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Tabby

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Dec 26, 2010, 11:20:44 PM12/26/10
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Feedback welcome...


NT

Stud wall noise reduction


There are many ways to reduce the noise transmission of plasterboard
[[stud wall]]s. This article focuses on easily applied DIY solutions
rather than recording studio practice.

The first rule of stud wall noise reduction is simple: don't build a
[[stud wall]]. Concrete block walls can give better noise performance.
However, often an existing stud wall isn't worth rebuilding.

Some of these methods are applied when building the wall, some are
retrofitted to finished walls.


==Basic principles==
Sound is movement or vibration, so all ways to block sound
transmission reduce a wall's movement or vibration.

All the following contribute to reducing sound transmission:
*stiffness of frame
*stiffness of plasterboard
*mass
*damping

The effects on fire resistance are considered too as the UK has 69,000
house fires a year and over 400 deaths a year in fires.


==Standard methods==
===Large framing===
The beefier the timber frame, the stiffer it is and the less it bends
when sound hits it.


===Noggings===
Timber frames can be reinforced with noggings. One row helps, 2 rows
help more. These stiffen the framework and also support the
plasterboard more, reducing deflection & resonance, both of which pass
sound.

_ _
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |____________| |
| |____________| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
|_| |_|

Horizontal nogging between 2 uprights


===Thick plasterboard===
12mm plasterboard has more rigidity than 9mm, so less sound
transmission.

1" of plasterboard is better again, ie 2 layers of 12mm. Staggering
the joints in the 2 layers improves strength & resistance to cracking.
[[Glue|Gluing]] the 2 layers to each other helps rigidity further.

Plywood is occasionally used in lieu of plasterboard. Its more abuse
proof and supports fairly heavy loads. However its also flammable, and
if used is best covered with a layer of plasterboard to give some fire
resistance.


===Holes===
Blocking all holes helps, even small holes can let a fair bit of sound
through.
* Sound also transfers via the underfloor cavity, sometimes its worth
lifting some floorboards and blocking this path
* Under door gaps can be blocked with brush strip or rubber strip


===Weights===
Putting weights on noggings reduces frame movement in response to
sound waves, reducing sound transmission. A row of concrete blocks can
be used, or for less weight bricks or even hardcore.


===Sound absorbent fill===
Sound absorbent filling can reduce plasterboard resonance, reducing
sound transmission. It also acts as a slight barrier to sound
conduction through the cavity. To be effective the fill needs to be
stiff, dense rockwool batts are ok, fibreglass roll loft
[[insulation]] isn't.

Its best to avoid using scrap [[carpet]] as a fill. It has the
necessary weight and some damping, but is flammable, and spills out in
a fire, making things worse.


===Staggered frames===
Constructing 2 separate frames within the one wall decouples the 2
sides of the wall from each other, reducing sound transmission. The 2
frames are staggered as shown to avoid the wall becoming twice as
thick. However this does mean a lot more wood use, and the inability
to fit noggings.

__ __
| | __ | | __
| | | | | | | |
|__| | | |__| | |
|__| |__|

Bird's eye view


==Less popular methods==
===Lead lining===
Lead lining is seldom used. Its very effective but expensive. Lead
sheet is fixed to the wall and overboarded. It provides mass and
damping.


===Scrap timber===
Assorted timber offcuts can be fixed across plasterboard expanses to
reduce plasterboard deflection & resonance. This differs from noggings
in that
* the timber can be whatever size is to hand, typically much smaller
than the frame
* connecting the timber to the wood frame is optional
* the timber doesn't add to frame rigidity
* several stiffening pieces are used per panel
* length isn't critical, pieces a bit too long are just placed on at
an angle.
* The pieces can be fixed on with [[Adhesive|high grab glue]], or
plastered & jammed into the frame.

This method is only doable when just one plasterboard skin is fitted.
Its not a common approach, but its quick, easy & costs next to
nothing, and reduces plasterboard deflection. Its useful when no more
effective measures are to be taken.


