Windows 8 Pre-Order @ Amazon

[Nick Le Lievre]

Just pre-ordered Windows 8 Pro from Amazon for � 41.66 ex VAT which is not
bad as I paid � 39.10 ex VAT for Windows 7 Home Premium when it was on
pre-release. Its an upgrade version but you are supposedly able to do a
clean install with it and in fact XP cannot be upgraded to Windows 8.

[Nick Le Lievre]

>"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message news:k25c8d$c0a$1...@news.albasani.net...

Just cancelled due to the fact this upgrade will be offered as a download
from Microsoft for just � 24.99 at that price I can afford to upgrade both
my machines.

[Chris Whelan]

Have you actually tried any of the W8 previews?

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

[Nick Le Lievre]

>"Chris Whelan" wrote in message news:2Ht1s.233882$ZY7.2...@fx18.am4...

>
> Just cancelled due to the fact this upgrade will be offered as a
> download from Microsoft for just £ 24.99 at that price I can afford to
> upgrade both my machines.
>
>Have you actually tried any of the W8 previews?

Not but they couldn't release another Vista could they? COULD THEY????!!

[Rob Morley]

I've tried the previews, a couple of times, and I wouldn't pay for
that crap.

[Tony Houghton]

In <k25c8d$c0a$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Nick Le Lievre <nickle...@jerseymail.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

According to the discussion on Amazon you could have got it for £25 if
you ordered a downloadable version from MS.

Does anyone know whether OEM installations of XP are eligible for the
upgrade?

--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha! No, it's worse.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Ambiguity Man Strikes Again! (...or /does/ he?)
-- Eric Schwartz, asr

[Nick Le Lievre]

>"Tony Houghton" wrote in message news:slrnk4cp...@realh.co.uk...

>
>According to the discussion on Amazon you could have got it for £25 if
>you ordered a downloadable version from MS.
>
>Does anyone know whether OEM installations of XP are eligible for the
>upgrade?

As far as I am aware any version of any existing M$ operating system from XP
onwards are included, and the downloadable version from M$ isn't available
until 26th October so there is still plenty of time to get a copy for £ 25

[SteveH]

Nick Le Lievre used his keyboard to write :

>>"Chris Whelan" wrote in message news:2Ht1s.233882$ZY7.2...@fx18.am4...
>>
>> Just cancelled due to the fact this upgrade will be offered as a

>> download from Microsoft for just ￜ 24.99 at that price I can afford to

>> upgrade both my machines.
>>
>>Have you actually tried any of the W8 previews?
>
> Not but they couldn't release another Vista could they? COULD THEY????!!

Well, based on the fact that every other o/s that MS realease is crap..

[Rob Morley]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:09:41 +0100
SteveH <stevenho...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Nick Le Lievre used his keyboard to write :
> >>"Chris Whelan" wrote in message
> >>news:2Ht1s.233882$ZY7.2...@fx18.am4...
> >>
> >> Just cancelled due to the fact this upgrade will be offered as a

> >> download from Microsoft for just � 24.99 at that price I can

> >> afford to upgrade both my machines.
> >>
> >>Have you actually tried any of the W8 previews?
> >
> > Not but they couldn't release another Vista could they? COULD
> > THEY????!!
>
> Well, based on the fact that every other o/s that MS realease is
> crap..
>

I have fond memories of NT4. Well, it was more stable than W95,
but then Slackware was stable and faster on the same hardware ...

[Michael Chare]

You can order a full (non upgrade) Pro version for �49.99 from PCWorld
The Key lets you run Windows 7 which maybe the best bit.


--
Michael Chare

[Chris Whelan]

I know several undemanding folk who are perfectly happy with Vista; I've
not spoken to anyone yet who can get to grips with W8. It's trying to be
all things to all men, and failing at most of them. In particular, it
seems to me to be totally unsuitable for a desktop machine.

