Electric shocks-How long to wait before you call an electrician
ARWadsworth
I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric shocks off
her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts) when pluged into
one particular double socket in the kitchen. She even got a shock off them
when the switch on the socket was turned off.
I tried a socket tester. It showed L N reversal.
I tried my second socket tester (I keep one in my tool box and one my test
case, different makes). That also said L N reverse.
I plugged in my proper test meter (a Di-log 9083P) That just flashed L-Pe
and L-N and would not perform a test.
The actual problem was not a L N reversal but NO earth at the socket and the
earth was shorted to the live. The CPC at the socket is somehow disconnected
from the CU earth busbar (>200Mohm) I suspect that there is a junction box
under the tiled floor. It is the only socket on the circuit that is not part
of the ring.
She has received shocks from this socket since she moved in 2 years ago and
only called me as she had a baby 2 weeks ago and the health visitor got a
shock when using the kettle and told her to call someone.
That is scary. Two years worth of 230V live lumps of metal sat on a kitchen
worktop.
She is only alive due to good luck IMHO.
Adam
Tim S
Does make you wonder.
Glad it was not technically a Darwin award after all (but could so easily
have been).
Slider
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
So, you think that the earth is disconnected in a JB under the floor? How
did you sort it?
Roger Mills
ARWadsworth <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Indeed. So how - if at all - did you fix it?
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Archie
"Tim S" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:49f985c9$0$517$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
But now the Stupid Gene has been passed on to her baby.
Tim S
I think, to be fair, stupidity is partly a result of our society and
education.
People don't have father who do things themselves so much, people are busier
so tend to get a man in for everything beyond nailing a picture up and I
doubt chemistry lessons involve making low to medium grade explosives
(unlike Johnny Gardner's "Christmas specials" bless him).
And TV house makeover programs focus on babbling presenters and people's
follies rather than how to actually do stuff.
Barry Bucknall might have given us hardboarded everything, but at least he
showed you how to use your tool with pride.
Archie
> .. but at least he showed you how to use your tool with pride.
I must have missed that ;-)
Steve Firth
> I think, to be fair, stupidity is partly a result of our society and
> education.
I don't think that's at all accurate. There are a few scholarly studies
of stupidity, they go back to the 1930s. The common conclusion is that
stupidity is with is now and has always been with us.
Steve Firth
> She has received shocks from this socket since she moved in 2 years ago and
> only called me as she had a baby 2 weeks ago and the health visitor got a
> shock when using the kettle and told her to call someone.
>
> That is scary. Two years worth of 230V live lumps of metal sat on a kitchen
> worktop.
>
> She is only alive due to good luck IMHO.
I saw something similar back in the 70s. A friend got electric shocks
off the cooker, they were mild and they seemed to think this was normal.
Apparently this occured for months. Then the dog sniffed the cooker and
screamed the place down. And the fried discovered that touching the
cooker led to a painful shock. They stopped using the cooker but refused
to get an electrician in to look at it. The cooker was only a couple of
years old and I was puzzled by someone who would pay thousands for a
cooker then just ignore it.
Eventually persistent nagging by friends made them get an electrician
in, who had a heck of a job tracing the fault. It turned out to be rats.
A rat had chewed through the cable cutting through the earth and
exposing the live conductor. Then the rat seemed to have managed to bend
the earth leading to the cooker so that it was just touching the live
conductor. The earth leading back to the consumer unit was completely
severed. This had happened in a void and took some time to diagnose
because there was no obvious cause elsewhere.
Man at B&Q
And preserved all that lovelly panelling under the hardboard. Clever
guy actually!
MBQ
ARWadsworth
"Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:75tfngF...@mid.individual.net...
I checked all the other sockets on the ring. They were all on the ring with
no spurs from them.
The dodgy socket had clearly been added at a later date than the original
installation. The socket was the only one that was a spur. That is why I
think there is a JB under the floor.
Also
1) It had white PVC T&E not grey PVC like the rest of the house
2) I could see marks in the plaster below the kitchen worktop that showed
where the cable had been filled with pollyfiller and then painted over.
As the CPC at the dodgy socket is >200Mohm at 500V to the earth busbar in
the CU I decided to terminate the cable coming up from the floor to this
socket with a surface mounted JB. I dug some the cable from the wall to
expose it. I then cut the cable and terminated the live end in a JB. This is
below the work surface and so not visible
I then took a spur from the socket behind the washing machine and ran a new
cable under the kitchen units and added another surface mounted JB to the
non live end of the cable that I had cut to repower the socket without
damaging the tiles.
Far from ideal. It leaves a JB with a L E short that I have no way of
knowing where it comes from. As long as the Megger says the CPC is not in
contact with the CU earth busbar there is little else I can do apart from
ripping the tiled floor up. There is no chance of that happening.
Adam
george (dicegeorge)
>
> Far from ideal. It leaves a JB with a L E short that I have no way of
> knowing where it comes from.
You should leave a note on paper in the dodgy JB
telling people who may uncover it in the future that it is dodgy.
But cant you discover which fuse in the consumer unit powers it
by removing them one by one?
[g]
ARWadsworth
"george (dicegeorge)" <diceg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gtc6jn$1l4h$1...@energise.enta.net...
>
>>
>> Far from ideal. It leaves a JB with a L E short that I have no way of
>> knowing where it comes from.
>
> You should leave a note on paper in the dodgy JB
> telling people who may uncover it in the future that it is dodgy.
It is noted on the certificate I issued.
> But cant you discover which fuse in the consumer unit powers it
> by removing them one by one?
The downstairs sockets. It is not a radial from the CU:-) Dodgey JB work
under the floorboards on that ring it most likely to blame.
Adam
John Rumm
> But now the Stupid Gene has been passed on to her baby.
Depends on if stupidity is a recessive trait or not ;-)
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Scott M
Steve Firth wrote:
> And the fried discovered...
Paging Dr Freud! Dr Freud to uk.d-i-y, please!
--
Scott
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
whisky-dave
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric shocks
> off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts) when pluged
> into one particular double socket in the kitchen. She even got a shock off
> them when the switch on the socket was turned off.
About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd got a
shock of the shower head.
I thought it pretty unlikely and suggested it might be static electricity,
but her boyfriend said
he also go a shock off a saucepan (and I really couldn't work that one out).
Luckily I'd given them a screwdriver with a neon a few weeks before,
so In asked instructed her how to use it on the shower head and she said it
lit up.
