Government by e-petition
PeterD
dissidents who will be first against the wall come the crackdown,
masquerading as an e-petition site.
I've signed the one to get ID cards dropped
<http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/> and I'm very tempted to sign the
one asking Tony His Blairness to "stand on his head and juggle
ice-cream", but I fear that doing so devalues the arguably more worthy
causes.
--
Pd
Paul Russell
Signed (#2220).
That's me off to the gulags then.
Paul
Jon B
AOL (#2233)
I couldn't resist the Ice cream either, nor the one on getting speed
cameras off motorways and dual carriageways and only in towns.
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.
ric
>
> That's me off to the gulags then.
>
> Paul
If it's anything like their previous effort at 'engaging with the
people', BigConversation, then all that will happen is
a) a couple will be cherry picked by new labour as a shining example of
public engagement
b) your email address will be retained and you'll get spammed multiple
times per day during the next election campaign.
ric
Peter Ceresole
> If it's anything like their previous effort at 'engaging with the
> people', BigConversation, then all that will happen is
> a) a couple will be cherry picked by new labour as a shining example of
> public engagement
> b) your email address will be retained and you'll get spammed multiple
> times per day during the next election campaign.
You forgot to add:
c) Your geographical address and coordinates will be passed to the US as
part of the routine anti-terror exchanges. There it will be added to the
USAF's target list. Purely as a precaution of course; nothing to worry
about.
--
Peter
Andrew Stephenson
pe...@cara.demon.co.uk "Peter Ceresole" writes:
> You forgot to add:
> c) Your geographical address and coordinates will be passed to
> the US as part of the routine anti-terror exchanges. There it
> will be added to the USAF's target list. Purely as a precaution
> of course; nothing to worry about.
Being on their list guarantees you'll not get hit. Being _off_
the list is the scary arrangement. "Collateral"-somethingummy.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Roger Merriman
> Paul Russell <prus...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > PeterD wrote:
> >
> > > There's a new government site collecting names and addresses of
> > > dissidents who will be first against the wall come the crackdown,
> > > masquerading as an e-petition site.
> > >
> > > I've signed the one to get ID cards dropped
> > > <http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/> and I'm very tempted to sign the
> > > one asking Tony His Blairness to "stand on his head and juggle
> > > ice-cream", but I fear that doing so devalues the arguably more worthy
> > > causes.
> > >
> >
> > Signed (#2220).
> >
> > That's me off to the gulags then.
> >
>
> AOL (#2233)
>
> I couldn't resist the Ice cream either, nor the one on getting speed
> cameras off motorways and dual carriageways and only in towns.
speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
but yes i do agree with the sentiment, why park the speed van on the
ragan by pass and not bridge street with two schools puplies crossing
it...
roger
Ekul Namsob
> speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
headlights late at night.
Cheers,
Luke
--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush
Jon B
> Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
>
> The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> headlights late at night.
>
Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
constant can work quite effectively.
Tim Streater
black...@jonbradbury.com (Jon B) wrote:
> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> > > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> > > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> > > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> > > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
> >
> > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> > headlights late at night.
> >
> Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> constant can work quite effectively.
Try your rear fog lights.
-- tim
zoara
> Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
>> for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
>> too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
>> just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
>> at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
>
> The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> headlights late at night.
I worked out that there's a bit of 'flex' at the top of my brake pedal.
You can touch the brake pedal without applying the brakes, but the lights
come on.
If one flash doesn't do it, just keep on 'braking' at odd moments and
they think you're an unpredictable driver and back off. Once in a while -
when it's safer - you need to actually brake so that they don't clock
that your brake lights don't mean you're slowing down.
-z-
--
Our team is conducting a benchmarking effort to gather an outside-in
view on development performance metrics and best practice approaches
to issues of process and organization from companies involved in a
variety of software development (and systems integration).
