Stud partition - how thin can it be?

[flyg...@googlemail.com]

hi all
Am looking to put up a stud partition to divide a large bedroom into 2
smaller rooms. In the interests of saving a few square inches, what is
the thinnest a partition wall can be and still count as a partition
wall? Not fussy about materials - maybe there is a metal option? I am
looking for a partition of just less than 4 mtrs in total

tia!

[Simon]

On 1 July, 22:48, "flygoa...@googlemail.com"

The partitions they use in offices are very thin. Metal with
plasterboard each side I think.
If you want to comply with building regs, you need mineral wool inside
the wall.
Someone else may have details of this system.
Personally, I would use 75mm studs, PB each side, overall wall 100mm
thick.
There was a system used by house builders once that was basically
several sheets of
plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it
though.
Simon.

[Matty F]

On Jul 2, 9:48 am, "flygoa...@googlemail.com"

I made partitions out of 18mm particle board flooring. It was
supported firmly at the top and bottom and had steel pins in the
joins.
Probably entirely illegal, but it lasted until the kids grew up.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You CAN go down to 2" but its awful shonky. 3" is probably a serious
minimum with wood.

[John Stumbles]

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:23 -0700, Simon wrote:

> There was a system used by house builders once that was basically
> several sheets of
> plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it
> though.

Do you mean the type that had 2 sheets with cardboard ribs between them
(think of corrugated cardboard construction but bigger and plasterboard
rather than card for the flat surfaces)? Spawn of the devil. :-(

--
John Stumbles

Xenophobia? Sounds a bit foreign to me.

[Anna Kettle]

I built a wall which is a sandwich

12mm ply
3mm sound insulating foam
12mm ply

I first fitted angle iron around the edge of the wall-to-be and then
trapped it in the ply sandwich. This has worked fine, is rigid and
pretty soundproof and lightweight things can be hung from the wall
too.

Possible gotchas:

- The return of the angle iron is visible on the side walls and needs
to be hidden somehow which was easy in my shower room but might
require more thought in a bedroom
- My wall was not very wide (1.5m). I suppose a wider wall might tend
to flex

Anna

[stan]

If overall thickness of the wall is of great concern; a suggestion.
Here, where we use wood frame construction most extensively (almost
exclusively) and it is simpler for a non professional carpenter, such
a myself;
The thinnest I would go with might be 2" by 3" (50 a 75 mm) wood studs
and probably install, them 'on the flat' so that wall frame will be
only 50 mm thick. Use screws rather than nails; use a single bottom
sole 2x3 plate, securely fastened to existing floor and a top plate
also securely fastened. Using 2by 3s on edge like that is a bit tricky
but can be done, by making them a tight fit and using screws at an
angle. Also extra bridging between studs, for stiffness.
On each side use either 3/8 inch or half inch plasterboard (fire-
code?) . Use plasterboard screws; also consider using construction
glue glue to affix the PB to studs to make a stiffer wall.
Sound proofing won't be the best because both sides of the wall will
be fastened to each wood stud. Although f.glass insulation or acoustic
batts may help.
A regular 2 by 4 (50 by 100mm) stud wall especially with half inch
sheet rock each side and baseboards will have an overall thickness of
roughly 5.5 inches 138mm!!!!!
More adventurous and lightweight could be to rip 2 by 4s down into 2
by 2s (or buy 2x2 studs) and build a very light weight wall; depending
on the PB sheeting each side for stiffness.
PS. Someone gave me a bunch 2by8 and 2by6 from a deteriorated old deck
and fence; making sure all nails were out I was able to run through
bench saw to make usable 2by 6 and 2by4, some of the 'new' 2by6 is now
part of two rough work benches (it was free!). The rotten edge off
cuts and ones not worth saving are for the old Jotul wood stove.
Various 2by4 some more than 8 feet, always useful.

[John]

......"There was a system used by house builders once that was basically

several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves
on it
though."

My 1988 house has this construction.

The ceiling and the floor had a strip of wood nailed on and then
plasterboard was fitted to one side. Scraps of plasterboard were stuck onto
the inside face and then another sheet was bonded to it to create the other
side.

I am not impressed, athough I have had no problems in practice. In my spare
room I have a wall mounted cupboard above my PC. It hasn't fallen yet and
has all my discs and protographic stuff in it.

It is very poor at sound insulation.