So I got a cab over straight away and discovered virtually everything that
should be
Earthed was live including the radiators. She said that the incinkerator had
stopped
working a few days before so I had a look at that.
It had been wired up using twin & Earth to a 3 pin plug under the sink and
connected to a
4way extention lead. The bare earth wire was not insulated and it looked
like
the LIVE wire had sprung out of it's terminal and shorted against the Earth
wire.
Now this should have blown the fuse, but didn't so I assumed that the flat
wasn;t
Earthed properly or at all. There wasn;t anything I could do except
disconnect
the insinkerator, so the earth was no longer live.
I told them to tell the landlady that the place was a death trap and
probably illegal
and to get an electrictian in, apparently a cousin had rewired the electrics
!!!!!!
The saucepan was live because it was sitting touching the electric metal
kettle
which was plugged in.
Not sure what hapened next but my friends moved out anyway.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
>>> Far from ideal. It leaves a JB with a L E short that I have no way of
>>> knowing where it comes from.
>> You should leave a note on paper in the dodgy JB telling people who may
>> uncover it in the future that it is dodgy.
> It is noted on the certificate I issued.
Five-ten years down the line. She's moved. The certificate's long since
gone AWOL. The JB, otoh, is still there - and the new householder is
wondering why it's been left hanging there. Hey-ho. Might as well use it
for <shiny new toy>...
jrwal...@gmail.com
> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd got a
> shock of the shower head.
Many years ago I came across a similar situation. A neigbour
mentioned that their electricity bill was much higher than usual and
that they had noticed a tingling sensation when taking soap out of the
recessed dish in the tiled wall above the bath.
It turned out that when they replaced a light switch a few months
earlier the rubber insulation crumbled off a wire which then shorted
to the conduit. The conduit was not earthed.
It happened that the unearthed conduit ran behind the bathroom wall
tiles very close to the recessed soapdish.
They switched to bathing by candle-light until the house was rewired.
John
Andy Dingley
>Then the dog sniffed the cooker and
> screamed the place down.
Always trust a dog's judgement on such things - they have wet noses
and don't wear shoes.
Isn't this a similar situation to the daughter of a TV presenter who
dies a few years back, prompting yet another dose of legislation (was
it a claimed justification for Part P?) Kitchen has a known "tingle"
fault for ages, one day the victim is barefoot, or they happen to lean
against a better earth, and they wind up dead.
ARWadsworth
"Adrian" <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75tr2aF...@mid.individual.net...
It would have to be a thick bastard that uses a JB with the Live and Earth
connected into the same terminal to supply power for a new socket.
Adam
Steve Firth
> Isn't this a similar situation to the daughter of a TV presenter who
> dies a few years back, prompting yet another dose of legislation (was
> it a claimed justification for Part P?) Kitchen has a known "tingle"
> fault for ages, one day the victim is barefoot, or they happen to lean
> against a better earth, and they wind up dead.
Yes, I'd forgotten about that and the MP's daughter who died because of
a faulty extension lead, but he ended up supporting Part P. MPs, not the
brightest people on the face of the planet.
Stuart B
Only if the panelling was flush .Loads of tenement flats in Glasgow
etc had the doors ruined by folk ripping the mouldings off before
hardboarding the doors . Luckily there is a place near me that does a
suitable replacement.
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Mike Tomlinson
<xpoz...@NOSPAMgmail.com> writes
>Only if the panelling was flush .Loads of tenement flats in Glasgow
>etc had the doors ruined by folk ripping the mouldings off before
>hardboarding the doors . Luckily there is a place near me that does a
>suitable replacement.
I moved into a Victorian house some years ago. All the beautiful cast-
iron fireplaces had been hardboarded over and painted. On removing the
hardboard every single one had had the gathering smashed into pieces
(where a couple of minutes with a screwdriver would have got them safely
off intact) and the bits left in the firebasket. Even the firebaskets
and brass fireguards were left in place.
I could have cried.
--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png
PeterC
>>Then the dog sniffed the cooker and
>> screamed the place down.
>
> Always trust a dog's judgement on such things - they have wet noses
> and don't wear shoes.
Reminds me of a girlfriend - oh, sorry, nose you said.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
John Stumbles
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric
>> shocks off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts)
> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd
> got a shock of the shower head.
Some years ago my parents found they were getting a tingle off the Aga and
the deep freeze. Turned out my dad had taken the CH thermostat from the
wall when redecorating. Putting it back he'd trapped the neutral conductor
under the edge of the (metal) case of the (ancient) thermostat and created
a N-PE short. And the house was on a TT, the earthing conductor of which
had got snipped sometime earlier.
Just glad he didn't pinch the L conductor instead of the N!
--
John Stumbles
Xenophobia? Sounds a bit foreign to me.
Tim S
Very interesting.
Well, whilst I cannot quantify it, people do seem to be less practical and
generally more helpless these days - which I consider a specialised form of
stupidity. How do you explain that?
When I were a lad in the 70's, most of the men in our section of our road,
rightly or wrongly, would do their own DIY, electrics[1], plumbing and at
least basic car servicing.
[1] OK - at least one of them really shouldn't have, but at least he had a
grasp of the basics and could make things work even though he was a bit of
a dangerous sod.
Cheers
Tim
Dave Liquorice
> It would have to be a thick bastard that uses a JB with the Live and
> Earth connected into the same terminal to supply power for a new socket.
Hasn't some thick bastard has already done that to create the fault you
have found? A note in the JB is very sensible for the reasons already
posted.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Steve Firth
> Well, whilst I cannot quantify it, people do seem to be less practical and
> generally more helpless these days - which I consider a specialised form of
> stupidity. How do you explain that?
I think you're using "stupid" in a different sense. You're using it as a
synonym for inexperienced, unintelligent, ignorant. Stupid seems to be
more generaly accepted as a combination of those things plus the
unwitting tendency to do other people harm.
I think on the Cartesian system discussed by Livraghi there are the
following groups:
People who do good for others while doing no good or even suffering harm
themselves. These people are altruistic possibly even saintly.
People who do good for themselves and for others. These people are
leaders, entrepeneurs.
People who do good for themseles and harm others. These are gangsters
and brigands.
People who harm themselves and others. These people are stupid.
In reality most people move between each of the states depending on
circumstances, chance and necessity. I don't think the people you are
talking about quite make it as stupid, yet.