Graeme Wall
Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
For some reason too many cars have single rear fogs, never understood why.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
Jon B
Worked much better on the Cavalier that used the 2nd filament on the
side lights for fog lights, with seperate brake lights, pre arm the
fogs, then turn on the side lights. Sometimes it worked a bit 'too'
effectively [1]. As Graeme states though many cays have single fog
lights nowadays, I never got round to sorting that in the 6 years I
owned my last car, I'm not sure if this one will be any different.
[1] I once had somebody I knew tailgating rather close as we approached
a gatso (at the legal 50mph limit for that road), it was duskish side
lights already on, tapped the fog lights on. Non abs car and panicing
driver made for an entertaining sight in the rear view.
Ekul Namsob
> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> > > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> > > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> > > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> > > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
> >
> > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> > headlights late at night.
> >
> Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> constant can work quite effectively.
Oh, absolutely. The thing is, I want these idiots locked up before they
kill someone. Maybe what's needed is some sort of traffic police. I
could suggest that to my MP...
Jon B
> Jon B <black...@jonbradbury.com> wrote:
>
> > Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> > > > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> > > > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> > > > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> > > > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
> > >
> > > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> > > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> > > headlights late at night.
> > >
> > Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> > constant can work quite effectively.
>
> Oh, absolutely. The thing is, I want these idiots locked up before they
> kill someone. Maybe what's needed is some sort of traffic police. I
> could suggest that to my MP...
>
I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
reason.
What we should have is much better driver training, so people learn not
to tailgate in the first place, and while they are teaching them that,
try and teach them a bit about traffic flow and how much you are
stopping sitting in the middle/outside lane of the motorway.
Woody
> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
>> Jon B <black...@jonbradbury.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
>>> > > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
>>> > > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
>>> > > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
>>> > > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
>>> >
>>> > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
>>> > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
>>> > headlights late at night.
>>> >
>>> Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
>>> constant can work quite effectively.
>>
>> Oh, absolutely. The thing is, I want these idiots locked up before they
>> kill someone. Maybe what's needed is some sort of traffic police. I
>> could suggest that to my MP...
>>
> I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
> rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
> reason.
Stopping people driving in a way likely to cause an accident is 'picking on
motorists?'. Bollocks to that. If you can't drive in a sensible and
considerate manner, rip their licence up and put them on a bus.
> What we should have is much better driver training, so people learn not
> to tailgate in the first place, and while they are teaching them that,
> try and teach them a bit about traffic flow and how much you are
> stopping sitting in the middle/outside lane of the motorway.
People are taught not to tailgate in the first place, but they do it
anyway.
--
Woody
Ekul Namsob
> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> > Jon B <black...@jonbradbury.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
> > > > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> > > > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> > > > headlights late at night.
> > > >
> > > Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> > > constant can work quite effectively.
> >
> > Oh, absolutely. The thing is, I want these idiots locked up before they
> > kill someone. Maybe what's needed is some sort of traffic police. I
> > could suggest that to my MP...
> >
> I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
> rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
> reason.
Balderdash. If a tailgating idiot hits my car in the rear and kills my
daughter then that person is a killer and should be locked up. If the
police can catch the muppet beforehand and issue points then so much the
better.
Those who break the law while driving do so, in the main, deliberately.
Look at the number of people who slow down for speed cameras and then
speed up afterwards. Look at the number of people who slow down for
Highways Agency patrols. These people are criminals who have failed to
kill through good luck rather than through judgement. What should be
done with those who break the law? Should they be ignored? Should we
remove all speed limits? Would you like to see speeds of 50 mph on
residential streets? Should those who drive unroadworthy vehicles be
ignored? What about the uninsured? Why the heck should I pay my road
tax? Hey, maybe I should be allowed to drink and drive. I'm not a thief
or a killer.
> What we should have is much better driver training, so people learn not
> to tailgate in the first place, and while they are teaching them that,
> try and teach them a bit about traffic flow and how much you are
> stopping sitting in the middle/outside lane of the motorway.
This country's driver training is about as rigorous as I can think of. I
recall stopping distances, the 2-second rule and much else being drummed
into me during my driving lessons.
