Packard Bell computer driving me crazy!!!! Help!

[Dave Headley]

I know this is OT for the DIYers but there's some brilliant computer
gurus in there and I need all the help I can get as I'm losing my hair
on this one.

Right, a friend rang me to say that there had been a burning smell from
the computer (Packard Bell iMedia X2416 running Windows Vista). When I
got it there were no signs of life whatsoever - no fans or drives
spinning, no BIOS beeps, nothing. Previous experience led me to think
the PSU had died but it tested OK with all voltages being within range.
As a 'belt and braces' test I also put it into my own machine and it did
indeed power up my computer and worked well. I also tried a known good
PSU in his machine but still no life there at all.

Next I took his RAM, put it in my machine, and ran Memtest86+. I let it
complete one pass and there were no errors, so I let it continue to run
(actually left it running overnight with no errors) while I hooked his
hard drive to another spare computer I have here. It booted OK but of
course it didn't have my motherboard (or any other) drivers installed so
it complained about that but it did spin up and boot, so that's OK.

So now it's either motherboard or processor and from what I know,
processors very rarely give any trouble, so I plumped for a faulty
motherboard. I found one available on Ebay, used but tested and with
warranty (it's a MCP73PVT-PM by the way) so I got it.

I put it all together on the bench, powered up, and we now have signs of
life - but it's now in a BSOD loop. It POSTs OK and it gives one BIOS
beep as it normally would but then blue screens and reboots ad
infinitum, with an odd different BSOD thrown in for good measure. I sent
that mobo back under warranty and got another one, but this one also
displays EXACTLY the same symptoms, leading me to believe that the first
mobo I got from him wasn't actually faulty after all.

That would imply that it's the CPU at fault but I don't have a spare
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 lying around to test it with, and the cheapest I
can find is 65 quid for a used one on Ebay (brand new ones are over 100)
so I don't particularly want to go down that route.

Plus the fact that I've now got some diagnostic software (PC Check) and,
as you'll see in these photos here, the motherboard and processor pass
all tests

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/

So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
help before I tear all my hair out :-)

Cheers

[Lee]

First thing I would try is a LiveCD linux distro, doesn't really matter
which one (I like Ubuntu for this), and see if that boots without error.

Had a couple of problems before with supposed quad core capable
motherboards that actually weren't...
Does this motherboard have the exact bios and hardware revision of the
faulty one? ie does it properly support that CPU?
Do you have the bios settings set correctly?

Is the PSU up to the job? I know you said it is, but what is the rating
of the 12v rail and is it clean...

Lee

[John Rumm]

On 28/09/2011 22:24, Dave Headley wrote:

> I put it all together on the bench, powered up, and we now have signs of
> life - but it's now in a BSOD loop. It POSTs OK and it gives one BIOS
> beep as it normally would but then blue screens and reboots ad
> infinitum, with an odd different BSOD thrown in for good measure. I sent
> that mobo back under warranty and got another one, but this one also
> displays EXACTLY the same symptoms, leading me to believe that the first
> mobo I got from him wasn't actually faulty after all.

ok, do you get the boot loop without a hard drive connected? i.e. is it
actually failing in the BIOS itself?

Or is it as I expect, that it fails very shortly after attempting to
start windows?

> That would imply that it's the CPU at fault but I don't have a spare
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 lying around to test it with, and the cheapest I
> can find is 65 quid for a used one on Ebay (brand new ones are over 100)
> so I don't particularly want to go down that route.

Do you have a bootable CD you can test it with? A linux live CD, a copy
of the ultimate boot CD, or Bart PE etc. If not, download and burn one
on a working machine, and set the BIOS to allow booting from CD and give
it a go. If any of those work, then chances are the processor is fine.