Is this type of construction still allowed? What was it called? Were there
any regulations controlling this type of construction?

[Franko]

"John" <Who90...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:fB_2m.12764$wR3....@newsfe21.ams2...

This was called laminating - I had to do a few houses some 15 years back and
found it horrible.
Reasonably solid once completed but a pig of a job to carry out.
You had to put up ceiling and floor battens first, followed by 20mm square
uprights and then try to nail a layer of 12.5mm plasterboard to one side.
Next was a layer of plank (19mm plasterboard) laminated to the inner face
with a sloppy mix of drywall adhesive and providing cutouts for services
(cables, pipes etc) followed by the final layer of 12.5mm plasterboard being
both stuck and nailed.

I haven't heard of it being done for a while though so probably not done any
more.

The other method was paramount dry partition - this was 2 layers of
plasterboard with a corrugated cardboard type inner section. Almost as
horrible to erect as lamnating.
This needed a top and bottom track fitted first, followed by an upright fixe
to one wall.
The paramount was then cut to height and then slid onto between the battens
until it fitted over the upright stud.
Then another upright stud was hammered halfway into the open side and nailed
to fix.
The process then continued with the next sheet.

To the OP - quite a few new homes still have reasonably thin partition
walls - 50mm metal stud with 25mm acoustic partition roll (fibreglass)
inbetween.
Add 12.5mm plasterboard each side and this will give you a 75mm total
thickness.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Thats about as thin as it gets in office demountable partitioning, and
even there 3 " plus 1" of plasterboard is more common.

[Simon]

On 2 July, 12:59, <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 2 Jul,  

>      John Stumbles <john.stumb...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:23 -0700, Simon wrote:
>
> > > There was a system used by house builders once that was basically
> > > several sheets of
> > > plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it
> > > though.
>
> > Do you mean the type that had 2 sheets with cardboard ribs between them
> > (think of corrugated cardboard construction but bigger and plasterboard
> > rather than card for the flat surfaces)? Spawn of the devil. :-(
>

> Paramount partition? Now called something else. I've a couple of walls of it.
> Excellent for a thinner than usual wall, and /will/ take shelves, as long as
> you fit suitable lats behind when constructing.
>
> Gyproc laminated partitions are even thinner, comprising the surface layers
> of plasterboard gliued to a core of 19mm gyproc plank with bonding compound.
> I've one of those in my kitchen extension, which has had heavy cupboards on
> it for 25 years without moving, and the downstairs bog is partitioned out of
> the futility room with them.
>
> Both excellent for the purpose, although different to trad construction.
>
How do you fix a door to them ? You must have some kind of frame for
door openings - 2" stud ?
Simon.

[carolinek...@gmail.com]

Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas..

[Andy Burns]

carolinek...@gmail.com wrote:

> I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall

50mm metal U channel / C stud plus 12.5mm plasterboard each side will
give you 75mm total thickness and be pretty standard, no issues with
'safety'

[tim...]

<carolinek...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:620b4486-b851-4d46...@googlegroups.com...

> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No
> idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then
> 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas..

if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of
fire protection

double skin plasterboard gives that

a timber wall will not

I should also be sufficiently sound proofed

filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that

[Fredxx]

On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote:
>
>
> <carolinek...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:620b4486-b851-4d46...@googlegroups.com...
>> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10.
>> No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame
>> and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too..
>> any ideas..
>
> if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of
> fire protection
>
> double skin plasterboard gives that
>
> a timber wall will not

Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded
wall with wooden panelling?

> I should also be sufficiently sound proofed

Ideally yes, but is there any regulation within a single dwelling?

> filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that

And possibly using alternate/different vertical studs for attaching
plasterboard either side.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 22/06/2020 13:58, carolinek...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas..
>

You can get away, but not eliminate entirely, thinner studs with a
plywood/mdf cladding.
6mm or 9 mm mdf makes a pretty good wall over a 2x2 frame


--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

[Andy Burns]

Fredxx wrote:

> tim... wrote:
>
>> I should also be sufficiently sound proofed
>
> Ideally yes, but is there any regulation within a single dwelling?

