Gas Cookers In Flats
stillno...@gmail.com
hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
I was looking at what's available and saw this one
http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1787612518.1214918583@@@@
&BV_EngineID=ccejadeehhjfflicflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=4&sm=4&tm=1&sku=755072&category_oid=-30561
but the first thing that struck me was the comment that it " May not
be installed in flats" .
WTF is that all about ? I live in a 2nd floor flat and flats have
always had gas appliances,cookers,Ch ,fires etc .
PeterMcC
<a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6...@4ax.com>
Ronan Point?
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
>stillno...@gmail.com wrote in
><a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6...@4ax.com>
>
>> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
>> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
>> I was looking at what's available and saw this one
>>
>http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1787612518.1214918583@@@@
>>
>&BV_EngineID=ccejadeehhjfflicflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=4&sm=4&tm=1&s
>ku=755072&category_oid=-30561
>>
>> but the first thing that struck me was the comment that it " May not
>> be installed in flats" .
>>
>> WTF is that all about ? I live in a 2nd floor flat and flats have
>> always had gas appliances,cookers,Ch ,fires etc .
>
>Ronan Point?
Yeah .That was 30 years ago !!!!!
I've since found this ...This new ROOL has been made up by the IGEM in
cohort with CORGI .
It started just this year in January .
http://www.igem.org.uk/download/document/IGE-G-5_Amendments_(January_2008).pdf
PeterMcC
<uvik64h84smv6ta4q...@4ax.com>
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:05:35 +0100, "PeterMcC" <pe...@mccourt.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> stillno...@gmail.com wrote in
>> <a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6...@4ax.com>
>>
>>> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
>>> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
>>> I was looking at what's available and saw this one
>>>
>>
http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1787612518.1214918583@@@@
>>>
>>
&BV_EngineID=ccejadeehhjfflicflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=4&sm=4&tm=1&s
>> ku=755072&category_oid=-30561
>>>
>>> but the first thing that struck me was the comment that it " May
>>> not be installed in flats" .
>>>
>>> WTF is that all about ? I live in a 2nd floor flat and flats have
>>> always had gas appliances,cookers,Ch ,fires etc .
>>
>> Ronan Point?
>
> Yeah .That was 30 years ago !!!!!
>
But for those of us in the adjacent tower blocks, it seems like yesterday :)
Ed Sirett
I've only just got up to speed with this.
It appears that all the rings on a cooker that is to go into a flat must
have some sort of flame failure device.
Cookers which don't comply can't be fitted. Older cookers which happen to
have been fitted are to be categorized as "Not to current standards"
which means they are allowed to remain.
This situation, say, is much the same as if an electrician comes across a
consumer unit with rewire-able fuses. Which is part of an installation in
good order designed to the 15th regs. The installation is safe enough to
stay in use but the design isn't good enough to install today.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
stillno...@gmail.com
<e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:27:39 +0100, stillnobodyhome wrote:
>
>> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
>> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker . I was looking
>> at what's available and saw this one
>> http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?
>BV_SessionID=@@@@1787612518.1214918583@@@@
>>
>&BV_EngineID=ccejadeehhjfflicflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=4&sm=4&tm=1&sku=755072&category_oid=-30561
>>
>> but the first thing that struck me was the comment that it " May not
>> be installed in flats" .
>>
>> WTF is that all about ? I live in a 2nd floor flat and flats have always
>> had gas appliances,cookers,Ch ,fires etc .
>
>
>I've only just got up to speed with this.
>It appears that all the rings on a cooker that is to go into a flat must
>have some sort of flame failure device.
>
>Cookers which don't comply can't be fitted. Older cookers which happen to
>have been fitted are to be categorized as "Not to current standards"
>which means they are allowed to remain.
>
>This situation, say, is much the same as if an electrician comes across a
>consumer unit with rewire-able fuses. Which is part of an installation in
>good order designed to the 15th regs. The installation is safe enough to
>stay in use but the design isn't good enough to install today.
