Draft: Twitter Rules for API Use
Marcel Molina
posted a draft of the Twitter API rules at
http://twitter.com/apirules. As the subject states, these rules are a
work in progress and feedback is welcome. Please read the TOS
announcement at http://bit.ly/2ZXsyW for some background. We encourage
you to use the "contact us" link at http://twitter.com/apirules with
any feedback you may have.
--
Marcel Molina
Twitter Platform Team
http://twitter.com/noradio
Dewald Pretorius
would cause a blacklisting of the app.
No problems with what is in the draft at present.
Dewald
Dean Collins
current API rules.
Sorry if I sound 'overtly suspicious' but as you can imagine I'm a
little wary of anything that twitter inc says at the moment and would
like to have all of the rules in a single location as it causes
confusion for developers and twitter alike (oh and twitters lawyers as
well .....).
Regards,
Dean Collins
de...@MyTwitterButler.com
Dewald Pretorius
That's basically what I meant. We know those are not the only rules,
so the other rules should also in the draft, shouldn't they?
Dewald
On Sep 10, 9:50 pm, "Dean Collins" <D...@cognation.net> wrote:
> No offence but can you please post these 'draft' rules along with the
> current API rules.
>
> Sorry if I sound 'overtly suspicious' but as you can imagine I'm a
> little wary of anything that twitter inc says at the moment and would
> like to have all of the rules in a single location as it causes
> confusion for developers and twitter alike (oh and twitters lawyers as
> well .....).
>
> Regards,
> Dean Collins
> -----Original Message-----
> From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcel
> Molina
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:58 PM
> To: twitter-ap...@googlegroups.com;
> twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [twitter-dev] Draft: Twitter Rules for API Use
>
> To accompany our updated Terms of Service (http://bit.ly/2ZXsyW) we've
Jesse Stay
Jesse
Dean Collins
Yep exactly – having ALL of the rules clearly spelled out will save confusion.
It's probably an automatic suspension because the twittersphere went crazy today talking about the Titans V's Steelers game tonight but my @LiveNFLchat twitter account has been suspended this afternoon even though I followed all of the Twitter API rules for 24 hour follow limits.
Like I said it’s probably an automated suspension but it’s hard not to feel that someone singled this account out because of my use of MyTwitterButler for the first time in 2 weeks.
I’m holding off raising hell with the press and going public for 24 hours and hopefully someone at twitter re-activates the account but this yet another example of why twitter needs to implement commercial high volume accounts asap.
Regards,
Dean Collins
Live Chat Concepts Inc
De...@LiveChatConcepts.com
+1-212-203-4357 New
York
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
Dewald Pretorius
I know where you are heading with this. ;-)
If a user explicitly activates a feature in an app that sends DMs on
their behalf, they at that point explicitly grants the app permission
to do so.
Dewald
On Sep 10, 10:10 pm, Jesse Stay <jesses...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is great news! Regarding "sending Tweets on a user's behalf", does
> that refer to DMs as well, and when seeking permission, must it be on a
> "tweet-by-tweet" basis, or can a user give you permission beforehand to have
> complete control over Tweeting on their behalf? I'd like to see that part
> clarified more.
> Thanks,
>
> Jesse
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Marcel Molina <mar...@twitter.com> wrote:
>
> > To accompany our updated Terms of Service (http://bit.ly/2ZXsyW) we've
> > posted a draft of the Twitter API rules at
> >http://twitter.com/apirules. As the subject states, these rules are a
> > work in progress and feedback is welcome. Please read the TOS
Jesse Stay
Dewald Pretorius
I apologize. Then I made incorrect assumptions. I thought you saw it
as the potential Excalibur in the fight against auto-DMs.
In my case, not only does the user activate the feature, he also
provides the exact text that must be sent. Not only is that express
consent, it is express instruction.
Dewald
PJB
This document needs further detail, specifics, and allowances.
1. "Identify the user that authored or provided the Tweet"
What do you mean by this? Presumably the author of the tweet is the
person for whom the tweet appears on Twitter.com and who therefore
actually made the tweet or authorized it, right? Isn't that
sufficient?
Or do you mean, say, that all those "vampire bite" tweets must
identify that they come from vampiresRus.com (or wherever) IN THE
TWEET ITSELF? Does a source parameter count as identification, or
must the tweet itself contain separate identification along with the
content of the tweet?
2. "Maintain the integrity of Tweets and not edit or revise them."
Wait, we can edit tweets?!
I think you need to be more precise with your language and definitions
here. In my mind, a "tweet" is something that appears on Twitter.com,
and isn't something which may soon appear on Twitter.com. If Barack
Obama says a sentence, it isn't a tweet until it is on Twitter.com.
Furthermore, you should get rid of the part where it says "edit or
revise". It is sufficient to say integrity, particularly as new
transformational tools come on line. For example, if a user queues up
tweets and indicates that he wishes for them to be translated into
Klingon prior to their tweeting, that does constitute "edits and
revisions" to those tweets. But presumably this is acceptable as the
user has approved such transformation.