I would urge anyone thinking of upgrading purely on the basis of wanting
the 'latest and greatest' to try a preview if they have the ability to do
so, or at the very least to read as many reviews as possible. W8 is
*very* different from all previous versions. and IMHO not in a good way.

[Gordon]

Some people think it is worse.

The problem seems to be that Ms has/is trying to give the same experience on
the desktop, mobile, and anything else. Problem is that the platforms are
too different for this to happen in a smooth way.

Remember all the vapourware of Vista?

[Bill]

In message <aaogr9...@mid.individual.net>, Gordon
<Gor...@clear.net.nz> writes

>On 2012-09-04, Nick Le Lievre <nickle...@jerseymail.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> Not but they couldn't release another Vista could they? COULD THEY????!!
>>
>Some people think it is worse.
>

Maybe I should give the trial version another go, but after 2 days I
went back to spending my time delving into CentOS (Mr Tomlinson has a
lot to answer for).

I thought start simple on W8, try Solitaire. Discovered I had to
register with MS to download it. No thanks.

On the ex-Vista laptop, it loaded a "Microsoft" audio driver. This
played back but didn't record. I had to find the old Realtek Vista
driver and install that to enable recording.
Loaded on an audio editor and tried it - seemed to work OK. Recorded and
edited. Then double clicked on the edited file to check it played
through the built in media player. Played OK, but the included X-box (?)
player then tried to sell me a film download.


These are minor things, but who needs an OS that makes them angry?
--
Bill

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <Iu31L0j9...@itsound.demon.co.uk>, Bill
<Billa...@gmail.com> writes

>(Mr Tomlinson has a
>lot to answer for).

whoops. :-)

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[Andrew]

"Jaimie Vandenbergh" wrote in message
news:c0rc48hhqh1i3s4bh...@4ax.com...

>
> Ah ha ha ha ha ha! No, it's worse.
>
> Cheers - Jaimie

I don't think it's that bad! It starts up quicker than Windows 7 and
generally feels at least as fast if not faster on the same hardware, which
is reason enough to buy it. If the lack of a 'start' menu bothers you,
there's always 3rd party add-ons that mimic it. I'm finding the tiles are
actually a quick way to locate and launch programs. Windows key + R still
works for quickly running things. The thing I miss most is perhaps Aero
flip (Windows key + TAB) to cycle open windows. That was really useful for
finding elusive msgboxs / dlgboxs in apps with dodgy focus issues. On the
whole, I think people will get used to 8; it's certainly not another Vista.

[Michael Chare]

I have to confess that my dislike for Windows 8 on the desktop means
discourages me from buying anything else such as the latest Nokia Lumia
820 and 920 phones, with Windows 8. I see Nokia's share price fell after
they announced the phones!


--
Michael Chare

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Friend of mine uses a Winpho7 with Win7, and says the integration is
at least as good as Apple iOS&Mac or Android&Google. I've had a play
and it's a really nice phone OS (which needs a bit more maturity, much
like iOS did for the first couple of years).

But Windows 8 on the desktop is awful. Worst user experience and
mixed-up UI out there today. But people will learn to live with it,
like every other version of Windows...

Cheers - Jaimie
--
There's no place like 127.0.0.1

[Mark]

Windows XP was the last version of Windows I chose to use.
I haven't looked at Windows 8 though. If I wanted a tablet OS I
wouldn't use Windows.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

[Rob Morley]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 00:51:49 +0100
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> Friend of mine uses a Winpho7 with Win7, and says the integration is
> at least as good as Apple iOS&Mac or Android&Google. I've had a play
> and it's a really nice phone OS (which needs a bit more maturity, much
> like iOS did for the first couple of years).
>

Windows Phone 8 is apparently based on the NT kernel, so not a
progression of 7.x

[Michael Chare]