===Plaster===
When a wall has one skin of plasterboard applied, wet plaster is
applied to the back of the PB to make it more rigid. No need for
neatness or thoroughness makes it a fairly quick job. The extra
plaster thickess improves rigidity, reducing plaster deflection &
resonance.

The different resonant frequency of the 2 plasterboard sides means
that at each resonant frequency, where sound transmission is a maximum
for one side, its blocked by the other side.


===Panels===
When a wall has one skin of plasterboard applied, panels of any sheet
material to hand can be roughly cut & applied to the back of the PB to
make it more rigid. Plasterboard offcuts are the obvious material, but
other sheet material offcuts can also be used. This adds stiffness and
weight, reducing deflection & resonance.

Plasterboard offcuts can be stuck with PVA, grab adhesive or plaster.
Wood based sheet can also be screwed from the plaster side.


===Junk fill===
Part filling a wall cavity with construction junk (eg plasterboard
offcuts) can reduce plasterboard resonance to an extent. This is
unlikely to make a dramatic difference, but is a free way to dispose
of junk and get a little benefit.

Scrap plasterboard provides slight fire suppressance. Timber offcuts
are better avoided as they're fuel.


===Gravel fill===
[image:Gravel filled wall 4682-2.jpg|right|185px]]
[[image:Gravel funnel 4683-3.jpg|right|185px]]

Gravel filling [[stud wall]]s is not a recognised & recommended
practice. It has been tried as an experiment by a uk.d-i-yer on a
flimsy 1.5" timber frame wall with 2' stud spacing and 12mm
plasterboard. Some panels were fully filled, and achieved excellant
sound deadening, some panels were part filled, and were improved to a
lesser extent.

The plasterboard didn't bend visibly. However this might not be ok
with a beefier frame, the gravel weight with 2x4 studwork would be
about triple.

The work cost about £1 per 4' length of wall in materials for partial
fill, and under a fiver per 4' for complete fill. The work involved
was:
* cut a 2" hole in each panel
* shovel gravel in through a funnel (which was just the corner of a
cardboard fruit & veg tray with a hole in it)
* Holes were made good with [[filler]]

In a fire, the gravel spills out and partially smothers the source of
the flames.

Gravel fill can get excessively heavy, don't overdo it. Something
lighter would be better for bigger frames.

Wet gravel shouldn't be poured onto electrical accessories.


==See Also==
* [[Partition Wall]]
* [[Sheet Materials]]
* [[:Category:Noise|More noise reduction articles]]
* [http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/architectural-
acoustics/bbc_guideacousticpractice.pdf BBC, A guide to acoustic
practice 1990]
* Camden walls & more complex multi-layer partition walls: [http://
www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdf Lightweight partitions
having improved low frequency sound insulations. G.D. Plumb ]
* [http://www.mcquaybiz.com/mcquaybiz/literature/lit_systems/AppGuide/
AG31-010lo.pdf HVAC Acoustic Fundamentals]
* [http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_450_01.pdf UFC 3-450-01 Noise
and Vibration Control, US Army]

[[Category:Noise]]

d...@gglz.com

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 4:19:22 AM12/27/10
to
> * Camden walls & more complex multi-layer partition walls: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdfLightweight partitions

> having improved low frequency sound insulations. G.D. Plumb ]
> * [http://www.mcquaybiz.com/mcquaybiz/literature/lit_systems/AppGuide/
> AG31-010lo.pdf HVAC Acoustic Fundamentals]
> * [http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_450_01.pdfUFC 3-450-01 Noise

> and Vibration Control, US Army]
>
> [[Category:Noise]]

I think it needs to reference building regulations approved documents,
Part E:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/parte/

which contains quite a few recommendations for stud walls,
particularly where they form a building element that needs to meet a
standard - adding such things as additional sealing to the edges of
walls where they meet floors and ceilings.

