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From: Ken MacKenzie <kmacken...@udfcd.org>
References: <90AA6C09DD158E4E85838D7458130CE513C494@archer-dc1.davidearcher.com>
In-Reply-To: <90AA6C09DD158E4E85838D7458130CE513C494@archer-dc1.davidearcher.com>
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:36:00 -0600
Message-ID: <44fca0f5faa69e4e944f65eb887fde48@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [UDFCD-support]
To: udfcd-support@googlegroups.com
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Jayson, welcome to the forum.
Please go to http://www.udfcd.org/downloads/down_sw_bmp.htm and read the pd=
f
titled =93UDFCD orifice sizing
memorandum<http://www.udfcd.org/downloads/pdf/tech_papers/UDFCD%20orifice%2=
0sizing%20memorandum.pdf>
=94.
The *UD-BMP* workbook is correct, but the *UD-Detention* workbook has not
been updated yet. Also the Storage chapter in Volume 2 of the USDCM is
undergoing an update now - the new version will have the correct equation
but the current one does not.
The new equation should get you much closer to the desired drain time than
either of the two previous equations did, but I still recommend a reservoir
routing when possible to fine-tune the orifice sizing.
-Ken
Ken A. MacKenzie, P.E., CFM
Manager, Master Planning Program
Urban Drainage and Flood Control District
*From:* udfcd-support@googlegroups.com [mailto:
udfcd-support@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jayson Teno
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:40 PM
*To:* udfcd-support@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* [UDFCD-support]
Hello All,
The UDFCD Manual Volume 2 Section 3.2.4 for Simplified Full Spectrum
Detention Sizing (EURV Flow Control) states that the formula in figure
SO-13a (eq13a) should be used to determine the area per row Ao, of the
perforated plate and one should seek a drill bit size that will deliver an
area within +5% and -10% of this area. Given this, can anyone explain the
formulas used to determine of the recommended outlet area per row ( Ao )
for an EURV outlet structure as calculated by the UD Detention excel
workbook (WQCV worksheet) for an EURV 72 hr release, and the UD-BMP V3.01
excel workbook (EDB worksheet) for an EURV method.
I have received different resulting values for Ao for the same input
parameters between the two workbooks.
Also, I noticed that the Micropool and Outlet Structure (part 7) of the
UD-BMP workbook EDB worksheet is somehow tied to the trickle channel sectio=
n
(part 6)
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Jayson Teno
*David E. Archer & Associates Inc.*
*105 Wilcox St.*
*Castle Rock, CO 80104*
*P: 303-688-4642*
*F: 303-688-4675*
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--></style></head><body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"tab-interval:.5in"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;m=
so-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">=A0</span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">Jayson, welcome to the forum.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;=
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">=A0</span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">Please go to <a href=3D"http://www.udfcd.org/downloads/down_sw_=
bmp.htm">http://www.udfcd.org/downloads/down_sw_bmp.htm</a> and read the pd=
f titled =93</span><a href=3D"http://www.udfcd.org/downloads/pdf/tech_paper=
s/UDFCD%20orifice%20sizing%20memorandum.pdf" target=3D"_blank">UDFCD orific=
e sizing memorandum</a><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">=94.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-f=
ont-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"=
;Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">The <i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:n=
ormal">UD-BMP</i> workbook is correct, but the <i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-st=
yle:normal">UD-Detention</i> workbook has not been updated yet.<span style=
=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">=A0 </span>Also the Storage chapter in Volume 2 of th=
e USDCM is undergoing an update now - the new version will have the correct=
equation but the current one does not.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-f=
ont-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"=
;Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">The new equation should get you much =
closer to the desired drain time than either of the two previous equations =
did, but I still recommend a reservoir routing when possible to fine-tune t=
he orifice sizing.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";col=
or:#1F497D">=A0</span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-as=
cii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">-Ken</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-far=
east-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;=
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof=
:yes">Ken A. MacKenzie, P.E., CFM<br>
Manager, Master Planning Program</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New=
Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times=
New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">Urban Drainage and Flood C=
ontrol District</span></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;m=
so-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D">=A0</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:s=
olid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times Ne=
w Roman"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Tim=
es New Roman""> <a href=3D"mailto:udfcd-support@googlegroups.com">udfc=
d-support@googlegroups.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:udfcd-support@goog=
legroups.com">udfcd-support@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jayso=
n Teno<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:udfcd-support@googlegroups.com">udfcd-support@googlegroups.com</a><br>=
<b>Subject:</b> [UDFCD-support] </span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">
=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello All,</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The UDFC=
D Manual Volume 2 Section 3.2.4 for Simplified Full Spectrum Detention Sizi=
ng (EURV Flow Control) states that the formula in figure SO-13a (eq13a) sho=
uld be used to determine the area per row Ao, of the perforated plate and o=
ne should seek a drill bit size that will deliver an area within +5% and -1=
0% of this area.=A0 Given this, can anyone explain the formulas used to det=
ermine of the recommended outlet area per row ( Ao =A0) for an EURV outlet =
structure as calculated by the UD Detention excel workbook =A0(WQCV workshe=
et) for an EURV 72 hr release, and the UD-BMP V3.01 excel workbook (EDB wor=
ksheet) for an EURV method.=A0 </p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have received differ=
ent resulting values for Ao for the same input parameters between the two w=
orkbooks.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, I n=
oticed that the Micropool and Outlet Structure (part 7) of the UD-BMP workb=
ook EDB worksheet is somehow tied to the trickle channel section (part 6)</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any information would =
be greatly appreciated.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"">Jayson Teno</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54">David E. Archer & =
Associates Inc.</span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"=
font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#948A54">105 Wilcox St.</span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54">Castle Rock, CO 80104</sp=
an></i></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54">P: 303-688-464=
2</span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54">F: 303-688-4675</span></i=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";ms=
o-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;UDFCD Computational Tools and USDCM Support" group.<br>To post to=
this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:udfcd-support@googlegroups.com=
">udfcd-support@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:udfcd-suppo=
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