The Natural Philosopher
> That is scary. Two years worth of 230V live lumps of metal sat on a kitchen
> worktop.
>
> She is only alive due to good luck IMHO.
>
You must be a young man. We had a greenhouse heater that used to do that
all the time. IIRC the mains lead passed trough the metal frame, and the
grommet had collapsed, and eventually it wore through. I would assume
that the earth wire also had fallen off.
This was 1958. When I cleared my mothers house in 2003, it was still in
the garage..
Shocks were something you got. The WORST shock I have EVER had was off a
toy transranformer and a meccano electric motor. I was trying to build a
tram with an overhead wire to pick up the voltage. Well the contact
wasn't good, and when I fiddled with the 'safe' 12v system, I got one
hell of a belt off the inductive flyback of the motor.
I had almost as bad when testing PA amps, and put a probe on the output
whilst and accidentally touched the input.. About 55vAC hum.., Ouch!
Unless you are seriously earthed, touching the mains is not that
dangerous. My father used to use a knuckle - explaining that 'teh muscle
spasm jerks the finger away' - before the days of a neon test
screwdriver. He did get thrown across the room once tho.
The Natural Philosopher
comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
Anyone remember old radios and TV sets where the HT was simply a half
wave rectifier off the mains? and the chassis was neutral and there was
no earth? Two wire feed..
Wire THEM up backwards and all the metalwork was live..but I only
noticed when I got a tingle off an oversized grubscrew my father had
reaffixed a bakelite knob with...
The Medway Handyman
> People don't have father who do things themselves so much, people are
> busier so tend to get a man in for everything beyond nailing a
> picture up and I doubt chemistry lessons involve making low to medium
> grade explosives (unlike Johnny Gardner's "Christmas specials" bless
> him).
People regularly get a man in to hang pictures - I'm glad to say :-)
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
John Rumm
> Shocks were something you got. The WORST shock I have EVER had was off a
> toy transranformer and a meccano electric motor. I was trying to build a
> tram with an overhead wire to pick up the voltage. Well the contact
> wasn't good, and when I fiddled with the 'safe' 12v system, I got one
> hell of a belt off the inductive flyback of the motor.
The most unpleasant I have had is when sitting at the computer listening
to music through headphones, and I reached out to clear a spec of dust
from the screen. I inadvertently discharged the static buildup on the
screen through my ears via the headphones!
Clint Sharp
<071ec5fc-78c1-4708...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, Man
at B&Q <manat...@hotmail.com> writes
>And preserved all that lovelly panelling under the hardboard. Clever
>guy actually!
months ago because some makeover obsessed neighbour had decided that
they wanted some panelled doors instead of the flat boring ones in their
new house ;-)
>
>MBQ
--
Clint Sharp
Lobster
> John Stumbles wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:40:36 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>>
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>>>> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric
>>>> shocks off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts)
>>
>>> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd
>>> got a shock of the shower head.
>>
>> Some years ago my parents found they were getting a tingle off the Aga
>> and
>> the deep freeze. Turned out my dad had taken the CH thermostat from the
>> wall when redecorating. Putting it back he'd trapped the neutral
>> conductor
>> under the edge of the (metal) case of the (ancient) thermostat and
>> created
>> a N-PE short. And the house was on a TT, the earthing conductor of which
>> had got snipped sometime earlier.
>>
>> Just glad he didn't pinch the L conductor instead of the N!
>>
> Which goes to prove my point that whilst totally 240v live surfaces are
> comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
I'm sure that's right. How many of the folk here of a certain age
(that's most of us I would think?!) can honestly say they've never had a
mains shock?
I vividly remember my first time - as you do for many life events...
I was 5 or 6, playing with the mains-powered nightlight in my little
sister's nursery. It had a standard bayonet bulb under a plastic
lift-off wendy-house cover, and had a torpedo switch on the flex, which
in those days had no screws keeping it closed, but was just dismantled
by twisting and unscrewing the whole cover of the switch.
I came across this switch, and predictably enough just unscrewed the
thing 'to see how it worked'. Equally predictably I received I right
old belt up my arm. Wow, so that's what an Electric Shock is...
So what's a 5 or 6 year old boy to do, when he has a little sister to
play with? Yup. "Hey sis, come and touch this it feels really nice".
"Waa-aaa-aaah! - M - uuuu - m - yyyyyyy! - look what he's done now!"
and sure enough I got my second belt of the day.
David
Invisible Man
We have a TT connection which was "earthed" via water pipe. Just had a
earth rod and a new consumer unit. Tripping traced to upstairs light
using earth as neutral. Now fixed and the touch sensitive bedside lights
no longer come on occasionally when the bathroom light is turned off.
Lobster
> Archie coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
>> "Tim S" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>> news:49f985c9$0$517$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>>> ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:
>>>
>>>> This weeks Darwin award is for someone that waited 2 years.
>>>> She is only alive due to good luck IMHO.
>>> Does make you wonder.
>
> I think, to be fair, stupidity is partly a result of our society and
> education.
I think the trouble here is someone gets a shock from an appliance, and
thinks 'OK, that was unpleasant, probably best not to do that again' but
no more than that. They have no comprehension that the severity of
future shocks from the same source can vary massively depending on
whether they happen to have rubber-soled shoes, wet hands, have one hand
in the sink and one on the kettle, are standing barefoot in a puddle, or
whatever.
David
ARWadsworth
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gtd8kj$1cl$1...@news.albasani.net...
> ARWadsworth wrote:
>
>> That is scary. Two years worth of 230V live lumps of metal sat on a
>> kitchen worktop.
>>
>> She is only alive due to good luck IMHO.
> Unless you are seriously earthed, touching the mains is not that
> dangerous. My father used to use a knuckle - explaining that 'teh muscle
> spasm jerks the finger away' - before the days of a neon test screwdriver.
> He did get thrown across the room once tho.
She would have only have to touch the toaster that was plugged into a
correctly working socket 1m away to make a good earth.
I have had my share of belts. The worst was when I was subcontracted out and
I was given that firms worst apprenctice (in his 3rd year) and told to make
sure he got fired for something. Within the hour he energised a lighting
circuit I was working on.
Adam
ARWadsworth
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> John Stumbles wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:40:36 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>>
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>>>> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric
>>>> shocks off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts)
>>
>>> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd
>>> got a shock of the shower head.