On 06/09/2012 00:51, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 00:14:03 +0100, Michael Chare
> <mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/2012 09:29, Gordon wrote:
>>> On 2012-09-04, Nick Le Lievre <nickle...@jerseymail.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> The problem seems to be that Ms has/is trying to give the same experience on
>>> the desktop, mobile, and anything else. Problem is that the platforms are
>>> too different for this to happen in a smooth way.
>>>
>> I have to confess that my dislike for Windows 8 on the desktop means
>> discourages me from buying anything else such as the latest Nokia Lumia
>> 820 and 920 phones, with Windows 8. I see Nokia's share price fell after
>> they announced the phones!
>
> Friend of mine uses a Winpho7 with Win7, and says the integration is
> at least as good as Apple iOS&Mac or Android&Google. I've had a play
> and it's a really nice phone OS (which needs a bit more maturity, much
> like iOS did for the first couple of years).
>

The one application that I like on my Symbian phone is Nokia maps.
My phone has a conventional keypad and I can zoom in and out and scroll
the map with one hand. An important feature as I use my other hand for
directional control!

I do wonder if this is possible with a touch phone.


--
Michael Chare

[Tony Houghton]

[Not replying to any post in particular in this thread]

I discovered that Windows 7 was lying to me when the pre-installed
"trial" version on my new laptop accepted the key from my old laptop
(which I only ever ran Linux on anyway) so I thought I had little to
lose by trying the Windows 8 Preview on it.

Has anyone else here noticed you can't shut the damn thing down?! I
eventually found a "Shutdown" button/menu when I logged out, but it's
another lie, it only hibernates. MS's latest attack on dual booters?

A quick web search revealed that even if they don't care about the
difference between hibernate and shutdown thousands of users are having
to use Google before they can do either.

[Michael Chare]

IIRC alt+F4 works, like closing open windows. But I agree it is
ridiculous that you need to google to find out how to shut it down.

--
Michael Chare

[Rob Morley]

Is it really that hard to find? I figured it out by myself, but I
think it's a crap interface design.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:39:28 +0100, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

I never even looked. After a half hour playing with it, where I got
myself stuck on an intentional-as-designed blank white screen *twice*
(the second time I knew how to use the hidden popup back button), I
closed down the VM and later deleted it.

First white screen is if you go into Mail, then discover it wants an
Exchange account to talk to so you quit out of the process - and it
leaves you at a blank screen with no hints whatsoever as to what to do
next. Can't recall how I got the other one now.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"For our younger readers -
books are hardened bits of the internet that have fallen off."
-- http://www.e4.com/wtf/ispot-games/?sheet=28

[Johny B Good]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:10:49 +0100, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:


>
>Windows XP was the last version of Windows I chose to use.
>I haven't looked at Windows 8 though. If I wanted a tablet OS I
>wouldn't use Windows.

Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.

Although it's possible to configure winXP to look like win2k, the
unfortunate lobotomy inflicted on explorer makes the "open each folder
in its own window" option an exercise in frustration.

I know that winXP now looks bloody marvelous in its 'ease of use'
now that we have Vista (and win7) available for comparison but that
doesn't really mitigate its festering crapness in my view.

Win7 (and, probably Vista too) seem to have been designed to distance
the 'users' from the basic technology to the point where it has
perverted what was, essentially, a general purpose desktop digital
computer capable of being a 'Jack of All Trades (one time) Master of
None" machine into "A Magic Box" requiring the _purchase_ of "Magic
Spells", either online from the e-tailors of "Magic" or in an actual
"Magic Store".

With win7, at least, it's gotten to such an extreme that the OS will
behave like a wounded animal when its disk drive becomes afflicted
with bad sectors, electing to hide its malady behind a mysteriously
sluggish response more typical of a very bad malware infestation
rather than admit that it isn't, in fact, a "Magic Box" as would
happen in win2k (and, even winXP) with a copious supply of error
message pop ups under the very same circumstance.

