
> > > receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
> > > switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
> > > appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> > The phantom power issue is much over stated. In most cases it isn't
> > worth getting up to switch things off.
>
> > I think it depends on how old the appliance is. For example our old CRT Sony
> > television was using almost the same power on standby as it was when turned
> > on. The new LCD HD one uses just 1 watt on standby.
>
> next to the plasma and a bit further down, is an old 26" Ferguson 4:3
> TV. I only really use it when snooker's on so it sits there quite
> often on mute so I watch TV on the plasma and keep an eye on the
> snooker occasionally.
>
> However, the snooker's not often on, so there's no point it being on
> most of the time. Also, when in standby it just comes back on a minute
> or so later for no particular reason so off it goes properly.
>
> It's amazing that some people go, "Ooh, I'm so green that I unplug all
> of my TVs, PC, Sky- whatever" but if you ask them to unplug their
> fridge and freezer and nooooooooooooooooooo, they won't. Green, my
> arse!
If they did they'd have more green than they bargained for once that
mould sets in.....
Max Demian
news:h8nm5k$g0m$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> PeterC wrote:
>
>> My TV is 0.9W; the digibox is 9W (with a PF of 0.45!) so
>> well worth switching off.
>
> Perhaps manufacturers should be required to specify
> standy power consumption.
> I've been surprised how much difference I have found
> eg between different computer monitors.
They usually do these days.
But some only quote for the ultra power saving mode that has limited
capability - for example STBs not allowing RF or SCART passthrough (e.g.
Humax 9150/9300).
Some don't say what they mean by standby - for a printer does that mean that
it is visibly on but not actually printing - or just that the unit is
connected to the mains?
Hi-fi amplifiers should quote the quiescent consumption as well as the full
power consumption as they will very rarely be peaking.
--
Max Demian
Mike
wrote:
> In article <dd11dcee-9b58-4d46-899e-
> 6cd791467...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, alexander.keys1
At under 1w power consumption you'd have to leave it on for sooo long
for it to make any difference its just not even funny. I turn off
everything that I can but the TV remains on standby.
Dave Plowman (News)
<0f793ace-bf9a-4006...@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Man at B&Q <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Congratulations - you must be the only person in the country who enjoys
> > reprogramming their VCR/DVD recorder every day... :p
> Explain please. What century was your "VCR/DVD recorder" manufactured
> in? Does it use wax cyclinders? You could probably save a fortune in
> energy costs by replacing it with a more modern version. Almost
> anything from the last 20 years or so should do.
You know of a VCR etc which can do a pre-programmed recording when powered
down at the socket?
--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*
Man at B&Q
wrote:
> In article
> <0f793ace-bf9a-4006-80ad-d1c25cfb5...@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
> Man at B&Q <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Congratulations - you must be the only person in the country who enjoys
> > > reprogramming their VCR/DVD recorder every day... :p
> > Explain please. What century was your "VCR/DVD recorder" manufactured
> > in? Does it use wax cyclinders? You could probably save a fortune in
> > energy costs by replacing it with a more modern version. Almost
> > anything from the last 20 years or so should do.
>
> You know of a VCR etc which can do a pre-programmed recording when powered
> down at the socket?
>
No, do you, but that wasn't the issue anyway.
MBQ
NT
> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
> > Vortex4 wrote:
> >>news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
It is. But gas/coal etc to electric conversion isnt 100% efficient, so
although the end user uses the same amount of energy, with leccy much
more is also wasted at the power station. Then there's nuclear...
NT
Andy Burns
> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/charger/
I read that and started thinking the 5000W per person figure was a
confusion between power units and energy units, and assuming it meant
5000Wh per person per day, but I decided I'd best check the numbers
before possibly inserting foot into mouth ...
According to the International Energy Association figures for 2001
the total UK energy consumption was 262,186,000 tonnes of oil equivalent
or about 4.3 tonnes of oil per person
or 180 Gigajoules per person
so dividing by 8760 hours that *did* equate to a continuous 5.7kW per
person. Granted some of that will contribute to exported goods and
services, but equally our imports will contribute to other countries'
consumption figures so it's difficult to adjustment for that.
Still barely makes it worthwhile unplugging idle phone chargers though,
most of that power is consumed on our behalf, not directly by us.
Man at B&Q
> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:JTIrm.95903$4f4....@newsfe11.ams2...
>
>
>
> > Zimmy wrote:
> >> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
>
> >>> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat.
> >>> To keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts
> >>> of heat need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for
> >>> as much of the year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly,
> >>> that may be a bit cheaper if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same
> >>> amount of energy, so it's unlikely to have a huge impact on climate
> >>> change.
>
> >> You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
> >> of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
>
> > Where else do you think it goes?
