Change of PDA
Peter Ceresole
Desktop on my Macs, and it's been great. However the M505 I'd been using
(hi, JonB) finally failed completely, and the refurbished replacement
Tungsten I bought this year, through Amazon, has also failed with what
looks like comprehensive display failure. I shall have to get a refund,
but anyway, I really need a PDA. NOT a phone; the advantage of the PDA
is I can leave it switched off except when needed, so the battery lasts
for a very long time...
I've got an iTouch, and I've tried moving to iCal and using that, but
it's no use; the conversion is flaky and it doesn't copy the addresses I
have in the Palm... Plus, unless I leave the iTouch on standby, which
flats the battery more quickly than I like, it takes a bloody age to
start. No good.
So, two questions:
(1) Is there a proper way to convert a Palm database to iCal? I don't
mind paying a reasonable amount for an app that works... At the moment,
all I can do is to save the database (in Palm Desktop) to vCard format,
and import into iCal. It does strange things with the dates... And of
course my Palm addresses won't transfer that way.
(2) Is anybody using a new Palm device? Which is nice? I like to use
Graffiti, rather than mini-keyboard input. Or does anybody have a no
longer used but working Palm-based PDA that they'd be willing to sell
me? I'd be happy to change the batteries, if that were necessary.
--
Peter
Peter Ceresole
> Is vCard a standard format? Does iCal read vCards? You can export to
> vCard format from Palm Desktop.
It says that it does (via the import menu), and it sorta-kinda works,
but the dates of events in the Datebook are quite badly furtled.
They're there, but on the wrong dates, or doubled up...
Anyway, most important to me would be to convert the contacts info.
Without that, it's not much use to me, and the thought of taking them
across by hand is... daunting.
And specifically, the thing I like about the Palm is that you switch on
and pop! it's all there instantly.
--
Peter
Chris Ridd
> In article <1j2dq4j.16eg05waug1nfN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,
> pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
>
>> Okay, I've been using Palm based PDAs for ten years now, and the Palm
>> Desktop on my Macs, and it's been great. However the M505 I'd been using
>> (hi, JonB) finally failed completely, and the refurbished replacement
>> Tungsten I bought this year, through Amazon, has also failed with what
>> looks like comprehensive display failure. I shall have to get a refund,
>> but anyway, I really need a PDA. NOT a phone; the advantage of the PDA
>> is I can leave it switched off except when needed, so the battery lasts
>> for a very long time...
>
> I am, or will be, in the same situation as you. The touch position
> detector on my Tungsten E is so much off that I can no longer calibrate
> the screen.
>
>>
>> I've got an iTouch, and I've tried moving to iCal and using that, but
>> it's no use; the conversion is flaky and it doesn't copy the addresses I
>> have in the Palm... Plus, unless I leave the iTouch on standby, which
>> flats the battery more quickly than I like, it takes a bloody age to
>> start. No good.
>>
>> So, two questions:
>>
>> (1) Is there a proper way to convert a Palm database to iCal? I don't
>> mind paying a reasonable amount for an app that works... At the moment,
>> all I can do is to save the database (in Palm Desktop) to vCard format,
>> and import into iCal. It does strange things with the dates... And of
>> course my Palm addresses won't transfer that way.
>
> Is vCard a standard format? Does iCal read vCards? You can export to
> vCard format from Palm Desktop.
vCard is a standard, and Address Book can read it. But there might be
some variation in the fields which makes going from Palm Desktop to
Address Book lossy. I know Address Book has various vCard prefs which
might improve things.
iCal (vCal?) files are sort of standard too. iCal doesn't have any
particular settings to tweak how they import :-(
At the end of the day, both formats are just text files so you
shouldn't ever lose your data.
--
Chris
SteveH
> (2) Is anybody using a new Palm device? Which is nice? I like to use
> Graffiti, rather than mini-keyboard input. Or does anybody have a no
> longer used but working Palm-based PDA that they'd be willing to sell
> me? I'd be happy to change the batteries, if that were necessary.
I have a couple of Palms here.
As I recall, an M500, a IIIc (bit dated, but works) and a Zire 71.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
Alfa 156 TSpark Sportwagon Veloce Selespeed - Alfa 75 TSpark Lusso -
Ducati 750SS - BMW R100RT - Toyota Prius T-Spirit
Ivor
> In article <1j2dq4j.16eg05waug1nfN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,
> pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
>
> > Okay, I've been using Palm based PDAs for ten years now, and the Palm
> > Desktop on my Macs, and it's been great. However the M505 I'd been using
> > (hi, JonB) finally failed completely, and the refurbished replacement
> > Tungsten I bought this year, through Amazon, has also failed with what
> > looks like comprehensive display failure. I shall have to get a refund,
> > but anyway, I really need a PDA. NOT a phone; the advantage of the PDA
> > is I can leave it switched off except when needed, so the battery lasts
> > for a very long time...
>
> I am, or will be, in the same situation as you. The touch position
> detector on my Tungsten E is so much off that I can no longer calibrate
> the screen.
>
I've had similar issues on my E2. There's an app called SysInfo with a
calibration tool that seems to be quite effective. Here's a link in case
you want to trial it.
http://www.handango.com/catalog/ProductDetails.jsp?storeId=2218&productI
d=166630
Ivor
Peter Ceresole
> I have a couple of Palms here.
>
> As I recall, an M500, a IIIc (bit dated, but works) and a Zire 71.
What are the M500 and the Zire like? I really loved the M550 I got from
JohnB, and if it hadn't finally given up after many years, I'd still be
using it. The Tungsten had a much superior display, much brighter, but
in the street in sunlight, or in the bus, the M505 was actually
superior. If the M500 is in the same league, I'd like one. I still have
the M550 hotshoe; is the M500 the same?
After a couple of days, I realise that I really, really want a
replacement Palm. The iTouch simply won't do. Presumably the Zire will
handle the Palm data that I have in Palm Desktop. Give me an email shout
if you're willing to sell either of them. Were they recently in working
order? Where do you live? It's the kind of thing that easily goes by
post...
Otherwise I shall sashay up to Tottenham Court Road, or points near
there, to try to buy a new Palm device. After a few irritating
experiences, I reckon that the only things I will buy on line are books
(can't go phut) and possibly Tom-Toms, which seem to Just Work (but get
stolen). Returning faulty stuff on line is just too much hassle- not
worth the money (notionally) saved.
--
Peter
SM
> Well, I tried that one. It too is unable to calibrate my screen. I have
> a little app called DigiChek which tells me where the E2 thinks I am
> tapping. I tap one cm below the top or above the bottom of the screen,
> the E2 thinks I am tapping at the top or bottom respectively.
I had the same with a Tungsten T - quite annoying since apart from that
it was perfect.
Palm seemed totally uninterested after one feeble software 'fix'.
Stuart
--
cut that out to reply
Peter Ceresole
> I had the same with a Tungsten T - quite annoying since apart from that
> it was perfect.
>
> Palm seemed totally uninterested after one feeble software 'fix'.
I'm afraid that any company that follows Graffiti 1, which was
excellent, with Graffiti 2, which (purely in my experience, I admit) was
quite horrid, much slower and less flexible, has a serious problem with
where it should be heading.
Having said that, it's still (again in my opinion) better than using
iCal on an iTouch.
