Options for flicker free lighting source?
jim
source?
My experience of (digital) photography using AC driven light sources
is poor (due to flicker). So I am wondering if there is anything that
gives a constant light source for photography purposes, which I should
imagine means a DC driven lamp.
I mostly photograph items using a stand mounted Canon camera, with the
image being displayed on the PC screen before taking the picture.
Something with the brightness similar to a 40W GLS (normal household
lamp) or an 8W flourescent tube would give me a starting point for
exploration. At this stage any pointer to a suitable light source
would be appreciated regardless of colour temperature.
TIA
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember jim <jim_in...@hotmail.com>
saying something like:
There's a whole world of car headlamps, foglamps and driving lamps open
to you, with suitable DC sources easily available. In tungsten halogen,
50W-ish is the norm, so more or less matches what you want and if you
want more, you could look at the HID 12V conversion kits available from
China via ebay.
Dave Plowman (News)
<707bfcc5-89da-4007...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
jim <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What options are there for a flicker free light low wattage light
> source?
> My experience of (digital) photography using AC driven light sources
> is poor (due to flicker). So I am wondering if there is anything that
> gives a constant light source for photography purposes, which I should
> imagine means a DC driven lamp.
Depending on your shutter speed a high frequency ballast for a fluorescent
could well sort things - approx 30000 Hz rather than 50Hz which gives a
100 Hz flicker.
Before these existed we got round the problem in TV by using groups of
three fluorescents fed from different sources. On the occasions where
fluorescents were needed. But tungsten off one phase didn't cause any
problems.
--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> There's a whole world of car headlamps, foglamps and driving lamps open
> to you, with suitable DC sources easily available. In tungsten halogen,
> 50W-ish is the norm, so more or less matches what you want and if you
> want more, you could look at the HID 12V conversion kits available from
> China via ebay.
The colour spectrum from these isn't brilliant. I've got them fitted to
the old Rover and rear number plates look green.
--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?
Dave Liquorice
> I mostly photograph items using a stand mounted Canon camera, with the
> image being displayed on the PC screen before taking the picture.
Is it just this preview that is a problem or are you getting banding on
the actual digital images as well?
--
Cheers
Dave.
Arfa Daily
"jim" <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:707bfcc5-89da-4007...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
LEDs maybe ? Take a look at this
http://www.elektor.com/magazines/2008/february/led-ringflash.350117.lynkx
I know it's basically a flash, but probably easily adapted for constant
light. I've got the actual mag somewhere. I'll have a look at the article.
Arfa
Dave Plowman (News)
Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> Before these existed we got round the problem in TV by using groups of
> three fluorescents fed from different sources.
Make that different phases.
--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.
Dave Plowman (News)
Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I mostly photograph items using a stand mounted Canon camera, with the
> > image being displayed on the PC screen before taking the picture.
> >
> > Something with the brightness similar to a 40W GLS (normal household
> > lamp) or an 8W flourescent tube would give me a starting point for
> > exploration. At this stage any pointer to a suitable light source
> > would be appreciated regardless of colour temperature.
> >
> >
> > TIA
> >
> LEDs maybe ? Take a look at this
They're generally not very good colour spectrum wise.
--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*
RW
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:500ab23...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <ghk7t5$9sg$1...@reader.motzarella.org>,
> Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>> There's a whole world of car headlamps, foglamps and driving lamps open
>> to you, with suitable DC sources easily available. In tungsten halogen,
>> 50W-ish is the norm, so more or less matches what you want and if you
>> want more, you could look at the HID 12V conversion kits available from
>> China via ebay.
>
> The colour spectrum from these isn't brilliant. I've got them fitted to
> the old Rover and rear number plates look green.
Then your lights are the wrong colour K
Rod
a pair of good CFLs - 18 or 20W. (They were sold explicitly as suited to
photography - and their colour rendering was as good as I have ever seen
from CFLs.) Effectively put the CFLs in a box and photographed through a
hole on the side. No problems whatsoever with flicker or banding. Slight
adjustment to colour in Photoshop and they were fine for purpose.
