Why would wireless wobble?
John Hill
my ISP, who were unwilling to investigate my abysmal broadband speed
unless I used their modem.
It worked perfectly satisfactorily until last Saturday, when the
transfer rate dropped to almost nothing. On Sunday I lost connection and
could not restore it. In the evening it came back of its own accord, and
since then it has been as normal.
My wife has an ethernet connection to the same modem and her broadband
speed has not been affected.
What can cause a wireless connection to splutter in this way? Nothing IN
the house has been changed. Could it be interference from some other
wireless connection in the neighbourhood? Or interference from some
other source?
And if it happens again, is there anything I can do about it?
For the record, if I <option>click the Airport icon in the menu bar, it
tells me that it is using Channel 11 (2.4 GHz) and the Transmit Rate is
54 (whatever that means).
John.
--
Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.
T i m
wrote:
>My wife has an ethernet connection to the same modem and her broadband
>speed has not been affected.
If it's to the same box we are talking router here then really?
>
>What can cause a wireless connection to splutter in this way? Nothing IN
>the house has been changed. Could it be interference from some other
>wireless connection in the neighbourhood?
Yes.
> Or interference from some
>other source?
Yes, microwaves, car / house alarms, TV 'senders', remote 'HiFi'
speakers, other radio stuff that's either near, loud or on a harmonic
etc.
>
>And if it happens again, is there anything I can do about it?
Sometimes, although that may involve an Ethernet cable or Ethernet
_over_mains or other WiFi solution (802.11n).
>
>For the record, if I <option>click the Airport icon in the menu bar, it
>tells me that it is using Channel 11 (2.4 GHz) and the Transmit Rate is
>54 (whatever that means).
The WiFi radio band is broken up into a rage of 'channels', just like
many commercial radio / TV broadcasts or Radio Control models etc.
The basic range on frequencies in the UK are allocated 1 to 13 for
easy use (and not the same range in all countries) and the ideal
solution is to be on your own unique frequency for your local hood and
better a few channels away from anyone else.
Many routers never get changed from default and so certain channels
often become over-used, like 1, 6, 11 etc.
The way to try to improve your own situation (it could change at any
time of course) is to download a WiFi sniffer, possibly:
then turn your router off and run the sniffer to show you all the
channels that are being used locally. Pick one that is the lest used
(or unused) or if there isn't a completely spare slot, one with the
lowest signal strength (suggesting it's further away) and ideally a
couple away from any other channel.
Then you connect to your router (look for your default gateway I/P
address in your WiFi info when it's connected) and set your WiFi
channel to your chosen one. Even if there isn't a completely free one
avoiding the common ones or simply just changing the channel to
something else may help. For now.
The transmit rate you mention is the std speed (Mbps) for the 802.11g
standard (and suggests you have a reasonable actual connection between
your Mac and your router.
Cheers, T i m
Jaimie Vandenbergh
wrote:
>What can cause a wireless connection to splutter in this way? Nothing IN
>the house has been changed. Could it be interference from some other
>wireless connection in the neighbourhood? Or interference from some
>other source?
Yes to both - it will almost certainly be an environmental effect.
Possibly a neighbour got a new wifi box (probably an extended range
one with strong signal) and set it to channel 11 also, swamping yours.
Then later tried another channel, since you'd be interfering with them
too. 802.11g isn't much good at dealing with that - 802.11n is better,
but it'll still be perturbed.
Microwaves and no doubt heavier equipment can molest a wifi signal
too, but it's unlikely a neighbour had their microwave (or portable
electric furnace...) on all day.
If it's gone back to normal, don't worry about it too much.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
Some people have years of experience.
Some have one year's experience several times.
John Hill
Thanks to you and Tim for this helpful advice. I have downloaded
MacStumbler, but at the moment all is well and "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it". So I will hold it, and your messages, in reserve until the
problem resurfaces.
John Hill
As a quick follow-up, I see that my WiFi includes under Channel an
"Automatic" setting, which claims to use the best available. Would it be
a wise move to select this?
Jim
> As a quick follow-up, I see that my WiFi includes under Channel an
> "Automatic" setting, which claims to use the best available. Would it be
> a wise move to select this?
My own experience with that setting hasn't been great, to be honest. I'd
stick with what you've got until yuo really have to change it for some
reason.
Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/GreyAreaUK
"A Microsoft spokesman said: "We spent five years and $350million
developing a system that would make it really easy for us not to
give you your money back." The Daily Mash
Jaimie Vandenbergh
wrote:
>On 2009-12-15, John Hill <ne...@erewhon.invalid> wrote:
>> As a quick follow-up, I see that my WiFi includes under Channel an
>> "Automatic" setting, which claims to use the best available. Would it be
>> a wise move to select this?
>
>My own experience with that setting hasn't been great, to be honest. I'd
>stick with what you've got until yuo really have to change it for some
>reason.