>
> Hmm, maybe powering the standby circuitry, IR receivers, etc?
Which is ultimately turned into heat.
MBQ
Norman Wells
> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:JTIrm.95903$4f4....@newsfe11.ams2...
>> Zimmy wrote:
>>> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
>>
>>>> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of
>>>> heat. To keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra
>>>> 45 watts of heat need to be pumped out by whatever heating system
>>>> he has, for as much of the year as he needs any heating at all.
>>>> Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper if it's gas-fired, but it's
>>>> still the same amount of energy, so it's unlikely to have a huge
>>>> impact on climate change.
>>>
>>> You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
>>> of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
>>
>> Where else do you think it goes?
>>
>
> Hmm, maybe powering the standby circuitry, IR receivers, etc?
What does it do while it's doing all that, and where do you think it goes
afterwards?
larkim
> A GF's audio stack: 0.5W w/o clock but 11W with clock - how long on an AA
> cell?
> --
> Peter.
> The head of a pin will hold more angels if
> it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.
"A GF's".... - how many do you have?!
Jealously,
Matt
Max Demian
> Norman Wells <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>> > You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
>> > of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
>
>> Where else do you think it goes?
>
> I suppose those LEDs produce some light? ;-)
Which are absorbed by the walls and furniture, unless you leave your
curtains open at night.
--
Max Demian
Man at B&Q
Indeed. As the saying goes, 100% of bugger all is still bugger all.
OTOH, even just 20% of something larger like unneccessary nightime
illumination in shops may be worthwhile. i don't know the exact
figures but you see what I mean.
MBQ
Andy Burns
> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Where else do you think it goes?
>
> Hmm, maybe powering the standby circuitry, IR receivers, etc?
And where do you think it ENDS UP? Pretty much the only energy that
doesn't contribute to heating the house is the light and sound that that
makes it through the windows and walls.
dennis@home
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:509b1ed...@davenoise.co.uk...
> You know of a VCR etc which can do a pre-programmed recording when powered
> down at the socket?
A media centre PC (laptop) will do that.
They will even wakeup from hibernation and do a recording and then hibernate
again.
Zero Tolerance
<no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat. To
>keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
>need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
>year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
>if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
>unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
This is an old (and thoroughly discredited) logical error. Saving 45
watts of energy is not the same as saving 45 watts of heat. For a
start, most of that energy is expended in doing the 'work' - e.g.
lighting lights, spinning discs, and so on. Any excess heat generated
after that (unnecessary) work is done is minimal.
By your logic, if I leave a Sky+ box on standby, then the 20 watts it
spends on spinning the hard disc is converted into 20 watts of heat.
If that were true, it would turn Sky+ into a free energy machine -
which is impossible - breaking every scientific law there is.
Your 45 watts of wasted energy probably results in (I'm guessing here)
maybe 2 watts of heat. Whatever heating system you have is going to be
a FAR more efficient way of generating an equivalent amount of heat.
And considerably cheaper too.
Saving 45 watts at current electricity prices cuts about �40 a year
off your electricity bills. It's just burning money. (And, before you
even suggest it, burning five pound notes is not an efficient way of
heating your home either.)
--
pete
> Vortex4 wrote:
>> "alexander.keys1" <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:dd11dcee-9b58-4d46...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>>> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>>> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>>> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>>> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>>> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>>> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>>> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>>> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>>> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>>
>> David Mackays book is a good read on this subject:
>> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c22/page_155.shtml
>
> So he says he can save all of 45 watts if he turns everything off instead of
> leaving it on standby when he's not using it. The equivalent of a very dim
> lightbulb therefore. Great!
Which in the very next sentence he states is a saving of £45 per year. Sounds
worth having, esp. as it's savings from taxed income.
> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat. To
> keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
> need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
> year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
> if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
> unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
True, as far as it goes. However for (depending where you live & how well
insulated your house is) half the year, it's wasted heat. Plus it doesn't
contribute to the _usable_ room environment when the occupants are asleep
or out - which for a single person, or couple both working is a significant
proportion of the week.
And, the £45 you save buys you more gas heating than this wasted leccy
provides, so the saving is definitely worthwhile on a purely financial
basis, as _well_ as a social / moral position of profligate energy use.
Man at B&Q
wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:39:13 +0100, "Norman Wells"
>
> <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
> >However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat. To
> >keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
> >need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
> >year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
> >if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
> >unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
>
> This is an old (and thoroughly discredited) logical error. Saving 45
> watts of energy is not the same as saving 45 watts of heat. For a
> start, most of that energy is expended in doing the 'work' - e.g.
> lighting lights, spinning discs, and so on. Any excess heat generated
> after that (unnecessary) work is done is minimal.
>
> By your logic, if I leave a Sky+ box on standby, then the 20 watts it
> spends on spinning the hard disc is converted into 20 watts of heat.