The plain fact is, "The less your customers' know, the more you can
milk them for vast profit". It is this thinking that drives any large
corporate business with no heed of the greater consequences that often
ensue. Don't expect 'computer usability' to improve any time soon with
later windows editions.

--
Regards, J B Good

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:45:31 +0100, Johny B Good
<johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
>tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
>chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
>pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.

Win2k was already disintegrating under it's own morass - that was when
the video drivers were moved into ring 0, breaking both the security
model of NT4 and stability.

It hasn't got a lot better since...

Cheers - Jaimie
--
To every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong.
-- HL Mencken

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:45:31 +0100, Johny B Good
<johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:10:49 +0100, Mark
><i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>Windows XP was the last version of Windows I chose to use.
>>I haven't looked at Windows 8 though. If I wanted a tablet OS I
>>wouldn't use Windows.
>
> Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
>tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
>chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
>pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.
>
>Although it's possible to configure winXP to look like win2k, the
>unfortunate lobotomy inflicted on explorer makes the "open each folder
>in its own window" option an exercise in frustration.

I agree that WinXP was worse than W2K but I had to 'upgrade' because
certain software vendors ensured that their software wouldn't run on
2K.

> I know that winXP now looks bloody marvelous in its 'ease of use'
>now that we have Vista (and win7) available for comparison but that
>doesn't really mitigate its festering crapness in my view.

I don't know. The sheer lack of usuability and stunningly bad
performance of Vista made me feel less antagonistic to XP.

> Win7 (and, probably Vista too) seem to have been designed to distance
>the 'users' from the basic technology to the point where it has
>perverted what was, essentially, a general purpose desktop digital
>computer capable of being a 'Jack of All Trades (one time) Master of
>None" machine into "A Magic Box" requiring the _purchase_ of "Magic
>Spells", either online from the e-tailors of "Magic" or in an actual
>"Magic Store".

Isn't that how most people view computers & software (as magic)?

> With win7, at least, it's gotten to such an extreme that the OS will
>behave like a wounded animal when its disk drive becomes afflicted
>with bad sectors, electing to hide its malady behind a mysteriously
>sluggish response more typical of a very bad malware infestation
>rather than admit that it isn't, in fact, a "Magic Box" as would
>happen in win2k (and, even winXP) with a copious supply of error
>message pop ups under the very same circumstance.

My son has been inflicted with disk problems on his W7 laptop. I
don't know much about W7 (and I don't really want to). How do you
monitor disk health on W7?

> The plain fact is, "The less your customers' know, the more you can
>milk them for vast profit". It is this thinking that drives any large
>corporate business with no heed of the greater consequences that often
>ensue. Don't expect 'computer usability' to improve any time soon with
>later windows editions.

Quite. I get very frustated with bloody M$ Office which often won't
display a document created by a slightly different version of the
*same* software. Open/Libre Office sometimes also suffers but that is
to be expected.

[Rob Morley]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 03:27:49 +0100
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:45:31 +0100, Johny B Good
> <johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
> >tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
> >chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
> >pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.
>
> Win2k was already disintegrating under it's own morass - that was when
> the video drivers were moved into ring 0, breaking both the security
> model of NT4 and stability.
>
> It hasn't got a lot better since...

I used to like NT4SP6a, I think I still have a copy somewhere ...

[Johny B Good]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:05:27 +0100, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:45:31 +0100, Johny B Good
><johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:10:49 +0100, Mark
>><i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>Windows XP was the last version of Windows I chose to use.
>>>I haven't looked at Windows 8 though. If I wanted a tablet OS I
>>>wouldn't use Windows.
>>
>> Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
>>tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
>>chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
>>pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.
>>
>>Although it's possible to configure winXP to look like win2k, the
>>unfortunate lobotomy inflicted on explorer makes the "open each folder
>>in its own window" option an exercise in frustration.
>
>I agree that WinXP was worse than W2K but I had to 'upgrade' because
>certain software vendors ensured that their software wouldn't run on
>2K.