(Selling ceramic objects on ebay.)
I cared more about sharpness than speed so stopped the lens down a bit -
and the shutter on my Canon had a minimum exposure of, IIRC 1/1000,
yours might be faster. You might not wish to do this for other reasons,
but could you slow the shutter down a bit?
Doing it again, we would use some of the 5500K trumpet top CFLs.
--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
dennis@home
"jim" <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:707bfcc5-89da-4007...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
flash!
Dave Plowman (News)
RW <No...@here.net> wrote:
> > The colour spectrum from these isn't brilliant. I've got them fitted
> > to the old Rover and rear number plates look green.
> Then your lights are the wrong colour K
When colours change to the eye using a nominal white light it's due to the
spectrum output from that light not being continuous.
You get a choice of colour temperature with these kits and I chose the
same as tungsten.
Even pro HID lamps used in filming don't have a perfect colour spectrum.
--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *
Andrew Gabriel
A 40W mains filament lamp is probably thin enough that some 100Hz
shows up due to low thermal intertia. A low voltage equivalent would
have a much thicker filament and over come that.
Photographers traditionally have problems with the low colour
temperature of filament lamps (2700K). Photofloods (over-driven)
lamps were used to get around that. I still have a 275W GLS
photoflood in the cupboard somewhere, but it only has a life of
a few hours. What you could do is use something like a 12V 20W
lamp and over-run it -- you'll easily get 40W (actually, it's
probably equivalent to 40W even when not overrun). It won't last
long, but neither did photofloods. Make sure you house it in a
fitting which will contain the red-hot pieces of quartz safely
if it explodes though, and carry spares with you.
Fluorescents on electronic control gear mostly won't flicker.
There's no flicker at the operating frequency because they're
all well above 5kHz, and at 5kHz, the discharge becomes
becomes continuous anyway. You can still get 100Hz line
frequency ripple coming through in some cases though.
The main problem is that the colour spectrum is often
particularly bad for photography.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Arfa Daily
> In article <bEj%k.4034$Fx1....@newsfe30.ams2>,
> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> > I mostly photograph items using a stand mounted Canon camera, with the
>> > image being displayed on the PC screen before taking the picture.
>> >
>> > Something with the brightness similar to a 40W GLS (normal household
>> > lamp) or an 8W flourescent tube would give me a starting point for
>> > exploration. At this stage any pointer to a suitable light source
>> > would be appreciated regardless of colour temperature.
>> >
>> >
>> > TIA
>> >
>
>> LEDs maybe ? Take a look at this
>
> They're generally not very good colour spectrum wise.
They weren't, agreed, but are now getting much better. There have been a lot
of advances on this front with power LEDs, just in the last few months.
Arfa
unop...@mail.com
> In article <707bfcc5-89da-4007-b624-92d0b2d44...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> jim <jim_in_sus...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > What options are there for a flicker free light low wattage light
> > source?
>
> shows up due to low thermal intertia. A low voltage equivalent would
> have a much thicker filament and over come that.
>
> There's no flicker at the operating frequency because they're
> all well above 5kHz, and at 5kHz, the discharge becomes
> becomes continuous anyway. You can still get 100Hz line
> frequency ripple coming through in some cases though.
>
domestic high-frequency control gear for traditional fluorescent
'tubes'? I'm looking at doing some re-lighting, and one of the
objectives is to replace the kitchen lights which are traditional
fluorescents. There are two things I'd like to do: get a better CRI
than the 80-odd that is usual for standard fluorescents; and eliminate
the flicker, which is most noticeable for me when I have a headache -
at which point simply looking around the kitchen makes me nauseous as
I keep catching the flicker out of the corner of my eyes.
Ideally, dimmable as well.
As noted by other people in this newsgroups, I'd also like some
longevity of supply - there's no point in spending lots of money on
specialist fittings to find they are no longer supplied when next
season's colours come in.