Part B also needs a mention:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partb/

particularly where stud walls form part of a compartment and must meet
building regs for holding back fire.

harry

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 5:54:08 AM12/27/10
to
On Dec 27, 4:20 am, Tabby <meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
> * Camden walls & more complex multi-layer partition walls: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdfLightweight partitions

> having improved low frequency sound insulations. G.D. Plumb ]
> * [http://www.mcquaybiz.com/mcquaybiz/literature/lit_systems/AppGuide/
> AG31-010lo.pdf HVAC Acoustic Fundamentals]
> * [http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_450_01.pdfUFC 3-450-01 Noise

> and Vibration Control, US Army]
>
> [[Category:Noise]]

There is also the business of isolating the plasterboard from the
timber frame to reduce sound transmission. Special mounts are
available.

Terry Fields

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 8:02:06 AM12/27/10
to

Tabby wrote:

>To be effective the fill needs to be
>stiff, dense rockwool batts are ok, fibreglass roll loft
>[[insulation]] isn't.

The table of the sound properties of various materials in this link
suggests that fibreglass might have better perfomance than is
suggested above:

http://www.soundsmart.ca/sound-absorption.aspx

This site has a description of the basic science involved:

http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/store/soundproofing-principles.html

TF

Tabby

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 1:32:36 PM12/27/10
to
On Dec 27, 1:02 pm, Terry Fields <no.spam.h...@thanks.invalid> wrote:
> Tabby wrote:

> >To be effective the fill needs to be
> >stiff, dense rockwool batts are ok, fibreglass roll loft
> >[[insulation]] isn't.
>
> The table of the sound properties of various materials in this link
> suggests that fibreglass might have better perfomance than is
> suggested above:
>
> http://www.soundsmart.ca/sound-absorption.aspx

it only discusses fibreglass batts, no mention of loft insulation,
which is a different animal and ineffective


> This site has a description of the basic science involved:
>
> http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/store/soundproofing-principles.html
>
> TF


NT

d...@gglz.com

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 4:46:07 PM12/27/10
to

> it only discusses fibreglass batts, no mention of loft insulation,
> which is a different animal and ineffective

Part E specifies mass >10Kg/m3, which I think does includes the denser
mineral wool types.

David Robinson

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 6:10:43 PM12/27/10
to
On Dec 27, 4:20 am, Tabby <meow2...@care2.com> wrote:

> ===Staggered frames===
> Constructing 2 separate frames within the one wall decouples the 2
> sides of the wall from each other, reducing sound transmission. The 2
> frames are staggered as shown to avoid the wall becoming twice as
> thick. However this does mean a lot more wood use, and the inability
> to fit noggings.
>
>   __                   __
>  |  |       __        |  |       __
>  |  |      |  |       |  |      |  |
>  |__|      |  |       |__|      |  |
>            |__|                 |__|
>
>  Bird's eye view

You can fit noggins, but they have to be shallow, or the staggering
needs to be the complete depth of the wood.

A standard non-staggered wall with larger timbers (e.g. with
dimensions equivalent to the total of the comparable staggered wall)
is easier and maybe just as good if not better (depending on the sound
which is intended to be blocked).
IMO!

Cheers,
David.

Tabby

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 7:38:45 PM12/27/10
to
Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far. Revised version...

NT

Stud wall noise reduction


There are many ways to reduce the noise transmission of plasterboard

[[stud wall]]s. Many of these methods also apply to plasterboard
ceilings and timber floor structures, which are similarly constructed.

This article focuses on easily applied DIY solutions rather than
recording studio practice.

The first rule of stud wall noise reduction is simple: don't build a

[[stud wall]]. Concrete block walls give better noise performance.
However, usually an existing stud wall isn't worth rebuilding.

through. Ensure all cracks & gaps are caulked.


* Sound also transfers via the underfloor cavity, sometimes its worth
lifting some floorboards and blocking this path
* Under door gaps can be blocked with brush strip or rubber strip

* Downlighters can be plaster boxed


===Weights===
Putting weights on noggings reduces frame movement in response to
sound waves, reducing sound transmission. A row of concrete blocks can
be used, or for less weight bricks or even hardcore.


===Sound absorbent fill===
Sound absorbent filling can reduce plasterboard resonance, reducing
sound transmission. It also acts as a slight barrier to sound
conduction through the cavity. To be effective the fill needs to be

stiff, dense batts are ok, rolled loft [[insulation]] isn't. The
denser the batts the better, acoustic grades are denser than thermal
insulation and give more result at more cost. Greater density can be
achieved with rockwool than glass fibre.