--
Peter
SteveH
I disagree.... I've tried all kinds of stuff to keep me organised. Palm,
WinMobile, Nokia Tablet.
The only device that I've been completely happy with is the iPhone.
Which is why I gave my 2G to Katie and bought a 3G for myself.
SM
> SM <in...@that.sundog.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I had the same with a Tungsten T - quite annoying since apart from that
> > it was perfect.
> >
> > Palm seemed totally uninterested after one feeble software 'fix'.
>
> I'm afraid that any company that follows Graffiti 1, which was
> excellent, with Graffiti 2, which (purely in my experience, I admit) was
> quite horrid, much slower and less flexible, has a serious problem with
> where it should be heading.
Graffiti 2 is horrible but IIRC Palm were forced to stop using G1 by
Xerox.
I still (just about) use a Zodiac but installed Teal Script to get back
the old style Graffiti. This syncs to iCal, Address Book etc using some
ancient version of Missing Sync
Ric Harris
> I'm afraid that any company that follows Graffiti 1, which was
> excellent, with Graffiti 2, which (purely in my experience, I admit) was
> quite horrid, much slower and less flexible, has a serious problem with
> where it should be heading.
> --
> Peter
Presumably they had a problem with heading into being sued into
oblivion at the time: it wasnt' their choice...
Ric Harris
Isn't the easiest way to sync the palm to the PIM software of your
choice, then sync the new device to that software when you have it?
It's what the Palm was designed to do, and is usually a lot less
mither than trying to read proprietary data formats yourself and
convert them. Even if you had to borrow an hour on a PC with MS
Outlook installed, you'd probably get your data over OK...
Jaimie Vandenbergh
That's the big downside - it's *always* Outlook.
But it is the simplest method, as long as you watch out for potential
data loss due to field matching failures and field length limits.
I keep a VM with Outlook 2003 installed just for that sort of thing,
it currently has five different mobile phone/PDA suites on it from
various different occasions. Astonishingly they haven't yet broken
each other.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Ric Harris
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not that Outlook or Palm's interpretation of how to talk to it is
perfect, obviously. The number of hours I've spent messing about with
Conduits/wiping Outlook calendars and reimporting just because of some
minor Palm bug that their support basically say happens because they
don't have full documentation for Outlook's APIs or indeed fully
understand them, and basically that's it. Grr.
However, when it works, it's definitely the way forward.
My calendars now sync to my Google calendar, too. I've not dared try
Google Contacts as I don't quite trust them yet, but the aim if for
all my PIM data to be available everywhere...
Chris Ridd
> Isn't the easiest way to sync the palm to the PIM software of your
> choice, then sync the new device to that software when you have it?
It would be if (a) both devices sync to the same databases (they don't)
and (b) you're keeping the same PIM software (Peter isn't).
Given that, it makes more sense to migrate the data from Palm Desktop
(the PIM) to Address Book/iCal, clean it up either during the export or
after the import, and then finally syncing to the iPod Touch Just Works.
--
Chris
Jaimie Vandenbergh
wrote:
Misinterpretation - by PIM, Ric means a destination app like Outlook,
Entourage, or the OSX Truth db. Somewhere independent of the various
PDA/phone software databases.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found
the conditions that make it fail." - Jerry Ogdin
Peter Ceresole
> Presumably they had a problem with heading into being sued into
> oblivion at the time: it wasnt' their choice...
So I now understand... I really liked Graffiti 1, and v.2 was a real
shock. Even so, I prefer it to a hard or soft keyboard, on a device that
small. I really don't enjoy text entry on an iPod Touch, for example,
although it's a bit better since I got a stylus for it; at least then
it's manageable. But then my finger tips must be too blunt for the
Touch...
--
Peter
Peter Ceresole
> Isn't the easiest way to sync the palm to the PIM software of your
> choice, then sync the new device to that software when you have it?
Sure. That's what I try to do. So I synced the Palm to Palm Desktop on
the Mac (works perfectly of course). The trick is to get the data from
there to e.g an iTouch. Which means iCal. I can export the Palm data
either in Palm format, or Tab and return, or vCal. The vCard option is
for addresses and sort of works.
I save to vCal, then import *that* to iCal, which sorta kind works, but
makes a bit of a dog's dinner of it. There's the problem.
If that worked okay, there'd be no problem syncing to the iTouch, of
course. But it takes *such* a lot of cleaning up...
In fact, it's so much simpler to stick to a Palm device, that's what I'm
doing. I like them anyway...
--
Peter
Flavio Matani
>
> iCal (vCal?) files are sort of standard too. iCal doesn't have any
> particular settings to tweak how they import :-(
.ics files. Facebook exports events in this format. You cannot change
anything once you bring it into iCal. Attempting to do so results in a
warning that you are not the owner of this event and therefore cannot
change it. Not sure how you could get around this or whether this would
also be the case with files imported from a PDA (assuming the latter can
export in .ics format)
--
flavio matani
guitar tuition
http://www.flaviomatani.co.uk
http://fflavio.com
zoara
> And specifically, the thing I like about the Palm is that you switch on
> and pop! it's all there instantly.
That's my biggest regret about moving from Palm to the iPhone. Some apps
just take that bit too long to load.
Actually, scratch that. It's my *only* regret.
-z-
--
"And the tiny universe compiles."
http://powazek.com/posts/1655
Peter Ceresole
> That's my biggest regret about moving from Palm to the iPhone. Some apps
> just take that bit too long to load.
>
> Actually, scratch that. It's my *only* regret.
But as I don't need a phone beyond my basic Nokia 1100, for me the Palm
is just the ticket.
--
Peter
T i m
Ceresole) wrote:
>>In fact, it's so much simpler to stick to a Palm device, that's what I'm
>doing. I like them anyway...
<strokes TX>
I've been playing with OSssss and on one laptop have Vista / W7 /
Ubuntu and on another Ubuntu / Mint and Puppy. I already know XP works
perfectly with everything.
I was also seeing what I could hook up to what. Most of the Windows
stuff works on Vista / W7 and *I* even managed to synch the TX on
Ubuntu!
I'm currently installing a graphical GRUB editor to the Ubuntu / Mint
/ Puppy lappy so I can add the Puppy stuff to the GRUB menu (and as I
know little about Linux it's probably the safest (only) way I can see
to do it without going back 20 years and looking at terminal screens).
;-)
T i m
Peter Ceresole
> I already know XP works
> perfectly with everything.
Except with me. I have standards... But it works perfectly with every
known form of malware. And there's the rub.
--
Peter
Steve Firth
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
Tim, you don't know arse from elbow. I'd trust my dog to give me advice
about operating systems before I'd trust you. I've been a systems
architect for some huge installations and Windows has been universally
shit and the biggest source of problems irrespective or version,
platform or whatever anyone is trying to get it to do.
Typical builds are get Linux up and running - a few weeks, get Windows
up and running, several months. As to security, hah. Windows and
security go together like "colander" and "useful baling device".
T i m
Ceresole) wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I already know XP works
>> perfectly with everything.
>
>Except with me.
Hey, don't worry, you can't be good at everything.
> I have standards
So do I, if I have to ask what the chances are of something working
with my chosen OS it's the wrong one. I wonder how many people host
OSX on Windows compared with those who host Windows on OSX?