And while I'm asking for things (it is that season after all), can I
have world peace and elimination of hunger and disease?
Cheers,
Sid
Dave Plowman (News)
Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> LEDs maybe ? Take a look at this
> >
> > They're generally not very good colour spectrum wise.
> They weren't, agreed, but are now getting much better. There have been a
> lot of advances on this front with power LEDs, just in the last few
> months.
I'm sure there will continue to be advances. But looking at some new ones
we were trying out for filming they're not there yet.
--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.
Andrew Gabriel
unop...@mail.com writes:
> On 9 Dec, 09:54, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>> In article <707bfcc5-89da-4007-b624-92d0b2d44...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>> jim <jim_in_sus...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > What options are there for a flicker free light low wattage light
>> > source?
>>
>> A 40W mains filament lamp is probably thin enough that some 100Hz
>> shows up due to low thermal intertia. A low voltage equivalent would
>> have a much thicker filament and over come that.
>>
>> Fluorescents on electronic control gear mostly won't flicker.
>> There's no flicker at the operating frequency because they're
>> all well above 5kHz, and at 5kHz, the discharge becomes
>> becomes continuous anyway. You can still get 100Hz line
>> frequency ripple coming through in some cases though.
>>
> CFLs seem to have high-frequency control gear, but is there available
> domestic high-frequency control gear for traditional fluorescent
> 'tubes'?
Yes, but unfortunately it is significantly harder to find at
reasonable prices than it should be.
> I'm looking at doing some re-lighting, and one of the
> objectives is to replace the kitchen lights which are traditional
> fluorescents. There are two things I'd like to do: get a better CRI
> than the 80-odd that is usual for standard fluorescents; and eliminate
> the flicker, which is most noticeable for me when I have a headache -
> at which point simply looking around the kitchen makes me nauseous as
> I keep catching the flicker out of the corner of my eyes.
I really doubt 80-something CRI is too low in a kitchen.
Higher CRI usually comes also as much higher colour temperature,
and that's normally a disaster in a kitchen (does really nasty
things to colour of food).
> Ideally, dimmable as well.
That will at least double the ballast cost, and require some rewiring.
Gordon Henderson
Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <6q6fk4F...@mid.individual.net>,
> RW <No...@here.net> wrote:
>> > The colour spectrum from these isn't brilliant. I've got them fitted
>> > to the old Rover and rear number plates look green.
>
>> Then your lights are the wrong colour K
>
>When colours change to the eye using a nominal white light it's due to the
>spectrum output from that light not being continuous.
>You get a choice of colour temperature with these kits and I chose the
>same as tungsten.
>
>Even pro HID lamps used in filming don't have a perfect colour spectrum.
Can't you adjust the while balance in the camera to compensate?
HIDs are very popular in underwater filming - mostly because they are
bright, have a long-burn time vs. battery pack size... However there's
no such thing as true colour underwater ;-)
My own underwater "torch" is HID. Compact and very bright and with a
4-hour burn-time on the relatively small NiMH battery pack...
Gordon
unop...@mail.com
> In article <996641d1-8f6b-4210-8564-7d6851a27...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> unope...@mail.com writes:
>
> > CFLs seem to have high-frequency control gear, but is there available
> > domestic high-frequency control gear for traditional fluorescent
> > 'tubes'?
>
> Yes, but unfortunately it is significantly harder to find at
> reasonable prices than it should be.
>
advertised.
>
> > I'm looking at doing some re-lighting, and one of the
> > objectives is to replace the kitchen lights which are traditional
> > fluorescents. There are two things I'd like to do: get a better CRI
> > than the 80-odd that is usual for standard fluorescents; and eliminate
> > the flicker, which is most noticeable for me when I have a headache -
> > at which point simply looking around the kitchen makes me nauseous as
> > I keep catching the flicker out of the corner of my eyes.
>
> I really doubt 80-something CRI is too low in a kitchen.
> Higher CRI usually comes also as much higher colour temperature,
> and that's normally a disaster in a kitchen (does really nasty
> things to colour of food).
