Carrollton
Jim Nicholson
Council -- posted in reverse order with first message being at the bottom. We
need a few similar letters to let the Council know that they have wounded the
Second Amendment. The writer gave permission to post as long as I blocked his
e-mail address.
Subject: Re: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
From: xxx@xxx
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:07:47 -0600
To: "Becky Miller" <Becky....@cityofcarrollton.com>
CC: <tsrapac-a...@yahoogroups.com>
Excuse me, but I did read the ordinance. Perhaps it is you who should read
your own words.
The ordinance states, and I quote from the ordinance, "Prohibits display of
firearm in any manner that causes alarm or reaction of any type by a public
safety official." So, as I said in my initial note, "Any anti-gun nutcase
'official' WILL react to any display of any weapon
or facsimile." If an elected or appointed anti-gun public safety official
sees any type of weapon or facsimile, that weapon or facsimile will
immediately be found to violate this new ordinance.
ALL guns, facsimile weapons, bows and arrows, sling shots look like real
weapons. A BB-gun looks like a real weapon. That's because it is a real
weapon. So what are you going to do, drag every 8-year old Cub Scout into
court because he's taking his BB-gun to a Scouting event? Are you going to
start writing citations to every 3-year old that playing cowboys and Indians
or cops and robbers?
We've got idiotic school administrators suspending first and second grade
students because they hold up their index finger and say 'Bang' on the
playground. And that's where this ridiculous ordinance will lead us.
Go arrest the people that are doing harm and breaking the law. Stop passing
new laws that make criminals out of law abiding citizens.
Neil in
Carrollton, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky Miller" <Becky....@cityofcarrollton.com>
To: xxx@xxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
> If you will read the ordinance, you will see that it doesn't make it
illegal
> of kids to play with play guns. This deals with facsimilies that look and
> feel just like a real gun. We have gang members using them to threaten
> people, and other crimes being committed with them. The issue is that our
> officers cannot tell the difference between a real gun and these guns, and
> they don't want to shoot someone who doesn't have a real gun.
>
> Becky Miller
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx
> To: Mark Stokes Outside Mail; Tim Hayden; Becky Miller; Matthew Marchant;
> Terry Simons; Larry Williams; Ron Branson; Herb Weidinger
> Cc: tsrapac-a...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 11/20/02 12:31 PM
> Subject: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
>
> Once again, the nuts are in charge of the asylum.
>
> So you're going to arrest a 3 year old for playing with a cap gun. Or a
> Boy Scout carrying a BB-gun who's on his way to a campout. Or a gun
> collector who leaves the curtains in his living room open.
>
> Any anti-gun nutcase 'official' WILL react to any display of any weapon
> or facsimile. And you're giving him the sole determination as to whether
> or not the 3-year old, or the Boy Scout of the collector are in
> violation of this new, ill-conceived, vague law.
>
> Get real. It's time to stop punishing the innocent. Let's go after the
> criminals when a crime is committed and leave the rest of us alone. Quit
> criminalizing the legitimate use of firearms, BB-guns, slingshots, bows
> and arrows and facsimiles.
>
> You are grossly over reacting. Stop the nonsense now.
>
>
> Neil in
> Carrollton, TX
Mark Stokes, Mayor
Phone: (H) 972-394-8397; (VM) 972-466-3098
E-mail: mark....@cityofcarrollton.com
Tim Hayden, Council Member
Place 1, NORTHEAST
Phone: (VM) 972-466-3099; (H) 972-394-1633
E-mail: tim.h...@cityofcarrollton.com
Becky Miller, Council Member
Place 2, AT-LARGE
Phone: (VM) 972-466-3101; (H) 972-418-6391
E-mail: becky....@cityofcarrollton.com
Matthew Marchant, Council Member
Place 3, SOUTHWEST
Phone: (VM) 972-466-3166
E-mail: matthew....@cityofcarrollton.com
Terry Simons, Council Member
Place 4, AT-LARGE
Phone: (VM) 972-466-3174
E-mail: terry....@cityofcarrollton.com
Larry Williams, Council Member
Place 5, NORTHWEST
Phone: (VM) 972-466-3270; (Mobile) 972-816-4920
E-mail: larry.w...@cityofcarrollton.com
Ron Branson, Council Member
Place 6, AT-LARGE
Phone: (H) 972-939-1013; (VM) 972-466-3319
E-mail: ron.b...@cityofcarrollton.com
Herb Weidinger, Mayor Pro Tem
Place 7 SOUTHEAST
Phone: (H) 972-416-6178; (Mobile) 972-571-7045
E-mail: herb.we...@cityofcarrollton.com
Trenton G. Twining
>
> This is an exchange between a Carrollton resident/TSRA member and the City
> Council -- posted in reverse order with first message being at the bottom. We
> need a few similar letters to let the Council know that they have wounded the
> Second Amendment. The writer gave permission to post as long as I blocked his
> e-mail address.