>But it works perfectly with every
>known form of malware. And there's the rub.
Like I said, you can't be good at everything.
To me most people justifications (and they seem to need to offer them
for some reason) for using OSX sound to me like ... "I keep smashing
manual gearboxes so now drive an automatic. But I sometimes have to
override the auto function because there are those things you still
need an manual gearbox for".
I'm happy knowing how to properly drive my manual. ;-)
T i m
T i m
wrote:
>Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
>
>Tim, you don't know arse from elbow.
(Aww bless, he still *has* to read and reply to my posts. If wonder if
he's going to put his foot in his mouth like he usually does)
>I'd trust my dog to give me advice
>about operating systems before I'd trust you.
Of course you would but I put that down to your medication.
> I've been a systems
>architect for some huge installations and Windows has been universally
>shit and the biggest source of problems irrespective or version,
>platform or whatever anyone is trying to get it to do.
You should have got a professional to help you. So, wouldn't you think
if Windows was so shit and 20 years of Apple existing that it would be
more 'significant' out there? I'm not saying it's bad or XP is the
best in all scenarios BTW (I know you are easily confused), I'm asking
why Windows is still the No1 client if it's so bad (not that I care
what the answer is, I just like to use what everyone else uses and
develop soft and hardware for).
>
>Typical builds are get Linux up and running - a few weeks, get Windows
>up and running, several months.
I'll pm some numbers of proper professionals for you Steve.
> As to security, hah. Windows and
>security go together like "colander" and "useful baling device".
Nearly as handy as Apples square peg to seal the round hole then eh?
(assuming you can find one at all that is)
Anyway, thanks again for your continuing interest.
T i m
SteveH
> I already know XP works
> perfectly with everything.
So fuck off to a Windows group, rather than continue to post to a group
which obviously isn't relevent to you.
It's becoming very, very fucking tedious.
HTH.
Peter Ceresole
> I'm asking
> why Windows is still the No1 client if it's so bad
How about because it's effectively given away for free? That usually
helps.
--
Peter
Steve Firth
There are several reasons. In corporate desktops it is No. 1 because no
IT manager will break the rule about "No one ever got fired for buying
IBM" except that now Microsoft replaces IBM. Not because the products
are good, but because they are seen as "standard" hence a decision to
buy Windows is effectively unassailable. That locks companies into the
use of Windows.
Not all of them, but many of them and it's a very brave IT Manager who
chooses anything else.
There is also the license management issue. Microsoft have a licensing
policy that meets the corporate requirement and software tools are
available to administrate those licences.
And people are now fairly skilled at packaging Windows desktops even
though TBH it's a bloody PITA to do so. But IT bods have the experience
and can roll out locked down Windows clients to order (more or less).
As to home machines, as Peter says Windows is free so that's that as far
as customers are concerned, and many of them in small businesses can
still "borrow" a CD/DVD from work to install Windows software on their
machine.
Nothing to do with quality or the robustness of the OS, all to do with
price, availability and the fact that many people have only ever
experienced Windows and have no clue about using anything else.
And I put T i m in the killfil years ago because of his boring,
ill-informed, moronic Windows advocacy. It looks as if I'll have to
change that to kill by reference to avoid seeing the fall-out.
Tim, if you love Windows so much, fuck off to a Windows advocacy group.
You're a boring waste of electrons here.
Steve Firth
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
>
> So fuck off to a Windows group, rather than continue to post to a group
> which obviously isn't relevent to you.
>
> It's becoming very, very fucking tedious.
YMYA.
SteveH
> SteveH <st...@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
> >
> > So fuck off to a Windows group, rather than continue to post to a group
> > which obviously isn't relevant to you.
> >
> > It's becoming very, very fucking tedious.
>
> YMYA.
Oh christ, that doesn't even bear thinking about.
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I already know XP works
>> perfectly with everything.
>
>So fuck off to a Windows group, rather than continue to post to a group
>which obviously isn't relevent to you.
So you (again) choose to piggy back on someone else's selective
snipping of what I typed. I was also talking about Linux (like OSX)
and you could have offered positive advice on that but oh no, much
easier to show off and fall (again) hook line and sinker for my retard
trap. Well done.
I think it must be a 'Steve' thing!
>
>It's becoming very, very fucking tedious.
Then put me pack in yer cowards killfile or just don't read what I
type.
>
>HTH.
It's been a while anything you typed helped anyone. But hey, I will
carry on generally ignoring your BS posts and trying too help where I
can (as with the R100RT top case mounts etc), because I am not so full
of anger and frustration I can't have a laugh about it all.
IH *that* helps you.
T i m
T i m
So has Linux for nearly as long and where is that still?
T i m
T i m
wrote:
>And I put T i m in the killfil years ago because of his boring,
>ill-informed, moronic Windows advocacy.
But I still post little here other than stuff not marked OT but are
blatant plugs for commercial organisations like Novatech.
"There's also a touch screen version available for �153, but you have
to pay $30 to get drivers for the that.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-MIMO2"
Oh, comes with Windows drivers but you have to pay extra to get it to
work under OSX you say Steve? No, that can't be right can it, in 2009,
A1 OS that OSX is etc? Oh, hang on, that's also *exactly* what I was
saying is *still* a reason why OSX isn't my preferred OS.
>. It looks as if I'll have to
>change that to kill by reference to avoid seeing the fall-out.
What, after all this time you still haven't fully configured your
cowards file?
>
>Tim, if you love Windows so much, fuck off to a Windows advocacy group.
So, now you are THE Netcop for ucsm, could you show me where it says I
have to declare my hatred for Windows to post here? The fact that XP
works well for me is too much for you to bear or believe is it? Like I
said, I'm currently 'playing' with Vista, W7, Ubuntu, Mint, Puppy
Linux and OSX but I bet it's only the Windows stuff that sticks in
your craw isn't it, OS Nazi that you are (And WTF you care I still
don't know). I use the term 'playing' is because all of them fail to
some degree FOR ME. Won't print, won't connect to all my AP's,
hardware isn't supported (or I have to pay extra for the drivers) etc
etc. It's not dig against any of them, it's real everyday practical
facts (FOR ME you dumfuck)!
>You're a boring waste of electrons here.
And you are a terrible waste of oxygen everywhere.
T i m
Stimpy
> Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
>
> Tim, you don't know arse from elbow.
XP "works perfectly with everything"?
It struggles with this copy of iLife for a start.
T i m
wrote:
See, that's where you Apple Fanbois keep getting it wrong with XP,
iLife (not something I use personally because I've got aLife) is OSX
only (doh)!
Anyway, glad to see something has dragged all the nutters out from
under their stones and out into the fresh air (there are a couple more
to go but I'm sure they'll be along soon). ;-)
"This is a local shop for local people ..."
T i m
Stewart Smith
> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:24:31 +0100, Stimpy <stimpy...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:51:41 +0100, Steve Firth wrote
>>> Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
>>> Tim, you don't know arse from elbow.
>> XP "works perfectly with everything"?
>>
>> It struggles with this copy of iLife for a start.
>
> See, that's where you Apple Fanbois keep getting it wrong with XP,
> iLife (not something I use personally because I've got aLife) is OSX
> only (doh)!
>
Woooooooosh...
By the way, posting hundreds of messages a month on usenet is anything
but evidence that you have "aLife".