Jon B
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:37:35 +0000, Jon B wrote:
>
> >>
> > I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
> > rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
> > reason.
>
> Stopping people driving in a way likely to cause an accident is 'picking on
> motorists?'. Bollocks to that. If you can't drive in a sensible and
> considerate manner, rip their licence up and put them on a bus.
>
I wouldn't object so much if the police were being more efficient in
more important areas, but they aren't. and as I said below, the real key
is much better driver training than what we currently get.
> > What we should have is much better driver training, so people learn not
> > to tailgate in the first place, and while they are teaching them that,
> > try and teach them a bit about traffic flow and how much you are
> > stopping sitting in the middle/outside lane of the motorway.
>
> People are taught not to tailgate in the first place, but they do it
> anyway.
Not exactly, we are only given a basic competence test, more stringent
training, and any motorway, and long distance dual carriageway training
is completely optional.
Roger Merriman
> Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > speed cameras on motorways do bunch up traffic etc, i do see a lot of
> > > for the will of (degity of choice) on the motorways driving too close,
> > > too fast. does go to show that humans can be woefully bad at risks, ie
> > > just becuase its never happened to them they drive with bugger all gap
> > > at speed in the driving rain in a car with wide tires....
> >
> > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better. Particularly
> > irritating to me are the idiots who combine tailgating with full-beam
> > headlights late at night.
> >
> Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> constant can work quite effectively.
heh yes indeed most cars you can just touch the peddle enought to make
the lights come on but not enought to attauly brake, most effective on a
courner when the tailgatter drifts closer....
after that they tend to back off.
roger
Roger Merriman
> Jon B <black...@jonbradbury.com> wrote:
>
> > Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Jon B <black...@jonbradbury.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > The sooner someone invents a tailgating camera the better.
> > > > > Particularly irritating to me are the idiots who combine
> > > > > tailgating with full-beam headlights late at night.
> > > > >
> > > > Mastering being able to 'brake' while still keeping the cars speed
> > > > constant can work quite effectively.
> > >
> > > Oh, absolutely. The thing is, I want these idiots locked up before they
> > > kill someone. Maybe what's needed is some sort of traffic police. I
> > > could suggest that to my MP...
> > >
> > I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
> > rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
> > reason.
>
> Balderdash. If a tailgating idiot hits my car in the rear and kills my
> daughter then that person is a killer and should be locked up. If the
> police can catch the muppet beforehand and issue points then so much the
> better.
>
the 2 second chevons on motorways are not bad idea, i guess the other
problem is that people tend to behave around police cars as you'd
expect.
> Those who break the law while driving do so, in the main, deliberately.
> Look at the number of people who slow down for speed cameras and then
> speed up afterwards. Look at the number of people who slow down for
> Highways Agency patrols. These people are criminals who have failed to
> kill through good luck rather than through judgement. What should be
> done with those who break the law? Should they be ignored? Should we
> remove all speed limits? Would you like to see speeds of 50 mph on
> residential streets? Should those who drive unroadworthy vehicles be
> ignored? What about the uninsured? Why the heck should I pay my road
> tax? Hey, maybe I should be allowed to drink and drive. I'm not a thief
> or a killer.
>
not so much deliberatly in a agress sence but in a unthinking lack of
understanding the risks as you say luck keeps them safe as long as it
lasts.
noticed while driving though ave speed cameras that some twits where
slowing at the cameras and speeding up again....
> > What we should have is much better driver training, so people learn not
> > to tailgate in the first place, and while they are teaching them that,
> > try and teach them a bit about traffic flow and how much you are
> > stopping sitting in the middle/outside lane of the motorway.
>
> This country's driver training is about as rigorous as I can think of. I
> recall stopping distances, the 2-second rule and much else being drummed
> into me during my driving lessons.
>
> Cheers,
> Luke
roger
Ekul Namsob
> noticed while driving though ave speed cameras that some twits where
> slowing at the cameras and speeding up again....