Fibreglass & mineral wool fill improve fire resistance. Scrap
[[carpet]] isn't a good filling. It has weight and some damping, but


is flammable, and spills out in a fire, making things worse.


===Staggered frames===

__ __


| | __ | | __
| | | | | | | |
|__| | | |__| | |
|__| |__|

Bird's eye view

Constructing 2 separate frames within the one wall decouples the 2
sides of the wall from each other, reducing sound transmission over
much of the frequency spectrum. The 2 frames are staggered as shown to


avoid the wall becoming twice as thick. However this does mean a lot

more wood use, and only thin noggings can be used.

Sound transmission actually increases at the cavity's resonant
frequency if the board is undamped, so batts or other damping are
needed.


===Mass loaded vinyl===
Sand filled vinyl sheet was developed as a replacement for lead sheet
for soundproofing. MLV is applied to the frame, [[tape]]d at the joins
and boarded over. MLV provides mass & an extra barrier.

Roofing felt isn't a good substitute, its flammable & lighter.


===Viscoelastic polymer===
2 layers of plasterboard are used per side with viscoelastic polymer
gloop between them. The polymer gives damping, but its not one of the
cheapest options.


===Resilient bars===
Thin steel bars stiffen the frame. Most useful on light frames.


===Isolation clips===
These isolate the plasterboard from the framing.


==Less popular methods==
===Lead lining===

Lead lining is the forerunner of mass loaded vinyl. Its very effective
but not cheap. Lead sheet is fixed to the studs or the finished wall
and overboarded. It provides mass and damping. Lead can be toxic to
children so none may be left exposed, covered its safe though.


===Sand===
A thin layer of sand on ceilings provides mass and damping. Sand is
very good at finding cracks & gaps and disappearing down them, care is
needed in this respect. The sand is placed from above. Don't be
tempted to use lots of sand, it only takes a little to provide
damping, and excess weight can bring down a ceiling.


===Plaster===
When a wall has one skin of plasterboard applied, wet plaster is
applied to the back of the PB to make it more rigid. No need for
neatness or thoroughness makes it a fairly quick job. The extra
plaster thickess improves rigidity, reducing plaster deflection &
resonance.

The different resonant frequency of the 2 plasterboard sides means
that at each resonant frequency, where sound transmission is a maximum
for one side, its blocked by the other side.

Other leftovers can also be used, such as lime plaster, tile adhesive
& grout, artex, filler etc.


===Panels===
When a wall has one skin of plasterboard applied, panels of any sheet

material to hand can be applied to the back of the PB to make it more
rigid. This adds stiffness and weight, reducing deflection &
resonance.

Plasterboard & other sheet material offcuts can be used. Pieces don't
need to be cut to match the shape of the PB, any odd bits all help add
mass & stiffness, and it gets rid of the waste.

Plasterboard offcuts can be stuck with [[PVA]], high grab [[adhesive]]
or plaster. Wood based sheets can also be [[screw]]ed from the plaster
side.

Whole 4x8 sheets under the plasterboard are better and quicker, but
not free.


===Scrap timber===
Assorted timber offcuts can be fixed across plasterboard expanses to
reduce plasterboard deflection & resonance. This differs from noggings
in that
* the timber can be whatever size is to hand, typically much smaller
than the frame
* connecting the timber to the wood frame is optional
* the timber doesn't add to frame rigidity
* several stiffening pieces are used per panel
* length isn't critical, pieces a bit too long are just placed on at
an angle.
* The pieces can be fixed on with [[Adhesive|high grab glue]], or
plastered & jammed into the frame.

This method is only doable when just one plasterboard skin is fitted.
Its not a common approach, but its quick, easy & costs next to
nothing, and reduces plasterboard deflection. Its useful when no more
effective measures are to be taken.

===Junk fill===
Part filling a wall cavity with construction junk (eg plasterboard
offcuts) can reduce plasterboard resonance to an extent. This is
unlikely to make a dramatic difference, but is a free way to dispose
of junk and get a little benefit.

