Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of time.
So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough to use it twice now :-)
THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to > change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to > people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably > assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's > something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but > having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire > thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of > time.
> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough > to use it twice now :-)
> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has > improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce reporting and prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the 'always display images' option in many clients so we changed things around again. Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of work as well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let people know.
> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to > change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to > people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably > assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's > something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but > having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire > thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of > time.
> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough > to use it twice now :-)
> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has > improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce reporting and > prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML > formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the 'always > display images' option in many clients so we changed things around again. > Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of work as > well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let people know.
> Thanks; > – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford > Twitter Dev
> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >> time.
>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough >> to use it twice now :-)
>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
We're (John and I) discussing bounce processing and spam detection and may have to revert the from address change to help with people's spam filters. I'll update once I know more.
> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's certainly > a lot easier for image display, etc.
> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I > hope this will be clarified.
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce >> reporting and >> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the >> 'always >> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around >> again. >> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of >> work as >> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let >> people know.
>> Thanks; >> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >> Twitter Dev
>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it >>> altogether.
>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >>> time.
>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it >>> enough >>> to use it twice now :-)
>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
nore...@twitter.com isn't the best choice because many mailers on the Internet refuse to acknowledge Errors-To: headers.
Right now, because there is little industry consensus on how to properly handle a bounce (aside from send a message back to the Return- Path:) our VERP methodology on address is the best way that we can ensure our bounce processing mechanism is fired.
If we don't process bounces, major ISPs will start to block us for excessive bad addresses, and then no one gets mail.
Matt and I are working to push out proper addressing changes today, and we'll have this sorted shortly.
> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's certainly > a lot easier for image display, etc.
> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I > hope this will be clarified.
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce >> reporting and >> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the >> 'always >> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around >> again. >> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of >> work as >> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let >> people know.
>> Thanks; >> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >> Twitter Dev
>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it >>> altogether.
>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >>> time.
>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it >>> enough >>> to use it twice now :-)
>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
The change in from address was meant to fix the 'allow images' but in the process broke some ISP spam filters, some spam reporting, and a great many people's mail filters. We're working on rolling that back now. Sorry for the disruption.
> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's certainly > a lot easier for image display, etc.
> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I > hope this will be clarified.
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce >> reporting and >> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the >> 'always >> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around >> again. >> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of >> work as >> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let >> people know.
>> Thanks; >> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >> Twitter Dev
>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it >>> altogether.
>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >>> time.
>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it >>> enough >>> to use it twice now :-)
>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
> nore...@twitter.com isn't the best choice because many mailers on > the Internet refuse to acknowledge Errors-To: headers.
> Right now, because there is little industry consensus on how to > properly handle a bounce (aside from send a message back to the > Return-Path:) our VERP methodology on address is the best way that > we can ensure our bounce processing mechanism is fired.
> If we don't process bounces, major ISPs will start to block us for > excessive bad addresses, and then no one gets mail.
> Matt and I are working to push out proper addressing changes today, > and we'll have this sorted shortly.
> -john
> On May 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TjL wrote:
>> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's >> certainly >> a lot easier for image display, etc.
>> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I >> hope this will be clarified.
>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> >> wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce >>> reporting and >>> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >>> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the >>> 'always >>> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around >>> again. >>> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of >>> work as >>> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let >>> people know.
>>> Thanks; >>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >>> Twitter Dev
>>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it >>>> altogether.
>>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste >>>> of >>>> time.
>>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it >>>> enough >>>> to use it twice now :-)
>>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
Seriously? I've already started telling people to change their filters and now they're going to break *again*.
This is why daddy drinks.
All kidding aside, I don't understand how a change like this gets pushed out without the left hand knowing WTF the right hand is doing — which is what it looks like (from an outsider's perspective) happened.
IMO/FWIW: You've gotten too big to make these sorts of changes without more consideration and communication. It makes me look bad as a developer, and it makes Twitter look bad.
The irony is that you're a company built around communication.
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> The change in from address was meant to fix the 'allow images' but in the > process broke some ISP spam filters, some spam reporting, and a great many > people's mail filters. We're working on rolling that back now. Sorry for the > disruption.