>
white' tubes, which have/had a truly awful colour rendition. Tomato
soup goes a mucky brown colour - and it is not my cooking, I promise.
There's a nice picture here:
http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/articles/cri/cribig.htm
comparing colour charts photographed under a CRI of 70 and a CRI of
85.
Perhaps I'm just stuck in the habit of expecting colours to be as seen
under incandescent tungsten lighting (not halogen). I just find it
disconcerting to move from a fluorescent lit kitchen into the tungsten
lit dining room and see some of the colour changes in the food. The
colour temperature of say, a Philips TL950 is a bit high, as you say.
> > Ideally, dimmable as well.
>
> That will at least double the ballast cost, and require some rewiring.
>
Since I'd be relighting, that's not necessarily a problem. Finding
decent fittings/lampholders is another fun task. I do not want mains
voltage halogen, or LED spots or whatever the current in fashion vogue
is. What I'm after is dazzle-free and shadow free task lighting for
preparing the food, which should be achievable with under-cabinet
fluorescent and a wash of dazzle-free separate general room lighting,
which might be achievable with above cabinet fluorescents. I'm after
both being dimmable (I've used switchbanks, and they irritate me like
blazes, as I don't get the level exactly as I want it).
I suppose I'm quite picky as far as lighting goes. I love the Danish
PH designed lamp-holders, with the hidden lamp(so no dazzle), but good
illumination. Anything with exposed lamps (especially in public
lighting) drives me up the wall - there's really no excuse for such
poor lighting design - good lighting makes such a big difference to
the general environment. There's more to illuminating an area than
just sticking a bare bulb in the middle of it!
Regards,
Sid
Dave Plowman (News)
Gordon Henderson <gordon...@drogon.net> wrote:
> >When colours change to the eye using a nominal white light it's due to
> >the spectrum output from that light not being continuous. You get a
> >choice of colour temperature with these kits and I chose the same as
> >tungsten.
> >
> >Even pro HID lamps used in filming don't have a perfect colour spectrum.
> Can't you adjust the while balance in the camera to compensate?
Colour temp and spectrum ain't the same. The problems arise when a source
has spikes or troughs in its frequency output.
> HIDs are very popular in underwater filming - mostly because they are
> bright, have a long-burn time vs. battery pack size... However there's
> no such thing as true colour underwater ;-)
> My own underwater "torch" is HID. Compact and very bright and with a
> 4-hour burn-time on the relatively small NiMH battery pack...
Indeed - excellent devices. Provided you realise their limitations.
--
*Succeed, in spite of management *
Dave Plowman (News)
<e5754778-3da5-4d23...@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
<unop...@mail.com> wrote:
> Well perhaps I'm confusing things with the old halophosphate 'warm
> white' tubes, which have/had a truly awful colour rendition.
You need specialist tubes for specialist use. Domestic ones are more
concerned with low cost.
Fluorescents are widely used in TV location work as soft lights and have a
good colour spectrum and are fully dimmable - without the temp changing by
much. Available in daylight and tungsten.
--
*Keep honking...I'm reloading.
unop...@mail.com
> In article
> <e5754778-3da5-4d23-802a-b3430aa11...@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> <unope...@mail.com> wrote:
> Fluorescents are widely used in TV location work as soft lights and have a
> good colour spectrum and are fully dimmable - without the temp changing by
> much. Available in daylight and tungsten.
>
Well a tungsten dimmable tube sounds about what I'm after - could you
possibly mention a brand name of tube and drivers, then I can take a
deep breath and go off and find out how much they cost.
Many thanks,
Sid
Rod
> In article
> <e5754778-3da5-4d23...@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> <unop...@mail.com> wrote:
>> Well perhaps I'm confusing things with the old halophosphate 'warm
>> white' tubes, which have/had a truly awful colour rendition.
>
> You need specialist tubes for specialist use. Domestic ones are more
> concerned with low cost.
