Gas to wood pellets, anyone?
Timothy Murphy
(the boiler is very old) to a wood pellet system.
[There is a grant here for doing that at the moment.]
Has anyone any experience of, or views on, these "biomass" systems?
EricP
Not personal use but three local schools had them foisted on them last
summer to replace ancient oil boilers.
All three have had a disasterous experience with them, one boiler
retiring itself in a load bang and taking the boiler house roof with
it.
Pellets are also very iffy with variation of quality from supplier to
supplier.
One school did research on them as eco-friendly as claimed and found
that when all factors are considered, oil is far more eco-friendly.
If you are considering one I would scout around locally and find some
in use and enquire as to make and pellet supplier. Never take any
notice of the guff spouted by boiler supplier or pellet supplier under
any circumstances.
I also know of two local domestic installs and both are very happy,
one saying it is the best thing he has ever had installed.
So, as I said make very careful local enquiries and base your decision
on that. Believe nothing claimed, only information from users with no
axes to grind.
tin...@isbd.co.uk
in this thread.
--
Chris Green
unst...@thebar.com
<gayl...@eircom.net> wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/27/renewableenergy.biomass
might be worth reading
breeze
Tim Lamb
<gayl...@eircom.net> writes
Ping AJH. He's the expert.
regards
>
--
Tim Lamb
Alan
unst...@thebar.com wrote
Is this another alternative technology that only works if the take-up is
low? Will the cost of wood pellets be that cheap in 5/10 years time when
they have to be shipped from the Amazonian rain forest?
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com
EricP
wrote:
>>Not personal use but three local schools had them foisted on them last
>>summer to replace ancient oil boilers.
>
>Yes I think foisted is a good word to use in relation to biomass and
>council run schools.
>>
>>All three have had a disasterous experience with them, one boiler
>>retiring itself in a load bang and taking the boiler house roof with
>>it.
>
>Was this the Binder boiler?
Without asking next week I can't remember. It is Swedish and an "Eco
Boiler" if that helps.
The bang according to a consultant was combustion of uncombusted
combustion gases. In other words it produced a house full of bang-bang
gas which combusted and went BANG!
It has been on Manual ever since rebuild/reinstal and they offered me
the job of turning it on at 8am every morning. I declined. :))
>
>I had the job of cleaning out 4 very nice italian hot air pellet
>furnaces where there was some evidence of "deflagration" from poor
>maintenance, in an arty establishment by St Pancras.
>>
"Deflagration" is "the combustion of uncombusted combustion gases" I
take it? :))
It makes a very nice cloud of smoke as well.
>>Pellets are also very iffy with variation of quality from supplier to
>>supplier.
>
>Yes, in spades, especially these micro pelleters that need large
>amounts of binders because they never get hot enough to extrude
>properly and the pressure is too low, the ash problem and slagging
>increase dramatically.
>>
>>One school did research on them as eco-friendly as claimed and found
>>that when all factors are considered, oil is far more eco-friendly.
>
>I'd need a bit of evidence to be swayed by that. A big pellet mill
>will use less than 5% of the energy in the pellet to pelletise it,
>albeit motive energy is worth more than thermal energy.
It was a schooly type exercise with transporting and manufacture etc.
Not scientific, just done out of interest by frozen staff trying to
keep warm because the heating didn't work for some reason. :)
>>
>AJH
The Natural Philosopher
Its something like an acre of decent land to produce enough biomass for
a small family on a renewable basis.
OTOH if you have the land, or there is scrap wood around, its probably
worth using it at any rate.
Timothy Murphy
>>Has anyone any experience of, or views on, these "biomass" systems?
>
> Ping AJH. He's the expert.
AJH?
Ping?
Timothy Murphy
> Is this another alternative technology that only works if the take-up is
> low? Will the cost of wood pellets be that cheap in 5/10 years time when
> they have to be shipped from the Amazonian rain forest?
As far as I can make out, the Greens here
(they are in the government in Ireland)
claim that Ireland at least is capable of producing all the wood necessary.