It is.
> If that were true, it would turn Sky+ into a free energy machine -
It's taken 20W from the mains supply. How is that "free"?
> which is impossible - breaking every scientific law there is.
I think a few laws were broken when they let you loose on society.
> Your 45 watts of wasted energy probably results in (I'm guessing here)
> maybe 2 watts of heat.
What do you think happens to the other 43W?
MBQ
Norman Wells
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:39:13 +0100, "Norman Wells"
> <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat.
>> To keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts
>> of heat need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for
>> as much of the year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly,
>> that may be a bit cheaper if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same
>> amount of energy, so it's unlikely to have a huge impact on climate
>> change.
>
> This is an old (and thoroughly discredited) logical error.
Who has 'discredited' it, and where?
> Saving 45
> watts of energy is not the same as saving 45 watts of heat. For a
> start, most of that energy is expended in doing the 'work' - e.g.
> lighting lights, spinning discs, and so on. Any excess heat generated
> after that (unnecessary) work is done is minimal.
>
> By your logic, if I leave a Sky+ box on standby, then the 20 watts it
> spends on spinning the hard disc is converted into 20 watts of heat.
You're following me well so far.
> If that were true, it would turn Sky+ into a free energy machine -
> which is impossible - breaking every scientific law there is.
Why do you think it takes 20 watts of energy to keep a spinning disc
spinning?
> Your 45 watts of wasted energy probably results in (I'm guessing here)
> maybe 2 watts of heat.
You never studied any science at school, did you?
If you did, you either never got as far as the law of conservation of
energy, or never understood it if you did.
> Whatever heating system you have is going to be
> a FAR more efficient way of generating an equivalent amount of heat.
> And considerably cheaper too.
It will be somewhat more efficient, and it will be somewhat cheaper as long
as it's not electric. There are some savings to be made therefore, but not
as much as greeny-weenies think.
Man at B&Q
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:39:13 +0100, Norman Wells wrote:
> > Vortex4 wrote:
Warming an empty room will reduce heat loss from adjacent rooms so it
does have some effect.
You're also getting getting dangerously close to "is it better to
leave the heating on all the time or let the house cool down and warm
it up again" ;-)
MBQ
js.b1
- Many draw 30W continuously 24/7 literally roasting away
- If not needed overnight (10hrs say) it is 109 units or £12/yr
Getting it down to 1W gives a real world 29W saving.
#2 Worst missed energy opportunity - TV & Monitor.
- Going LCD from CRT did not save much for many people
- Moving to LED from LCD for TV & Monitor would do so.
Real possibility of a real world 29+29W saving.
#3 Some nasty LED clocks can run 9W.
- Easily replaced by LCD, some battery cost
- However with 3-4 clocks the saving does add up
Overall not difficult to get £100/yr saving or £1000 a decade towards
your heating system's depreciation.
Not worth changing a TV/Monitor - just when it fails (and they will)
the replacement can be LED (and most likely will looking 3yrs out).
Worth waiting that long anyway as backlight optics will take a while
to settle (easier with LED over CFL but still at early adopter stage).
We do not have enough uptake of heat pump technology (air to air) to
replace the millions of (radiant) gas fires out there. Most are only
50% efficient and a fair chunk of that efficiency vanishes up the
chimney dragging cold air through the house with it in voluminous
quantities. An A-A heat pump is cheaper than most fires, but not
likely to last a decade. Worse are the poor sods with "1-bar electric
fires". Warmfront for starters need sacking and a different system is
required based on consumer choice and a few inspectors rather than a
brown-overall "it creates jobs" civil servant in smoke filled room
gravy train.
pete
While true in theory at least, until you quantify the amount it, saying that
doesn't contribute anything useful to the discussion.
Owain
> There's the odd one that does warrant turning off, typically something
> from the 90s or 00s. But the great majority of appliances are a pretty
> much a nonissue.
But the great majority of my appliances *are* from the 90s or 00s. One
of my tellies is from the 70s.
I thought it was more environmentally friendly to keep using the old
stuff ...
Owain
Man at B&Q
> - Moving to LED from LCD for TV & Monitor would do so.
>
> Real possibility of a real world 29+29W saving.
Show me a lerge OLED screen that's any good. Why do you think all the
Sony ones ended up in the bargain bins?
OLED is fine for phones & the like but it's just not there yet for
anything as large as a monitor or TV.
MBQ
Man at B&Q
<shrug> Neither does your grammar, if you want to be pedantic about
it.
MBQ
No spam please
news:28a5fa87-dce4-4303...@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Sep, 23:30, Mike Swift <mike.sw...@yeton.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a-9f08-443e497e4...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups
>> .com>, NT <meow2...@care2.com> writes
>>
>> >> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>> >> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>> >> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>> >> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>> >> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>> >> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>> >> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>> >> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>> >> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>> >> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>>
>> >worth getting up to switch things off.
