3.5in floppy drives advice please

[Hugh Newbury]

(At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
floppy, like the 5in ones were.

I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
to the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
easiest way to destroy them?

I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
the internet to do that.

So should I just take a hammer to each one? I could do a few each day, I
suppose.

Any better suggestions welcome.

TIA

Hugh

--

Hugh Newbury

www.evershot-weather.org

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:52:39 +0100, Hugh Newbury
<hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:

>I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them,

If they were written using DOS or Windows, XP certainly should be able
to read them. If it can't, they've either all bitrotted away or your
floppy drive isn't working.

If you want to destroy them, use tin snips or bolt cutters to slice
them up - cut across above the metal central disk, opposite the slide
- there are no metal bits up there.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Note that despite substantial evidence to the contrary, it is in fact possible
to delete files copied to the desktop, and you don't need to throw away the
computer and get a new one once the desktop is full. -- Peter Corlett, ASR

[GB]

Well, Win XP will definitely read them, so maybe there's something wrong
with your setup?

There are number of ways to destroy the contents. You can shred them,
plastic case, metal bits, and all. That is totally secure. A bulk eraser
(big electromagnet) should do the job, but I would want to do quality
control by trying to read them afterwards. As you cannot do that, any
physical destruction of the discs should do the job.

[Daniel James]

In article <a52rbo...@mid.individual.net>, Hugh Newbury wrote:
> subject: 3.5in floppy drives advice please
[snip]

> (At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
> floppy, like the 5in ones were.

FWIW: It's generally a good idea /not/ to hide half the question in the
subject line. You'd be amazed how many people don't read them.

The *disk* is floppy, but it's held in a rigid plastic envelope. When they
were first introduced on the American market they were, for a while, known
as "stiffies" ...

> I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
> to the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
> easiest way to destroy them?

MS (or rather their software) was never "the only OS around" ... certainly
not by the time 3.5" floppies arrived. They were used on the Mac before the
PC!

(But I recognize your tendency to use exaggeration as a rhetorical device.)

> I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
> the internet to do that.

If these are MS-DOS floppies from a normal PC then XP should be able to
read them without any trouble, and without any additional software. Some
machines (Macs, I think, and maybe some non-IBM-compatible PC models) used
non-standard formatting (different read speeds and numbers of sectors on
different tracks, that sort of thing) so their disks won't be readable.

> So should I just take a hammer to each one? I could do a few each day, I
> suppose.

You should be able to /format/ the disks in a PC, even if you can't read
them ... unless your floppy disk drive is dead. A hammer would probably be
quicker, though.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Rob Morley]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:45:08 +0100
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:52:39 +0100, Hugh Newbury
> <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:
>
> >I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them,
>
> If they were written using DOS or Windows, XP certainly should be able
> to read them. If it can't, they've either all bitrotted away or your
> floppy drive isn't working.
>
> If you want to destroy them, use tin snips or bolt cutters to slice
> them up - cut across above the metal central disk, opposite the slide
> - there are no metal bits up there.
>

I'd have thought tin snips would go right through the middle anyway.
IIRC then just twisting the case this way and that a few times
liberates the floppy inside, which can then be crumpled up.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:54:35 +0100, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com>

wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:45:08 +0100
>Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:52:39 +0100, Hugh Newbury
>> <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them,
>>
>> If they were written using DOS or Windows, XP certainly should be able
>> to read them. If it can't, they've either all bitrotted away or your
>> floppy drive isn't working.
>>
>> If you want to destroy them, use tin snips or bolt cutters to slice
>> them up - cut across above the metal central disk, opposite the slide
>> - there are no metal bits up there.
>>
>I'd have thought tin snips would go right through the middle anyway.
>IIRC then just twisting the case this way and that a few times
>liberates the floppy inside, which can then be crumpled up.

Inded they would - but when you've got 500 million of them to trash,
the easier the cut is the better! I'm thinking of the poor chap's
hands.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

[Ian Field]

"GB" <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4fec44aa$0$10737$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...

> On 28/06/2012 11:52, Hugh Newbury wrote:
>> (At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
>> floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>>
>> I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
>> to the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
>> easiest way to destroy them?
>>
>> I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
>> the internet to do that.
>>
>> So should I just take a hammer to each one? I could do a few each day, I
>> suppose.
>>
>> Any better suggestions welcome.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>
>
> Well, Win XP will definitely read them, so maybe there's something wrong
> with your setup?
>
> There are number of ways to destroy the contents. You can shred them,
> plastic case, metal bits, and all. That is totally secure. A bulk eraser
> (big electromagnet)

If your wriswatch isn't 100% digital, it might be best to take it off and
leave it somewhere away from the big electromagnet.

[Ian Field]

"Hugh Newbury" <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote in message
news:a52rbo...@mid.individual.net...

Chuck them in a bucket and pour cellulose paint thinners over them - it'll
literally wash away the magnetic coating on the disk surfaces, it will also
disolve the plastic jackets, so when the solvent evaporates and the disolved
plastic re-solidifies - the disks won't fit in a drive anymore.