> Thanks; > – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford > Twitter Dev
> On May 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TjL wrote:
>> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's certainly >> a lot easier for image display, etc.
>> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I >> hope this will be clarified.
>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce reporting and >>> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >>> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the 'always >>> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around again. >>> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of work as >>> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let people >>> know.
>>> Thanks; >>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >>> Twitter Dev
>>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
>>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >>>> time.
>>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough >>>> to use it twice now :-)
>>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:59 AM, TjL <luo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *sigh*
> Seriously? I've already started telling people to change their filters > and now they're going to break *again*.
> This is why daddy drinks.
> All kidding aside, I don't understand how a change like this gets > pushed out without the left hand knowing WTF the right hand is doing — > which is what it looks like (from an outsider's perspective) happened.
> IMO/FWIW: You've gotten too big to make these sorts of changes without > more consideration and communication. It makes me look bad as a > developer, and it makes Twitter look bad.
> The irony is that you're a company built around communication.
> TjL
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> The change in from address was meant to fix the 'allow images' but in the >> process broke some ISP spam filters, some spam reporting, and a great many >> people's mail filters. We're working on rolling that back now. Sorry for the >> disruption.
>> Thanks; >> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >> Twitter Dev
>> On May 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TjL wrote:
>>> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's certainly >>> a lot easier for image display, etc.
>>> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change back. I >>> hope this will be clarified.
>>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce reporting and >>>> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >>>> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the 'always >>>> display images' option in many clients so we changed things around again. >>>> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch of work as >>>> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let people >>>> know.
>>>> Thanks; >>>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >>>> Twitter Dev
>>>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from (From:)
>>>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport has to >>>>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining to >>>>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>>>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it altogether.
>>>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), it's >>>>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>>>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the entire >>>>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant waste of >>>>> time.
>>>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it enough >>>>> to use it twice now :-)
>>>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>>>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
I left last night while they were rolling this back to the old long format addresses. Re-reading the logs this morning it seems like there was some sort of problem and it was rolled back. Waiting for the engineer in question so I can find out more details but based on what I'm seeing it looks like an unrelated problem. I expect the long-style addresses to be re-deployed with our first deploy today.
As far as poor communication: that's fair. I made this change after talking with the mail processing folks (ok, the guy) and product folks and I broke your filters. I'm sorry about that and when you brought it up I fixed the issue, wrote the tests, replied to the mails and begged the deploy engineer to make it an emergency. I tried to communicate things.
I should have told the list (and probably posted to blog.twitter.com) this user-facing email change was coming … surprise is overrated. I definitely should have thought more about how it would effect filtering. Totally my bad … you can send flaming sacks of dog poop to REDACTED.
> When you decide on the final format and deploy, will you let us know, > please? I'm leaving my email filters in limbo until then.
> Thanks, > -Chad
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:59 AM, TjL <luo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> *sigh*
>> Seriously? I've already started telling people to change their >> filters >> and now they're going to break *again*.
>> This is why daddy drinks.
>> All kidding aside, I don't understand how a change like this gets >> pushed out without the left hand knowing WTF the right hand is >> doing — >> which is what it looks like (from an outsider's perspective) >> happened.
>> IMO/FWIW: You've gotten too big to make these sorts of changes >> without >> more consideration and communication. It makes me look bad as a >> developer, and it makes Twitter look bad.
>> The irony is that you're a company built around communication.
>> TjL
>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> >> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> The change in from address was meant to fix the 'allow images' >>> but in the >>> process broke some ISP spam filters, some spam reporting, and a >>> great many >>> people's mail filters. We're working on rolling that back now. >>> Sorry for the >>> disruption.
>>> Thanks; >>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >>> Twitter Dev
>>> On May 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TjL wrote:
>>>> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's >>>> certainly >>>> a lot easier for image display, etc.
>>>> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change >>>> back. I >>>> hope this will be clarified.
>>>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce >>>>> reporting and >>>>> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML >>>>> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the >>>>> 'always >>>>> display images' option in many clients so we changed things >>>>> around again. >>>>> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch >>>>> of work as >>>>> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let >>>>> people >>>>> know.