And it looks like cooker man'frs are not up to speed with it . Curry's
and Comet don't appear to have cookers these devices fitted on sale
unless they are still disposing of older stock .
Andy Wade
> This situation, say, is much the same as if an electrician comes across a
> consumer unit with rewire-able fuses. Which is part of an installation in
> good order designed to the 15th regs. The installation is safe enough to
> stay in use but the design isn't good enough to install today.
Bad example: rewireable fuses to BS 3036 are still permitted for new
installations, even under the 17th edition which came into full force today.
However circuits with non-RCD protected T&E cables in walls, non-RCD
protected bathroom circuits and non-RCD'd general-purpose sockets are
all now 'NCS' (code 4 on a PIR).
--
Andy
Owain
> It appears that all the rings on a cooker that is to go into a flat must
> have some sort of flame failure device.
> Cookers which don't comply can't be fitted.
Is this The Law, or CORGI "guidance"?
Owain
stillno...@gmail.com
That's what I wondered when I read a thread on moneysavingexpert.com
where folk were talking about it .That's where I found the links to
IGEM and CORGI It seems that if you want one fitted without this
device and you want a CORGI to fit it then they won't ( or shouldn't)
http://www.igem.org.uk/download/document/TB_218_Gas_in_Flats_Requirement_to_install_FSDs_on_flueless_gas_appliances_(06.08).pdf
I'm not sure what happens if a Corgi goes against this "advice" and
fits one anyway and some mishap occurs .
Bob Mannix
news:29lm64hdt55u8uqul...@4ax.com...
An opinion..
IANAL but I would say the situation was clear - if you go against the
published guidelines of a recognised body (such as the IGE) and there is a
problem connected with your failure to comply, the occupant/owner or any
other affected third party would have a [very] strong case for culpable
negligence they could take to law.
Not something you would risk if a CORGI (who, by definition should be aware
of the guidelines). Whether a non-CORGI could plead ignorance is also
doubtful but less clear (I would say).
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
That last link I posted has again changed the goalposts because of a
lack of appliances fitted with this FSD .What I'm not sure on reading
this PDF ( Page 3) it is if ,after 1st June 2008 ,you can still get
one without the device fitted .It appears that you can but it will be
classed as NCS but what that means in practice is anyones guess
..maybe leaving it in place but labelled as such .I was trying to copy
and paste from that PDF but can't figure out how to do it .
Rod
> and paste from that PDF but can't figure out how to do it .
>
They exclude terraced houses - which seems a bit odd. The (possible) gas
explosion the other day (Herts. somewhere IIRC) seems to have severely
affected the neighbours. I'd guess this was simply because they didn't
think including such properties would be accepted. And I'd also guess
that many older terraced properties are a lot less able to withstand a
gas blast than many modern purpose built properties that are covered.
Seems home cheistry might be out - never seen a bunsen burner with an FSD.
--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
You wonder just how many potential gas escapes these devices will
actually prevent .I'd have thought that there would be far more other
reasons for gas escapes than a cooker's gas flame blowing out .
stillno...@gmail.com
snipped
>>
>>They exclude terraced houses - which seems a bit odd. The (possible) gas
>>explosion the other day (Herts. somewhere IIRC) seems to have severely
>>affected the neighbours. I'd guess this was simply because they didn't
>>think including such properties would be accepted. And I'd also guess
>>that many older terraced properties are a lot less able to withstand a
>>gas blast than many modern purpose built properties that are covered.
>>
>>Seems home cheistry might be out - never seen a bunsen burner with an FSD.
>
>You wonder just how many potential gas escapes these devices will
>actually prevent .I'd have thought that there would be far more other
>reasons for gas escapes than a cooker's gas flame blowing out .
I'm not sure if I forgot to post the most recent advice pdf from IGEM
Here it is
http://www.igem.org.uk/download/document/TB_218_Gas_in_Flats_Requirement_to_install_FSDs_on_flueless_gas_appliances_(06.08).pdf
Rod
If they (FSDs) are such a wonderful improvement - why not mandate them
everywhere? In fact, why were they not mandated years ago? Negligence by
the standards people not having done so?