>>
>> Some years ago my parents found they were getting a tingle off the Aga
>> and
>> the deep freeze. Turned out my dad had taken the CH thermostat from the
>> wall when redecorating. Putting it back he'd trapped the neutral
>> conductor
>> under the edge of the (metal) case of the (ancient) thermostat and
>> created
>> a N-PE short. And the house was on a TT, the earthing conductor of which
>> had got snipped sometime earlier.
>>
>> Just glad he didn't pinch the L conductor instead of the N!
>>
> Which goes to prove my point that whilst totally 240v live surfaces are
> comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
Agreed, but still not desirable in a kitchen.
> Anyone remember old radios and TV sets where the HT was simply a half wave
> rectifier off the mains? and the chassis was neutral and there was no
> earth? Two wire feed..
>
> Wire THEM up backwards and all the metalwork was live..but I only noticed
> when I got a tingle off an oversized grubscrew my father had reaffixed a
> bakelite knob with...
Too young to remember.
Adam
ARWadsworth
"Lobster" <davidlobs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5mxKl.6529$Oi7....@newsfe23.ams2...
> I'm sure that's right. How many of the folk here of a certain age (that's
> most of us I would think?!) can honestly say they've never had a mains
> shock?
>
> I vividly remember my first time - as you do for many life events...
>
> I was 5 or 6, playing with the mains-powered nightlight in my little
> sister's nursery. It had a standard bayonet bulb under a plastic lift-off
> wendy-house cover, and had a torpedo switch on the flex, which in those
> days had no screws keeping it closed, but was just dismantled by twisting
> and unscrewing the whole cover of the switch.
>
> I came across this switch, and predictably enough just unscrewed the thing
> 'to see how it worked'. Equally predictably I received I right old belt
> up my arm. Wow, so that's what an Electric Shock is...
>
> So what's a 5 or 6 year old boy to do, when he has a little sister to play
> with? Yup. "Hey sis, come and touch this it feels really nice".
>
> "Waa-aaa-aaah! - M - uuuu - m - yyyyyyy! - look what he's done now!" and
> sure enough I got my second belt of the day.
>
> David
LOL.
My first electric shock was when I put the terminals of the transformer from
an electric train set on my tounge. Not mains voltage but it hurt. What else
could I do but call my younger brother over saying "come and taste this".
Adam
Tim S
> I think the trouble here is someone gets a shock from an appliance, and
> thinks 'OK, that was unpleasant, probably best not to do that again' but
> no more than that. They have no comprehension that the severity of
> future shocks from the same source can vary massively depending on
> whether they happen to have rubber-soled shoes, wet hands, have one hand
> in the sink and one on the kettle, are standing barefoot in a puddle, or
> whatever.
I think you may have it - but, fundamentally, that is quite
stupid/useless/lack-of-awareness by any definition.
90v batteries, girls +ve, boys -ve, then get them to hold hands, snog,
anything else they dared. That's what they need in 5th form (or whatever
it's called now). They'd soon learn the difference between different
contact scenarios.
I was going to say: next thing will be a house blown up because the
householder noticed a massively strong smell of gas, phoned the gas board,
then sat down to have a fag while waiting.
But it's probably already happened...
Tim S
> I vividly remember my first time - as you do for many life events...
>
> I was 5 or 6, playing with the mains-powered nightlight in my little
> sister's nursery. It had a standard bayonet bulb under a plastic
> lift-off wendy-house cover, and had a torpedo switch on the flex, which
> in those days had no screws keeping it closed, but was just dismantled
> by twisting and unscrewing the whole cover of the switch.
>
> I came across this switch, and predictably enough just unscrewed the
> thing 'to see how it worked'. Equally predictably I received I right
> old belt up my arm. Wow, so that's what an Electric Shock is...
>
> So what's a 5 or 6 year old boy to do, when he has a little sister to
> play with? Yup. "Hey sis, come and touch this it feels really nice".
>
> "Waa-aaa-aaah! - M - uuuu - m - yyyyyyy! - look what he's done now!"
> and sure enough I got my second belt of the day.
>
> David
Marvellous. I even remember those torpedo switches.
Mine was off some frayed flex on a lamp in a restaurant in froggy - probably
Dieppe. My Dad told me to touch the base with on finger and use another
finger on the same hand to touch the wire, whilst keeping the other hand
away from everything. That went upto the shoulder.
Next major one was off the back of a valve TV - feck knows how many volts
that was.
Tim S
> Tim S wrote:
>
>> People don't have father who do things themselves so much, people are
>> busier so tend to get a man in for everything beyond nailing a
>> picture up and I doubt chemistry lessons involve making low to medium
>> grade explosives (unlike Johnny Gardner's "Christmas specials" bless
>> him).
>
> People regularly get a man in to hang pictures - I'm glad to say :-)
>
>
Whilst I wouldn't deny you your livelihood Dave, I still have to say:
"Oh please!"...
Unless you're 90+ or blind or otherwise disabled there really is no
excuse...
Even Maggie Thatcher could bang her own picture hooks in.
fred
>etc had the doors ruined by folk ripping the mouldings off before
>hardboarding the doors . Luckily there is a place near me that does a
>suitable replacement.
>
Any chance you could share the source of those mouldings? I've not found
anyone who has a realistic match off the shelf.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
Archie
> I vividly remember my first time - as you do for many life events...
>
> I was 5 or 6, playing with the mains-powered nightlight in my little
> sister's nursery. It had a standard bayonet bulb under a plastic lift-off
> wendy-house cover, and had a torpedo switch on the flex, which in those
> days had no screws keeping it closed, but was just dismantled by twisting
> and unscrewing the whole cover of the switch.
>
> I came across this switch, and predictably enough just unscrewed the thing
> 'to see how it worked'. Equally predictably I received I right old belt
> up my arm. Wow, so that's what an Electric Shock is...
>
> So what's a 5 or 6 year old boy to do, when he has a little sister to play
> with? Yup. "Hey sis, come and touch this it feels really nice".
>
> "Waa-aaa-aaah! - M - uuuu - m - yyyyyyy! - look what he's done now!" and
> sure enough I got my second belt of the day.
>
> David
>
Remind me of the time I was working on the car ignition system. An annoying
lad came over and started touching things and asking questions like Mister,
what are you doing, can I help? I didn't fancy him hovering about when I was
working on the engine so I handed him a pencil and told him to put his thumb
the end and touch that bit there with the other end. That bit was of course
an exposed HT lead and the engine was running. He pulled back so I ask
what's wrong. Nothing says he (probably wondering how he could get a belt
from a pencil) so I asked him to do it again. He did then said he didn't
want to help anymore and went away. Result!
tony sayer
ARWadsworth <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> scribeth thus
I was told at Two years old I apparently stuck a nail file behind a two
pin connector can't think why I'd wanted to do that at such an age.