> Plus the fact that I've now got some diagnostic software (PC Check) and,
> as you'll see in these photos here, the motherboard and processor pass
> all tests
>
> http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/

Those pictures are all too small to read anything useful... but the last
two do look like windows kernel panics (i.e. BSODs)

> So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
> could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
> help before I tear all my hair out :-)

If you can boot ok from a CD, then I expect you have a basic hardware
incompatibility (possibly even a HAL incompatibility) between the
windows image on the hard drive, and the new motherboard. You can
usually fix this by booting from the windows CD and doing an inplace
repair install. This should leave all data and programs intact, but
re-detect and install all the lower level drivers that can prevent a
system from booting.

IME, sometimes you can pull a fast one a swap a mobo under windows, and
it does not complain, just notices stuff is new, and detects and
reinstalls the right drivers. Other times it does what you are seeing at
some stage in the boot process ranging from almost immediately, half way
in...

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[djc]

On 28/09/11 22:24, Dave Headley wrote:


> So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
> could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
> help before I tear all my hair out :-)

If it's Windows it may be refusing to boot on what it considers a new
machine. Do you get as far as a blue screen with the system
restore/reinstall from backup option. Try testing with a Linux live CD
(eg Ubuntu) if that works then blame windows not the hardware.


--
djc

[NT]

The problem is with windows, not with the hardware. As said, fire it
up with a linux cd, should work perfectly. Note not all linux cds
run on al machines, if one wont boot try a couple of others.


NT

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <MPG.28eda0ea3...@news.btinternet.com>, Dave
Headley <no...@wanted.com> escribió:

>I know this is OT for the DIYers but there's some brilliant computer
>gurus in there a

There's plenty of on-topic groups with "brilliant computer gurus" out
there if you could be arsed to find them, it's only like a couple of
mouse clicks.

>Right, a friend rang me to say that there had been a burning smell from
>the computer (Packard Bell iMedia X2416 running Windows Vista)

If it's a Bestec PSU, it's a well known fault. The -5v line goes way
overvoltage and destroys the motherboard. Had you bothered to google,
you would have discovered this for yourself before putting the PSU in
your own computer.

Finally, there's no point whinging about BSODs without giving the STOP
errors that accompany them. The number following the STOP is needed for
any meaningful diagnosis.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[Brian Gaff]

Surely the one way to screw up the hard drive is to run it on another
computer. I think the best test to do is shove in an installation disc for
windows and see what happens.

Take all the data you can off the drive you trashed by booting it on another
set of hardware and reformat and install.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Headley" <no...@wanted.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.28eda0ea3...@news.btinternet.com...

[Reentrant]

On 28/09/2011 23:10, John Rumm wrote:

> ... You can

> usually fix this by booting from the windows CD and doing an inplace
> repair install.

For XP, yes - done it loads of times. But I don't think that's
available for Vista (or Win7); you have to do a clean OS install and
then reinstall all applications.
User Data is preserved in "windows.old".


--
Reentrant

[Mark]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 04:47:05 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
<mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote:

>En el artículo <MPG.28eda0ea3...@news.btinternet.com>, Dave
>Headley <no...@wanted.com> escribió:
>
>>I know this is OT for the DIYers but there's some brilliant computer
>>gurus in there a
>
>There's plenty of on-topic groups with "brilliant computer gurus" out
>there if you could be arsed to find them, it's only like a couple of
>mouse clicks.

Right. But this is a DIY ng and fixing a computer is DIY.

>>Right, a friend rang me to say that there had been a burning smell from
>>the computer (Packard Bell iMedia X2416 running Windows Vista)
>
>If it's a Bestec PSU, it's a well known fault. The -5v line goes way
>overvoltage and destroys the motherboard. Had you bothered to google,
>you would have discovered this for yourself before putting the PSU in
>your own computer.
>
>Finally, there's no point whinging about BSODs without giving the STOP
>errors that accompany them. The number following the STOP is needed for
>any meaningful diagnosis.

The error messages don't always help either.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

[John Rumm]

Good point, did not spot the vista bit...

A repair install is still in theory possible, but under more restrictive
conditions.

The conditions:

You must have a full install DVD and not a product recovery DVD, it must
be the same or a later version than the product installed. So for
example if your system has been patched to SP2 and your DVD predates
that, then you have to burn yourself a slipstreamed SP2 DVD first.