It's OK to blow up your neighbours if it is a secondhand cooker?
Seems to me it should actually cover hotels with manager/owner
accommodation as part of the building. That will be fun in the kitchens.
Anyone happen to know if the flueless gas fires that seem to be so
available have FSDs fitted?
Ed Sirett
There is an exemption for (very small) gas rings (and presumably that
would include a bunsen burner) of less than 0.6kW.
Ed Sirett
> stillno...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:54:28 +0100, stillno...@gmail.com wrote:
>> snipped
>>>> They exclude terraced houses - which seems a bit odd. The (possible)
>>>> gas explosion the other day (Herts. somewhere IIRC) seems to have
>>>> severely affected the neighbours. I'd guess this was simply because
>>>> they didn't think including such properties would be accepted. And
>>>> I'd also guess that many older terraced properties are a lot less
>>>> able to withstand a gas blast than many modern purpose built
>>>> properties that are covered.
>>>>
>>>> Seems home cheistry might be out - never seen a bunsen burner with an
>>>> FSD.
>>> You wonder just how many potential gas escapes these devices will
>>> actually prevent .I'd have thought that there would be far more other
>>> reasons for gas escapes than a cooker's gas flame blowing out .
>>
>> I'm not sure if I forgot to post the most recent advice pdf from IGEM
>> Here it is
>> http://www.igem.org.uk/download/document/
TB_218_Gas_in_Flats_Requirement_to_install_FSDs_on_flueless_gas_appliances_
(06.08).pdf
>
> If they (FSDs) are such a wonderful improvement - why not mandate them
> everywhere?
Almost every other gas appliance has them in ne form or another.
Older gas fires (the gas vents up the chimney) and very old domestic
ovens don't.
In fact, why were they not mandated years ago? Negligence by
> the standards people not having done so?
>
> It's OK to blow up your neighbours if it is a secondhand cooker?
No.
>
> Seems to me it should actually cover hotels with manager/owner
> accommodation as part of the building. That will be fun in the kitchens.
>
Most commercial kitchen appliances are interlocked to the correct
functioning of the the extraction system. This is rather better than a 6"
fan!
> Anyone happen to know if the flueless gas fires that seem to be so
> available have FSDs fitted?
Most certainly the FSD will also double up as an ASD to detect oxygen
depletion.
Rod
want the sort of answers you helpfully provided. But the document says
that it was not intend to apply to secondhand appliances? I just
exaggerated.
So if the hotel kitchen fans are not working, the gas doesn't flow?
Makes sense. So perhaps my comment actually gets reduced in scope to
those that do not do so.
Owain
> There is an exemption for (very small) gas rings (and presumably that
> would include a bunsen burner) of less than 0.6kW.
According to
http://www.durhamgeo.com/testing/laboratory/ovens-bunsen.htm
bunsen burners produce 5000 BTU per hour, or 1.465 kWH
(onlineconversion.com). I might have got the units wrong.
Owain
Dave Plowman (News)
<stillno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
Why? You've got the ideal combination there.
--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
stillno...@gmail.com
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6...@4ax.com>,
> <stillno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
>> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
>
>Why? You've got the ideal combination there.
Please explain why you think that ? What's wrong with gas ovens ?
Bob Mannix
news:rs9p64d1h6fqd6apg...@4ax.com...
It can depend on your style of cooking - what's right with them is also
what's wrong with them - they are cold at the bottom! There are quite
determined cooks who view this as a Good Thing and fair play to them (each
to their own) but, for speed, convenience and feeding more people with other
than a traditional roast, many are won over by fan ovens. For me, taking
into account space, price, looks, the ideal combination is a gas hob plus an
electric fan double oven with the top oven doubling as a grill.