>
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
Since this ordinance is in violation of the state preemption law;
wouldn't enforcing it be official oppression?
If that's correct, or even a plausible argument, I'd think getting that
idea into the heads or Carrollton officials from Mayor to the police
officers would make the whole thing a dead letter. Granted these things
very rarely come to criminal trial. But elected officials wouldn't like
the voters being reminded who it was that saddled the city with a big
civil rights lawsuit and the police probably wouldn't trust the city to
pay for their defense and possible damages in such a case. The official
oppression criminal aspect I'd think would lend weight to such a suit.
The whole thing is so clearly kneejerk/stupid that the public is going
to have very little sympathy for the city council on this.
--
Trenton G. Twining
"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry."
- Mark Twain "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"
John A. Stovall
wrote:
>Jim Nicholson wrote:
>>
>> This is an exchange between a Carrollton resident/TSRA member and the City
>> Council -- posted in reverse order with first message being at the bottom. We
>> need a few similar letters to let the Council know that they have wounded the
>> Second Amendment. The writer gave permission to post as long as I blocked his
>> e-mail address.
>>
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
><SNIP>
>Since this ordinance is in violation of the state preemption law;
>wouldn't enforcing it be official oppression?
>
>If that's correct, or even a plausible argument, I'd think getting that
>idea into the heads or Carrollton officials from Mayor to the police
>officers would make the whole thing a dead letter. Granted these things
No, that is not enough. It's time these nitwit things are publicly
repealed with just as much fanfare as they are passed.
>very rarely come to criminal trial. But elected officials wouldn't like
>the voters being reminded who it was that saddled the city with a big
>civil rights lawsuit and the police probably wouldn't trust the city to
>pay for their defense and possible damages in such a case. The official
>oppression criminal aspect I'd think would lend weight to such a suit.
>The whole thing is so clearly kneejerk/stupid that the public is going
>to have very little sympathy for the city council on this.
I'll make you a little bet this will not be a campaign issues when
they run again. They won't brag about passing it and their opponents
won't attack them on it but the law will stay there.
*****************************************************
"Now we are governed in some way, buy the dregs.
We are governed by what you find in the bottom
dead beer glasses that whores have dunked their
cigarettes in."
"Across the River and Into the Trees"
Ernest Hemingway, 1950
Trenton G. Twining
>
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:07:50 -0600, "Trenton G. Twining" <t...@usa.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Jim Nicholson wrote:
> >>
> >> This is an exchange between a Carrollton resident/TSRA member and the City
> >> Council -- posted in reverse order with first message being at the bottom. We
> >> need a few similar letters to let the Council know that they have wounded the
> >> Second Amendment. The writer gave permission to post as long as I blocked his
> >> e-mail address.
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO CITY ORDINANCE 130.11
> ><SNIP>
> >Since this ordinance is in violation of the state preemption law;
> >wouldn't enforcing it be official oppression?
> >
> >If that's correct, or even a plausible argument, I'd think getting that
> >idea into the heads or Carrollton officials from Mayor to the police
> >officers would make the whole thing a dead letter. Granted these things
>
> No, that is not enough. It's time these nitwit things are publicly
> repealed with just as much fanfare as they are passed.
>
following the recall elections of all those who voted for it.
Unenforcable "laws" on the books breed disrespect for other law too.
But after a few times when the police refuse to dismantle the Wal-Mart
G.I. Joe display, you're already at selective enforcement - and out it
goes as far as being used to charge anybody.
> >very rarely come to criminal trial. But elected officials wouldn't like
> >the voters being reminded who it was that saddled the city with a big
> >civil rights lawsuit and the police probably wouldn't trust the city to
> >pay for their defense and possible damages in such a case. The official
> >oppression criminal aspect I'd think would lend weight to such a suit.
> >The whole thing is so clearly kneejerk/stupid that the public is going
> >to have very little sympathy for the city council on this.
>
> I'll make you a little bet this will not be a campaign issues when
> they run again. They won't brag about passing it and their opponents
> won't attack them on it but the law will stay there.
>
Hmmm, I'm not the gambling type ... or rather I'm afraid that I am so I
don't. I don't know Carrollton well enough to be confident. But even
in Austin, variously: "Moscow on the Colorado" and "San Fransisco, TX",
an ordinance that outlawed plastic toy guns or much other of the
nonsense in that one would smear the city council with thick beauty
masks of egg. Is Carrollton really that bad?
--
Trenton G. Twining
"For want of a Nail the Shoe is lost; for want of a Shoe, the
Horse is lost; for want of a Horse the Rider is lost."
- Poor Richard