Likewise - that "automatic" only picks a channel when you boot the
wifi device, so it wouldn't have avoided the issue you saw. Unless
you'd rebooted the wifi trying to get a fix, that is.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I do not like the feel of the middle way; and I do not like the smell of
the left hand way" -- J R R Tolkien
Peter Hayes
>
> The way to try to improve your own situation (it could change at any
> time of course) is to download a WiFi sniffer, possibly:
>
> http://www.macstumbler.com/
>
> then turn your router off and run the sniffer to show you all the
> channels that are being used locally. Pick one that is the lest used
> (or unused) or if there isn't a completely spare slot, one with the
> lowest signal strength (suggesting it's further away) and ideally a
> couple away from any other channel.
>
MacStumbler has not been updated since 2007, and does not work at all
with the latest OS X. Shame as it was a product I liked and supported.
I've got an old OS X backup on a firewire disk which does support
MacStumbler and my old scanner, it's worth buying a new backup disk just
to keep them working.
Pete H
T i m
<aphn...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>On 15/12/2009 09:39, T i m wrote:
>
>>
>> The way to try to improve your own situation (it could change at any
>> time of course) is to download a WiFi sniffer, possibly:
>>
>> http://www.macstumbler.com/
>>
>> then turn your router off and run the sniffer to show you all the
>> channels that are being used locally. Pick one that is the lest used
>> (or unused) or if there isn't a completely spare slot, one with the
>> lowest signal strength (suggesting it's further away) and ideally a
>> couple away from any other channel.
>>
>
>MacStumbler has not been updated since 2007, and does not work at all
>with the latest OS X. Shame as it was a product I liked and supported.
I spotted something might not be quite right when I explored the link
I posted to MacStumbler. I just Googled 'netstumbler osx' and it gave
me that and as it seemed likely as I've been using Netstumbler for
good while now ...
>I've got an old OS X backup on a firewire disk which does support
>MacStumbler and my old scanner, it's worth buying a new backup disk just
>to keep them working.
Luckily, all the software I require just needs 'Windows' and for
nearly 10 years that seems to include XP. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Woody
Lucky to be you. I now have two tools with system requirements I use for
work. One is Vista or Windows 7 (ie, windows 7!) and the other is XP
only.
I finally have an actual requirement for having to use VM of an XP
image.
--
Woody
T i m
wrote:
>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:22:15 +0000, Peter Hayes
>> <aphn...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>> >I've got an old OS X backup on a firewire disk which does support
>> >MacStumbler and my old scanner, it's worth buying a new backup disk just
>> >to keep them working.
>>
>> Luckily, all the software I require just needs 'Windows' and for
>> nearly 10 years that seems to include XP. ;-)
>
>Lucky to be you.
Not sure about that ... ;-)
> I now have two tools with system requirements I use for
>work. One is Vista or Windows 7 (ie, windows 7!) and the other is XP
>only.
I have seen some apps / utils that when I've gone to download they
said Vista only etc but they were never deal breaking things (and not
had that for a while strangely? Maybe they realised many people were
still happy with XP?). I've seen a good few more that state they
aren't Vista / W7 compatible of course but that hasn't bothered me.
;-)
It just seems to me that since 2001 I have been able to continue to
use new / old stuff whereas even since I've been using OSX I've been
caught up in the 'you must have ,' or 'it won't run on' type things
(didn't OSX come out in 2002 and how many versions of it have we had
now). The only thing that did affect XP similarly is the 'Needs SP1'
and that's easily resolvable.
>I finally have an actual requirement for having to use VM of an XP
>image.
Whilst I like the idea of VM's (and I know it's the future in some
fields) I can't think of how I could make good use of one. Like,
running OSX on XP might be good to be able to look at stuff without
having to Bootcamp into OSX, but, it would have to cleanly shut itself
down if I shut down the host system (and I don't think those I tried
did so?).[1]
Cheers, T i m
[1] Probably XP on Linux via Virtualbox or XP on OSX via Parallels3.
John Hill
I found an application called AirRadar, which is shareware but gives you
a few days free trial. It revealed two networks besides my own, of which
one is also on channel 11 and one is on channel 7. If I change to for
example, channel 9, will this take place automatically? Will Airport
handle it or will it have to be turned off and on again?
I'm a bit nervous about this...
T i m
wrote:
>I found an application called AirRadar, which is shareware but gives you
>a few days free trial. It revealed two networks besides my own, of which
>one is also on channel 11 and one is on channel 7. If I change to for
>example, channel 9, will this take place automatically?
Personally and for no real technical reason I'd probably go for
channel 3. The feeling comes from seeing the leakage from microwave
ovens walking all over the middle range (with a WiSpy sniffer). Whilst
a microwave oven might not be on all night, 20 mins of interference
could still be a pain.
> Will Airport
>handle it or will it have to be turned off and on again?