I know of one speed camera where maybe 90% of drivers slow down to 30
before speeding up. I wouldn't mind so much if the limit there was not,
in fact, 40.
David Kennedy
> Woody <use...@alienrat.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:37:35 +0000, Jon B wrote:
>>
>>> I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
>>> rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
>>> reason.
>> Stopping people driving in a way likely to cause an accident is 'picking on
>> motorists?'. Bollocks to that. If you can't drive in a sensible and
>> considerate manner, rip their licence up and put them on a bus.
>>
> I wouldn't object so much if the police were being more efficient in
> more important areas, but they aren't. and as I said below, the real key
> is much better driver training than what we currently get.
The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
rubbish - probably a bit of both. And, before you all start jumping all
over me I am sure that many police officers in the UK do their best with
a very difficult job. The problem comes [IMHO] from lack of leadership
and frequent half arsed political interference.
Driver training is also pretty grim. I watched the other day as white
van man cut up an articulated lorry in central Cardiff. He overtook at
the point where two lanes merged into on and then, because of bollards
and stationary traffic in front had to dive in and slam on the brakes.
Still, he did gain almost 20 yards and, apart from the artic driver and
the guy who nearly went into the back of the artic when it braked no one
was inconvenienced...
The problem is that they then take these same habits onto the motorway
where conditions are not quite so forgiving.
--
David Kennedy
Jon B
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> On 1/12/06 7:36 pm, Jon B wrote:
> > Woody <use...@alienrat.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:37:35 +0000, Jon B wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'd rather the police went round hounding the real killers and thiefs,
> >>> rather than being given the powers to pick on motorists for yet another
> >>> reason.
> >> Stopping people driving in a way likely to cause an accident is 'picking on
> >> motorists?'. Bollocks to that. If you can't drive in a sensible and
> >> considerate manner, rip their licence up and put them on a bus.
> >>
> > I wouldn't object so much if the police were being more efficient in
> > more important areas, but they aren't. and as I said below, the real key
> > is much better driver training than what we currently get.
>
> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
> rubbish - probably a bit of both. And, before you all start jumping all
> over me I am sure that many police officers in the UK do their best with
> a very difficult job. The problem comes [IMHO] from lack of leadership
> and frequent half arsed political interference.
>
Agreed, and I think we all know half the crime statistics rolled out are
all a load of crap as so many of us (self included) have stopped calling
the police, the worrying thing is the reports that people are not
bothering to report more and more serious/violent crimes. Unless you've
actually got a crime in progress, you'll be lucky to see them, if SOCO
come out you'll be lucky to see them within a few days, and then they
wonder where all the evidence has gone, well yeah we were just going to
live with smashed windows and glass all over the place.
> Driver training is also pretty grim. I watched the other day as white
> van man cut up an articulated lorry in central Cardiff. He overtook at
> the point where two lanes merged into on and then, because of bollards
> and stationary traffic in front had to dive in and slam on the brakes.
> Still, he did gain almost 20 yards and, apart from the artic driver and
> the guy who nearly went into the back of the artic when it braked no one
> was inconvenienced...
>
> The problem is that they then take these same habits onto the motorway
> where conditions are not quite so forgiving.
It isn't just that end of the scale though, there is the likes of
Maureen (star of one of those L driver series) who manage to get a
licence which is worrying too. There should be more specific motorway
training, I don't know why they think more lanes on a motorway will help
when only the outer one is full ;)
I also think some form of new driver refresher scheme should be
introduced, or make Pass Plus compulsary, but after 6-12months [1].
Doing Pass Plus the week after your test means you haven't had chance
for bad habits to develop, you are still in pass my test mode. I did
mine after about 6 months and my instructor absolutely bollocked me the
first two weeks till I'd got those habits back out the system. I went on
from that and did my advanced too.
[1] Maybe even a 5-10 year refresher.
Peter Ceresole
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
> rubbish
Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use highly abusive techniques
to obtain their convictions.
--
Peter
Sak Wathanasin
>> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
>> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
>> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
>> rubbish
>
> Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use highly abusive techniques
> to obtain their convictions.