Ideally you need to start the process from being already logged into an
admin privileged account, rather than from booting from the DVD. So if
you can't boot that far then this particular route is not much use!

Having said that, I would suggest doing a F8 boot (i.e. hitting F8 early
in the boot sequence as the BIOS is coming to the end of its bit). To
get to the Advanced Boot Options. See if there is a "Repair your
Computer" option there. You should then be able to get as far as the
system recovery options and choose startup repair.

There are some guides here that might help:

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88009-advanced-boot-options.html
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/194765-system-recovery-options.html
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/91467-startup-repair.html

[NT]

Linux is so much easier. Mint is easy for people with no linux
experience. Its Ubuntu with its niggles fixed.


NT

[John Rumm]

I think this is the computing equivalent of sucking air in through your
teeth, and suggesting you should have bought a different car rather than
fixing the broken one!

The live CDs are handy for checking the fault boundary between hardware
and OS, and also possibly for data recovery from a non bootable drive
(assuming you can mount the file system). However that is not the same
as getting windows working again. You may well want to argue its
"better", but if that then means you can't access the applications you
need to do what you need to do, or work with your existing files, then
that is doubtful.

[Dave Headley]

In article <03f7f96e-809f-49b1-868f-
27af26...@i23g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, meow...@care2.com says...

> The problem is with windows, not with the hardware. As said, fire it
> up with a linux cd, should work perfectly. Note not all linux cds
> run on al machines, if one wont boot try a couple of others.

Hmm, well I've downloaded and burned an Ubuntu LiveCD then booted my own
machine with it to see what I could expect. It worked well and I got to
the Ubuntu desktop. However, when I tried it on the suspect machine it
doesn't work - I get a screen with two symbols at the bottom then the
screen goes black with a (system caret? cursor?) flashing in the top
left corner and does nothing else. Photo can be seen here:
http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/

Currently downloading a Knoppix image and will try with that given that
you said that not all Linux CDs will run on all machines.

Thanks for your input mate.

[Dave Headley]

In article <j605o6$4e9$1...@dont-email.me>, cyber...@ukonline.net says...

>
> First thing I would try is a LiveCD linux distro, doesn't really matter
> which one (I like Ubuntu for this), and see if that boots without error.

Tried an Ubuntu LiveCD first in my own machine and it worked well but it
would not boot in the suspect machine. I get a screen with two icons at
the bottom but nothing else except a flashing cursor in the top left
corner, picture here (just click on the photos to zoom in)
http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/

> Had a couple of problems before with supposed quad core capable
> motherboards that actually weren't...
> Does this motherboard have the exact bios and hardware revision of the
> faulty one? ie does it properly support that CPU?
> Do you have the bios settings set correctly?
>
> Is the PSU up to the job? I know you said it is, but what is the rating
> of the 12v rail and is it clean...

Yes, to all of the above.

[Dave Headley]

In article <w4ydnZtgws_ABh7T...@brightview.co.uk>,
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...

>
> On 28/09/2011 22:24, Dave Headley wrote:
>
> > I put it all together on the bench, powered up, and we now have signs of
> > life - but it's now in a BSOD loop. It POSTs OK and it gives one BIOS
> > beep as it normally would but then blue screens and reboots ad
> > infinitum, with an odd different BSOD thrown in for good measure. I sent
> > that mobo back under warranty and got another one, but this one also
> > displays EXACTLY the same symptoms, leading me to believe that the first
> > mobo I got from him wasn't actually faulty after all.
>
> ok, do you get the boot loop without a hard drive connected? i.e. is it
> actually failing in the BIOS itself?

With no hard drive connected I just get a message onscreen saying to
reboot and select proper boot device, ie, no BSOD boot loop.

> Or is it as I expect, that it fails very shortly after attempting to
> start windows?

That would appear to be the case.