[Hugh Newbury]

On 28/06/12 14:54, Rob Morley wrote:

...

>> If you want to destroy them, use tin snips or bolt cutters to slice
>> them up - cut across above the metal central disk, opposite the slide
>> - there are no metal bits up there.
>>
> I'd have thought tin snips would go right through the middle anyway.
> IIRC then just twisting the case this way and that a few times
> liberates the floppy inside, which can then be crumpled up.

Gosh, that *really* works -- and easily! Marvellous, Rob. Thanks.

[GB]

If you really have lots of these to do, you could stack them up then
drill through the stack a few times in different places. That would only
take a few seconds to do say 30 disks at a time. In theory, this could
leave some data recoverable with a great deal of difficulty. In
practice, unless you are very, very paranoid the risk is negligible.

[Borg]

who the hell is going to bother going through them anyway

[Gordon]

On 2012-06-28, Hugh Newbury <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:
> (At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
> floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>
> I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
> to the days when MS was the only OS around.

History here, may we have a wee chat?

[David WE Roberts]

"Hugh Newbury" <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote in message
news:a52rbo...@mid.individual.net...

> (At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
> floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>
> I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back to
> the days when MS was the only OS around.

<snip>

Can I refer the Honourable Member to Digital Research?
Who were widely expected to supply the O/S for the original IMB PC but were
edged out by M$ which IMHO set operating systems on PCs back by about 5-10
years.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[David WE Roberts]

"Hugh Newbury" <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote in message
news:a52rbo...@mid.individual.net...

> (At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
> floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>
> I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back to
> the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
> easiest way to destroy them?
>
> I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
> the internet to do that.

Oh, tried Linux variants to analysed the disc format?
There were various versions of Unix (including Xenix) around on PC platforms
at the same time as 3.5" floppies.
IIRC there were also floppy drives in non-PC kit like AS400s and Unix
workstations such as Sun so there are loads of possibilities.
Probably all the way up to IBM mainframes, back where they were a common
item used for data exchange.

You haven't mentioned what the labels (if any) on the floppies say - that
might give a clue to their origins.

[Daniel James]

In article <04eru7dods84mb1ut...@4ax.com>, Martin wrote:
>> MS (or rather their software) was never "the only OS around" ...
>> certainly not by the time 3.5" floppies arrived. They were used on the
>> Mac before the PC!
>

> They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
> or the PC.

We are talking specifically about 3.5" floppies, here ... and I never saw
one of those until I saw an early Mac in 1984. Wikipedia gives the date of
first use of single-sided 3.5" as 1982, double-sided in 1983.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk

> Intel had a real OS for PCs before DOS.

That depends what you mean by "PC" ... and what you mean by "real". There
were several OSes for desktop microcomputers of various kinds before the
(IBM) PC.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Bob Martin]

in 218821 20120629 151736 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
>or the PC.

>Intel had a real OS for PCs before DOS.

Floppy disks (the first were 8 inch) were first used in 1970 by IBM to provide
microcode for the new 360 series.
I helped program the first writer.
The prototype writer "vanished" in transit between Poughkeepsie and Kingston.

[Bob Martin]

in 218822 20120629 160231 Daniel James <dan...@me.invalid> wrote:
>In article <04eru7dods84mb1ut...@4ax.com>, Martin wrote:
>>> MS (or rather their software) was never "the only OS around" ...
>>> certainly not by the time 3.5" floppies arrived. They were used on the
>>> Mac before the PC!
>>
>> They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
>> or the PC.
>
>We are talking specifically about 3.5" floppies, here ... and I never saw
>one of those until I saw an early Mac in 1984. Wikipedia gives the date of
>first use of single-sided 3.5" as 1982, double-sided in 1983.

The ACT Apricot came out in 1983 and had 3.5" floppies.
They cost £70 for a box of 10 in Dixons.

[Daniel James]

In article <a57mfn...@mid.individual.net>, Bob Martin wrote:
> The ACT Apricot came out in 1983 and had 3.5" floppies.

I stand corrected -- I didn't remember the Apricot appearing quite so
early. I must have I seen an Apricot before I first saw a Mac. We're
still talking about the same timeframe for 3.5" disks, though.

I recall the date on which I first saw a Mac quite clearly because that
was at a conference I attended in the US in February 1984.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Daniel James]

In article <moetu7h3hd73isujg...@4ax.com>, Martin wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:02:31 +0100, Daniel James <dan...@me.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <04eru7dods84mb1ut...@4ax.com>, Martin wrote:
>>>> MS (or rather their software) was never "the only OS around" ...
>>>> certainly not by the time 3.5" floppies arrived. They were used on the
>>>> Mac before the PC!
>>>
>>> They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
>>> or the PC.
>>
>>We are talking specifically about 3.5" floppies, here ...
>

> I was talking about OS.