Ah, yes, my grandfather used to regale us with tales of the creative use
of various household implements by the Kempetai (as in "if you lot don't
behave, ...") To his dying day, he wouldn't buy a single item of
Japanese manufacture.
Peter Ceresole
> > Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use highly abusive techniques
> > to obtain their convictions.
>
> Ah, yes, my grandfather used to regale us with tales of the creative use
> of various household implements by the Kempetai (as in "if you lot don't
> behave, ...") To his dying day, he wouldn't buy a single item of
> Japanese manufacture.
They have always been famous for their 'robust' techniques. Also, in
Japanese society, there's a general tendency towards social conformity.
The paradoxical effect seems to be that they have a powerfully
'incorporated' criminal class, who enjoy a great deal of freedom and are
deeply enmeshed in the political structure (how very, very unlike our
own dear Western way -Yo Jeb, nice to see ya) but that freelance and
petty crooks are often turned in in a way that they no longer are here.
--
Peter
Ekul Namsob
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> On 1/12/06 7:36 pm, Jon B wrote:
> > I wouldn't object so much if the police were being more efficient in
> > more important areas, but they aren't. and as I said below, the real key
> > is much better driver training than what we currently get.
>
> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
> rubbish - probably a bit of both.
Or, alternatively, Japanese criminals are a bunch of amateurs.
David Kennedy
>
> It isn't just that end of the scale though, there is the likes of
> Maureen (star of one of those L driver series) who manage to get a
> licence which is worrying too. There should be more specific motorway
> training, I don't know why they think more lanes on a motorway will help
> when only the outer one is full ;)
>
Don't get me started on lane discipline...
> I also think some form of new driver refresher scheme should be
> introduced, or make Pass Plus compulsary, but after 6-12months [1].
> Doing Pass Plus the week after your test means you haven't had chance
> for bad habits to develop, you are still in pass my test mode. I did
> mine after about 6 months and my instructor absolutely bollocked me the
> first two weeks till I'd got those habits back out the system. I went on
> from that and did my advanced too.
>
> [1] Maybe even a 5-10 year refresher.
Possibly but what would I do without a license ?
David Kennedy
> David Kennedy
> <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
>> wrote:
>
>> On 1/12/06 7:36 pm, Jon B wrote:
>
>>> I wouldn't object so much if the police were being more efficient in
>>> more important areas, but they aren't. and as I said below, the real key
>>> is much better driver training than what we currently get.
>> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
>> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
>> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
>> rubbish - probably a bit of both.
>
> Or, alternatively, Japanese criminals are a bunch of amateurs.
There is another possibility you know.
David Kennedy
The bastards, we can't have those poor oppressed criminals suffering
simply to keep their victims happy can we. Whatever next?
It might be more relevant to know how accurate their conviction rate is.
Woody
> On 4/12/06 1:00 pm, Peter Ceresole wrote:
>> David Kennedy
>> <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
>>> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
>>> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
>>> rubbish
>>
>> Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use highly abusive techniques
>> to obtain their convictions.
>
> The bastards, we can't have those poor oppressed criminals suffering
> simply to keep their victims happy can we. Whatever next?
Strange - I didn't think they were criminals until they had been found
guilty of a crime!
> It might be more relevant to know how accurate their conviction rate is.
Why bother - bound to have done something :-)
--
Woody
David Kennedy
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:42:10 +0000, David Kennedy wrote:
>
>> On 4/12/06 1:00 pm, Peter Ceresole wrote:
>>> David Kennedy
>>> <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
>>>> wrote:
>>>> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
>>>> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
>>>> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
>>>> rubbish
>>> Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use highly abusive techniques
>>> to obtain their convictions.
>> The bastards, we can't have those poor oppressed criminals suffering
>> simply to keep their victims happy can we. Whatever next?
>
> Strange - I didn't think they were criminals until they had been found
> guilty of a crime!