Seems it threw me several feet!.
Still that was at my grans old house one of the last to be connected to
the "electric light" in the area!...
--
Tony Sayer
The Natural Philosopher
> Tim S wrote:
>
>> People don't have father who do things themselves so much, people are
>> busier so tend to get a man in for everything beyond nailing a
>> picture up and I doubt chemistry lessons involve making low to medium
>> grade explosives (unlike Johnny Gardner's "Christmas specials" bless
>> him).
>
> People regularly get a man in to hang pictures - I'm glad to say :-)
>
>
man, seem to adopt the trappings of the so called upper clases, and
revel in servants to exercise their every whim.
Even John Prescott, class warrior to his boots, plays croquet..
Dave Osborne
> Lobster coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
> I was going to say: next thing will be a house blown up because the
> householder noticed a massively strong smell of gas, phoned the gas board,
> then sat down to have a fag while waiting.
>
If you call the gas emergency line to report a leak, they (quite
rightly) go through a whole script about no naked flames, don't operate
light switches, etc., so if someone did have a fag whilst they were
waiting (after being warned not to), then they truly would be a Darwin
candidate!
The Natural Philosopher
> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:gtd949$21k$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> John Stumbles wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:40:36 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>>> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric
>>>>> shocks off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts)
>>>> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd
>>>> got a shock of the shower head.
>>> Some years ago my parents found they were getting a tingle off the Aga
>>> and
>>> the deep freeze. Turned out my dad had taken the CH thermostat from the
>>> wall when redecorating. Putting it back he'd trapped the neutral
>>> conductor
>>> under the edge of the (metal) case of the (ancient) thermostat and
>>> created
>>> a N-PE short. And the house was on a TT, the earthing conductor of which
>>> had got snipped sometime earlier.
>>>
>>> Just glad he didn't pinch the L conductor instead of the N!
>>>
>> Which goes to prove my point that whilst totally 240v live surfaces are
>> comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
>
> Agreed, but still not desirable in a kitchen.
>
Oh, I totally agree. Death by electrocution in a domestic environment is
almost unheard of these days, and requires some flagrant bending of the
regulations to achieve.
The regulations are well worth the minimal effort to implement correctly.
My point was, that the fact that something is deemed 'outside acceptable
safety limits' does not mean its instant death to anyone who
transgresses them.
It's a peculiar attitudes that seems to be prevalent today - as evinced
by the 'road signs' thread - that legal equates to completely safe, and
illegal equates to profoundly dangerous.
>
>> Anyone remember old radios and TV sets where the HT was simply a half wave
>> rectifier off the mains? and the chassis was neutral and there was no
>> earth? Two wire feed..
>>
>> Wire THEM up backwards and all the metalwork was live..but I only noticed
>> when I got a tingle off an oversized grubscrew my father had reaffixed a
>> bakelite knob with...
>
> Too young to remember.
>
Ah..
> Adam
>
>
ARWadsworth
I still take money off people who nail/drill through cables whilst hanging a
picture.
She "Hang me that picture up please love"
He "Where do you want it?"
She "Directly above that lightswitch would be nice"
Adam
Tim S
She daft for not knowing
He dafter for actually doing it!
I'd love to set this up for a school class:
Cork board with painted light switches etc, foil on the back in all
the "zones" connected to electric fence generator.
Give children metal drawing pins...
I'd give a prize for the ones who avoid the 150mm corner bands :-)
Andy Dingley
> Unless you're 90+ or blind or otherwise disabled there really is no
> excuse...
>
> Even Maggie Thatcher could bang her own picture hooks in.
It's one job I hate doing myself. I'd much rather be standing across
the room calling out "left a bit!" while someone else does the nail.
The nailer just can't see where they're putting it.
Andy Dingley
> ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:
> > She "Hang me that picture up please love"
> > He "Where do you want it?"
> > She "Directly above that lightswitch would be nice"
>
> She daft for not knowing
> He dafter for actually doing it!
Present company excepted, just how many people (of our wonderful Hello-
reading, Jade-loving general population) would have the first clue
about this?
ARWadsworth
My O level physics teacher turned the installation of a new blackboard
(chaulkboard if you are PC) into a very interesting lesson. The whole class
helped to fit it and remove the old one. He managed to turn the lesson into
fun. Not only were there drills and spirt levels etc but the class also
weighed the board and worked out how much tension there was on the screws
holding the board up (probably not accurate but it was only O level).
He would probably get fired for repeating that lesson if he did it today.
Adam
Tim S
Exactly - and that's why Britain is pretty much down the pan :(
Although, even without having a copy of the OnSite Guide or green book,
common sense should indicate to even the more uninformed that "if switch
have wires, wires have to be somewhere in wall in the general direction of
switch".
whisky-dave
Ah but doe these wires come from above, below to the left or right,
or perhaps diagonally. You really shouldn't trust a switch to have been put
in
correctly.
Tim S
> Ah but doe these wires come from above, below to the left or right,
> or perhaps diagonally. You really shouldn't trust a switch to have been
> put in
> correctly.
Apart from diagonally, all the others should be assumed to be likely.
I'm chasing my cables in at the moment and an using all of the permitted
zones bar the 150mm from ceiling one.
But you are right, a sensible man will have a cable detector handy.
A real man however will lick the wall and detect the leakage with his
tongue!
whisky-dave
Probably wait for the gas board official to turn up with a fag in his mouth.
Surely I can;t be the only one to have seen gas board officials standing
around
holes in the road and smoking.
ARWadsworth
Detention Tim.
500 lines of
Do not electrocute the childen.
Adam
ARWadsworth
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:ef4b11a7-e242-4172...@x29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
If the customer is blind you could just pretend to put the picture up.
Adam
js.b1
> Apart from diagonally, all the others should be assumed to be likely.
If the house predates 13th Amended (late 1987) then assume wires will
be diagonal, indeed assume diagonal to the shortest possible route.
The Natural Philosopher
In all cases, don't assume anything.
AFAIAC the regulations are not there to prevent you hitting cables, they
are there to make it a lot less likely, that's all.