Scrap plasterboard provides slight fire suppressance. Timber offcuts

are fuel.


==Experimental==


===Gravel fill===
[image:Gravel filled wall 4682-2.jpg|right|185px]]
[[image:Gravel funnel 4683-3.jpg|right|185px]]

Gravel filling [[stud wall]]s is not a recognised & recommended
practice. It has been tried as an experiment by a uk.d-i-yer on a
flimsy 1.5" timber frame wall with 2' stud spacing and 12mm
plasterboard. Some panels were fully filled, and achieved excellant
sound deadening, some panels were part filled, and were improved to a
lesser extent.

The work cost about £1 per 4' length of wall in materials for partial


fill, and under a fiver per 4' for complete fill. The work involved
was:
* cut a 2" hole in each panel
* shovel gravel in through a funnel (which was just the corner of a
cardboard fruit & veg tray with a hole in it)
* Holes were made good with [[filler]]

The plasterboard didn't bend visibly. However this might not be ok
with a beefier frame, the gravel weight with 2x4 studwork would be

about triple. Something lighter would be better for such frames.

In a fire, the gravel spills out and may partially smother the source
of the flames.

Wet gravel shouldn't be poured onto electrical accessories in the
wall.


==Building Regs==
Newly built partition walls should meet build regs requirements
* [http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/
approveddocuments/parte/ Part E] Resistance to sound
* [http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/
buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partb/
&usg=AFQjCNG-7lP7U5sMofelXzNQBI0Ixh0B3g Part B] Fire performance
requirements


==See Also==
* [[Partition Wall]]
* [[Sheet Materials]]
* [[:Category:Noise|More noise reduction articles]]
* [http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/architectural-
acoustics/bbc_guideacousticpractice.pdf BBC, A guide to acoustic
practice 1990]
* Camden walls & more complex multi-layer partition walls: [http://
www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-06.pdf Lightweight partitions
having improved low frequency sound insulations. G.D. Plumb ]
* [http://www.mcquaybiz.com/mcquaybiz/literature/lit_systems/AppGuide/
AG31-010lo.pdf HVAC Acoustic Fundamentals]
* [http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_450_01.pdf UFC 3-450-01 Noise
and Vibration Control, US Army]

* [http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/store/soundproofing-principles.html
Another soundproofing basics article]

[[Category:Noise]]

Terry Fields

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Dec 28, 2010, 4:28:37 AM12/28/10
to

Tabby wrote:

I'm not nit-picking - for the sake of clarity and reinforcing the
message it might be worth emphasising that the gravel chippings should
be dry.

>Gravel filling [[stud wall]]s is not a recognised & recommended
>practice. It has been tried as an experiment by a uk.d-i-yer on a
>flimsy 1.5" timber frame wall with 2' stud spacing and 12mm
>plasterboard. Some panels were fully filled, and achieved excellant
>sound deadening, some panels were part filled, and were improved to a
>lesser extent.
>
>The work cost about £1 per 4' length of wall in materials for partial
>fill, and under a fiver per 4' for complete fill. The work involved
>was:
>* cut a 2" hole in each panel
>* shovel gravel in through a funnel

shovel *dry* gravel through....etc

>(which was just the corner of a
>cardboard fruit & veg tray with a hole in it)
>* Holes were made good with [[filler]]
>
>The plasterboard didn't bend visibly. However this might not be ok
>with a beefier frame, the gravel weight with 2x4 studwork would be
>about triple. Something lighter would be better for such frames.
>
>In a fire, the gravel spills out and may partially smother the source
>of the flames.
>
>Wet gravel shouldn't be poured onto electrical accessories in the
>wall.

All granular or powdery materials have a 'tap density', whereby when
poured into a container and tapped, they can settle considerably -
this is the 'contents may settle in transit' phenomenon of cornflakes,
etc. 'Tapping' can easily add an extra 10 percent to the available
volume when the filler is 'tapped'. To get the most performance out of
the granular filling, working it in some way to get it to settle would
be advisable: add a layer, settle it, add another layer, etc.