>
Well, if, as Peter said, they get convicted then they are indeed
criminals and, unless they were wrongly convicted I'm unlikely to get
very worked up about their human rights but it was why I asked the
follow up.
Peter Ceresole
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> Well, if, as Peter said, they get convicted then they are indeed
> criminals
No; what I said was that the Japanese police had a reputation for
bearing down very hard to justify their arrests.
As a system, this pretty well guarantees that a relatively high
proportion of those convicted will in fact be innocent. I also said that
there are many criminals there who operate with relative immunity. These
things may keep the streets tidy, but justice it ain't.
--
Peter
David Kennedy
> David Kennedy
> <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
>> wrote:
>
>> Well, if, as Peter said, they get convicted then they are indeed
>> criminals
>
> No; what I said was that the Japanese police had a reputation for
> bearing down very hard to justify their arrests.
>
What you said was :- "Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use
highly abusive techniques to obtain their convictions."
So, as I said, as long as the convictions are sound.
> As a system, this pretty well guarantees that a relatively high
> proportion of those convicted will in fact be innocent. I also said that
> there are many criminals there who operate with relative immunity. These
> things may keep the streets tidy, but justice it ain't.
If that's true then no it's not.
Ekul Namsob
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> On 4/12/06 6:39 pm, Ekul Namsob wrote:
> > David Kennedy
> > <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> >> The Police here are, when it comes to catching criminals, rubbish. AUI,
> >> over 90% of crime in Japan is resolved, now, that seems to indicate that
> >> either Japanese Police officers are far superior or those in the UK are
> >> rubbish - probably a bit of both.
> >
> > Or, alternatively, Japanese criminals are a bunch of amateurs.
>
> There is another possibility you know.
British criminals are highly-trained professionals?
zoara
> I also think some form of new driver refresher scheme should be
> introduced
Agreed.
Required regular retests really rould... er *would* go down well - once
every five years?
-z-
--
THONK BOKE
zoara
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> Well, if, as Peter said, they get convicted then they are indeed
> criminals and, unless they were wrongly convicted I'm unlikely to get
> very worked up about their human rights but it was why I asked the
> follow up.
Really? Criminals should have few/no human rights?
-z-
--
THONK BOKE
Peter Ceresole
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> > No; what I said was that the Japanese police had a reputation for
> > bearing down very hard to justify their arrests.
> >
>
> What you said was :- "Or, most likely, that the Japanese police use
> highly abusive techniques to obtain their convictions."
What I said. Different words but the sense is the same.
--
Peter
Sak Wathanasin
> Or, alternatively, Japanese criminals are a bunch of amateurs.
The Yakuza have somehow managed to keep going since the Meiji era; some
amateurs.
Jon B
Yeah, maybe age dependent too, within the first 12-24 months, then 5
years, then every 10 until you hit say, 60 or 70, and then 5 years
again. I think you'd have to instroduce a 'window' too as it were, you
have to wait say 4 years before you have a test, but after that you've
then got until year 6 to pass it, if you don't pass it in that window
back to provisional. In other words you don't go for a test at year 5,
fail, and lose your transport, you get told get some refreshment lessons
in, and come back in 3 months.
The likes of those people like 'Maureen' either that first 5 years to
actually learn to drive properly, or lose their licence. I know when you
pass your test it is only a basic proficiency, but you should then go on
from that and learn to drive properly, or lose the licence.
Peter Ceresole
Not only that; in Japanese politics, they are an intimate part of the
system. High level survival. Just like the Mafia in the States.
--
Peter
David Kennedy
I have a big problem with criminals getting compensation for their
withdrawal symptoms, with them getting compensation if the householder
tries to restrain them or stop them and with some other anomalies in the
present system which seem to mean that the human rights of these pond
scum take precedent over the rights of their victims.
But, in answer to your question, if they rape, murder, hit and run and
many other violent crimes, should they have the same human rights as the
victim ? Yes in my opinion and, as they have deprived the victim of all
of their human rights then it's only fair they have the same.