> > That would imply that it's the CPU at fault but I don't have a spare
> > Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 lying around to test it with, and the cheapest I
> > can find is 65 quid for a used one on Ebay (brand new ones are over 100)
> > so I don't particularly want to go down that route.
>
> Do you have a bootable CD you can test it with? A linux live CD, a copy
> of the ultimate boot CD, or Bart PE etc. If not, download and burn one
> on a working machine, and set the BIOS to allow booting from CD and give
> it a go. If any of those work, then chances are the processor is fine.

Tried an Ubuntu LiveCD but it just shows two icons at the bottom of the
screen then they disappear aand the screen goes black with a flashing
cursor at top left then goes no further - photo here but see below
http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/

> > Plus the fact that I've now got some diagnostic software (PC Check) and,
> > as you'll see in these photos here, the motherboard and processor pass
> > all tests
> >
> > http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/
>
> Those pictures are all too small to read anything useful... but the last
> two do look like windows kernel panics (i.e. BSODs)

Sorry John, I never thought to mention it but if you click on the photos
it zooms in - keep clicking and it'll zoom to 100% and is easily
readable then starts to zoom out.

> > So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
> > could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
> > help before I tear all my hair out :-)
>
> If you can boot ok from a CD, then I expect you have a basic hardware
> incompatibility (possibly even a HAL incompatibility) between the
> windows image on the hard drive, and the new motherboard. You can
> usually fix this by booting from the windows CD and doing an inplace
> repair install. This should leave all data and programs intact, but
> re-detect and install all the lower level drivers that can prevent a
> system from booting.
>
> IME, sometimes you can pull a fast one a swap a mobo under windows, and

> it does not complain, just notices stuff is new, and detects and and

> reinstalls the right drivers. Other times it does what you are seeing
> at some stage in the boot process ranging from almost immediately, >
half way in...

Yes, whenever I've fitted a new motherboard I've always just fired it up
and done a repair install and everything has been fine but it doesn't
seem to be working that way this time - maybe just a Packard Bell thing.

[Dave Headley]

In article <9ej146...@mid.individual.net>, nos...@nospam.net says...

AHA!! I didn't know that! Cheers

[Dave Headley]

In article <wbednVxgMaaUxhnT...@brightview.co.uk>,
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...

There is indeed a "Repair your computer" option but selecting that just
leads to a black screen for about 2 seconds then it reboots, sometimes
blue-screening for a fraction of a second (enough to know it's a BSOD
but not long enough to read it). Just spoken to my mate and he only has
a recovery DVD anyway, not a full install DVD.

> There are some guides here that might help:
>
> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88009-advanced-boot-options.html
> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/194765-system-recovery-options.html
> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/91467-startup-repair.html

Thanks very much John.

[Dave Headley]

In article <j60g90$7pu$1...@news.albasani.net>, d...@kangoo.invalid says...

>
> On 28/09/11 22:24, Dave Headley wrote:
>
>
> > So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
> > could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
> > help before I tear all my hair out :-)
>
> If it's Windows it may be refusing to boot on what it considers a new
> machine. Do you get as far as a blue screen with the system
> restore/reinstall from backup option.

No, it doesn't get that far.

> Try testing with a Linux live CD
> (eg Ubuntu) if that works then blame windows not the hardware.

Tried but it doesn't work. Just going to try a different Linux LiveCD
because someone said that not all of them work with all machines.

[Dave Headley]

In article <Dr0DeCO5...@jasper.org.uk>, mi...@jasper.org.uk says...

>
> En el artículo <MPG.28eda0ea3...@news.btinternet.com>, Dave
> Headley <no...@wanted.com> escribió:
>
> >I know this is OT for the DIYers but there's some brilliant computer
> >gurus in there a
>
> There's plenty of on-topic groups with "brilliant computer gurus" out
> there if you could be arsed to find them, it's only like a couple of
> mouse clicks.

You're a right little ray of sunshine aren't you? Yes, plenty of
computer newsgroups but most suffer from spammers or don't get the
volume of traffic that this group does. I could have been waiting for
days to get even one reply in those other groups - plus there's some
VERY knowledgeable people here.