Stewart
T i m
wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:24:31 +0100, Stimpy <stimpy...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:51:41 +0100, Steve Firth wrote
>>>> Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I already know XP works perfectly with everything.
>>>> Tim, you don't know arse from elbow.
>>> XP "works perfectly with everything"?
>>>
>>> It struggles with this copy of iLife for a start.
>>
>> See, that's where you Apple Fanbois keep getting it wrong with XP,
>> iLife (not something I use personally because I've got aLife) is OSX
>> only (doh)!
>>
>
>Woooooooosh...
(I said they would come out of the woodwork) So, how do you think that
whooshed me then? It better be good or it might look like you have
been whooshed.
>
>By the way, posting hundreds of messages a month on usenet is anything
>but evidence that you have "aLife".
To, you maybe. Sitting in a darkened room making movies, audio tracks
and sorting yer photo album is more of a life is it?
T i m
SteveH
> Apple Fanbois
Do you really think that will gain you any fans in a Mac NG?
I really don't know why you believe it's a good thing for you to post
here. You have no interest in Macs, you believe Windows is the bestest
OS in the whole world, ever, and I can't really recall any positive
input you've had to this group.
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Apple Fanbois
>
>Do you really think that will gain you any fans in a Mac NG?
Do you really think that's what I would want to do?
>
>I really don't know why you believe it's a good thing for you to post
>here.
And you never will. You don't have the intellect.
> You have no interest in Macs,
And you worked that out how?
> you believe Windows is the bestest
>OS in the whole world, ever
Nope and in spite of correcting you and the other thick cunts every
time you dribble such crap out you to continue to do so? What I *do*
say (just in case you finally get the message) is that *currently* XP
is the best ALL ROUND OS *for me*. Get it? Not you, not anyone else
here, just me. But then this isn't an OSX advocacy group either is it,
it's just u.c.s.m and I have several of the things.
Here's a thought. I currently have installed and running System 7, 9,
OSX 10.4 and 5. Windows 98, ME, XP, Vista, W7 ... Puppy, Mint and
Ubuntu Linux. I test them against my current hardware set, my required
software and where not Windows equivalent software and therefore feel
I'm in a reasonable position to make basic comparisons and
observations. And that's all I'm doing. If you don't like it, tough.
>and I can't really recall any positive
>input you've had to this group.
And I don't give a fuck what you can and can't remember.
Have you really not spotted a pattern here yet? There are many people
who do seem to get it. They just answer my questions, chat and joke
and take my 'little ways' in the same spirit as they are meant. I am a
nobody, a nothing, why you *still* give a fuck what I say amazes me.
Stalk someone else you weirdo.
T i m
SteveH
> Stalk someone else you weirdo.
Coming from you.... that's absolutely priceless.
Have you thought about seeing someone about your attention whore mental
health issues?
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Stalk someone else you weirdo.
>
>Coming from you.... that's absolutely priceless.
Erm, how many times have I replied to your posts here or elsewhere
*unless* you were spouting bollok ... oh, point taken.
>
>Have you thought about seeing someone about your attention whore mental
>health issues?
Yes and they said although I did have a problem, at least I wasn't "a
petrol head" so would only need mild medication.
T i m
David Kennedy
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Apple Fanbois
>
> Do you really think that will gain you any fans in a Mac NG?
>
> I really don't know why you believe it's a good thing for you to post
> here. You have no interest in Macs, you believe Windows is the bestest
> OS in the whole world, ever, and I can't really recall any positive
> input you've had to this group.
+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==================================================================
--
David Kennedy
T i m
<davidk...@nospamherethankyou.invalid> pasted:
> +-------------------+
> | PLEASE DO NOT |
> | FEED THE TROLLS |
Good (predictable) lad, I think we nearly have a full house now!
T i m
Peter Ceresole
> Good (predictable) lad, I think we nearly have a full house now!
T i m, you are a full house all on your own.
Overfull.
--
Peter
T i m
It has been said. ;-)
Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
excited by me and the things I say? We have been over *me* and my
reasons for being here before (and it's boring) and as should be now
blatantly obvious (to those that aren't droids anyway) that it's
(still) just me being me. No harm or malice meant.
So, as a bit of friendly and semi on topic chat I reply to your?
">>In fact, it's so much simpler to stick to a Palm device, that's
what I'm doing. I like them anyway..."
With"
"<strokes TX>" (I would have put a 'pipe' in there but I couldn't
see one easily on this Apple keyboard). Is it | ? (no gap?)
"I've been playing with OSssss and on one laptop have Vista / W7 /
Ubuntu and on another Ubuntu / Mint and Puppy. I already know XP works
perfectly with everything.
I was also seeing what I could hook up to what. Most of the Windows
stuff works on Vista / W7 and *I* even managed to synch the TX on
Ubuntu!
I'm currently installing a graphical GRUB editor to the Ubuntu / Mint
/ Puppy lappy so I can add the Puppy stuff to the GRUB menu (and as I
know little about Linux it's probably the safest (only) way I can see
to do it without going back 20 years and looking at terminal screens).
;-)"
What I was saying with "I already know XP works
perfectly with everything" was just that. My installation(s) of XP
work with everything I have, especially compared with the other OS's I
listed (including several other Windows versions). WTF is wrong with
that? It's fact and I wasn't even dissing OSX FFS!
T i m
p.s. I did eventually manage to edit the GRUB to get Puppy to boot ok.
Peter Ceresole
> Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
> excited by me and the things I say?
It's the way you tell 'em.
--
Peter
T i m
<phew> I thought they just didn't like Windows! ;-)
T i m
Jaimie Vandenbergh
Ceresole) wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
>> excited by me and the things I say?
"Bored", Tim. Not excited.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
A: Think about it. Come on, you can figure it out.
A:>> When half the group posts top and the other half posts bottom.
Q:>>> What's even more annoying than topposting?
Q:> Why would that be annoying?
T i m
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>In article <653f5591cmt4bf9ll...@4ax.com>,
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> "<strokes TX>" (I would have put a 'pipe' in there but I couldn't
>> see one easily on this Apple keyboard). Is it | ? (no gap?)
>
>It's shift-backslash (just to the left of the return key on both my
>Apple keyboards here).
|
Yes, isn't that what I did?
I think I'm more used to looking for the broken vertical bar key and
when it wasn't where I was expecting I assumed it was with the hash
key somewhere. ;-)
T i m
Peter Ceresole
> >> Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
> >> excited by me and the things I say?
> >
> >It's the way you tell 'em.
>
> <phew> I thought they just didn't like Windows! ;-)
Well of course they don't.
Poeple will put up with Windows. God knows I have, when I had to-
although MSDOS plus DESQView worked a lot better. But only idiots can
*like* Windows.
--
Peter
Steve Firth
> In article <653f5591cmt4bf9ll...@4ax.com>,
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > "<strokes TX>" (I would have put a 'pipe' in there but I couldn't
> > see one easily on this Apple keyboard). Is it | ? (no gap?)
>
> It's shift-backslash (just to the left of the return key on both my
> Apple keyboards here).
I think you'll find everything posted by T i m is shiftless backlash.
Steve Firth
> MSDOS plus DESQView worked a lot better
I had the same setup runnign Lotus 123, a Statistics package and Lotus
Manuscript and frantically tabbing between them to get large reports
written and printed. Then I was given a loan of an SE/30, bought a IICx
and junked the IBM.