At the moment I think the pellets are mainly imported from Eastern Europe,
so hopefully it would be the other way round - imported now but not later.
The Natural Philosopher
> Alan wrote:
>
>> Is this another alternative technology that only works if the take-up is
>> low? Will the cost of wood pellets be that cheap in 5/10 years time when
>> they have to be shipped from the Amazonian rain forest?
>
> As far as I can make out, the Greens here
> (they are in the government in Ireland)
> claim that Ireland at least is capable of producing all the wood necessary.
>
..for the .1% of the population using this system
..
...and by returning all of te agricultural land to biomass productions ..
and by polluting te world with yet more carbon/nitrphgen/suplhur emissins.
:-)
Tim Lamb
<gayl...@eircom.net> writes
Look back up the thread.
regards
>
--
Tim Lamb
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Timothy Murphy
<gayl...@eircom.net> saying something like:
>
>As far as I can make out, the Greens here
>(they are in the government in Ireland)
>claim that Ireland at least is capable of producing all the wood necessary.
Supposedly true, but I wait with interest the flood of demand for
pellets when every bugger wants one.
>At the moment I think the pellets are mainly imported from Eastern Europe,
>so hopefully it would be the other way round - imported now but not later.
Several pelletising plants are being set up right now.
I installed one of these pellet burners last year; a 15KW domestic in a
garage. Not really an option for a lot of houses - you definitely need
room for a feed hopper and fuel storage. After a bit of setting up I had
it running well and it's been faultless since. Early days yet, though.
I'd wait another couple of years before I would say it's perfectly fine
and reliable.
You should have a look at Sustainable Energy Ireland's website for more
info - unfortunately, the grant system has skewed the market and you
need to have one installed by a 'registered' installer to get the grant,
otherwise the full grantless price is around €4000.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House
Alan
<grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote
>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember Timothy Murphy
><gayl...@eircom.net> saying something like:
>
>>
>>As far as I can make out, the Greens here
>>(they are in the government in Ireland)
>>claim that Ireland at least is capable of producing all the wood necessary.
>
>Supposedly true, but I wait with interest the flood of demand for
>pellets when every bugger wants one.
When enough people are tied into to a wood burning the grants will stop
and pellets will be taxed in the same way as petrol in the UK.
Doki
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:g58pv8$kt1$2...@registered.motzarella.org...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember Timothy Murphy
> <gayl...@eircom.net> saying something like:
>
>>
>>As far as I can make out, the Greens here
>>(they are in the government in Ireland)
>>claim that Ireland at least is capable of producing all the wood
>>necessary.
>
> Supposedly true, but I wait with interest the flood of demand for
> pellets when every bugger wants one.
>
>>At the moment I think the pellets are mainly imported from Eastern Europe,
>>so hopefully it would be the other way round - imported now but not later.
>
> Several pelletising plants are being set up right now.
>
> I installed one of these pellet burners last year; a 15KW domestic in a
> garage. Not really an option for a lot of houses - you definitely need
> room for a feed hopper and fuel storage. After a bit of setting up I had
> it running well and it's been faultless since. Early days yet, though.
> I'd wait another couple of years before I would say it's perfectly fine
> and reliable.
TBH it's hardly rocket science. We had a couple of self feeding / stoking
coal boilers when I was a kid. Obviously wood doesn't burn as cleanly, but
the stoking and feeding bit would be pretty similar I imagine.
Grimly Curmudgeon
something like:
>TBH it's hardly rocket science. We had a couple of self feeding / stoking
>coal boilers when I was a kid. Obviously wood doesn't burn as cleanly, but
>the stoking and feeding bit would be pretty similar I imagine.
The headaches will come along as the pellet crusher in the burner wears
after a few years, I've no doubt. I'm sure the wood in these pellets
does burn fairly cleanly, as it's in a controlled burn envinronment,
exactly the same idea as a pressure-jet oil burner.