Tim Downie
Having had both, I have to agree. There are occasions when I slighty miss
having the temperature zones of a gas oven but the disadvantages are more
than outweighed by the better performance of the fan oven at all other
times.
It's my impression that gas ovens rarely have the heat output required to
cook larger quantities of food. Try cooking lots of baked potatoes in a gas
oven and they take an age (and need shuffling round to avoid over/under
cooking). My fan over seems to lose much less heat (presumably due to
having much smaller vents) than my old gas oven.
Tim
stillno...@gmail.com
So perhaps I should be considering replacing my fan assisted oven with
another one and just keeping the gas hob . The one I have ,Indesit
single oven with grill ,doesn't heat to the marked temperature so I
need to use a thermometer and I hate the grill which is when I wish I
had my old eye-level gas grill .
Bob Mannix
news:48cp649hurjeu013i...@4ax.com...
Single oven with grill is a bit pants if they are separate. If the grill is
in the oven then it's really pants! Get a double oven where the top oven
(which may or not be fan) doubles as the grill. The trade off is in the size
of the lower oven but this is more than compensated for by having another
oven/grill
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
LOL...Mine is "really pants " then . A single F/A oven with the grill
element in .A smaller oven wouldn't be a loss as I only cook for
myself .
Dave Plowman (News)
A good electric one is likely to be far more accurate temperature wise.
Negating the need to 'learn' your oven if you follow recipes. Of course
some like the temperature differential you get between top and bottom on a
gas one - that's just choice. Electric don't get so dirty either -
especially fan ones with the even temperature.
The ideal one to me is a double oven - both fan assisted - where the top
one includes a grill.
--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *
Bob Mannix
news:4fb922f...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <rs9p64d1h6fqd6apg...@4ax.com>,
> <stillno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:50:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >In article <a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6...@4ax.com>,
>> > <stillno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I am presently using a gas hob and an electric oven fan assisted but
>> >> hope to go back to the sensible option of a gas cooker .
>> >
>> >Why? You've got the ideal combination there.
>
>> Please explain why you think that ? What's wrong with gas ovens ?
>
> A good electric one is likely to be far more accurate temperature wise.
> Negating the need to 'learn' your oven if you follow recipes. Of course
> some like the temperature differential you get between top and bottom on a
> gas one - that's just choice. Electric don't get so dirty either -
> especially fan ones with the even temperature.
> The ideal one to me is a double oven - both fan assisted - where the top
> one includes a grill.
>
and top get just as dirty but the base in a fan oven is worse as stuff bakes
on whereas it can stay a bit gloopy in a gas oven and therefore easier to
clean.
And I feel an non-fan electric oven is no more accurate than a gas oven. A
fan oven *will* be more accurate
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
>"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
.Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" . My present
one is "built under" but is it possible to put a "built in" below a
worktop or is this not feasable ?
One I looked at was 900mm deep which would mean it was almost sitting
on the floor in my case . I'm guessing these ones are intended to go
in to units so they are placed much higher up at face level..
stuart noble
> Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
> .Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" .
Don't forget the "slot-in" variety (whatever that means).
I feel inclined to have a free standing gas cooker with the glass lid
but I've no doubt there is some regulation stating that it has to be a
certain distance from adjoining base units.
Bob Mannix
news:8Znbk.77668$GF6....@newsfe27.ams2...
>
>> Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
>> .Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" .
>
>
> Don't forget the "slot-in" variety (whatever that means).
> I feel inclined to have a free standing gas cooker with the glass lid but
> I've no doubt there is some regulation stating that it has to be a certain
> distance from adjoining base units.
I have had a slot in gas cooker with lid before. It was fine and can go up
against the cabinets. Beware 500/600mm wide variants - I discovered the
600mm wide one I bought had the same oven and grill as the 500mm wide one
with bigger gaps at the side!
The last such I bought was one of these
which embodies all the good things (dual fuel, fan oven, separate top oven
etc) and did the biz. Now have more stylish kitchen with built under double
oven and gas hob (Hotpoint).