>
> Fluorescents are widely used in TV location work as soft lights and have a
> good colour spectrum and are fully dimmable - without the temp changing by
> much. Available in daylight and tungsten.
>
Another Dave
> I'm looking at doing some re-lighting, and one of the
> objectives is to replace the kitchen lights which are traditional
> fluorescents. There are two things I'd like to do: get a better CRI
> than the 80-odd that is usual for standard fluorescents; and eliminate
> the flicker, which is most noticeable for me when I have a headache -
> at which point simply looking around the kitchen makes me nauseous as
> I keep catching the flicker out of the corner of my eyes.
>
My daughter suffers terribly from this - the lighting actually causes
headaches followed by the nauseous feelings you describe. Given that
Tungsten lights are being phased out, have you any suggestions as to
which lights are acceptable as replacements?
Another Dave
--
Change nospam to f2s in email.
unop...@mail.com
Well, I'm no expert, but I can offer some suggestions...
If you use Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFLs), their operating frequency
is in the kilohertz rather than mains frequency or twice mains
frequency, so the flicker _shouldn't_ be noticeable. Some people are
not particularly impressed with the light quality from CFLs. I've used
lots of different ones, and so far I'm quite impressed with GE
ecoimagination ones which I got from Tesco. The GE catalogue reference
is FLE11TBX/T3/827/E27-10Y-GE. They are 11 Watt, E27 units, but I'm
sure bayonet mount are available as well.
Some people use halogen incandescent lamps, which are slightly more
efficient than standard incandescents. However, they produce a
'whiter' light than standard incandescents, which is problematic for
some people. Some have been produced in GLS format, but GE have
recently said they are no longer developing high efficiency halogen
lamps, so GLS versions are unlikely to be available in the long term.
Some people continue to use standard tungsten incandescent lamps - if
you can't get 100 Watt lamps, buying fittings that allow you to use
2x60 Watt or 3x40 Watt lamps instead can enable you to carry on using
the lighting system you prefer.However, it looks like there is
forthcoming EU legislation to ban incandescents completely (presumably
except for applications where there are no suitable alternatives), so
it may not be a long term strategy:
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/1909
Organisations like Ban the Bulb (http://www.banthebulb.org/ ) think
this isn't going far or fast enough.
The UK government's voluntary scheme for banning incandescent is
detailed in this press release:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2007/070927a.htm
I'd say try CFLs, and if your daughter cant cope with those, then hope
that LED technology works better for her and becomes cheaper, faster.
Sid
Dave Plowman (News)
Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Fluorescents are widely used in TV location work as soft lights and
> > have a good colour spectrum and are fully dimmable - without the temp
> > changing by much. Available in daylight and tungsten.
> >
> And have been since at least fairly early in the run of Pot Black.
And boxing - I remember seeing a three phase rig to avoid flicker so
probably dating from before the days of high frequency ballasts.
--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
Dave Plowman (News)
<e009c71a-b3db-432c...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
The trouble is that pro lamps such as these cost a fortune - but you could
make something similar yourself for a more affordable amount.
Osram do a range of dimmable ballasts :-
http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=499
But you'd have to select the tube size/colour temp you want first and how
many of them. I'd say most good triphosphor types should be ok.
> Many thanks,
> Sid
--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *
unop...@mail.com
> <unope...@mail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9 Dec, 15:06, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <e5754778-3da5-4d23-802a-b3430aa11...@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> > > <unope...@mail.com> wrote:
>
> Osram do a range of dimmable ballasts :-
>
> http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=499
>
> But you'd have to select the tube size/colour temp you want first and how
> many of them. I'd say most good triphosphor types should be ok.
>
>
Thank-you _very_ much for that Dave.
Regards,
Sid.
Andrew Gabriel
unop...@mail.com writes:
> On 9 Dec, 12:18, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>> I really doubt 80-something CRI is too low in a kitchen.
>> Higher CRI usually comes also as much higher colour temperature,
>> and that's normally a disaster in a kitchen (does really nasty
>> things to colour of food).