John Rumm
> ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:
>> She "Hang me that picture up please love"
>> He "Where do you want it?"
>> She "Directly above that lightswitch would be nice"
> She daft for not knowing
> He dafter for actually doing it!
Its amazing the number of people that it never seems to occur to though.
Was speaking to a chap once about the trouble he had installing a phone
socket for a friend. She said where she wanted it, so he fixed it and
then set about the cable run. She interrupted and said "Oh no, I don't
want any of those wires". So he explained the wire was required for the
phone socket to work. She did not believe him, and countered by saying
"Well the mains socket does not have any wires!". He tried to explain
they were buried in the wall, and she refused to believe it!
> I'd love to set this up for a school class:
>
> Cork board with painted light switches etc, foil on the back in all
> the "zones" connected to electric fence generator.
>
> Give children metal drawing pins...
>
> I'd give a prize for the ones who avoid the 150mm corner bands :-)
There are probably government rules against actually teaching kids
useful stuff these days!
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
whisky-dave
> Steve Firth coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
>> Tim S <t...@dionic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I think, to be fair, stupidity is partly a result of our society and
>>> education.
>>
>> I don't think that's at all accurate. There are a few scholarly studies
>> of stupidity, they go back to the 1930s. The common conclusion is that
>> stupidity is with is now and has always been with us.
>>
>> http://www.gandalf.it/stupid/stupid.htm
>
> Very interesting.
>
> Well, whilst I cannot quantify it, people do seem to be less practical and
> generally more helpless these days - which I consider a specialised form
> of
> stupidity. How do you explain that?
I think it's lack of real education and actually doing things rather than
writing
about them. I remember the days when appliances and plugs came separately.
If you didn't know how to wire a plug, you'd find out.
Now it seems that the majority of learning comes from writing essays
and doing multiply choice questions.
If you're not good enough to go to uni. tio get some written qualification
you're all but written off unless you want to become army fodder for the
next 'war'.
Scott M
> depending on
> whether they happen to have rubber-soled shoes, wet hands, have one hand
> in the sink and one on the kettle, are standing barefoot in a puddle, or
> whatever.
Isn't that the initiation ceremony for the Masons?
--
Scott
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
ARWadsworth
God Bless Them. If he does not then it is �30 an hour at their house when I
am there.
Adam
john jardine
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:75vuneF...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2009-05-01, Tim S <t...@dionic.net> wrote:
>
>> I was going to say: next thing will be a house blown up because the
>> householder noticed a massively strong smell of gas, phoned the gas
>> board,
>> then sat down to have a fag while waiting.
>
> provide a sufficient spark.
>
> --
> "It would be thought a hard government that should
> tax its people one tenth part." ~ Benjamin Franklin
> [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
And a couple of cases in the 60's where the emergency gas fitter turned up
and pressed the doorbell button ...
john jardine
>> John Stumbles wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:40:36 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:XxfKl.21774$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>
>>>>> I got a call from a customer to say that she was getting electric
>>>>> shocks off her kettle and deep fat frier (both shiney chrome beasts)
>>>
>>>> About 15 years ago I had a similar call from a friend that said she'd
>>>> got a shock of the shower head.
>>>
>>> Some years ago my parents found they were getting a tingle off the Aga
>>> and
>>> the deep freeze. Turned out my dad had taken the CH thermostat from the
>>> wall when redecorating. Putting it back he'd trapped the neutral
>>> conductor
>>> under the edge of the (metal) case of the (ancient) thermostat and
>>> created
>>> a N-PE short. And the house was on a TT, the earthing conductor of which
>>> had got snipped sometime earlier.
>>>
>>> Just glad he didn't pinch the L conductor instead of the N!
>>>
>> Which goes to prove my point that whilst totally 240v live surfaces are
>> comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
>
> most of us I would think?!) can honestly say they've never had a mains
> shock?
>
> I vividly remember my first time - as you do for many life events...
>
> I was 5 or 6, playing with the mains-powered nightlight in my little
> sister's nursery. It had a standard bayonet bulb under a plastic lift-off
> wendy-house cover, and had a torpedo switch on the flex, which in those
> days had no screws keeping it closed, but was just dismantled by twisting
> and unscrewing the whole cover of the switch.
>
> I came across this switch, and predictably enough just unscrewed the thing
> 'to see how it worked'. Equally predictably I received I right old belt
> up my arm. Wow, so that's what an Electric Shock is...
>
> So what's a 5 or 6 year old boy to do, when he has a little sister to play
> with? Yup. "Hey sis, come and touch this it feels really nice".
>
> "Waa-aaa-aaah! - M - uuuu - m - yyyyyyy! - look what he's done now!" and
> sure enough I got my second belt of the day.
>
> David
>
about laughing (an electrician). Must have be some kind of rite-of-passage
thing, as I've now had a lifetime of being fed and watered by those dancing
electrons. (240V belts now down to about one a month :).
Lobster
>
> I think it's lack of real education and actually doing things rather than
> writing
> about them. I remember the days when appliances and plugs came separately.
> If you didn't know how to wire a plug, you'd find out.
Not if you were my mother-in-law you didn't. Christ....
David
Dave
Are you so cheap?
Dave
John Stumbles
> Which goes to prove my point that whilst totally 240v live surfaces are
> comparatively commonplace, death by them is far far rarer.
My point was that it wasn't 240V, it was neutral. There was no effective
earth anywhere (nor main eq bonding) but all it would have taken was
contact between something at the house's floating earth and some
extraneous-conductive item connected to a truer earthed and it could have
been lethal.
> Anyone remember old radios and TV sets where the HT was simply a half
> wave rectifier off the mains? and the chassis was neutral and there was
> no earth? Two wire feed..
Indeed. The danger with TV servicing was that a belt from the EHT probably
wouldn't kill you (in the days before colour) but could jolt you into
contact with the live chassis, which might!
Made it a pain trying to get a direct connection to record off TV with.
--
John Stumbles
What do you mean, talking about it isn't oral sex?
Tim S
>
> "Tim S" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>> I was going to say: next thing will be a house blown up because the
>> householder noticed a massively strong smell of gas, phoned the gas
>> board, then sat down to have a fag while waiting.
>>
>> But it's probably already happened...
>
> Probably wait for the gas board official to turn up with a fag in his
> mouth. Surely I can;t be the only one to have seen gas board officials
> standing around
> holes in the road and smoking.
He's the canary... If he blows up, they know they didn't do the last joint
right
;_>
John Stumbles
> hell of a belt off the inductive flyback of the motor.