>>
>> up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
>> power socket.
>>
>
> I wonder what the residents of Blackpool use as a comparative
> reference when they want to comment on levels of illumination?
>
> --
> Halmyre
Las Vegas?
PeterC
> I did the power meter thing a year or 2 ago - went round the house
> meansuring everything. The only real surprise was my HP Colour Laser
> printer. In it's "low-power" idle mode it's sucking 30W. That now gets
> turned off.
My old HP5N took 45s from standby or 45s from On - I didn't bother to
measure it as there was no advantage in it being on, but I'd guess it was
about the same.
tim.....
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xphvUbES...@bancom.co.uk...
> In article <ou6ua592i2lkjrn3g...@4ax.com>, Andrew
> <spam...@127.0.0.1> scribeth thus
>>On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:54 -0700 (PDT), "alexander.keys1"
>><alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>>>due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>>>on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>>>save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>>>saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>>>'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>>>zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>>>receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>>>switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>>>appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>>
>>well power the 1W my TV takes to be in standby.
>
> I seem to remember that some hydro electric plant is powered down and
> some gas fired .. but coal is rather long winded to slow down and
> restart..
They use the spare overnight power to pump the water back up in a stored
hydro power station so that it's full in the morning when everyone turns
their kettles on, so it isn't wasted.
tim
PeterC
> In article <dd11dcee-9b58-4d46-899e-
> 6cd791...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, alexander.keys1
> @googlemail.com says...
>>
>> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>
> My parents' 1-and-a-bit-year-old TV broke down the other week. Stopped
> receiving DTV and the settings menus became unavailable.
>
> The repair man reloaded the firmware from a memory card, which fixed it.
> Then he asked whether it got switched off at the mains a lot. It did -
> every night. He said that that may well have been the cause of firmware
> corruption and that they should leave the set on standby.
>
> It's a Toshiba Regza something or other, if that matters.
Ah, got one of those here (not mine but some friends staying here for a few
weeks wanted a new TV so we're using theirs) and it's switched off most of
the time.
Difference is, it's not using the Freeview decoder as my arial isn't good
enough (gets ITV etc. but not BBC), so we haven't noticed anything wrong
with DTV. It's only 2 months old so might have been modified since a year
or so ago.
Steve Thackery
> long as it's not electric. There are some savings to be made therefore,
> but not as much as greeny-weenies think.
As has been said, ZT, all energy coming into your home ends up as heat,
which for maybe seven months of the year is actually desirable.
Switching off your 45W of standby power just means your central heating
system has to deliver 45W more heat to keep the room stat clicked off, so
you don't gain anything. None of this breaks any laws of physics: it's all
about conservation of energy.
You may argue that 45W from your gas supply is environmentally "greener"
than 45W from your electricity supply, which is probably true but it's a
close call. And, of course, we agree that during the summer months that 45W
leakage into your home is actually undesirable, because you're already warm
enough.
Clearly, then, there will be savings by switching to off rather than to
standby, but the crucial point is that these savings are *much* less than
the green pundits claim, and are almost not savings at all during the winter
months.
SteveT
Ian
"David Skinner" <drsk...@ntlworldERASETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.251974519...@news.individual.net...
> In article <dd11dcee-9b58-4d46-899e-
>
>
> My parents' 1-and-a-bit-year-old TV broke down the other week. Stopped
> receiving DTV and the settings menus became unavailable.
>
> The repair man reloaded the firmware from a memory card, which fixed it.
> Then he asked whether it got switched off at the mains a lot. It did -
> every night. He said that that may well have been the cause of firmware
> corruption and that they should leave the set on standby.
>
> It's a Toshiba Regza something or other, if that matters.
Mr repair man is talking rubbish to get out of telling you what the real
problem was. When I first went on cable tv the installation guy from Nynex
(as it was then; later C&W then NTL and finally Virgin Media) wanted the STB
left permanently on standby so they could send messages to the television.
Now it gets turned off whenever I am out and overnight and, apart from it
taking a minute to settle down when first switched back on, there are no
problems.
John Rumm
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:39:13 +0100, "Norman Wells"
> <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat. To
>> keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
>> need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
>> year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
>> if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
>> unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
>
> This is an old (and thoroughly discredited) logical error. Saving 45
> watts of energy is not the same as saving 45 watts of heat. For a
Probably easier if you think in terms of energy rather than power. So If
you "consume" 100J less electrical power, then by an large you reduce
the heat input into the house by 100J.
Looking from the other direction the picture may be a little different
in the sense that delivering those 100J to you will also use some energy.