Similarly, I think you need to account for the fact that many
applications allow the user to approve action-based Tweets where there
is no actual "text" to approve. For example, the Firefox add-ons that
let me tweet a particular URL, or one that lets me tweet stock trades
I am making, etc. In these cases, I have approved the method to
create the tweet (that I press a button and the URL and Title of the
page I am on will be tweeted), but I haven't explicitly approved the
text of that URL/title (nor would I want to go through that hassle).
I would reword the section, then, as something like: "Maintain the
integrity of the user-approved text to be tweeted, or the process by
which the text to be tweeted is created; and do not edit or revise
said text, except where the user has specifically approved such
transformations."
3. "Get each user's consent before sending Tweets or other messages
on their behalf. A user authenticating with your application does not
constitute consent to send a message."
Okay, so what DOES constitute consent? A checkbox that defaults to
'on' with the Tweet? Or a checkbox that defaults to 'off' and which
the user can turn on? What about if the user agrees to a long small-
type contract wherein it stipulates that the app can tweet on their
behalf (yet which the user most likely hasn't fully read)? I think
instead of defining what DOESN"T constitute consent, you should give
examples of what does constitute consent.
On Sep 10, 4:58 pm, Marcel Molina <mar...@twitter.com> wrote:
> To accompany our updated Terms of Service (http://bit.ly/2ZXsyW) we've
Dewald Pretorius
Twitter TOS.
Alex, you will need to jump on this draft from a dizzy height and get
all your Platform rules in there.
Once the API Rules are published as "The Rules" you will have no
grounds to blacklist an application for other than what is written in
"The Rules". Unless the rules also state that, "we can blacklist an
app for any other reason as we deem fit," which will fly like a lead
balloon.
If the rules are not clear and comprehensive, they will become a ball
and chain around the ankles of the Platform team.
Dewald
Dean Collins
Yep, this "we can blacklist an app for any other reason as we deem fit," stuff is fine but don’t expect other 3rd party developers to play along.
I’ve been trying to get an “exact number of people you can delete from a following” in 24 hours without risking your twitter account from the tech support team following the suspension of my @LiveNFLchat account, no one seems to know/be prepared to state a number.
We’re happy to play by the rules, just spell out what those rules clearly are.
Regards,
Dean Collins
Live Chat Concepts Inc
De...@LiveChatConcepts.com
+1-212-203-4357 New
York
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
-----Original
Message-----
From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dewald Pretorius
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:43 AM
To: Twitter Development Talk
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: Draft: Twitter Rules for API Use
I guess the lawyers wrote this draft as an extension of the modified
Ben Eliott
reason - "Twitter may suspend or terminate your access to the API" -
That being true, effectively it means that's the rule and the other
points are really guidelines. It provides total freedom for the
Platform team. That's also my understanding of the current rules/TOS.
It's not obvious how to make an investable app on this basis. Am i
wrong about this. Or can anyone confirm experience of successfully
negotiating around this caveat for a due diligence?
Ben
Marco Kaiser
Yep, this "we can blacklist an app for any other reason as we deem fit," stuff is fine but don’t expect other 3rd party developers to play along.
I’ve been trying to get an “exact number of people you can delete from a following” in 24 hours without risking your twitter account from the tech support team following the suspension of my @LiveNFLchat account, no one seems to know/be prepared to state a number.
Dean Collins
From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marco Kaiser
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009
10:43 AM
To: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: Draft:
Twitter Rules for API Use
Yep, this "we can blacklist an app for any other reason as we deem fit," stuff is fine but don’t expect other 3rd party developers to play along.
I’ve been trying to get an “exact number of people you can delete from a following” in 24 hours without risking your twitter account from the tech support team following the suspension of my @LiveNFLchat account, no one seems to know/be prepared to state a number.
have you considered that there might not be a fixed number, but a
pattern of requests that they are looking for? have you considered that
revealing this pattern (or even the number, if that's what it is) cannot be in
Twitter's interest to fight spammers, as they could make very good use of that
information and adjust their bots accordingly? some rules just cannot be made
public, for very good reasons. yes, that's annoying - but to be blunt, if
you're app is getting caught by those rulse, it's likely that Twitter does
consider what your are doing as being "spam". And I am not saying
that it is (I don't even know what you do), it's just a logical consequence:
rules to prevent spam -> app caught by rules -> app is considered doing
spam
We’re happy to play by the rules, just spell out what those rules clearly are.
Regards,Dean Collins
Dude all I did yesterday was startup my @LiveNFLchat account for the first game of the season which hadn’t really been used since last season.
Basically fired up TwitterKarma to delete accounts not following me from last seasons posts and then started following people chatting about the Titans V’s Steelers season opener game last night.
I didn’t send a single direct message and apart from two posts about the volume of twittersphere nfl traffic and that was it.
Hardly spamming.
Basically I’m fairly sure my account was singled out because of my on going legal issues with a totally separate and unrelated project.