Oh ... I rather thought that the existence of OSes in other computer systems
was a wee bit too obvious to be worth mentioning ... but perhaps it isn't?
The OS has its origins in things like the Supervisor program from the Atlas
in Manchester, and that is as recent at the early 1960s (a couple of years
before OS 360). It's a sobering thought that the whole concept of and
Operating System is only about 50 years old.

Anyhow, *I* was talking about diskettes, ans assumed that you were, too.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Bob Martin]

in 218829 20120630 094447 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:57:05 BST, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>
>wrote:

>
>>in 218821 20120629 151736 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
>>>or the PC.
>>>Intel had a real OS for PCs before DOS.
>>
>>Floppy disks (the first were 8 inch) were first used in 1970 by IBM to provide
>>microcode for the new 360 series.
>

>Agreed I referred to OSs existing before microcomputers. OS 360 was
>new around 1965. Yo meant a new new 360 :-)

Yes, you're right, of course. I meant 370. 360 used ROS for microcode.

>
>>I helped program the first writer.
>>The prototype writer "vanished" in transit between Poughkeepsie and Kingston.
>

>on Thames or Jamaica?

NY, an hour up the thruway.

[Bob Martin]

in 218843 20120701 092736 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:02:05 BST, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>

>wrote:
>
>>in 218829 20120630 094447 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:57:05 BST, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>in 218821 20120629 151736 Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>They had been used for at least 15 years in computers before the Mac
>>>>>or the PC.
>>>>>Intel had a real OS for PCs before DOS.
>>>>
>>>>Floppy disks (the first were 8 inch) were first used in 1970 by IBM to provide
>>>>microcode for the new 360 series.
>>>
>>>Agreed I referred to OSs existing before microcomputers. OS 360 was
>>>new around 1965. Yo meant a new new 360 :-)
>>
>>Yes, you're right, of course. I meant 370. 360 used ROS for microcode.
>

>I did an OS360 course in January 1969.

I was at the 360 announcement in 1964 and on an OS360 internals course in 1966.

>
>There are people who believe that before the PC DOS there was nothing.
>Honeywell mini computers had MOS TOS and DOS at the beginning of the
>1970s.

>>>
>>>>I helped program the first writer.
>>>>The prototype writer "vanished" in transit between Poughkeepsie and Kingston.
>>>
>>>on Thames or Jamaica?
>>
>>NY, an hour up the thruway.

>--
>
>Martin

[Daniel James]

In article <e5utu755df0d2rida...@4ax.com>, Martin wrote:
>> The OS has its origins in things like the Supervisor program from the
>> Atlas in Manchester, and that is as recent at the early 1960s (a couple
>> of years before OS 360). It's a sobering thought that the whole concept
>> of and Operating System is only about 50 years old.
>

> IBM360 was launched in 1964.

That'd be about right, yes ... and the Atlas Supervisor dates from around
1962.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Computer_%28Manchester%29

> >Anyhow, *I* was talking about diskettes, ans assumed that you were, too.
>

> I replied to

>
> >>>>> MS (or rather their
> software) was never "the only OS around" ...
> >>>>> certainly not by the
> time 3.5" floppies arrived. They were used on the
> >>>>> Mac before the PC!
>

> The subject of the sentence was OS.

If we consider the (slightly simplified) passage:

MS was never the only OS around, certainly not by the time
3.5" floppies arrived.

It's clear that we're talking about two things: "MS's OS" (singular) and
'3.5" floppies' (plural). When the next sentence is:

They were used on the Mac before the PC!

it's pretty clear that we're now talking about the (plural) floppies and not
the (singular) OS ... especially as it would have been untrue to assert that
the Mac had an OS before the PC (even if you don't consider the likes of DOS
or CP/M-86 to be OSes).

.. and, of course, the subject of the thread is "3.5in floppy drives advice
please".

> Never mind :-)

I don't. Sorry if I contributed to the confusion in any way.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Mark]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:52:39 +0100, Hugh Newbury
<hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:

>(At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
>floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>
>I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
>to the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
>easiest way to destroy them?
>
>I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
>the internet to do that.
>

>So should I just take a hammer to each one? I could do a few each day, I
>suppose.
>
>Any better suggestions welcome.

Just chuck 'em in the bin.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

[Ian Field]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote in message
news:nv08v7t8t42uhng58...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:52:39 +0100, Hugh Newbury
> <hu...@hnewbury.uklinux.net> wrote:
>
>>(At least that's what I think they were called!) They aren't actually
>>floppy, like the 5in ones were.
>>
>>I find I've got about 500 million of them (or lots anyway) dating back
>>to the days when MS was the only OS around. What is the best, quickest,
>>easiest way to destroy them?
>>
>>I've no idea what is on them: MS XP can't read them, nor find an app on
>>the internet to do that.
>>
>>So should I just take a hammer to each one? I could do a few each day, I
>>suppose.
>>
>>Any better suggestions welcome.
>
> Just chuck 'em in the bin.

Must be somewhere in the region of 4 - 5 yrs since I used the floppy drive
for anything - AFAIK most modern PCs are built without the drive.

Floppies occasionally get offered (for free) on freecycle & freegle.