> start, most of that energy is expended in doing the 'work' - e.g.
> lighting lights, spinning discs, and so on. Any excess heat generated
> after that (unnecessary) work is done is minimal.
Lets take your hard drive for an example. Most of the energy it consumes
will be radiated as heat - each of the components and "wires" in the
circuit will dissipate a certain amount of energy. The motor will lose
some in resistive losses of its windings. The only energy not
immediately converted to heat is that which escapes as noise or
vibration, and that which is stored in the spinning disc. However there
its only stored temporarily. Ultimately is a;; lost through bearing
friction to heat.
> By your logic, if I leave a Sky+ box on standby, then the 20 watts it
> spends on spinning the hard disc is converted into 20 watts of heat.
yup, that is indeed what happens.
> If that were true, it would turn Sky+ into a free energy machine -
> which is impossible - breaking every scientific law there is.
Er, no - you put 20J into it every second, and 20J comes out of it every
second (on average - there will be some lags or phase shifts - the the
overall picture is the same)
> Your 45 watts of wasted energy probably results in (I'm guessing here)
> maybe 2 watts of heat. Whatever heating system you have is going to be
Not quite. An electronic appliance consuming energy at a rate of 45W
will be heating the room at something very close to 45W as well.
By your argument, the device would be *storing* 43J of energy every
second indefinitely. That means its temperature must be rising
continuously. Which in itself also does not make sense.
What does happen, is its rate of heat loss (which will be proportional
to its temperature differential to its surroundings) would also be
increasing - and there will come a point (a temperature) where the heat
(i.e. energy) loss is exactly matching the energy gain from the mains.
Thus steady state is achieved.
> a FAR more efficient way of generating an equivalent amount of heat.
> And considerably cheaper too.
Well there is some logic there - burning gas to heat your home will
probably be about a third to a quarter of the price of burning it in a
power station, and you then heating electrically. There are less
transmission losses.
> Saving 45 watts at current electricity prices cuts about �40 a year
> off your electricity bills. It's just burning money. (And, before you
Not exactly - see above...
> even suggest it, burning five pound notes is not an efficient way of
> heating your home either.)
I would agree there.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
David Skinner
says...
> Mr repair man is talking rubbish to get out of telling you what the real
> problem was. When I first went on cable tv the installation guy from Nynex
> (as it was then; later C&W then NTL and finally Virgin Media) wanted the STB
> left permanently on standby so they could send messages to the television.
> Now it gets turned off whenever I am out and overnight and, apart from it
> taking a minute to settle down when first switched back on, there are no
> problems.
I would suspect so too, except that another symptom of the failure was
that a green LED on the front of the TV stayed-on for a long time
whenever the TV was put into standby. Googling this suggested that the
LED indicated that the TV was trying to update.
What, exactly, it was trying to update, I dunno, but if it was trying to
update Freeview channels or firmware version when someone turned it off
at the plug, I can see how that could corrupt something.
John Rumm
> Probably easier if you think in terms of energy rather than power. So If
> you "consume" 100J less electrical power, then by an large you reduce
make that "energy"-------------------^^^^^
;-)
Ian Jackson
<ian...@ntlworld.com> writes
They wouldn't be sending messages to the TV. They would be sending
messages to the STB.
Assuming you're talking about the old analogue STB, it was common
practice (indeed often necessary) to send information about frequencies,
displayed channel numbers, pay services etc (not unlike the various
changes and updates which go on for off-air DTT). Most of these changes
were sent continuously (cycling through the data 24/24) and, in large
cable TV systems, it could take several hours between one update and the
next.
If a STB was totally switched off when not in use, it was not uncommon
for it to miss the latest data - especially if it was addressed to that
particular unit. This was particularly important for new installations
which, when first installed, might not be authorised to receive all the
services requested by the customer. This often resulted in an
essentially un-necessary call to the customer services department, who
would have to do a manual re-send of the data applicable to that STB.
Depending on the workload etc, this could take some time, during which
the customer might again have totally switched off the STB (or might be,
say, be at work, having home with the STB switched-off).
As a result, the customer services people were sometimes led a merry
dance and, despite their best efforts, the customer became more and more
dissatisfied with the apparent lack of service! Hence the request from
the installation guy to leave the STB at least in standby.
--
Ian
Fred X
<flashgord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 14 Sep, 23:30, Mike Swift <mike.sw...@yeton.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <c7cd6d8f-8940-4f3a-9f08-443e497e4...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups
>> .com>, NT <meow2...@care2.com> writes
>>
>> >> There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>> >> due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>> >> on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>> >> save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>> >> saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>> >> 'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>> >> zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>> >> receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>> >> switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>> >> appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>>
>> >The phantom power issue is much over stated. In most cases it isn't
>> >worth getting up to switch things off.