The two projects are totally unrelated but I get the feeling if I fire up and use any of my 22 twitter accounts they are all going to be closed down 1 by 1.
Like is said, speel out the rules and people will use them – oitherwise I’m just as happy to move my apps off twitter and move to facebook or some other platform. Twitter is where it is BECAUSE of third party application developers not in spite of it.
Ben’s comments are spot on how are you supposed to invest your time and energy when you can be shut down for not following ‘unspecified rules’.
Marco Kaiser
all I'm saying is that 1) an exact number might not exist, and 2) they have good reason not to reveal the exact trigger for an account suspension. Name any other service that gives you all the details.
Oh, and by the way, have fun on Facebook, this is from their TOS:
"If you violate the letter or spirit of this Statement, or otherwise create possible legal exposure for us, we can stop providing all or part of Facebook to you."
pretty general, too, isn't it?
Marco
Ryan Sarver
The intention here is to stop applications that are posting on the
user's behalf without an explicit understanding of the action. There
are some apps that post without the user giving permission each time,
but the app needs to specify that at some point and the user needs to
be fully aware of it.
We should never see "Sorry about that last post, app X sent it out
without me knowing". That can mean different things for different
applications, but its about setting the expectations properly so users
are never surprised by what you as an app developer do on their
behalf. We take user's reputations and voices seriously and all app
developers should too.
Make sense?
Best, Ryan
PJB
Dean:
Can you please stop posting about your individual TWITTER ACCOUNT
issue on a Twitter developer forum? No "app" was blacklisted in your
case -- rather your account was suspended. There's a big difference,
and this particular forum topic is about API Rules, NOT about Twitter
account rules.
While I'm sure your situation sucks, you are confusing and conflating
this very important topic -- API rules -- with something totally
different (Twitter user rules).
PB
On Sep 11, 7:21 am, "Dean Collins" <D...@cognation.net> wrote:
> Yep, this "we can blacklist an app for any other reason as we deem
> fit," stuff is fine but don't expect other 3rd party developers to play
> along.
>
> I've been trying to get an "exact number of people you can delete from a
> following" in 24 hours without risking your twitter account from the
> tech support team following the suspension of my @LiveNFLchat account,
> no one seems to know/be prepared to state a number.
>
> We're happy to play by the rules, just spell out what those rules
> clearly are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean Collins
> Live Chat Concepts Inc
Dewald Pretorius
Careful with that one, because I have seen users say that about tweets
they specifically scheduled, but have simply forgotten that they did
so. The application is usually the first to be blamed publicly in a
tweet. It's far easier than for the user to say, "Oops, I messed up
and forgot."
As long as you won't be trigger-happy with this one, things should be
fine.
Dewald
Dewald Pretorius
What you did most probably triggered the following churn code in
Twitter, and that was why that account was suspended.
Dewald
John Kalucki
Perhaps your application should send periodic reminder emails to
subscribers, perhaps after each status sent, but limited to once a
week? You could take the opportunity to do marketing and detail future
scheduled tweets and provide a link back to your service for schedule
editing.
-John
Dewald Pretorius
I cannot do that, because my 120,000+ current user base has not opted
in for that type of communication from me.
I will get spam complaints left right and center if I did that, and my
email deliverability on emails that I do send will be severely
impacted.
For your suggestion to work, those emails cannot be optional. It makes
no sense to send such emails to half the user population, because it
still leaves the other half that can blame the app for what they have
forgotten about.
Dewald
Dean Collins
From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PJB
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
To: Twitter Development Talk
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: Draft: Twitter Rules for API Use
Dean:
Can you please stop posting about your individual TWITTER ACCOUNT
issue on a Twitter developer forum? No "app" was blacklisted in your
case -- rather your account was suspended. There's a big difference,
and this particular forum topic is about API Rules, NOT about Twitter
account rules.
While I'm sure your situation sucks, you are confusing and conflating
this very important topic -- API rules -- with something totally
different (Twitter user rules).
PB
Sure PB,
But Dossy who runs Twitter karma might want a specific number of
undeletes per 24 hours SO that he can improve on his application instead
causing twitter end users unnecessary issues.
As I said this isn't an account issue or an api issue - it's a rules
issue and Twitter's insistence of not posting complete and comprehensive
rules for everyone everywhere to follow.
Regards,
Dean
Jesse Stay
PJB
I think you're assuming that correlation equals causation. You have
no idea why you were suspended, and any hypothesis you, or others come
up with, is simply conjecture. It could be because you hit follow
limit repeatedly, because you removed too many people, because
(looking at your Google cache) you have a large number of
advertisements, because most of your tweets contain links, because too
many people blocked you, because too many people reported you as spam,
because you were a victim of a phishing attack, because you logged in
from multiple different IPs, because you clicked on a phishing link,
and on and on.
It's highly unlikely that you're going to find the answer here,
however. The best bet is to follow their reporting system and almost
certainly someone will get in touch with you to explain.
I do hope you give Twitter a little more breathing room before you
"contact the press"!!! ;)
Regards, PB