T i m
<jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:39:02 +0100, pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter
>Ceresole) wrote:
>
>>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
>>> excited by me and the things I say?
>
>"Bored", Tim. Not excited.
You and me both Jaimie.
Just for the record, note who exactly does get 'all excited' first the
next time though. Money says it isn't me.
T i m
T i m
wrote:
>Tim Streater <timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
;-)
T i m
T i m
Ceresole) wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> >> Serious question though, can you explain why these people get soo
>> >> excited by me and the things I say?
>> >
>> >It's the way you tell 'em.
>>
>> <phew> I thought they just didn't like Windows! ;-)
>
>Well of course they don't.
Hehe.
>
>Poeple will put up with Windows.
I think it's more that some people don't have the choice, so much
stuff still being 'Windows only'.
> God knows I have, when I had to-
>although MSDOS plus DESQView worked a lot better.
I agree with you to a degree. When I was first building PC for work we
were still using MSDOS V6.22 and using apps like Procomm (Field
support, terminal emulation / file transfer), PCAW (remote support)
and mainly Wordstar for WP. Harvard Graphics and Lotus123 / Supercalc
for Marketing / Accounts. And it all worked pretty fast. I set them
all up with AutoMenu. Switch on, boot in seconds to a screen-saving
menu and it would return to the menu when you closed the app.
> But only idiots can
>*like* Windows.
Yep, the sort of people who queue up at the release of an OS or phone
etc. ;-)
T i m
Peter Ceresole
You don't get it; that's *fun*.
Windows has never been *fun*. More of a chore.
--
Peter
SteveH
T i m
wrote:
>Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
And that's a difference. I was never an office worker.
I was building PC's at home for my own interest and that flowed into
work because they were keen to expand the technology.
At the end I had in my room at work my main PC (mostly in Procomm for
accessing the X.25 Packet switching network and file transfers to our
engineers and customers in the field), the Netware 3.12 server PC, a
Fax gateway PC, the BBS PC, the MS Mail remote connector / gateway PC
and the MS Mail to CCMail gateway PC. All built and maintained by me
and running 24/7. The downtime would have been the envy of most IT
managers. Whilst I'm sure some of those functions could have been
covered with Apple machines, at the time we couldn't afford them, nor
did they ever get put forward for the roles.
At the same time we were supplying and installing PC platform based
networking / gateway products (rack mount jobbies).
So, I'm still not an office worker and don't generally use / do stuff
that the Apple machines have always been good at. And I still like to
build my own machines and play the odd game or two, two more things
not really suited to Macs.
T i m
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> > But only idiots can
>> >*like* Windows.
>>
>> Yep, the sort of people who queue up at the release of an OS or phone
>> etc. ;-)
>
>Windows XP launch:
>
>http://www.my360.com.au/img/news/launch11.jpg
Yep, that's them.
T i m
T i m
Ceresole) wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> > But only idiots can
>> >*like* Windows.
>>
>> Yep, the sort of people who queue up at the release of an OS or phone
>> etc. ;-)
>
>You don't get it; that's *fun*.
You are right, I don't get it, but then I've never chosen to queue for
anything.
>
>Windows has never been *fun*.
Agreed, it's a means to an end, something I've always stated of any
OS. However, XP is currently the best means to an end I have.
> More of a chore.
Like with many things you get out what you put in.
With many other OS's, even with them working perfectly and efficiently
I can't get out of them what I need, like supporting all my hardware,
running my favourite News reader or playing my favourite games.
I don't *want* an Alpha Romeo, I *need* an estate car.
T i m
SteveH
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I don't *want* an Alpha Romeo
>
>Good job, as there's no such thing.
And that was just for you. ;-)
T i m
SteveH
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:48:25 +0100, st...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
> wrote:
>
> >T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't *want* an Alpha Romeo
> >
> >Good job, as there's no such thing.
>
> And that was just for you. ;-)
Well, it's always hard to tell when you're dealing with cocks on the
'net.
Besides - if you want a nice estate, Alfa do them very well.
<points to drive>
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:48:25 +0100, st...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don't *want* an Alpha Romeo
>> >
>> >Good job, as there's no such thing.
>>
>> And that was just for you. ;-)
>
>Well, it's always hard to tell when you're dealing with cocks on the
>'net.
Tis indeed.
>
>Besides - if you want a nice estate, Alfa do them very well.
I didn't say I wanted a nice estate. Actually, I had the best estate
in the world for 23 years. 2LGL Sierra estate. Why was it the best ...
It did everything I expected of it and more (for the 100,000 miles I
drove it).
It only failed twice in all that time and in both cases might have
been avoided by better maintenance (partially seized brake caliper and
broken cam belt (no probs, 'safe' engine)).
It had proper gutters and a long roof to take Thule bars (carry even
more stuff). A huge long perfectly flat floor when the rear seats were
down.
It was free for most of the time (company car) and cost next to
nothing to run the time I owned it myself.
><points to drive>
<looks, opens tailgate> Hmm, that rear sill is a bit high, no gutters,
all that complicated stuff to go wrong ... <hmmm> ;-)
T i m
Roger Merriman
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > Apple Fanbois
>
> Do you really think that will gain you any fans in a Mac NG?
>
> I really don't know why you believe it's a good thing for you to post
> here. You have no interest in Macs, you believe Windows is the bestest
> OS in the whole world, ever, and I can't really recall any positive
> input you've had to this group.
to be fair i think he just likes pluging bits of kit together so uses
windows as thats what he's happiest with, fine if thats what turns his
crank, as to why he thinks any one else is likely to be intrested in
that is behond me.
and i'd certinaly not call plugging bits into a desktop pc engineering.
as it's normally childs play.
but utlmatly best bet is killfile or just ingnore him. i mostly do the
latter.
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Capital to Coast
www.justgiving.com/rogermerriman
Peter Ceresole
> to be fair i think he just likes pluging bits of kit together
I think he hangs out here because the quality of the company is so much
better and more civilised, seeing as it's Mac users.
Even hardware people are allowed to have standards.
--
Peter
T i m
wrote:
>SteveH <st...@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Apple Fanbois
>>
>> Do you really think that will gain you any fans in a Mac NG?
>>
>> I really don't know why you believe it's a good thing for you to post
>> here. You have no interest in Macs, you believe Windows is the bestest
>> OS in the whole world, ever, and I can't really recall any positive
>> input you've had to this group.
>
>to be fair i think he just likes pluging bits of kit together so uses
>windows as thats what he's happiest with,
I think you will find that 'so uses windows' bit is less of a free
choice than you think. I build a PC (because I can't build a Mac)
then what OS am I going to put on it? One that doesn't support half my
requirements (Linux), one I have to hack on there that doesn't support
half my requirements (OSX) or one that goes on and 'just works' (for
me).
> fine if thats what turns his
>crank,
Quite.
>as to why he thinks any one else is likely to be intrested in
>that is behond me.
Do you equally wonder about all the others that post Windows / Linix /
Mobile Phone related stuff here Roger?
>
>and i'd certinaly not call plugging bits into a desktop pc engineering.
You are right, it's far less 'engineering' than it used to be in the
days of manually set DMA, IRQ, I/O port jumpers that's for sure.