>>
>> Have you ever driven through most towns late at night, the shops are lit
>> up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
>> power socket.
>>
>
> I wonder what the residents of Blackpool use as a comparative
> reference when they want to comment on levels of illumination?
>
A floodlight football pitch with a double decker bus on it that has come
from Wales?
Fred X
J G Miller
> "Halmyre" <flashgord...@yahoo.com> asked in message
> news:28a5fa87-dce4-4303...@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I wonder what the residents of Blackpool use as a comparative reference
>> when they want to comment on levels of illumination?
>
> Las Vegas?
My exact same thoughts. Some facts and figures at
<http://green.thefuntimesguide.COM/2007/04/las_vegas_energy_use.php>
Is it not the case that without the Hoover Dam, the bright lights of
Las Vegas would not be possible?
Man at B&Q
> "David Skinner" <drskin...@ntlworldERASETHIS.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.251974519...@news.individual.net...
>
> > In article <dd11dcee-9b58-4d46-899e-
>
> > My parents' 1-and-a-bit-year-old TV broke down the other week. Stopped
> > receiving DTV and the settings menus became unavailable.
>
> > The repair man reloaded the firmware from a memory card, which fixed it.
> > Then he asked whether it got switched off at the mains a lot. It did -
> > every night. He said that that may well have been the cause of firmware
> > corruption and that they should leave the set on standby.
>
> > It's a Toshiba Regza something or other, if that matters.
>
> Mr repair man is talking rubbish to get out of telling you what the real
> problem was.
What is the real problem, then?
MBQ
Zimmy
"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:322bebb5-d2f1-4764...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 15, 11:16 am, "Zimmy" <z...@y.x> wrote:
>> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:JTIrm.95903$4f4....@newsfe11.ams2...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Zimmy wrote:
>> >> "Norman Wells" <no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >>news:ZoIrm.143737$LX3....@newsfe17.ams2...
>>
>> >>> However, he ignores the fact that he's also losing 45 watts of heat.
>> >>> To keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts
>> >>> of heat need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for
>> >>> as much of the year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly,
>> >>> that may be a bit cheaper if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same
>> >>> amount of energy, so it's unlikely to have a huge impact on climate
>> >>> change.
>>
>> >> You are assuming that those 45W of electricity are converted to 45W
>> >> of heat with 100% efficiency which is clearly not true.
>>
>> > Where else do you think it goes?
>>
>> Hmm, maybe powering the standby circuitry, IR receivers, etc?
>
> Which is ultimately turned into heat.
OK! Thanks to all who put me straight. Ultimately, yes it ends up as heat,
but its an expensive way to heat your house. I think I'll be sticking to gas
CH instead of filling my rooms with wall-warts. :-)
Z
oldhe...@googlemail.com
>
> Have you ever driven through most towns late at night, the shops are lit
> up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
> power socket.
>
> Mike
It's not just town and city centres. Our local councillors are
trumpeting about their reaction to a suggestion that a tree in the
area be lit up at night. They think they've triumphed by providing
different coloured lights on the tree according to the season. The
formal switching on was the other night.
We've just completed a questionnaire put out by the council about
saving power and telling us to save money by turning down the heating
by one degree. We can't, it won't go any lower than 10C. Yet they've
spent our money on the installation of these lights as well as the
running costs.
You can tell that I'm not pleased ...
Mary
>
> --
> Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
> Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
> Yorkshire Halvard Lange
ARWadsworth
<oldhe...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:53b6374f-df91-4f64...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On 14 Sep, 23:30, Mike Swift <mike.sw...@yeton.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Have you ever driven through most towns late at night, the shops are lit
> up like Blackpool illuminations, and they want us to switch off at the
> power socket.
>
> Mike
It's not just town and city centres. Our local councillors are
trumpeting about their reaction to a suggestion that a tree in the
area be lit up at night.
Well they are sort of half right. It would be a complete waste of energy to
light it up in the daytime.
Adam
Tim S
> It's not just town and city centres. Our local councillors are
> trumpeting about their reaction to a suggestion that a tree in the
> area be lit up at night. They think they've triumphed by providing
> different coloured lights on the tree according to the season. The
> formal switching on was the other night.
>
> We've just completed a questionnaire put out by the council about
> saving power and telling us to save money by turning down the heating
> by one degree. We can't, it won't go any lower than 10C.
How do you live at 10C? I can see 15C with a wooly jumper, but 10C is pretty
chilly.
> Yet they've
> spent our money on the installation of these lights as well as the
> running costs.
>
> You can tell that I'm not pleased ...
It's the job of councils to do dipweed inconsistent things. Read more
Dilbert - it will help you to mentally adjust!