> >Right, a friend rang me to say that there had been a burning smell from
> >the computer (Packard Bell iMedia X2416 running Windows Vista)
>
> If it's a Bestec PSU, it's a well known fault. The -5v line goes way
> overvoltage and destroys the motherboard. Had you bothered to google,
> you would have discovered this for yourself before putting the PSU in
> your own computer.

Yes, I'm well aware of the problems Bestec PSUs suffer from thank you
very much, but this is not a Bestec PSU so why you're farting on about
Bestec heaven only knows.

> Finally, there's no point whinging about BSODs without giving the STOP
> errors that accompany them. The number following the STOP is needed for
> any meaningful diagnosis.

Had you been arsed to look at the link I posted you'd have seen four or
five photos. Had you been arsed to click on each of the photos in turn
you'd have zoomed in to such a degree that the STOP errors and
associated numbers are easily readable and had you been arsed, you could
have read them yourself.

1 - this is a DIY group and I am DIYing the computer repair.

2 - If you have nothing constructive or pleasant to say, say nothing at
all. The subject line clearly stated "Packard Bell computer driving me
crazy" so you did not need to look at it if you didn't want to.

[John Rumm]

You might be able to turn off the auto restart from the advanced boot
options screen. That may give you a chance to read the error message.

After that you may have to resort to lower level file repairs etc under
Bart PE.

It sounds like the best bet may be to do a fresh install onto a new hard
drive, and then set about recovery of files from the old.

>> There are some guides here that might help:
>>
>> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88009-advanced-boot-options.html
>> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/194765-system-recovery-options.html
>> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/91467-startup-repair.html
>
> Thanks very much John.
>
>

[John Rumm]

Try with something simpler like UBCD4 (you can download an ISO ready to
burn)

>>> Plus the fact that I've now got some diagnostic software (PC Check) and,
>>> as you'll see in these photos here, the motherboard and processor pass
>>> all tests
>>>
>>> http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/darkdoo/Packard%20Bell/
>>
>> Those pictures are all too small to read anything useful... but the last
>> two do look like windows kernel panics (i.e. BSODs)
>
> Sorry John, I never thought to mention it but if you click on the photos
> it zooms in - keep clicking and it'll zoom to 100% and is easily
> readable then starts to zoom out.

Doh!

I clicked once, and just got extra file info. Did not think to keep
clicking!

>>> So, where do I go from here? Is the diagnostic software accurate or
>>> could there still be problems with mobo/CPU? What can I do now? Please
>>> help before I tear all my hair out :-)
>>
>> If you can boot ok from a CD, then I expect you have a basic hardware
>> incompatibility (possibly even a HAL incompatibility) between the
>> windows image on the hard drive, and the new motherboard. You can
>> usually fix this by booting from the windows CD and doing an inplace
>> repair install. This should leave all data and programs intact, but
>> re-detect and install all the lower level drivers that can prevent a
>> system from booting.
>>
>> IME, sometimes you can pull a fast one a swap a mobo under windows, and
>> it does not complain, just notices stuff is new, and detects and and
>> reinstalls the right drivers. Other times it does what you are seeing
>> at some stage in the boot process ranging from almost immediately,>
> half way in...
>
> Yes, whenever I've fitted a new motherboard I've always just fired it up
> and done a repair install and everything has been fine but it doesn't
> seem to be working that way this time - maybe just a Packard Bell thing.

More likely a Vista thing...

[Dave Headley]

In article <X-ydnan6Ce-24BnT...@brightview.co.uk>,

Thanks John, I think you're right there. Just tried with a Knoppix CD
and it shows "Decompressing Linux..... Parsing ELF....Done.....Booting
kernel....." and then it goes no further, just sticks there.

Thanks for your help.

[John Rumm]

If this is the same revision board, and same BIOS version, then that (in
theory) ought to boot from the old hard drive.

This is starting to look like either the new board is in some way
faulty, or you have a corrupted drive image.

Try the more extensive test suite on UBCD4/5

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

[The Natural Philosopher]

Hmm.