As was the case with win95osr2 versus win98 regarding USB device
support. MS chose this strategy to 'disown' the better of these two
dos based windows OSes. Relying on a proprietry OS leaves you wide
open to such vendor abuse when they feel it's time to move the cattle
to the next meadow.

>
>> I know that winXP now looks bloody marvelous in its 'ease of use'
>>now that we have Vista (and win7) available for comparison but that
>>doesn't really mitigate its festering crapness in my view.
>
>I don't know. The sheer lack of usuability and stunningly bad
>performance of Vista made me feel less antagonistic to XP.

Yes, I must admit that when it comes to fixing a PC with, unusually
these days, winXP rather than Vista or win7 installed, my spirits are
somewhat raised by the prospect (after all, it's not so far removed
from win2k(NT5.0) - just a broken version of it(NT5.1)).

>
>> Win7 (and, probably Vista too) seem to have been designed to distance
>>the 'users' from the basic technology to the point where it has
>>perverted what was, essentially, a general purpose desktop digital
>>computer capable of being a 'Jack of All Trades (one time) Master of
>>None" machine into "A Magic Box" requiring the _purchase_ of "Magic
>>Spells", either online from the e-tailors of "Magic" or in an actual
>>"Magic Store".
>
>Isn't that how most people view computers & software (as magic)?

Yes, that's exactly the problem as I see it. I'm outnumbered by
several orders of magnitude by those who are not only computer
technology illiterate but, more worryingly, are quite content to trust
the patently false claims that MS are doing everything in their power
to look after their best interests.

>
>> With win7, at least, it's gotten to such an extreme that the OS will
>>behave like a wounded animal when its disk drive becomes afflicted
>>with bad sectors, electing to hide its malady behind a mysteriously
>>sluggish response more typical of a very bad malware infestation
>>rather than admit that it isn't, in fact, a "Magic Box" as would
>>happen in win2k (and, even winXP) with a copious supply of error
>>message pop ups under the very same circumstance.
>
>My son has been inflicted with disk problems on his W7 laptop. I
>don't know much about W7 (and I don't really want to). How do you
>monitor disk health on W7?

Not easily. If the system is behaving sluggishly as if it had fallen
victim to a massive malware infestation, yet there is no sign of such
from your AV scans, you could take a look at the event logs and see if
there are any bad blocks errors listed.

Some laptops actually have disk drive diagnostics built into the BIOS
rom so you might be able to access a hardware test menu from the cmos
setup menu or a dedicated hot key during boot up. This is aside from
the troubleshooting options in the advanced startup menu (F8 just
before the starting windows logo appears at boot up time).

A read of the user guide should reveal those options, usually in the
index under 'troubleshooting tips' or what have you. Failing that, you
could always download and burn a UBCD image from which to boot wherein
you'll find various hardware diagnostics options to choose from (the
UBCD iso image can even be written to a USB pen drive which usually
boots faster than an optical disk on those systems that correctly
support boot from usb devices).

>
>> The plain fact is, "The less your customers' know, the more you can
>>milk them for vast profit". It is this thinking that drives any large
>>corporate business with no heed of the greater consequences that often
>>ensue. Don't expect 'computer usability' to improve any time soon with
>>later windows editions.
>
>Quite. I get very frustated with bloody M$ Office which often won't
>display a document created by a slightly different version of the
>*same* software. Open/Libre Office sometimes also suffers but that is
>to be expected.

That, in the whole scheme(scam?) of things, is a very minor issue.
I'm making an educated guess here, but I think what gave MS the
confidence to mess with their customers' heads when they inflicted
Vista (and then win7 and now win8) on them was the fact that over 90%
(perhaps something closer to 99%) of their winXP user base elected to
leave the teletubby desktop settings alone, effectively accepting what
was obviously an insult to their intelligence (lack of).