I wish they'd just build some bl**dy nukes so we can get back to worrying
about world hunger and terrorism instead of debating reducing global
warming by 90% of 8% of 1ppm or whatever... Cynical - moi?
David Taylor
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:39:13 +0100, "Norman Wells"
><no-...@myarl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>keep his house at exactly the same temperature, an extra 45 watts of heat
>>need to be pumped out by whatever heating system he has, for as much of the
>>year as he needs any heating at all. Admittedly, that may be a bit cheaper
>>if it's gas-fired, but it's still the same amount of energy, so it's
>>unlikely to have a huge impact on climate change.
>
> watts of energy is not the same as saving 45 watts of heat. For a
> lighting lights, spinning discs, and so on. Any excess heat generated
> after that (unnecessary) work is done is minimal.
>
> spends on spinning the hard disc is converted into 20 watts of heat.
It is, through vibrations and friction in the bearings.
> If that were true, it would turn Sky+ into a free energy machine -
It would not.
> which is impossible - breaking every scientific law there is.
No, it would not.
--
David Taylor
The Medway Handyman
> On Sep 15, 11:28 am, Andy Burns <usenet.aug2...@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/09/09 08:54, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/charger/
>>
>> I read that and started thinking the 5000W per person figure was a
>> confusion between power units and energy units, and assuming it meant
>> 5000Wh per person per day, but I decided I'd best check the numbers
>> before possibly inserting foot into mouth ...
>>
>> According to the International Energy Association figures for 2001
>> the total UK energy consumption was 262,186,000 tonnes of oil
>> equivalent
>>
>> or about 4.3 tonnes of oil per person
>>
>> or 180 Gigajoules per person
>>
>> so dividing by 8760 hours that *did* equate to a continuous 5.7kW per
>> person. Granted some of that will contribute to exported goods and
>> services, but equally our imports will contribute to other countries'
>> consumption figures so it's difficult to adjustment for that.
>>
>> Still barely makes it worthwhile unplugging idle phone chargers
>> though, most of that power is consumed on our behalf, not directly
>> by us.
>
> Indeed. As the saying goes, 100% of bugger all is still bugger all.
> OTOH, even just 20% of something larger like unneccessary nightime
> illumination in shops may be worthwhile. i don't know the exact
> figures but you see what I mean.
I think the retailers would take the view that illuminated shops are less
likely to be burgled/vandalised. There is an energy cost in dealing with
crime.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Peter Duncanson
Quite. Scientific laws would be broken if energy went into a box of
electronics (from the mains connection or a battery) and did not come
out in some form: heat, light, sound, whatever.
--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
Shaun
<alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
This energy isn't wasted. Its given off as heat, which is quite useful
in a domestic house.
Dave Plowman (News)
dennis@home <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
> > You know of a VCR etc which can do a pre-programmed recording when
> > powered down at the socket?
> A media centre PC (laptop) will do that. They will even wakeup from
> hibernation and do a recording and then hibernate again.
Great. So a laptop uses a battery to achieve this. Very energy efficient.
--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Col
"DVDfever" <pick...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:6605f746-f8b6-44fa...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Sep, 00:19, "Ian" <ian...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's amazing that some people go, "Ooh, I'm so green that I unplug all
> of my TVs, PC, Sky- whatever" but if you ask them to unplug their
> fridge and freezer and nooooooooooooooooooo, they won't. Green, my
> arse!
Don't unplug their fridge & freezer?
Gosh, I wonder why that might be?
Col
Dave Plowman (News)
<17c4e054-5fb8-4f8c...@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Nice try - but such things don't exist.
--
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.
Doctor D
>
>> Yet they've
>> spent our money on the installation of these lights as well as the
>> running costs.
>>
>> You can tell that I'm not pleased ...
>
> It's the job of councils to do dipweed inconsistent things. Read more
> Dilbert - it will help you to mentally adjust!
Most council employees I know believe Dilbert is the inspiration for their
managers and the councillors!
charles
Col <reddw...@btinternet.com> wrote:
they might not want green coloured food?
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
Stephen
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:xphvUbES...@bancom.co.uk...
>> In article <ou6ua592i2lkjrn3g...@4ax.com>, Andrew
>> <spam...@127.0.0.1> scribeth thus
>>>On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:54 -0700 (PDT), "alexander.keys1"
>>><alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>There have been a lot of comments recently about the waste of energy
>>>>due to appliances being left on standby, and various gizmo's that are
>>>>on offer to turn them off automatically, or otherwise purporting to
>>>>save energy. What everybody seems to be forgetting is that an energy-
>>>>saving device comes with most UK socket outlets, it's called a
>>>>'switch', and when put into the 'off' position, power cosumption is
>>>>zero! None of my appliances, including computers, digital TV
>>>>receivers, etc. have come to harm through this practice, I always
>>>>switch off at the wall, back in the day when there were fewer
>>>>appliances this was standard procedure to avoid fire risk.