However, that's when I first started building PC's and it's hardly my
fault the basics have got easier.
>as it's normally childs play.
As is capitalisation for most (with respect) and installing an app on
an iPhone, as is Lego, however since when did anyone say you can only
get enjoyment out of complicated things.
>
>but utlmatly best bet is killfile or just ingnore him. i mostly do the
>latter.
Sensible lad.
You see, whilst this isn't a Windows advocacy group, is isn't an Apple
/ OSX advocacy group either. It's mainly about a bunch of people who
like to ask, share and just talk about their computing / phone / other
needs, thoughts and issues. I have just as much right to be here as
anyone and probably own more Macs than most (I use one every day). The
fact that I currently don't find them the best thing since sliced
bread shouldn't be an issue. If people talk about Windows reasonably
then that's fine, but some don't and that's when you are likely to see
the 'other view' put forward. If you don't like Windows or can't get
on with it then that's also fine, but for millions more people than
all the alternative OS's put together (and I don't care what the
reasons are, just saying how it is) Windows is ok.
T i m
T i m
Ceresole) wrote:
>Roger Merriman <NE...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> to be fair i think he just likes pluging bits of kit together
>
>I think he hangs out here because the quality of the company is so much
>better and more civilised, seeing as it's Mac users.
That's partly true [1] also yes. Not actually *because* they are Mac
users but because (on the whole) they / you are nice, informative,
knowledgeable people yes.
Some of them even have a sense of humour!
>
>Even hardware people are allowed to have standards.
Exactly. ;-)
T i m
[1] Why would I have a need to hang about round u.c.s.w? What point
would there be posting a "Do you think this hardware will work with
Windows" when the answer would always be "Yes". <ducks>
T i m
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>In article <sdog55d52n8ut2afp...@4ax.com>,
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> [1] Why would I have a need to hang about round u.c.s.w? What point
>> would there be posting a "Do you think this hardware will work with
>> Windows" when the answer would always be "Yes". <ducks>
>
>But you can't duck out of the fact that you'd then be using Windows.
Erm, why would I want to do that? ;-)
> To
>the extent possible, most of us here would rather not do that, which is
>why we bought Macs in the first place.
Of course, your choice etc (and not once have I ever suggested anyone
do otherwise).
I like the 'rather not do that' bit though ... leaving the door open
that there are (unfortunately for you) still many things that are
'Windows only'.
Anyway, what I currently run as my current OS of choice has nothing to
do with my needs or choice to post here (so there). ;-)
T i m
T i m
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>In article <b8ng55hh0rkjpd6qk...@4ax.com>,
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:28:31 +0100, NE...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
>> wrote:
>
>> >and i'd certinaly not call plugging bits into a desktop pc engineering.
>>
>> You are right, it's far less 'engineering' than it used to be in the
>> days of manually set DMA, IRQ, I/O port jumpers that's for sure.
>> However, that's when I first started building PC's and it's hardly my
>> fault the basics have got easier.
>
>It never was engineering, T i m , that's the point. Plugging things in
>and setting those things is a tech's job.
Whatever.
>
>"Engineering" is what has happened when you plug the cards in and you
>*don't* have to set anything.
No, that's P&P. ;-)
> The machine's designers, IOW, have
>engineered it to work that way. Apple pioneered this approach with
>nuBus. Each card was expected to have a ROM on it with code that was run
>at boot time. I imagine each card reported what it was, and was told
>what addresses etc to use. Everything was set by software. Of course
>once the PC industry started looking at this things improved to the
>point that Apple could happily adopt PC standards, so it's largely a
>non-issue these days.
Indeed.
T i m
Pd
> 2LGL Sierra estate.
> broken cam belt (no probs, 'safe' engine)).
I shredded a cam belt on a Cavalier 1.6 at 2 in the morning near
Dartmoor. The AA guy that came to my rescue (silly me - I didn't carry a
spare cam belt) said his was probably the only AA van in the country
that would have had that particular belt on board, and that this model
of Cavalier was the only one that wouldn't have bent the valve stems.
Me happy.
--
Pd
T i m
wrote:
Nice feeling eh. ;-)
First thing I do when getting a new (to me) car is get some spare
belts and a cam belt (*if* it's a safe engine). Also clutch / throttle
cables if they are cheap / simple enough (I changed the Sierra clutch
cable at the roadside in about 10 mins).
I was talking to a garage owning mate today who had just been to a
seminar on upcoming technologies.
Soon, if you change the battery or even a headlight bulb you will have
to program the changes into the CPU.
The Prius sounds like it could be fun. You pop it up on the ramp to
change the oil and whilst you have it drained the computer could
decide the battery needs charging and start up on it's own! ;-)
Plus the added 'fun' of working around 500+ Volts.
The days of the 3 year life car are growing closer .. ;-(
T i m
SteveH
> In article <juth55pj4vfcq0fkm...@4ax.com>,
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > The Prius sounds like it could be fun. You pop it up on the ramp to
> > change the oil and whilst you have it drained the computer could
> > decide the battery needs charging and start up on it's own! ;-)
>
> With the ignition key out, you mean?
Heh.
The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
miles.
However, as you point out, they don't just 'start up on it's own',
unless you have the 'key' [1] in the ignition and have pressed the
'start' button.
[1] it's not a key, it's just a fob, with a slot in the dash.
SteveH
> > The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
> > and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
> > miles.
>
> Yes, I have a niece and a nephew who have one each. I have a dizzle C4
> which gets 54 or so long term as long as I don't do any city driving
> (e.g. London). The Prius scores there because its milage is unaffected
> by that.
>
> Still, you don't get your money back with the Prius - which I take to
> mean that it uses more of society's resources than it saves. Bit like
> the railways, really.
I used to get about the same MPG from a diesel Passat.
However.... this is costing me roughly a quarter what the Passat did in
company car tax every month. Which is a significant saving.
T i m
wrote:
>Tim Streater <timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <juth55pj4vfcq0fkm...@4ax.com>,
>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > The Prius sounds like it could be fun. You pop it up on the ramp to
>> > change the oil and whilst you have it drained the computer could
>> > decide the battery needs charging and start up on it's own! ;-)
>>
>> With the ignition key out, you mean?
>
>Heh.
>
>The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
>and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
>miles.
Very reasonable compared with what?
>
>However, as you point out, they don't just 'start up on it's own',
>unless you have the 'key' [1] in the ignition and have pressed the
>'start' button.
Hmm, well mate said they had a couple of Toyota guys there and they
suggested that this was the case (although I thought it was a bit
risky etc).
So you are confirming there is no time the computer could decide the
battery needs charging and the thing starting automatically? Again, if
this was to happen wouldn't it contravene some rules about leaving a
vehicle unattended with the engine running?
T i m
SteveH
> >The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
> >and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
> >miles.
>
> Very reasonable compared with what?
Any other reasonably large 5 door hatch, with room for 5 full-size
adults and their luggage, especially one with an auto gearbox.
> >However, as you point out, they don't just 'start up on it's own',
> >unless you have the 'key' [1] in the ignition and have pressed the
> >'start' button.
>
> Hmm, well mate said they had a couple of Toyota guys there and they
> suggested that this was the case (although I thought it was a bit
> risky etc).