>>
> Well perhaps I'm confusing things with the old halophosphate 'warm
> white' tubes, which have/had a truly awful colour rendition. Tomato
> soup goes a mucky brown colour - and it is not my cooking, I promise.
Philips Colour 29 (2855K) was a common warm white halophosphate.
It had a CRI of 51, although it was very efficient.
Better warm white halophosphates appeared such as Softone 32
(with a CRI of 92), but they were only half the efficiency.
I doubt they exist anymore.
> There's a nice picture here:
> http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/articles/cri/cribig.htm
> comparing colour charts photographed under a CRI of 70 and a CRI of
> 85.
> Perhaps I'm just stuck in the habit of expecting colours to be as seen
> under incandescent tungsten lighting (not halogen). I just find it
> disconcerting to move from a fluorescent lit kitchen into the tungsten
> lit dining room and see some of the colour changes in the food. The
> colour temperature of say, a Philips TL950 is a bit high, as you say.
>> > Ideally, dimmable as well.
>>
>> That will at least double the ballast cost, and require some rewiring.
>>
> Since I'd be relighting, that's not necessarily a problem. Finding
> decent fittings/lampholders is another fun task. I do not want mains
> voltage halogen, or LED spots or whatever the current in fashion vogue
> is. What I'm after is dazzle-free and shadow free task lighting for
> preparing the food, which should be achievable with under-cabinet
> fluorescent and a wash of dazzle-free separate general room lighting,
> which might be achievable with above cabinet fluorescents. I'm after
> both being dimmable (I've used switchbanks, and they irritate me like
> blazes, as I don't get the level exactly as I want it).
I have run T5HE tubes under cabinets. They come in lengths which
match modular ceiling systems, and which also match most common
wall cabinet widths. 35W is the longest, and 14W the shortest.
(If you need shorter, the old T5 4/6/8/13W tubes are similar.)
I clip them to the rear if the plinth, and mount the control gear
somewhere where it won't warm up food stored in the cupboards.
For room lighting, I use the T5HO tubes over cabinets, combined
with a brilliant white ceiling to reflect the light back. They come
in the same lengths as T5HE, but are over twice the power ratings,
up to 80W.
T5HE = T5 High Efficiency
T5HO = T5 High Output
> I suppose I'm quite picky as far as lighting goes. I love the Danish
> PH designed lamp-holders, with the hidden lamp(so no dazzle), but good
> illumination. Anything with exposed lamps (especially in public
> lighting) drives me up the wall - there's really no excuse for such
> poor lighting design - good lighting makes such a big difference to
> the general environment. There's more to illuminating an area than
> just sticking a bare bulb in the middle of it!
Yes. A light in the middle of a kitchen is remarkably useless.
Dave Plowman (News)
<7d837520-4926-4e95...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
You're welcome. I'm not saying either of the above companies are the best
value - but when you choose what you want you can Google for the best
price.
--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *
Andrew Gabriel
unop...@mail.com writes:
> However, it looks like there is
> forthcoming EU legislation to ban incandescents completely (presumably
> except for applications where there are no suitable alternatives), so
> it may not be a long term strategy:
>
> http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/1909
Just had a read through.
Looks like all perl (frosted) GLS lamps and 100W clear banned
from Sep 2009. Then clear 75W, and 60W, and finally all GLS
lamps banned in 2010, 2011, and 2012 respectively.
Same for most halogen lamps, but some of the highest efficiency
ones (which aren't in common use today) will be allowed to remain.
Adam Aglionby
Any reference to this as GE have proudly held on to halogen heritage?
>
> Some people continue to use standard tungsten incandescent lamps - if
> you can't get 100 Watt lamps, buying fittings that allow you to use
> 2x60 Watt or 3x40 Watt lamps instead can enable you to carry on using
> the lighting system you prefer.However, it looks like there is
> forthcoming EU legislation to ban incandescents completely (presumably
> except for applications where there are no suitable alternatives), so
> it may not be a long term strategy:
>
> http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/1909
Higher efficiency halogens and special use excepted, so IR reflective
envelopes all round then and display lamps are a special use which
includes a lot of MR16s.