Sugggets some mighty borked hardware to me..RAM good?

> Thanks for your help.

[Dave Headley]

In article <j620sa$2f6$3...@news.albasani.net>, t...@invalid.invalid says...

Yep, I put it into my machine and ran Memtest86+ overnight without
errors.

[The Natural Philosopher]

OK..then what its is probably having issues with is that it needs
drivers for the hardware that are not in the live CD. At which point you
are off the 'simply boot a live CD' and into hackers paradise.

May I make a pragmatic suggestion?

Buy a new disk and either install a FULL linux or a FULL windows on it,
and then jumper the old disk as a slave to get the data off it.

This will get your old data back, and you will have to reinstall all the
programs.

I am tempted to say go Linux, and reinstall windows and its programs in
a virtual machine: After crashing several times a week ago my VM windows
refused to boot in under 45 minutes. I went back to an earlier snapshot,
and now its fine.

Sine no use data is actually held in the windows area whatsoever, by
deliberate choice - I regard windows as an unstable OS and will only use
it as a program launcher for three programs I need - this is no big deal
for me.

Unless your favourite windows programs are gaes, which are a bit sick in
a VM, this is definitely the way to get stability - move email,
browsing, word processing and the like to Linux, and leave - in my case
Rhino CAD and Corel suite running on a virtual machine..

Or dual boot the thing and use a local server to hold all the important
data.

[Dave Headley]

In article <j622e3$6ec$1...@news.albasani.net>, t...@invalid.invalid says...

*********************************

I don't know about my mate going over to Linux but we're now at the
stage of grabbing the important stuff off the drive and then a complete
wipe, reformat and reinstall. Cheers for your help :-)

[Lee]

On 29/09/2011 15:22, John Rumm wrote:

>
> This is starting to look like either the new board is in some way
> faulty, or you have a corrupted drive image.
>
> Try the more extensive test suite on UBCD4/5
>
> http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
>
>

Good suggestion. I'm still thinking a bios or settings conflict...

@OP, I'd suggest removing everything non-essential, including anything
USB especially disconnect the front panel memory card reader, if it has
one, doing a bios reset and load optimized defaults and try again...
Then put things back one at a time.

Lee

[John Rumm]

On 29/09/2011 15:19, Dave Headley wrote:
> In article<X-ydnan6Ce-24BnT...@brightview.co.uk>,

Since that is two live CDs that have failed, it could point at a
hardware problem...

[Jules Richardson]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:48:53 +0100, Dave Headley wrote:
> Hmm, well I've downloaded and burned an Ubuntu LiveCD then booted my own
> machine with it to see what I could expect. It worked well and I got to
> the Ubuntu desktop. However, when I tried it on the suspect machine it
> doesn't work - I get a screen with two symbols at the bottom then the
> screen goes black

I'm wondering if your CPU isn't hosed - although you don't have a spare
CPU, can you perhaps lay your hands on a known-good board supporting that
particular CPU in which to try the one that you have?

Perhaps there was some problem which caused the machine to overheat
severely - e.g. failing fan, dust build-up, something jamming (PSU wires
are good for that) the fan, PSU glitch (possibly due to marginal PSU).

That could account for the burning smell reported. I've seen severely-
overheated CPUs fail in ways where they still semi-work, but problems
subsequently manifest in all sorts of odd ways.

cheers

Jules

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes. bus timings go way out of spec.

> cheers
>
> Jules

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <d7k8879ta91no0rin...@4ax.com>, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> escribió:

>Right. But this is a DIY ng and fixing a computer is DIY.

from the FAQ:

"DIY stands for Do It Yourself, Plumbing, wiring, building, decorating,
furniture making, and in fact anything and everything to do with
maintaining, running, and improving your home, from putting up shelves
to building a house."

Nothing there about fixing computers, and there are other, more
suitable, more targeted, groups where the OP would receive excellent
advice.

>The error messages don't always help either.