WinXP's desktop UI was obviously designed with child appeal strongly
in mind since that would be where the next stream of revenue would
ultimately be coming from ("There's one born every minute." applies in
spades here).

[Tired]

Mark wrote:
:: On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:45:31 +0100, Johny B Good

:: <johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
::
::: On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:10:49 +0100, Mark
::: <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:
::::
:::: Windows XP was the last version of Windows I chose to use.
:::: I haven't looked at Windows 8 though. If I wanted a tablet OS I
:::: wouldn't use Windows.
:::
::: Sorry, but despite my lateness to the party, I just had to add my
::: tuppence worth... Windows 2000 was/is the last windows version I
::: chose/choose to use. I have to say, imho & ime, winXP is a festering
::: pile of shite compared to ms's best effort as exemplified by win2k.
:::
::: Although it's possible to configure winXP to look like win2k, the
::: unfortunate lobotomy inflicted on explorer makes the "open each
::: folder in its own window" option an exercise in frustration.
::
:: I agree that WinXP was worse than W2K but I had to 'upgrade' because
:: certain software vendors ensured that their software wouldn't run on
:: 2K.
::

I had a long standing gripe with W2k which made it unsuitable as a mass
market product. Out of the box it lacked any registry backup and recovery
facility.

One corrupt registry = complete reinstall

Registry corruption is common and a recovery of the registry can often be
the only way to get the OS back up and running following a system botch up.

Complete steaming pile of unsuitable shite.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <ac6idi...@mid.individual.net>, Tired <n...@no.com>
escribió:

>I had a long standing gripe with W2k which made it unsuitable as a mass
>market product. Out of the box it lacked any registry backup and recovery
>facility.

ERUNT:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Still useful on XP upward if you don't use System Restore. I have ERUNT
back up the registry at midnight every day.

Comes with an emergency facility, ERDNT, allowing you to restore the
registry of a non-booting system from the Recovery Console.

Recommended.

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:39:24 +0100, Johny B Good

It's not only with proprietory OSs though. It can be a pain
supporting multiple versions of any OS. Although we manage to support
several versions of Linux, Solaris & AIX and we're much smaller than
Microsoft. And I was never that keen on any of the Win9x OSs as none
of them were very stable. However there were few technical reasons
why vendors stopped supporting W2K AFAIK.

--snip--

>>> Win7 (and, probably Vista too) seem to have been designed to distance
>>>the 'users' from the basic technology to the point where it has
>>>perverted what was, essentially, a general purpose desktop digital
>>>computer capable of being a 'Jack of All Trades (one time) Master of
>>>None" machine into "A Magic Box" requiring the _purchase_ of "Magic
>>>Spells", either online from the e-tailors of "Magic" or in an actual
>>>"Magic Store".
>>
>>Isn't that how most people view computers & software (as magic)?
>
> Yes, that's exactly the problem as I see it. I'm outnumbered by
>several orders of magnitude by those who are not only computer
>technology illiterate but, more worryingly, are quite content to trust
>the patently false claims that MS are doing everything in their power
>to look after their best interests.

For most people computers 'are' Microsoft. Few know there are any
alternatives. And those who do think they need Microsoft because
'everybody' uses it. TBH a PC isn't really a true consumer product
IMHO. They are too complex and hard to look after for most.

>>> With win7, at least, it's gotten to such an extreme that the OS will
>>>behave like a wounded animal when its disk drive becomes afflicted
>>>with bad sectors, electing to hide its malady behind a mysteriously
>>>sluggish response more typical of a very bad malware infestation
>>>rather than admit that it isn't, in fact, a "Magic Box" as would
>>>happen in win2k (and, even winXP) with a copious supply of error
>>>message pop ups under the very same circumstance.
>>
>>My son has been inflicted with disk problems on his W7 laptop. I
>>don't know much about W7 (and I don't really want to). How do you
>>monitor disk health on W7?
>
> Not easily. If the system is behaving sluggishly as if it had fallen
>victim to a massive malware infestation, yet there is no sign of such
>from your AV scans, you could take a look at the event logs and see if
>there are any bad blocks errors listed.