>
> Organisations like Ban the Bulb (http://www.banthebulb.org/) think
> this isn't going far or fast enough.
Certainly not fast enough , if they think LED is 90% more efficient
then they are already living in the future, oh dear.
>
> The UK government's voluntary scheme for banning incandescent is
> detailed in this press release:
>
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2007/070927a.htm
>
> I'd say try CFLs, and if your daughter cant cope with those, then hope
> that LED technology works better for her and becomes cheaper, faster.
Reality will bite at some point that other sources, all being phosphor
based, are not a panacea, hot wire technology still has some life left
in it and offers a continuous spectrum.
Watch out for some wacky "special use " fittings appearing and a black
market in non Part L pendant sets ;-)
Adam
>
> Sid
unop...@mail.com
> On 9 Dec, 17:33, unope...@mail.com wrote:
> > On 9 Dec, 16:42, Another Dave <dmars...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > unope...@mail.com wrote:
> > recently said they are no longer developing high efficiency halogen
> > lamps, so GLS versions are unlikely to be available in the long term.
>
> Any reference to this as GE have proudly held on to halogen heritage?
>
http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2231797/ge-pulls-plug-incandescent
http://cleantechnica.com/2008/12/02/ge-ends-development-of-incandescent-bulbs-focuses-on-leds/
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2008/12/01/ge-suspends-development-of-high-efficiency-incandescent-bulbs/
They refer to a statement made in the 'Clean Break' blog here:
http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2008/11/26/ge-suspends-development-of-high-efficiency-incandescent/
"Here’s the reply I got today from GE spokesman David Schuellerman:
GE Consumers & Industrial and GE Global Research have suspended
the development of the high-efficiency incandescent lamp (HEI) to
place greater focus and investment on what we believe will be the
ultimate in energy efficient lighting — light-emitting diodes (LEDs)
and organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs). Research and development of
these technologies is moving at an impressive pace and will be ready
for general lighting in the near future. LEDs and OLEDs used in
general lighting are now poised to surpass the projected efficiency
levels of HEI, along with other energy-efficient technologies like
fluorescent, and have the additional benefits of long life and
durability."
So, I should have been a bit more careful in what I said - development
of HEI lamps has stopped.
Regards,
Sid
unop...@mail.com
> In article <63ffb07e-a3fd-4c30-8d6d-a769bb80e...@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> unope...@mail.com writes:
>
> > However, it looks like there is
> > forthcoming EU legislation to ban incandescents completely (presumably
> > except for applications where there are no suitable alternatives), so
> > it may not be a long term strategy:
>
> >http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/1909
>
> Just had a read through.
>
> Looks like all perl (frosted) GLS lamps and 100W clear banned
> from Sep 2009. Then clear 75W, and 60W, and finally all GLS
> lamps banned in 2010, 2011, and 2012 respectively.
> Same for most halogen lamps, but some of the highest efficiency
> ones (which aren't in common use today) will be allowed to remain.
I should have linked to the 'technical' pdf:
I like the infra-red coated envelope on the halogen design. Pity it is
not more popular.
Cheers,
Sid
Another Dave
>
Thanks very much.
Andrew Gabriel
I've only seen it in this country on the 300W and 500W linear
halogen tubes (which are then 225W and 375W respectively).
It is available in the US on more lamp types, but there's
almost no market for efficient halogens in Europe -- people
who care about efficiency don't use halogens in the first
place, and those who do use halogens don't care about
efficiency and won't pay extra up-front cost (not to mention
that the IR coating is expensive to apply).
It also only works in a few geometries of halogen lamps.
Basically, it needs the IR to be reflected back onto the
filament, and reasonably uniformly. It's really only the
linear tube halogens where this is effective enough to
merit the additional cost of the process. It lifts these
mains filament halogens up to a 'C' efficiency rating
(and not a 'B' rating as I saw someone say in the other
thread).