>
> So you are confirming there is no time the computer could decide the
> battery needs charging and the thing starting automatically? Again, if
> this was to happen wouldn't it contravene some rules about leaving a
> vehicle unattended with the engine running?
No, it can't happen.
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> >The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
>> >and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
>> >miles.
>>
>> Very reasonable compared with what?
>
>Any other reasonably large 5 door hatch, with room for 5 full-size
>adults and their luggage, especially one with an auto gearbox.
Hmm, my old 218SD Rover hatchback is still doing 50 mpg and takes the
numbers you mention so it's not about MPG. The only real benefit of
the Prius (or most Hybrids) is the reduced emissions (for said MPG)
and the financial benefits for the owner / driver (+ reduced Road tax
/ Congestion Charges etc).
>
>>
>> So you are confirming there is no time the computer could decide the
>> battery needs charging and the thing starting automatically? Again, if
>> this was to happen wouldn't it contravene some rules about leaving a
>> vehicle unattended with the engine running?
>
>No, it can't happen.
Thanks, I'll tell him. ;-)
T i m
SteveH
> >Any other reasonably large 5 door hatch, with room for 5 full-size
> >adults and their luggage, especially one with an auto gearbox.
>
> Hmm, my old 218SD Rover hatchback is still doing 50 mpg and takes the
> numbers you mention so it's not about MPG. The only real benefit of
> the Prius (or most Hybrids) is the reduced emissions (for said MPG)
> and the financial benefits for the owner / driver (+ reduced Road tax
> / Congestion Charges etc).
> >
A 218SD is smaller, lighter, slower, has fewer toys, a manual gearbox,
and isn't stuffed full of airbags and impact protection bars.
You can't compare them.
You can only compare with currently available vehicles - and the Prius
is by far the most economical, family sized car with an auto box
available at the moment.
Whilst there are some concerns over the environmental status of the
batteries - although Toyota have pledged to re-cycle the packs anyway -
diesel is not the answer as it is full of nasty carcinogenic particles.
Steve Firth
> The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
> and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
> miles.
What a shame that every mile is sheer misery and that a lardy Mondeo is
better on mpg, as indeed is a BMW 520d.
SteveH
Shame they're not, though. Not if you compare like for like.
BMW's stop/start technology doesn't work with an auto box, so they start
to look very thirsty and gain a couple of bands on the co. car CO2
rating - and Mondeos just about match the Prius before you've fitted an
auto, but come out around 10mpg worse once the auto has been fitted.
They're also diesels, which, as I say, belch out some nasty carcinogenic
particles.
The same arguments are brought up time after time - 'but you can get a
more economical diesel of a similar size' - but that's only if you're
comparing the manual diesel with the auto Prius.
SteveH
> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > SteveH <st...@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
> > > and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
> > > miles.
> >
> > What a shame that every mile is sheer misery and that a lardy Mondeo is
> > better on mpg, as indeed is a BMW 520d.
>
> Shame they're not, though. Not if you compare like for like.
>
> BMW's stop/start technology doesn't work with an auto box, so they start
> to look very thirsty and gain a couple of bands on the co. car CO2
> rating - and Mondeos just about match the Prius before you've fitted an
> auto, but come out around 10mpg worse once the auto has been fitted.
>
> They're also diesels, which, as I say, belch out some nasty carcinogenic
> particles.
>
> The same arguments are brought up time after time - 'but you can get a
> more economical diesel of a similar size' - but that's only if you're
> comparing the manual diesel with the auto Prius.
Bad form, but, for all those who say they're 'sheer misery', I suggest
you spend some serious time behind the wheel - as just about all the
criticisms I've read on Usenet have come from people who either haven't
driven one, have driven an early one (2006 revisions improved them to a
significant extent), or just haven't driven one for long enough to form
a meaningful opinion.
Steve Firth
> Bad form, but, for all those who say they're 'sheer misery', I suggest
> you spend some serious time behind the wheel - as just about all the
> criticisms I've read on Usenet have come from people who either haven't
> driven one, have driven an early one (2006 revisions improved them to a
> significant extent), or just haven't driven one for long enough to form
> a meaningful opinion.
I've driven one. You're kidding yourself.
<ting> Is that a cocoa tin being kicked? No, it's a Prius door closing.
<wobble> Is that a jelly on a plate? No, it's a Prius cornering.
<bugger> Is that the sound of someone in pain? No. it's a Prius driver
trying to get a suitcase into the boot.
The Prius is sold with claims that it competes with a Mondeo. In truth
it's in the Seat Ibiza market segment. A Seat that is also Band A and
has a larger boot. Oh, and it does 72mpg.
Anyway, your Prius is last year's model. So you've no room to be sniffy.
At least you can watch that stupid display instead of the road ahead.
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> >Any other reasonably large 5 door hatch, with room for 5 full-size
>> >adults and their luggage, especially one with an auto gearbox.
>>
>> Hmm, my old 218SD Rover hatchback is still doing 50 mpg and takes the
>> numbers you mention so it's not about MPG. The only real benefit of
>> the Prius (or most Hybrids) is the reduced emissions (for said MPG)
>> and the financial benefits for the owner / driver (+ reduced Road tax
>> / Congestion Charges etc).
>> >
>
>A 218SD is smaller, lighter, slower, has fewer toys, a manual gearbox,
>and isn't stuffed full of airbags and impact protection bars.
>
>You can't compare them.
Erm, it carries 5 people and their luggage from A to B so that's all
that's required for a comparison in my book. I don't need 'toys', I
prefer a manual gearbox (and not a CVT) and the safety stuff is pretty
irrelevant if I also ride a motorbike (that has none, but I get yer
point).
>
>You can only compare with currently available vehicles - and the Prius
>is by far the most economical, family sized car with an auto box
>available at the moment.
Hmm, so the 'manual' Prius would be better economy still? ;-)
>
>Whilst there are some concerns over the environmental status of the
>batteries - although Toyota have pledged to re-cycle the packs anyway -
When my mate asked the Toyota man what the life of the battery was he
was told "They last the life of the car". Ooops.
>diesel is not the answer as it is full of nasty carcinogenic particles.
Indeed (although that's also getting much better) and exactly why I
said the Prius only 'works' (technically) because of emissions and the
bonus is the financial claw backs though other 'discounts' for the
owner / driver (ignoring any feelings about the actual car itself
etc). I wonder if it will be a simple / cheap to run / maintain when
it's 17 years old like my Rover? Green isn't just the immediate
emissions but the servicing, spare parts, lifespan etc etc. Every time
you have to make a non scheduled visit to the garage you are eating
into it's 'greenness'.
So, we agree the 'battery' is simply an energy store [1] and as long
as it is big enough to recoup all otherwise wasted energy (braking) it
doesn't have to pretend to be an EV.
To give the IC engine any reasonable assistance the battery may have
to be a bit bigger (for an given duty cycle and still without trying
to be an EV etc).
But it still only manages a real 47.3 mpg?
Not the same thing but my Mums petrol Morris Minor was doing 50 mpg 30
years ago (all be it not as clean). They are now doing better with the
likes of the Suzuki Alto (petrol), 65 mpg and simple technology. Big
cars are so last century. ;-)
What I'm trying to say here is if the Prius was doing say 100 mpg and
being 'clean' then I think it would be getting somewhere (I'm not
interested if it's a 'drivers car' or not. Cars are for transport).