Perhaps a sentence like "working the gravel so that it packs down as
it is added can increase the effective density of the fill and so
increase performance" might make this clear.

HTH

TF

Rob

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 5:04:19 AM12/28/10
to
On 27/12/2010 09:19, d...@gglz.com wrote:
> On Dec 27, 4:20 am, Tabby<meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
>> Feedback welcome...
>>
>> NT
>>
>> Stud wall noise reduction
snip

>
> I think it needs to reference building regulations approved documents,
> Part E:
>
> http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/parte/
>
> which contains quite a few recommendations for stud walls,
> particularly where they form a building element that needs to meet a
> standard - adding such things as additional sealing to the edges of
> walls where they meet floors and ceilings.
>
> Part B also needs a mention:
>
> http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partb/
>
> particularly where stud walls form part of a compartment and must meet
> building regs for holding back fire.

Is permission or compliance needed to partition an existing room?

I'm pretty sure that doesn't constitute 'development' (planning) but it
is 'an alteration project' - what I can't figure out is whether a simple
partition affects 'ongoing compliance of the building'.

The room I have in mind is a second floor existing attic bedroom, and
split in to two - basically because it's too difficult/expensive to heat
the whole space.

Rob

d...@gglz.com

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 9:07:17 AM12/28/10
to

> Is permission or compliance needed to partition an existing room?

Maybe.

In my understanding, if the partition created a new "habitable room",
then it should comply with building regs. So creating cupboards,
wardrobes, larders, storage rooms etc would not. Creating 2 bedrooms
out of 1, would.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 9:41:27 AM12/28/10
to


Indeed.

I had considered it here, but it would not be possible legally: only one
of the two windows is big enough to jump out of. ;-)

According to the regs, anyway. I climbed in and out of it well enough in
the building process..

Tabby

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 9:42:25 AM12/28/10
to

Why do you say would the gravel need to be dry? I used wet with no
problem.

Re packing, the voids aren't 100% full because its impractical to get
it in higher than the bottom of the filling hole, plus the stone
assumes a sloped pile type shape within the void. I didnt try packing
the gravel down, as doing so would only increase lateral loading on
the plasterboard, and the deadening effect of unpacked gravel is more
than plenty. The ungravelled bit of PB at the top is far too small to
do anything.


NT

Terry Fields

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 9:50:43 AM12/28/10
to

Tabby wrote:

>On Dec 28, 9:28 am, Terry Fields <no.spam.h...@thanks.invalid> wrote:
>> Tabby wrote:
>>
>> I'm not nit-picking - for the sake of clarity and reinforcing the
>> message it might be worth emphasising that the gravel chippings should
>> be dry.

>Why do you say would the gravel need to be dry? I used wet with no
>problem.

Just to reinforce your statement that "Wet gravel shouldn't be poured
onto electrical accessories in the wall", recognising that while all
walls need not necessarily hide electrical accessories, perhaps best
practice would be to use dry gravel.

>Re packing, the voids aren't 100% full because its impractical to get
>it in higher than the bottom of the filling hole, plus the stone
>assumes a sloped pile type shape within the void. I didnt try packing
>the gravel down, as doing so would only increase lateral loading on
>the plasterboard, and the deadening effect of unpacked gravel is more
>than plenty. The ungravelled bit of PB at the top is far too small to
>do anything.

Fair enough.


TF

Rob

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 10:05:11 AM12/28/10
to

Ah, OK, thanks. I'll just check with the council as to whether
either/both needed.

How is work like this enforced though, if the council isn't told?

In Sheffield (I'm sure it happens elsewhere) people seem to be be ever
chopping up their living space into the most ludicrous 'rooms' - houses
like mine (small-medium 3 bed terrace) is often seen as a 5 bed. I
recently got PP for an extension and discussed the proliferation of uvpc
windows with the planning officer (it's a conservation area) - he said
they don't want to know unless they are told, and even then he wasn't
sure they have enough staff to do anything about it.