Working in a computer centre in the late 70s/early 80s I learned to beware
of teletypes connected on otherwise-innocuous twisted phone line circuits :-)
--
John Stumbles
If we'd known how much fun grandchildren are
we'd have had them first
Tim S
>
> Its amazing the number of people that it never seems to occur to though.
>
> Was speaking to a chap once about the trouble he had installing a phone
> socket for a friend. She said where she wanted it, so he fixed it and
> then set about the cable run. She interrupted and said "Oh no, I don't
> want any of those wires". So he explained the wire was required for the
> phone socket to work. She did not believe him, and countered by saying
> "Well the mains socket does not have any wires!". He tried to explain
> they were buried in the wall, and she refused to believe it!
Wibble...
>> I'd love to set this up for a school class:
>>
>> Cork board with painted light switches etc, foil on the back in all
>> the "zones" connected to electric fence generator.
>>
>> Give children metal drawing pins...
>>
>> I'd give a prize for the ones who avoid the 150mm corner bands :-)
>
> There are probably government rules against actually teaching kids
> useful stuff these days!
>
>
I bet they get me on the drawing pins first. Must give children pointy
things....
ARWadsworth
Smoking what?
Adam
The Medway Handyman
> The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
>> Tim S wrote:
>>
>>> People don't have father who do things themselves so much, people
>>> are busier so tend to get a man in for everything beyond nailing a
>>> picture up and I doubt chemistry lessons involve making low to
>>> medium grade explosives (unlike Johnny Gardner's "Christmas
>>> specials" bless him).
>>
>> People regularly get a man in to hang pictures - I'm glad to say :-)
>>
>>
>
> Whilst I wouldn't deny you your livelihood Dave, I still have to say:
>
> "Oh please!"...
>
> excuse...
>
> Even Maggie Thatcher could bang her own picture hooks in.
You would be surprised. Hang pictures, assemble simple flatpack like
bathroom cabinets/shoe racks (4 confirmat screws), change bulbs (now a H&S
issue, needing a risk assesment), install washing machines (no plumbing,
simply connect feed & waste & plug in), supply & fit new sink plug & chain.
Mus'nt grumble though.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
The Medway Handyman
Thankfully few :-)
Mike Tomlinson
<t...@dionic.net> writes
>When I were a lad in the 70's, most of the men in our section of our road,
>rightly or wrongly, would do their own DIY, electrics[1], plumbing
we didn't have the nanny state and the likes of Part Pee then.
> and at
>least basic car servicing.
cars were designed to be user-serviceable then. nowadays you're lucky if
you can change the oil yourself. Everything else is hidden away under
plastic covers.
--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png
John
"Mike Tomlinson" <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Pm6Q9ZA$CQ$JF...@jasper.org.uk...
It seems that many can't change a failed brake light bulb - or don't care.
I told a driver recently that his had gone (why is it always the nearside
one??) and he replied that his MOT was due in a couple of months time. Doh!
Bob Eager
wrote:
>
> "Mike Tomlinson" <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:Pm6Q9ZA$CQ$JF...@jasper.org.uk...
> > In article <49fa135c$0$517$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk>, Tim S
> > <t...@dionic.net> writes
> >
> >>When I were a lad in the 70's, most of the men in our section of our road,
> >>rightly or wrongly, would do their own DIY, electrics[1], plumbing
> >
> > we didn't have the nanny state and the likes of Part Pee then.
> >
> >> and at
> >>least basic car servicing.
> >
> > cars were designed to be user-serviceable then. nowadays you're lucky if
> > you can change the oil yourself. Everything else is hidden away under
> > plastic covers.
> >
>
> It seems that many can't change a failed brake light bulb - or don't care.
>
> I told a driver recently that his had gone (why is it always the nearside
> one??) and he replied that his MOT was due in a couple of months time. Doh!
To be fair, some are really a pain (lots of screws to undo, etc.). It
can be a pain.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com
ARWadsworth
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> On Sun, 3 May 2009 08:17:31 UTC, "John" <Who90...@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Mike Tomlinson" <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:Pm6Q9ZA$CQ$JF...@jasper.org.uk...
>> > In article <49fa135c$0$517$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk>, Tim S
>> > <t...@dionic.net> writes
>> >
>> >>When I were a lad in the 70's, most of the men in our section of our
>> >>road,
>> >>rightly or wrongly, would do their own DIY, electrics[1], plumbing
>> >
>> > we didn't have the nanny state and the likes of Part Pee then.
>> >
>> >> and at
>> >>least basic car servicing.
>> >
>> > cars were designed to be user-serviceable then. nowadays you're lucky
>> > if
>> > you can change the oil yourself. Everything else is hidden away under
>> > plastic covers.
>> >
>>
>> It seems that many can't change a failed brake light bulb - or don't
>> care.
>>
>> I told a driver recently that his had gone (why is it always the nearside
>> one??) and he replied that his MOT was due in a couple of months time.
>> Doh!
>
> To be fair, some are really a pain (lots of screws to undo, etc.). It
> can be a pain.
>
Yep. Over 40 minutes to change the OS headlight bulb on my Combo. The tail
lights only take about 30 seconds. There is still no excuse not to change a
bulb or pay someone to change it for you as soon as possible after you know
that the bulb has blown.
And use of basic tools is on the decline. Whilst fitting some outside lights
I discovered that my apprentice had never used a socket set in his life.
After showing him I then asked him if he could change a wheel on a car. The
answer was no and so I had to show him. An hour well spent IMHO.
Adam
Tony Bryer
> It seems that many can't change a failed brake light bulb - or
> don't care.
On my Suzuki Wagon (original version) this was a dealer job - back
bumper off. Ludicrous design decision.
--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com
tony sayer
<Who90...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
Its a serious job changing the bulbs on some cars now..
For most ever other car problem its specialist software on a laptop;!...
--
Tony Sayer
John
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eHbE$BDqRZ$JF...@bancom.co.uk...
Surprised - every car we have had for years has been a simple no-tool job
from the inside of the hatch or boot. Roll on LEDs then.
John Rumm
> And use of basic tools is on the decline. Whilst fitting some outside lights
> I discovered that my apprentice had never used a socket set in his life.
> After showing him I then asked him if he could change a wheel on a car. The
> answer was no and so I had to show him. An hour well spent IMHO.