OTOH, I would not want any innocent person to be incarcerated wrongly or
done over by an over zealous police man [ as with Rodney King etc. ] so
it's a bit of a dilemma really. On the one hand I'd like to bang up the
crims and throw away the key but, on the other, we do definitely need
safeguards as mistakes are made.
Peter Ceresole
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> But, in answer to your question, if they rape, murder, hit and run and
> many other violent crimes, should they have the same human rights as the
> victim ?
Rab Butler, who may never have made it to Prime Minister but who was
never the less a decent man and a proper person said:
'The mood and temper of the public with regard to the treatment of crime
and criminals is one of the unfailing tests of the civilization of a
country.'
He was right. And if we followed your precepts, we would be no better
than the criminals themselves. Once they are in gaol, they are
completely at our mercy. We are then responsible for them. Treating them
in a savage way makes us all savages- and I reject that.
--
Peter
David Kennedy
I used to agree - these days I'm not so sure - but they don't seem to
respond to being treated decently and with dignity other than to take
the piss that is.
Roger Merriman
> Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > noticed while driving though ave speed cameras that some twits where
> > slowing at the cameras and speeding up again....
>
> I know of one speed camera where maybe 90% of drivers slow down to 30
> before speeding up. I wouldn't mind so much if the limit there was not,
> in fact, 40.
>
> Cheers,
> Luke
i guess thats the "ooh spped camera, is it 30 or 40 here?" plus as
speedos are only guides being a bit causiois is probably a good idea.
roger
Ekul Namsob
Well, there's a big sign with a black 40 on a white background
surrounded by a red circle just in front of the camera.
Roger Merriman
> Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Ekul Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Roger Merriman <NE...@wodger.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > noticed while driving though ave speed cameras that some twits where
> > > > slowing at the cameras and speeding up again....
> > >
> > > I know of one speed camera where maybe 90% of drivers slow down to 30
> > > before speeding up. I wouldn't mind so much if the limit there was not,
> > > in fact, 40.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Luke
> >
> > i guess thats the "ooh spped camera, is it 30 or 40 here?" plus as
> > speedos are only guides being a bit causiois is probably a good idea.
>
> Well, there's a big sign with a black 40 on a white background
> surrounded by a red circle just in front of the camera.
>
> Cheers,
> Luke
people get done by the speed camera in pontypool, which can be seen for
miles away.
dunno i guess people just don't seem to be aware sometimes..
roger
zoara
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
> wrote:
> > He was right. And if we followed your precepts, we would be no better
> > than the criminals themselves. Once they are in gaol, they are
> > completely at our mercy. We are then responsible for them. Treating them
> > in a savage way makes us all savages- and I reject that.
>
> I used to agree - these days I'm not so sure - but they don't seem to
> respond to being treated decently and with dignity other than to take
> the piss that is.
Who cares if they take the piss?
The aim should be to stop them doing Naughty Things, not to exact
revenge. That we currently don't do a very good job of stopping them do
Naughty Things is a failing of the implementation, not the concept.
-z-
--
THONK BOKE
David Kennedy
> David Kennedy
> <davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid
>> wrote:
>
>>> He was right. And if we followed your precepts, we would be no better
>>> than the criminals themselves. Once they are in gaol, they are
>>> completely at our mercy. We are then responsible for them. Treating them
>>> in a savage way makes us all savages- and I reject that.
>> I used to agree - these days I'm not so sure - but they don't seem to
>> respond to being treated decently and with dignity other than to take
>> the piss that is.
>
> Who cares if they take the piss?
I think I do when they're out on license - as was reported on Wednesday
the number of offences [rape & murder] committed by prisoners out on
license has apparently increased by 400% since 1999 - or on probation or
remand and still pursuing their illegal pastimes. So, yes I think we
should all care.
>
> The aim should be to stop them doing Naughty Things, not to exact
> revenge. That we currently don't do a very good job of stopping them do
> Naughty Things is a failing of the implementation, not the concept.