T i m
[1] It could be compressed air or inertial and they would be even
'greener'.
SteveH
> SteveH <st...@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Bad form, but, for all those who say they're 'sheer misery', I suggest
> > you spend some serious time behind the wheel - as just about all the
> > criticisms I've read on Usenet have come from people who either haven't
> > driven one, have driven an early one (2006 revisions improved them to a
> > significant extent), or just haven't driven one for long enough to form
> > a meaningful opinion.
>
> I've driven one. You're kidding yourself.
>
> <ting> Is that a cocoa tin being kicked? No, it's a Prius door closing.
Yes, they are a little tinny - it's part of the weight saving measures.
However, it's only the external panels that are thin. If other
manufacturers did the same, we wouldn't have superminis that weigh more
than executive class cars did 20 years ago.
> <wobble> Is that a jelly on a plate? No, it's a Prius cornering.
That's absolutely not the case, and is a sign that you've only driven
the early, pre facelift version.
> <bugger> Is that the sound of someone in pain? No. it's a Prius driver
> trying to get a suitcase into the boot.
> The Prius is sold with claims that it competes with a Mondeo. In truth
> it's in the Seat Ibiza market segment. A Seat that is also Band A and
> has a larger boot. Oh, and it does 72mpg.
It's bigger inside than a Focus hatch and has a bigger boot than a Focus
hatch.
More unsubstantiated rubbish, then.
> Anyway, your Prius is last year's model. So you've no room to be sniffy.
It's the current model - the 'new' one isn't yet available in the UK.
Not that it really matters unless you put badge snobbery and having the
latest plate at the top of your priorities.
> At least you can watch that stupid display instead of the road ahead.
The display that's my sat. nav, bluetooth phone and JBL audio system,
you mean?
SteveH
> >A 218SD is smaller, lighter, slower, has fewer toys, a manual gearbox,
> >and isn't stuffed full of airbags and impact protection bars.
> >
> >You can't compare them.
>
> Erm, it carries 5 people and their luggage from A to B so that's all
> that's required for a comparison in my book. I don't need 'toys', I
> prefer a manual gearbox (and not a CVT) and the safety stuff is pretty
> irrelevant if I also ride a motorbike (that has none, but I get yer
> point).
Automatic is important to me. This is the most economical full-sized
auto on the market.
> >You can only compare with currently available vehicles - and the Prius
> >is by far the most economical, family sized car with an auto box
> >available at the moment.
>
> Hmm, so the 'manual' Prius would be better economy still? ;-)
> >
> >Whilst there are some concerns over the environmental status of the
> >batteries - although Toyota have pledged to re-cycle the packs anyway -
>
> When my mate asked the Toyota man what the life of the battery was he
> was told "They last the life of the car". Ooops.
As I recall, the warranty on the hybrid components is 9 years. Which is
the 'average' life of a car in the UK.
> >diesel is not the answer as it is full of nasty carcinogenic particles.
>
> Indeed (although that's also getting much better) and exactly why I
> said the Prius only 'works' (technically) because of emissions and the
> bonus is the financial claw backs though other 'discounts' for the
> owner / driver (ignoring any feelings about the actual car itself
> etc). I wonder if it will be a simple / cheap to run / maintain when
> it's 17 years old like my Rover? Green isn't just the immediate
> emissions but the servicing, spare parts, lifespan etc etc. Every time
> you have to make a non scheduled visit to the garage you are eating
> into it's 'greenness'.
All of which can be levelled at any modern car now we have an ECU for
everything and multiplex wiring.
> So, we agree the 'battery' is simply an energy store [1] and as long
> as it is big enough to recoup all otherwise wasted energy (braking) it
> doesn't have to pretend to be an EV.
It isn't pretending to be an EV. It's a hybrid.
> To give the IC engine any reasonable assistance the battery may have
> to be a bit bigger (for an given duty cycle and still without trying
> to be an EV etc).
>
> But it still only manages a real 47.3 mpg?
Well, my point of reference is a Focus 1.6TDCI which only managed around
44mpg in my hands, or a Passat 2.0TDCI which managed 42mpg.
You can only compare economy when the cars are being driven by the same
person.
> Not the same thing but my Mums petrol Morris Minor was doing 50 mpg 30
> years ago (all be it not as clean). They are now doing better with the
> likes of the Suzuki Alto (petrol), 65 mpg and simple technology. Big
> cars are so last century. ;-)
You wouldn't want to do 500-1000 miles / week in a Minor or Alto on a
regular basis.
> What I'm trying to say here is if the Prius was doing say 100 mpg and
> being 'clean' then I think it would be getting somewhere (I'm not
> interested if it's a 'drivers car' or not. Cars are for transport).
But it's doing a lot better than a modern diesel of comparable size, in
my hands, which means it's a success, really.
T i m
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>> You can only compare with currently available vehicles - and the Prius
>> is by far the most economical, family sized car with an auto box
>> available at the moment.
>
>As I said, my C4 dizzle manual-but-clutchless auto (if that makes sense)
>is getting 54 long-term.
Ah, but you aren't hooning it around as only a 'petrolhead' would Tim.
;-)
No, fair play to SteveH, if he finds that the Prius suits his needs,
is yielding the best mpg for his driving style, it's being pad for by
someone else and he reaps other financial benefits because of it's
perceived 'greenness' (he didn't make up the rules) then so be it.
Like I said elsewhere, my 2LGL Sierra Estate was my best option at the
time, primarily because it was free (company car) and more important
to me at the time, one of the few vehicles I could actually sit in
without having my head jammed against the roof-lining or my knees
round my ears like in a go cart. I actually didn't like the shape of
it (after a MKV Cortina estate) and did the rounds (with a company
cheque for �8k) and reluctantly ended up back at the Ford dealer.
In spite of it writing off a Volvo(!) and a Marina (easy) during it's
life and being broken into and hit by a lorry it lived on for 23 years
and I only finally broke it [1] because I was given the Rover (twice
as economical) and it was starting to look quite scruffy.
I still have the engine out of it and was going to put that in the
kitcar.
T i m
[1] The day before I broke it I drove it over to Southend to get some
parts from a breaker (to put the engine in the kitcar) and it was
still fully road legal and running very well.
Woody
> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:15:05 +0100, st...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
> wrote:
>
> >Tim Streater <timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <juth55pj4vfcq0fkm...@4ax.com>,
> >> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> > The Prius sounds like it could be fun. You pop it up on the ramp to
> >> > change the oil and whilst you have it drained the computer could
> >> > decide the battery needs charging and start up on it's own! ;-)
> >>
> >> With the ignition key out, you mean?
> >
> >Heh.
> >
> >The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
You drive on the wrong side of the road smashing cars out of the way?
> >and it is returning a very reasonable 47.3mpg over the last 6 weeks, 5k
> >miles.
>
> Very reasonable compared with what?
Very reasonable compared to my mazda 6. Or the previous celicas, and
certainly the supra. And probably compared to the FTO, though I never
measured that.
--
Woody
T i m
wrote:
>> >The Prius is a very clever bit of kit - I drive mine 'like I stole it',
>
>You drive on the wrong side of the road smashing cars out of the way?
It's a company car, they love it! ;-)
T i m