I think that if you want to make the driving test more useful there
ought to be a section on at least knowing how to carry out basic
maintenance like changing a wheel (even if you are not physically
capable of doing it - you ought to be able to instruct someone),
checking the oil, inflating tyres etc.
geoff
ARWadsworth <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg mate
Sun was shining yesterday, got the bike out and went for a run and ended
up at a pub by the canal
I asked for a pint of London Pride, the girl behind the bar had to get
someone to show her how to pull a pint
You would be forgiven for not believing it, but its true
--
geoff
Bob Eager
> I asked for a pint of London Pride, the girl behind the bar had to get
> someone to show her how to pull a pint
>
> You would be forgiven for not believing it, but its true
I always used to cause chaos by asking for a bottle (poured) of
Worthington White Shield. The sensible ones gave me a bottle and a
glass.
geoff
<rd...@spamcop.net> writes
>On Sun, 3 May 2009 23:09:39 UTC, geoff <ra...@kateda.org> wrote:
>
>> I asked for a pint of London Pride, the girl behind the bar had to get
>> someone to show her how to pull a pint
>>
>> You would be forgiven for not believing it, but its true
>
>I always used to cause chaos by asking for a bottle (poured) of
>Worthington White Shield. The sensible ones gave me a bottle and a
>glass.
>
Long gone - RIP
Mind you, you can keep your hand in with the occasional Hefeweizen
but, to be serving behind a bar and not to even have the first clue as
to how to pull a pint, is beyond my comprehension
--
geoff
The Medway Handyman
>
> Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg mate
>
> Sun was shining yesterday, got the bike out and went for a run and
> ended up at a pub by the canal
OMG - you're a cyclist!
geoff
Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>geoff wrote:
>
>>
>> Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg mate
>>
>> Sun was shining yesterday, got the bike out and went for a run and
>> ended up at a pub by the canal
>
>
>OMG - you're a cyclist!
>
As in two wheels
that's where the similarity ends
--
geoff
The Medway Handyman
Lycra? If so, I'm going to have to drive to Wotfud & kill you.
geoff
>geoff wrote:
>> In message <nVqLl.23753$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The
>> Medway Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>> geoff wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg mate
>>>>
>>>> Sun was shining yesterday, got the bike out and went for a run and
>>>> ended up at a pub by the canal
>>>
>>>
>>> OMG - you're a cyclist!
>>>
>> Err ... right in a technical sense
>>
>> As in two wheels
>>
>> that's where the similarity ends
>
>Lycra? If so, I'm going to have to drive to Wotfud & kill you.
>
>
--
geoff
ARWadsworth
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:lJadncrDE-RavWPU...@posted.plusnet...
> ARWadsworth wrote:
>
>> And use of basic tools is on the decline. Whilst fitting some outside
>> lights I discovered that my apprentice had never used a socket set in his
>> life. After showing him I then asked him if he could change a wheel on a
>> car. The answer was no and so I had to show him. An hour well spent IMHO.
>
> I think that if you want to make the driving test more useful there ought
> to be a section on at least knowing how to carry out basic maintenance
> like changing a wheel (even if you are not physically capable of doing
> it - you ought to be able to instruct someone), checking the oil,
> inflating tyres etc.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John.
The driving test now asks candidates some questions about car maintainance
and safety
Adam
Dave Liquorice
> but, to be serving behind a bar and not to even have the first clue as
> to how to pull a pint, is beyond my comprehension
Everyone has to start somewhere, maybe it was her first day? However it
doesn't say a lot for the landlord if they haven't at least checked by
demonstration that the newbie can actually do what they say they can.
It seems that the young these days say they can do everything and have
experience but when it come down to it they don't.
--
Cheers
Dave.
ARWadsworth
"geoff" <ra...@kateda.org> wrote in message
news:02wWt0XzQi$JF...@demon.co.uk...
Totally believable. And Dennis will now tell you off for having a pint and
then driving a motor vehicle.
Adam
tony sayer
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> scribeth thus
>ARWadsworth wrote:
>
>> And use of basic tools is on the decline. Whilst fitting some outside lights
>> I discovered that my apprentice had never used a socket set in his life.
>> After showing him I then asked him if he could change a wheel on a car. The
>> answer was no and so I had to show him. An hour well spent IMHO.
>
>I think that if you want to make the driving test more useful there
>ought to be a section on at least knowing how to carry out basic
>maintenance like changing a wheel (even if you are not physically
>capable of doing it - you ought to be able to instruct someone),
>checking the oil, inflating tyres etc.
>
And add some motorway driving etc..
Won't happen 'tho, will it?..
--
Tony Sayer
tony sayer
>Tip of the iceberg, tip of the iceberg mate
>
>Sun was shining yesterday, got the bike out and went for a run and ended
>up at a pub by the canal
>
>I asked for a pint of London Pride, the girl behind the bar had to get
>someone to show her how to pull a pint
Best let someone who knows what there doing to handle that!..
Loverrly pint when serviced well:))...
Had a few at Covent garden the other week .. only �2.25 it was too:!..
>
>You would be forgiven for not believing it, but its true
>
>
--
Tony Sayer
geoff
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
>On Mon, 4 May 2009 01:32:46 +0100, geoff wrote:
>
>> but, to be serving behind a bar and not to even have the first clue as
>> to how to pull a pint, is beyond my comprehension
>
>Everyone has to start somewhere, maybe it was her first day?
No - my wife asked, she had been there three days
behind the bar by herself with no help - she had to shout around the
corner for assistance
Two things there
she should have had at least some training - what would she have done in
an emergency
She could at least have made an attempt to work out what to do
> However it
>doesn't say a lot for the landlord if they haven't at least checked by
>demonstration that the newbie can actually do what they say they can.
>
>It seems that the young these days say they can do everything and have
>experience but when it come down to it they don't.
>
--
geoff
geoff
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
good job I didn't mention getting up to 32 mph on the way home
--
geoff
Clive George
> In message <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.net>, Dave
> Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
>>On Mon, 4 May 2009 01:32:46 +0100, geoff wrote:
>>
>>> but, to be serving behind a bar and not to even have the first clue as
>>> to how to pull a pint, is beyond my comprehension
>>
>>Everyone has to start somewhere, maybe it was her first day?
>
> No - my wife asked, she had been there three days
>
> behind the bar by herself with no help - she had to shout around the
> corner for assistance
That would also scare me for different reasons - if the pub isn't shifting
that much of their cask beer, what condition is it in?