You're clueless. They can at the very least help differentiate between
software (device driver) and hardware issues.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <MPG.28ee82ed3...@news.btinternet.com>, Dave
Headley <no...@wanted.com> escribió:

> Yes, plenty of
>computer newsgroups but most suffer from spammers or don't get the
>volume of traffic that this group does.

I don't think you even bothered to look.

Would you walk into a plumber's merchant with a query about a car
problem?

> I could have been waiting for
>days to get even one reply in those other groups - plus there's some
>VERY knowledgeable people here.

Brown-nosing will get you everywhere.

>Yes, I'm well aware of the problems Bestec PSUs suffer from thank you
>very much, but this is not a Bestec PSU

Which you didn't mention in your original post. I gave up mind-reading
years ago. If you're so knowledgeable, what are you doing posting here
for help?

>Had you been arsed to look at the link I posted you'd have seen four or
>five photos.

Why should I? Post to usenet, read the reply in usenet is the
convention (as well as posting in an appropriate group)

> had you been arsed, you could
>have read them yourself.

Had you been arsed, you could have included the error codes in your OP.
You're the one asking for help. after all, prat.

[Dave Headley]

In article <CxvjoEBS...@jasper.org.uk>, mi...@jasper.org.uk says...

Ooh, you are a spitty little pussycat aren't you? You have the honour of
being the first person in my Bozo Bin I think.

[tony sayer]

In article <TR7ng5AA...@jasper.org.uk>, Mike Tomlinson
<mi...@jasper.org.uk> scribeth thus

Try a posting on alt.computer
--
Tony Sayer

[Andy Champ]

On 30/09/2011 08:53, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> from the FAQ:
>
> "DIY stands for Do It Yourself, Plumbing, wiring, building, decorating,
> furniture making, and in fact anything and everything to do with
> maintaining, running, and improving your home, from putting up shelves
> to building a house."
>

That excludes Matty's fascinating posts about the inside of trams. And
wood splitting. And chainsaws. And bikes. Personally I do do my own
computers, so they're no further OT than many topics we have.

> Nothing there about fixing computers, and there are other, more
> suitable, more targeted, groups where the OP would receive excellent
> advice.

That however may well be true.

Andy

[VanguardLH]

NOTE: Newsgroups have been altered from those specified by the OP.

Original newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Added newsgroups: alt.computer

The original thread can be viewed in Google Groups at:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/15a795fc0e0d0ecd

<rant>
This is to add the notice that Tony chose to omit. Whenever the list of
newsgroups is changed, make notice of that fact. Place a note at the
top of your reply that the Newsgroups were changed (added or removed)
from the original list so others are aware of the change. Optionally
state in the notice why the change was considered appropriate if not so
stated in the body of your reply. Notice of change is optional but
appreciated if your Usenet provider does not carry one, or more, of the
original newsgroups (that is, you cannot post there).

Users should not have to ferret out or happen to notice the attempt to
redirect a thread (to move it elsewhere or remove it). Tell them you
did it. Redirection without notification is a troll maneuver.
</rant>


NOTE: The uk.d-i-y newsgroup (for my NNTP server) requires use of the
FollowUp-To header (which is a ridiculous requirement if the poster
intends to NOT be rude by yanking the discussion away from where it
originally appeared). As such, the FollowUp-To header was used to
move/retain this discussion under the following newsgroup that I
monitor:

alt.computer

As such, replies will go to alt.computer unless you change (and politely
notify of such) the Newsgroups header for your reply.

Original newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Added newsgroups: alt.computer
Effector/Respondent: tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk>

This is to warn that Effector has copied [only their subthread of] an
existing discussion to other groups by cross-posting their reply to
groups not originally specified by the OP (original post[er]). There
may be additional replies back under the original post in its original
group(s) than just those shown under the subthread for the Effector's
cross-posted reply. If the OP and others wish to ensure that they see
ALL replies then they must visit the original groups to check if there
are subthreads *other* than just under the Effector's reply.