Yes, reasonable resistance to sound is required
between [bedrooms or toilets] and [other rooms] per building regs E2(a)
might vary between new build and alterations

[John]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:rcqkco$9k2$2...@dont-email.me:

> On 22/06/2020 13:58, carolinek...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only
>> 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a
>> frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe
>> too.. any ideas..
>>
> You can get away, but not eliminate entirely, thinner studs with a
> plywood/mdf cladding.
> 6mm or 9 mm mdf makes a pretty good wall over a 2x2 frame
>
>

All my upstars walls are plasterboard (only) spaced with scraps of
platerboard. Sat on a 2 x1 edge on and similar at ceiling. Absolute crap.

[Tricky Dicky]

There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing in fact we had one here separating the pantry from the kitchen. The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec.

Richard

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 22/06/2020 18:41, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing in fact we had one here separating the pantry from the kitchen. The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec.
>
> Richard
>

Paramount partition ? ....

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Andy Burns]

Tricky Dicky wrote:

> There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing

Paramount board, my upstairs internal walls are made from it, it's not
so bad, total thickness about 63mm.

[Andy Burns]

Tricky Dicky wrote:

> The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper
> honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin
> studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern
> housing so may now not be up to spec.

There's an equivalent on sale

<https://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/honeycomb-panel>

[John Rumm]

On 22/06/2020 16:00, Fredxx wrote:
> On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> <carolinek...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:620b4486-b851-4d46...@googlegroups.com...
>>> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only
>>> 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a
>>> frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe
>>> too.. any ideas..
>>
>> if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount
>> of fire protection
>>
>> double skin plasterboard gives that
>>
>> a timber wall will not
>
> Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded
> wall with wooden panelling?

Building regs approved document B:

"Internal fire spread (linings)
B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the
internal linings shall-
(a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their
surfaces; and
(b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of
fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances.
(2) In this paragraph “internal linings” means the materials
or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other
internal structure."


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[ARW]

Piss easy to work on and add new stuff to if your measurements are correct.


--
Adam

[Andrew]

On 22/06/2020 13:58, carolinek...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas..
>

To stop them fighting, or does it need to be soundproof.

If you were to let out your house to an east european, they
would install it for free, and in all the other rooms too :-)

[Vir Campestris]

On 22/06/2020 20:07, John Rumm wrote:
>
> Building regs approved document B:
>
> "Internal fire spread (linings)
> B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the
> internal linings shall-
> (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their
> surfaces; and
> (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of
> fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances.
> (2) In this paragraph “internal linings” means the materials
> or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other
> internal structure."

Does this mean you can no longer have timber panelled walls?

Andy

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Could always use intumescent varnish or paint


NT

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 22/06/2020 19:05, Andy Burns wrote:

hey I just said that....

[John]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in news:hlcan6Falk6U2
@mid.individual.net:

Mine do not have honeycomb. There are scraps of plasterboard used as
filling for the sandwich. I am not advocating it - but I did watch the
houses being built (1988). I live in one.
The outer skin was nailed to a batten on the floor and ceiling. Thin
door frames were used.

[Fredxx]

Thanks, as per:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents/63/part_b_-_fire_safety

Shame that ISO EN 13501 is not published too.

I'm left wondering if a wooden studded wall would conform to 'D'.

[Fredxx]

Thanks, as per:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents/67/part_e_-_resistance_to_the_passage_of_sound

But doesn't say what reasonable actually is.

Especially when the alternative is no wall, or a wall with a door fitted.

[Andrew]

Often wondered how those 'build your house for £50K' programs
got away with using OSB in place of internal plasterboarding
for 'visual effect' ?. How did they get that past the BCO ?.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <rcqe1s$sbu$1...@dont-email.me>,

tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I should also be sufficiently sound proofed

> filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that

Makes very little difference to the sound insulation. Thicker plasterboard
does.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Rumm]

Having just looked at part 1 (there are 6 of them, its not a riveting read!)

>
> I'm  left wondering if a wooden studded wall would conform to 'D'.

D?

[Fredxx]

https://tristonesolidsurfaces.uk/fire-ratings

Grade D - Combustible materials: Medium contribution to fire

[Fredxx]

On 23/06/2020 13:36:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <rcqe1s$sbu$1...@dont-email.me>,
> tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I should also be sufficiently sound proofed
>
>> filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that
>
> Makes very little difference to the sound insulation. Thicker plasterboard
> does.

There are a massive range of rockwool sound insulation products on the
market. I'm sure plain old rockwool would be far better than nothing.