>>>
>>>They can't switch the power stations off overnight, so they may as
>>>well power the 1W my TV takes to be in standby.
>>
>> I seem to remember that some hydro electric plant is powered down and
>> some gas fired .. but coal is rather long winded to slow down and
>> restart..
basically anything that is high power and heat driven doesnt
appreciate lots of heating up and cooling down.
used to be some of the really big generators needed to be left
spinning while cooling off......
>
>They use the spare overnight power to pump the water back up in a stored
>hydro power station so that it's full in the morning when everyone turns
>their kettles on, so it isn't wasted.
except you only get back maybe 75% of what you put into the pumping
during generation.
And then you lose some more pushing all the power to N Wales and
getting it back again to somewhere useful.
>
>tim
>
>
--
Regards
stephe...@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl
Col
"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:509b47b8...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
No shit, Sherlock!
Col
Dave Liquorice
>> - Moving to LED from LCD for TV & Monitor would do so.
>
> Nice try - but such things don't exist.
They do but the LED is the backlight source to an LCD screen. The
marketing is not being 100% accurate as always.
Or he could be refering to the LED advertising boards or screens
found at many sporting (and other) venues these days. Resolution
would be a bit low for the average living room though. Triad pitch is
around 15mm...
--
Cheers
Dave.
oldhe...@googlemail.com
> oldhenw...@googlemail.com coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
...
> > We've just completed a questionnaire put out by the council about
> > saving power and telling us to save money by turning down the heating
> > by one degree. We can't, it won't go any lower than 10C.
>
> How do you live at 10C? I can see 15C with a wooly jumper, but 10C is pretty
> chilly.
I didn't say that we did live at 10C, the house must be warm enough
most of the time for the heating not to come on. We're healthy, we're
moving most of the time, we cook, we're well insulated (the house as
well as us although we've only gone into jeans instead of shorts in
the last few days) ... we find other people's houses far too warm for
comfort. But nobody has said our house is cold and they keep
coming :-)
>
> > Yet they've
> > spent our money on the installation of these lights as well as the
> > running costs.
>
> > You can tell that I'm not pleased ...
>
> It's the job of councils to do dipweed inconsistent things.
That's not why they're elected.
>
> I wish they'd just build some bl**dy nukes so we can get back to worrying
> about world hunger and terrorism instead of debating reducing global
> warming by 90% of 8% of 1ppm or whatever... Cynical - moi?
I have nothing against nuclear power stations, I just think that most
people use far more power than they need. Why does everything need a
motor?
Mary
R. Mark Clayton
"DVDfever" <pick...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:6605f746-f8b6-44fa...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
> of my TVs, PC, Sky- whatever" but if you ask them to unplug their
> fridge and freezer and nooooooooooooooooooo, they won't. Green, my
> arse!
My ex boss bought some frozen sea food from a shop in Portugal that turned
their freezers off overnight. His family were very ill, prompting him to
discover why...
Tim S
Certainly been the inspiration for every employer I've worked for, bar the
last one, who were *very* unusual in their sensibleness.
But as that includes several universities and the civil service, it is to be
expected. The Dilbert effect seemed to start one manager above my own
manager (who was generally good) and get exponentially worse upwards.
The more the upper management espoused notions of being more corporate, the
more stupid it got.
It's no surprise to me that Britain's in the state it's in - we do simply
breed the some of the most incompetant managers in the world, but without
the joy of long lunches like the French, and knowing how to have a good
time like the Italians.
I'd love to read a treatise on why that may be...
Tim
Tim S
I worry about my kids. Had the fan heater on today to drive out the damp
from where I was working. Kids closed the door (something about my electric
drill - whiners...) so 3kW baked their room for about 1/2 hour before I
realised. By the time I noticed, it must have been 25C+. "Just right" was
my 5 year old's opinion on the temperature. Need to train them more...
Andy Champ
>
> How do you live at 10C? I can see 15C with a wooly jumper, but 10C is pretty
> chilly.
>
She answered that earlier. She bakes lots of cakes, and mixes them all
with a wooden spoon!
Andy
Tim S
Then sits in front of a hot oven baking them.
Then eats the yummy hot cakes.
OK - I can go along with that....
Steve Thackery
OK, but do you really want a drab, dreary, joyless world where nobody
celebrates anything in case it generates some CO2? Where we leave our homes
unheated?
Do you really want every fountain switched off? Christmas trees with no
lights? Every light in every city switched off, apart from basic street
lights?
Should we close down the cinemas, the museums and the art galleries? They
generate CO2, you know.
Do you want to live in the 18th century (but without any coal, of course)?
I hate the very thought of such a drab world, I'll tell you that for sure.
SteveT