<rant>
If the OP wishes to move or copy their discussion to another group, that
should be *their* choice and not as an UNSOLICITED action enforced by
another *user*. Despite his pretense, the Effector is not a moderator
or admin but just another user who is propagating the OP's discussion to
different group(s) that he has divined are more appropriate and to
possibly enlarge the audience or hopefully provide a more focused
community on the topic but which may not be a correct or best choice for
the OP. The actual source of the problem may turn out not to be
relevant to those other groups simply based on what the OP reported as
the symptoms and upon what the Respondent based their decision to
forcibly redirect someone else's discussion. If the OP wants to move or
copy their discussion to another group, that should be THEIR choice and
not of the Respondent. The Respondent should only recommend to the OP
that there may be more appropriate or useful groups to which the OP
should repost or cross-post their message, not enforce the propagation
of the OP's discussion to other groups.

A misguided urge to enlarge or change exposure for a discussion based on
the Respondent's biases or presumptions is not an adequate reason to
alter the Newsgroups header. Recommend the OP should move. Do not
SHOVE them over. It should be the OP's choice as to where they focus
their discussion, not a forced change made by the Respondent. Despite
trying to help, forcing a redirection of someone else's discussion is
troll-like behavior. Suggest the change. Don't force it.
</rant>

RECOMMENDING the discussion move to a more narrowly focused newsgroup
that may better address the topic is laudable. SHOVING someone over
there without their permission and without notification is despicable
and smacks of behavior typical of trolls, spammers, and malevolents.

[John Rumm]

I don't know, I can't imaging a house without a computer these days, or
for that matter building one without the aid of a computer. So its as
much a valid tool as a screwdriver!

[The Natural Philosopher]

John Rumm wrote:
> On 30/09/2011 20:57, Andy Champ wrote:
>> On 30/09/2011 08:53, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
>>> from the FAQ:
>>>
>>> "DIY stands for Do It Yourself, Plumbing, wiring, building, decorating,
>>> furniture making, and in fact anything and everything to do with
>>> maintaining, running, and improving your home, from putting up shelves
>>> to building a house."
>>>
>>
>> That excludes Matty's fascinating posts about the inside of trams. And
>> wood splitting. And chainsaws. And bikes. Personally I do do my own
>> computers, so they're no further OT than many topics we have.
>>
>>
>>> Nothing there about fixing computers, and there are other, more
>>> suitable, more targeted, groups where the OP would receive excellent
>>> advice.
>>
>> That however may well be true.
>
> I don't know, I can't imaging a house without a computer these days, or
> for that matter building one without the aid of a computer. So its as
> much a valid tool as a screwdriver!
>
>

All my design work is done on one now.

apart from rough sketches on A4 scrap, I get a computer model going ASAP
so I can see how it will look in 3D....

[John Rumm]

Yup, same here for any furniture projects (bar the simplest) generally.

[Jules Richardson]

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:38:12 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
>> apart from rough sketches on A4 scrap, I get a computer model going
>> ASAP so I can see how it will look in 3D....
>
> Yup, same here for any furniture projects (bar the simplest) generally.

But furniture is just something you have in the home, and generally isn't
physically attached to it - so presumably falls foul of the same rules
which prohibit mention on this group of building/maintaining computers
without professional help.

;-)

[John Rumm]

I can go change the FAQ if you want ;-)

[Jules Richardson]

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 22:36:52 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
>> But furniture is just something you have in the home, and generally
>> isn't physically attached to it - so presumably falls foul of the same
>> rules which prohibit mention on this group of building/maintaining
>> computers without professional help.
>
> I can go change the FAQ if you want ;-)

Well, you could add suggested guidelines for recommended volume of posts
on specific topics per month... ;-)

[John Rumm]

Can you imagine the arguments about post quota!

We would need a WT: prefix for "Wrong Title" - i.e. we have our quota of
plumbing posts this month, so I have titled my "how do I change a tap"
post as "WT: making a mortice and tenon joint" ;-)

[Mark]

Ah, a "know-it-all". FYI the messages are not always the same. SOME
messages can help and some are of little use at all.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.