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
>
Bob Mannix
news:g4l74i$t4a$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> "stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:8Znbk.77668$GF6....@newsfe27.ams2...
>>
>>> Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
>>> .Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" .
>>
>>
>> Don't forget the "slot-in" variety (whatever that means).
>> I feel inclined to have a free standing gas cooker with the glass lid but
>> I've no doubt there is some regulation stating that it has to be a
>> certain distance from adjoining base units.
>
> I have had a slot in gas cooker with lid before. It was fine and can go up
> against the cabinets. Beware 500/600mm wide variants - I discovered the
> 600mm wide one I bought had the same oven and grill as the 500mm wide one
> with bigger gaps at the side!
>
> The last such I bought was one of these
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5ks86v
>
> which embodies all the good things (dual fuel, fan oven, separate top oven
> etc) and did the biz. Now have more stylish kitchen with built under
> double oven and gas hob (Hotpoint).
>
I should point out that the one shown above does *not* suffer from the
500/600 scam!
meow...@care2.com
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:18:10 +0100, "Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk>
> wrote:
> >news:48cp649hurjeu013i...@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:52:59 +0100, "Tim Downie"
> >>>Bob Mannix wrote:
> >>>> <stillnobodyh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:rs9p64d1h6fqd6apg...@4ax.com...
> >>>> > On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:50:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>
> >>>> > > In article <a0ck64hu9fnpd88b6845bbdr4tnrel7...@4ax.com>,
> >>>> > > <stillnobodyh...@gmail.com> wrote:
If you dont need full size I'd look at a combi cooker. TBH they beat
the pants off conventional gas or electric cookers. They do exactly
the same job, plus will nuke and burn at the same time, which is soooo
fast but still with good results. And they take up way less space, and
installing is is dead easy - just plug in. And they come with built in
grill etc etc...
NT
stuart noble
> "stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:8Znbk.77668$GF6....@newsfe27.ams2...
>>> Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
>>> .Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" .
>>
>> Don't forget the "slot-in" variety (whatever that means).
>> I feel inclined to have a free standing gas cooker with the glass lid but
>> I've no doubt there is some regulation stating that it has to be a certain
>> distance from adjoining base units.
>
> I have had a slot in gas cooker with lid before. It was fine and can go up
> against the cabinets. Beware 500/600mm wide variants - I discovered the
> 600mm wide one I bought had the same oven and grill as the 500mm wide one
> with bigger gaps at the side!
>
> The last such I bought was one of these
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5ks86v
>
> which embodies all the good things (dual fuel, fan oven, separate top oven
> etc) and did the biz. Now have more stylish kitchen with built under double
> oven and gas hob (Hotpoint).
>
>
So it looks like "slot-in" just means "free standing" then? The
proximity of the cabinets seems to be a bit of a grey area. I've had one
installed like that for years, but I just have this nagging feeling it
must be illegal by now. Consulting the manufacturer hasn't been that
productive so far.
I am sort of tempted by the microwave combi idea, especially as we
already use a standard microwave a lot. I wonder what the limitations
are. Can you grill a cake? Hm, maybe not.
stillno...@gmail.com
wrote:
>"stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:8Znbk.77668$GF6....@newsfe27.ams2...
>>
>>> Thx for all the comments .I have since been looking at double ovens
>>> .Some are ,obviously ,"built under" and some "built in" .
>>
>>
>> Don't forget the "slot-in" variety (whatever that means).
>> I feel inclined to have a free standing gas cooker with the glass lid but
>> I've no doubt there is some regulation stating that it has to be a certain
>> distance from adjoining base units.
>
>I have had a slot in gas cooker with lid before. It was fine and can go up
>against the cabinets. Beware 500/600mm wide variants - I discovered the
>600mm wide one I bought had the same oven and grill as the 500mm wide one
>with bigger gaps at the side!
>
>The last such I bought was one of these
>
>http://tinyurl.com/5ks86v
I take it the grill is electric ?