Can't answer that one, never seen an 'Airport' in the flesh.
>
>I'm a bit nervous about this...
I can't see there being any issues (unlike changing the security code
over Wifi can be in a few instances) *as long as* you also have access
to the device via an Ethernet cable.
In general, changing the channel is in an innocuous action, the client
simply re-finding and connecting to the router when it sees it
re-appear on it's new channel (SSID and key being the same etc).
The only 'risk' is arbitrarily choosing another channel and then
finding it's swamped by some 'other' (non WiFi) signal, that didn't
(wouldn't) appear on a device, only looking for real WiFi traffic.
Using my WiSpy kit I've located the 'unseen' source of such RF
signals. One was a rouge HiFi remote speaker setup and the other a TV
sender.
These may help explain how it all works.
http://www.metageek.net/support/videos
Cheers, T i m
John Hill
Thanks, Tim - yet another WiFi has turned up n channel 11 :-(
I'll consider my options...
T i m
wrote:
>>
>> These may help explain how it all works.
>>
>> http://www.metageek.net/support/videos
>>
>> Cheers, T i m
>
>Thanks, Tim - yet another WiFi has turned up n channel 11 :-(
>
>I'll consider my options...
Well, as long as you have (or can arrange easily) a hard wired
connection to the AP then you can always / easily change stuff.
A mate recently gave me a Belkin cable router. Another mate turned up
today who has recently got a laptop from work and was considering a
suitable router (he's on cable). I offered him my spare, pre
configured it for him, printed off all the settings / passwords and
sent him on his way.
He popped up MSN not long afterwards from his WiFi laptop and was a
happy chappy. ;-)
I'd left the channel selection on the router to 'Auto" as I wasn't
able to do a site survey and at least it might set / change to a free
channel if he has problems.
Cheers, T i m
Jaimie Vandenbergh
wrote:
>Thanks, Tim - yet another WiFi has turned up n channel 11 :-(
>
>I'll consider my options...
11 is pretty much the standard default, so you're sensible to get off
it.
Just set your AP to another channel. Try and leave a buffer of one
between you and another wifi, or just go through 1, 6, 3, 8 and then
the rest until you find something reliable.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
If you own a jackhammer, every problem looks like hours of fun
John Hill
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:42:22 +0000, ne...@erewhon.invalid (John Hill)
> wrote:
>
> >Thanks, Tim - yet another WiFi has turned up n channel 11 :-(
> >
> >I'll consider my options...
>
> 11 is pretty much the standard default, so you're sensible to get off
> it.
>
> Just set your AP to another channel. Try and leave a buffer of one
> between you and another wifi, or just go through 1, 6, 3, 8 and then
> the rest until you find something reliable.
>
> Cheers - Jaimie
I went to the Wireless Settings on the modem and changed the channel to
3. I was asked to wait 30 seconds while the changes were made (it always
does that, of any change) and then redirected me to the settigns page.I
option-clicked on the Airport icon, and Lo! it reported Channel 3.
I was astonished how painless it was. I had expected to have to turn
Airport off and on again at the very least.
AirRadar reports a signal fo around 51% and a noise level of about 16%,
which is about what I saw on Channel 11 - but I am now well removed from
other channels in use locally. (There are three on Channel 11 and one on
channel 7).
I shall feel easier in my mind changing channel again if I have any
trouble in the future!
My thanks to you and Tim for the very valuable help you have given me!
T i m
wrote:
>I went to the Wireless Settings on the modem and changed the channel to
>3.
Just for the future ... I think we are talking more about the
functions of what is an 'Access point / router' than a modem here,
even if it has a modem built in. So, to avoid any confusion it may be
best to try to refer to it as 'a router'. 'Modems', can be stand-alone
devices and generally aren't routers or WiFi access points and not all
routers have modems built in either (like the ones suitable for
cable). (I may be wrong with all that as I'm not familiar with the
Airport products).
>I was asked to wait 30 seconds while the changes were made (it always
>does that, of any change) and then redirected me to the settigns page.I
>option-clicked on the Airport icon, and Lo! it reported Channel 3.
Sweet. ;-)
>
>I was astonished how painless it was. I had expected to have to turn
>Airport off and on again at the very least.
These things can always sound daunting and you are / were right to ask
and be cautious because there are traps and gotchas waiting to catch
the gung-ho. Like my reference to a Ethernet cable as an emergency
back-door. You can often get away with it but it's a bit like Russian
Roulette. ;-)
>
>I shall feel easier in my mind changing channel again if I have any
>trouble in the future!
Yep, it all helps the general understanding. I quite like it when I
have need to restore something (like a motorbike) because in so doing
I learn more about it than I would by just riding it.We have just
bought an electrically assisted bicycle in 'kit form' and I's been fun
re-wiring and learning about all the functions (and there are quite a
few considering it's a 'bicycle'. ;-)
>
All the best,
T i m