General performance was OK and there is nothing in the event log but,
when doing a backup, it failed (with predictably cryptic error
message). Eventually a chkdsk found an error in the system disk (and
fixed it). I am concerned it's a sign of future problems though.

> Some laptops actually have disk drive diagnostics built into the BIOS
>rom so you might be able to access a hardware test menu from the cmos
>setup menu or a dedicated hot key during boot up.

I didn't know this. I'll suggest he looks into it. I did tell him to
download and run the manufacturer's diagnostic tool but I doubt he'll
bother.

>A read of the user guide should reveal those options, usually in the
>index under 'troubleshooting tips' or what have you.

"User guide" LOL! IIRC The user guide is a small booklet telling you
how to connect up the power cable and health and safefy instructions
in 8 languages. There's nothing useful in it.

--snip--

[Rob Morley]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:12:28 +0100
Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote:

> "User guide" LOL! IIRC The user guide is a small booklet telling you
> how to connect up the power cable and health and safefy instructions
> in 8 languages. There's nothing useful in it.

That's the "getting started" guide - there's usually something a bit
more useful on the hard drive.

[Tired]

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
:: En el artículo <ac6idi...@mid.individual.net>, Tired <n...@no.com>

Not out of the box though, which means the first time you need it, you are
up shit creek.

[Michael Chare]

On 21/09/2012 09:05, Mark wrote:
>
> My son has been inflicted with disk problems on his W7 laptop. I
> don't know much about W7 (and I don't really want to). How do you
> monitor disk health on W7?
>

Boot the PC using the disk manufacturers diagnostic routines.

I have just had a disk from my NAS replaced by Seagate under 3 year
warranty because the Seagate diagnostics said the disk was faulty -
though it did still work to the extent that I did not lose any data. The
Netgear NAS alerted me to the fault.


--
Michael Chare

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el art�culo <aco16g...@mid.individual.net>, Tired <n...@no.com>
escribi�:

>Not out of the box though, which means the first time you need it, you are
>up shit creek.

True. It's got me out of the mierda a couple times, though, and you
can't argue with the price.

[ackooij]

lol :) user guides are nice if you want to learn foreign languages

martijn

[Nick Le Lievre]

>"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message news:k25oo3$7l7$1...@news.albasani.net...
>Just cancelled due to the fact this upgrade will be offered as a download
>from Microsoft for just £ 24.99 at that price I can afford to upgrade both
>my machines.

Just sold my spare 21.5" BenQ 1920*1080 DSUB & DVI Monitor for £ 40 it cost
me £ 77 ex VAT just under a year ago and new ones start from about £ 67 ex
VAT now, I wanted £ 50 but got talked down to £ 40. That will pay for my
Windows 8 download @ £ 25 and renewing my provisional driving licence for £
15.

[ackooij]

:) nice deal

martijn


van Op maandag 15 oktober 2012 21:25:00 UTC+2 schreef Nick Le Lievre het volgende:

[Nick Le Lievre]

> >"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message news:k25oo3$7l7$1...@news.albasani.net...
>

> Just sold my spare 21.5" BenQ 1920*1080 DSUB & DVI Monitor for £ 40 it
> cost
>
> me £ 77 ex VAT just under a year ago and new ones start from about £ 67 ex
>
> VAT now, I wanted £ 50 but got talked down to £ 40. That will pay for my
>
> Windows 8 download @ £ 25 and renewing my provisional driving licence for
> £ 15

>"ackooij" wrote in message
>news:59a889f5-379b-43b5...@googlegroups.com...
>
>:) nice deal
>
>martijn

Confirmation that as from 26th October will be able to download Windows 8
for £ 24.99
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/productID.257641900

I'm in!