Rob

Hugo Nebula

unread,
Dec 28, 2010, 10:48:27 AM12/28/10
to
[Default] On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 10:04:19 +0000, a certain chimpanzee,

Rob <ngo...@gmail.com>, randomly hit the keyboard and wrote:

>Is permission or compliance needed to partition an existing room?
>
>I'm pretty sure that doesn't constitute 'development' (planning) but it
>is 'an alteration project' - what I can't figure out is whether a simple
>partition affects 'ongoing compliance of the building'.
>
>The room I have in mind is a second floor existing attic bedroom, and
>split in to two - basically because it's too difficult/expensive to heat
>the whole space.

Provided it is not done as part of a change of use (i.e., house to
flats, creating 'rooms for residential purposes' in a house in
multiple occupation, etc.), then if the work (at any stage) adversely
affects the structure or fire safety of the building, a Building
Regulations application would be required.

If you were to partition a room into two separate rooms, for example,
and you accessed the new room via a (fire)door through a
non-loadbearing wall onto a landing, then you have not adversely
affected the means of escape or the structure, so an application would
not be required. If however, you created a room off an existing room,
or put a doorway through a loadbearing wall (necessitating a lintel
over), then this would be a material alteration requiring a Building
Regulations application.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

Tabby

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Dec 28, 2010, 11:04:47 AM12/28/10
to

Can we simply quote that in teh article?


NT

Hugo Nebula

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Dec 29, 2010, 3:56:21 PM12/29/10
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[Default] On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:04:47 -0800 (PST), a certain
chimpanzee, Tabby <meow...@care2.com>, randomly hit the keyboard and
wrote:

Provided you clarify it: the above applies to England and Wales only;
other parts of the UK have different regulations. You are also advised
to check with Building Control at your local Council, as their
interpretation of the Regulations may vary.

Tabby

unread,
Dec 29, 2010, 7:30:52 PM12/29/10
to
On Dec 29, 8:56 pm, Hugo Nebula <abuse@localhost> wrote:
> [Default] On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:04:47 -0800 (PST), a certain
> chimpanzee, Tabby <meow2...@care2.com>, randomly hit the keyboard and

> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Dec 28, 3:48 pm, Hugo Nebula <abuse@localhost> wrote:
> >> Provided it is not done as part of a change of use (i.e., house to
> >> flats, creating 'rooms for residential purposes' in a house in
> >> multiple occupation, etc.), then if the work (at any stage) adversely
> >> affects the structure or fire safety of the building, a Building
> >> Regulations application would be required.
>
> >> If you were to partition a room into two separate rooms, for example,
> >> and you accessed the new room via a (fire)door through a
> >> non-loadbearing wall onto a landing, then you have not adversely
> >> affected the means of escape or the structure, so an application would
> >> not be required. If however, you created a room off an existing room,
> >> or put a doorway through a loadbearing wall (necessitating a lintel
> >> over), then this would be a material alteration requiring a Building
> >> Regulations application.
>
> >Can we simply quote that in teh article?
>
> Provided you clarify it: the above applies to England and Wales only;
> other parts of the UK have different regulations. You are also advised
> to check with Building Control at your local Council, as their
> interpretation of the Regulations may vary.

cheers. done.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Stud_wall_noise_reduction#Building_Regs


NT

d...@gglz.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 6:20:42 AM12/30/10
to

> If you were to partition a room into two separate rooms, for example,
> and you accessed the new room via a (fire)door through a
> non-loadbearing wall onto a landing, then you have not adversely
> affected the means of escape or the structure, so an application would
> not be required.

And both rooms met the requirements for total opening area of windows
for ventilation (5% of floor space or use alternative fixed
ventilation), and opening area of windows if means of escape is
required (at least 450mm by 450mm and a minimum area of 0.3m2, no more
than 1.2m above floor level - all IIRC).

So a thoroughly planned job requires a reading through of Part B fire
protection, Part E sound, and Part F ventilation, to check for gotchas
in relation to that particular design.

In practice, I'm sure few people pay much attention to the regs in
small unsupervised projects not under building control. But I think we
have a responsibility to draw attention to all the relevant regs,
rather than someone comes a cropper when the BCO calls.

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