The idea should be to deter them, the present system isn't working at
all so maybe it needs either toughening up or replacing. I was reading
in the Observer that drug related crime has dropped by over 200% in
Malaysia over the past ten years - ever since they brought in the death
penalty in fact.
David
Kennedy
<davidk...@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid>
wrote:
> The idea should be to deter them, the present system isn't working at
> all so maybe it needs either toughening up or replacing. I was
> reading in the Observer that drug related crime has dropped by over
> 200% in Malaysia over the past ten years - ever since they brought
> in the death penalty in fact.
Dropped by over 200%? Surely that means more people are now restoring
stolen property than were stealing it before?
--
David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk
http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/
Ekul Namsob
Round the corner from me there is a speed camera that continues to catch
speeding idiots (not all of them: one wrapped his car around a house
earlier this year. He survived. His passenger was flung from the car and
killed. The car was apparently travelling in excess of 70 mph.)
To approach the speed camera, drivers must first go up Brockholes Brow:
a three-lane road with a limit of 40mph and repeated signs labelling the
route as a high accident priority enforcement route. As the three lanes
(two up, one down) narrow to two the speed limit reduces to 30mph.
A few yards later, a matrix sign flashes at speeding motorists to remind
them that the limit is 30mph. This sign is only illuminated if
travelling faster than the speed limit.
Another twenty yards or so after that, straight after a pelican
crossing, is the speed camera.
I honestly believe that anyone who manages to speed past that camera is
careless beyond words. Or, perhaps, blind.
Sara Kirk
<1hpzm05.4qhiqvbktwniN%notmyaddress...@wronghead.com>, Ekul
Namsob <notmyaddress...@wronghead.com> wrote:
>
> Round the corner from me there is a speed camera that continues to catch
> speeding idiots (not all of them: one wrapped his car around a house
> earlier this year. He survived. His passenger was flung from the car and
> killed. The car was apparently travelling in excess of 70 mph.)
>
> To approach the speed camera, drivers must first go up Brockholes Brow:
> a three-lane road with a limit of 40mph and repeated signs labelling the
> route as a high accident priority enforcement route. As the three lanes
> (two up, one down) narrow to two the speed limit reduces to 30mph.
>
> A few yards later, a matrix sign flashes at speeding motorists to remind
> them that the limit is 30mph. This sign is only illuminated if
> travelling faster than the speed limit.
>
> Another twenty yards or so after that, straight after a pelican
> crossing, is the speed camera.
>
> I honestly believe that anyone who manages to speed past that camera is
> careless beyond words. Or, perhaps, blind.
They've got one of those "slow down" light thingies near me, on Hampton
Court Road. I didn't realise it ever switched off until Rog told me.
That's how many people - all of them - are going faster than they
should be there.
On a completely different tack, as a cyclist, having the High St. to
Hampton Court Rd. junction closed[1] has been heaven. :-)
1. collapsed sewer, apparently
--
Sara
I've lost Lord Byron's pic somehow. When I find it linky will be resumed.
Sak Wathanasin
> On a completely different tack, as a cyclist, having the High St. to
> Hampton Court Rd. junction closed[1] has been heaven. :-)
Yeah, even central London seems more civilized these days since they
brought in congestion charging.
> 1. collapsed sewer, apparently
Oh, shit!
Sak Wathanasin
> I think I do when they're out on license - as was reported on Wednesday
Isn't that what he said: that the implementation was failing. They
wouldn't be out on licence if we had somehwere to put them.
> The idea should be to deter them, the present system isn't working at
> all so maybe it needs either toughening up or replacing.
It isn't working because the chances of getting caught are so slim. It
hardly matters what the punishment is.
And we've lost collective responsibility. When I was growing up, I
wouldn't have dared cut school because any adult I met would have felt
it was their duty to call the police or the least the school (and my
parents would have thanked them). Nowadays, if you try to tell some kid
off for dropping litter, you'd probably be done for child abuse, and
their parents would come round and beat you up (if the kid doesn't stab
you first, that is).