>>>>> Thanks; >>>>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford >>>>> Twitter Dev
>>>>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
>>>>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from >>>>>> (From:)
>>>>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport >>>>>> has to >>>>>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining >>>>>> to >>>>>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably >>>>>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it >>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to), >>>>>> it's >>>>>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but >>>>>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the >>>>>> entire >>>>>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant >>>>>> waste of >>>>>> time.
>>>>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it >>>>>> enough >>>>>> to use it twice now :-)
>>>>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has >>>>>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
> I left last night while they were rolling this back to the old
> long format addresses. Re-reading the logs this morning it seems like
> there was some sort of problem and it was rolled back. Waiting for the
> engineer in question so I can find out more details but based on what
> I'm seeing it looks like an unrelated problem. I expect the long-style
> addresses to be re-deployed with our first deploy today.
> As far as poor communication: that's fair. I made this change
> after talking with the mail processing folks (ok, the guy) and product
> folks and I broke your filters. I'm sorry about that and when you
> brought it up I fixed the issue, wrote the tests, replied to the mails
> and begged the deploy engineer to make it an emergency. I tried to
> communicate things.
> I should have told the list (and probably posted to
> blog.twitter.com) this user-facing email change was coming … surprise
> is overrated. I definitely should have thought more about how it would
> effect filtering. Totally my bad … you can send flaming sacks of dog
> poop to REDACTED.
> Thanks;
> – Matt "Can do no right" Sanford
> On May 7, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Chad Etzel wrote:
> > Hi Matt,
> > When you decide on the final format and deploy, will you let us know,
> > please? I'm leaving my email filters in limbo until then.
> > Thanks,
> > -Chad
> > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:59 AM, TjL <luo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> *sigh*
> >> Seriously? I've already started telling people to change their
> >> filters
> >> and now they're going to break *again*.
> >> This is why daddy drinks.
> >> All kidding aside, I don't understand how a change like this gets
> >> pushed out without the left hand knowing WTF the right hand is
> >> doing —
> >> which is what it looks like (from an outsider's perspective)
> >> happened.
> >> IMO/FWIW: You've gotten too big to make these sorts of changes
> >> without
> >> more consideration and communication. It makes me look bad as a
> >> developer, and it makes Twitter look bad.
> >> The irony is that you're a company built around communication.
> >> TjL
> >> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> The change in from address was meant to fix the 'allow images'
> >>> but in the
> >>> process broke some ISP spam filters, some spam reporting, and a
> >>> great many
> >>> people's mail filters. We're working on rolling that back now.
> >>> Sorry for the
> >>> disruption.
> >>> Thanks;
> >>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford
> >>> Twitter Dev
> >>> On May 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, TjL wrote:
> >>>> FWIW I think "nore...@twitter.com" is the right choice, it's
> >>>> certainly
> >>>> a lot easier for image display, etc.
> >>>> But it sounds like John Adams thinks this is going to change
> >>>> back. I
> >>>> hope this will be clarified.
> >>>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Matt Sanford <m...@twitter.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi there,
> >>>>> We had changed the from address to try and improve bounce
> >>>>> reporting and
> >>>>> prevent being marked as spam by major ISPs. When we added the HTML
> >>>>> formatting we found that we needed a consistent address for the
> >>>>> 'always
> >>>>> display images' option in many clients so we changed things
> >>>>> around again.
> >>>>> Hopefully this will be the last change as it causes us a bunch
> >>>>> of work as
> >>>>> well. I'll keep an eye out for future changes and try and let
> >>>>> people
> >>>>> know.
> >>>>> Thanks;
> >>>>> – Matt Sanford / @mzsanford
> >>>>> Twitter Dev
> >>>>> On May 6, 2009, at 2:53 PM, TjL wrote:
> >>>>>> The email notifications for new followers used to come from
> >>>>>> (From:)
> >>>>>> Every time you do this, every single person using TwitReport
> >>>>>> has to
> >>>>>> change their filters, and I spend 2 weeks, at least, explaining
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> people why it stopped working, and some number of people probably
> >>>>>> assume that things are broken on my end and stop using it
> >>>>>> altogether.
> >>>>>> I'm not making a dime off of this project (nor do I want to),
> >>>>>> it's
> >>>>>> something that I'm doing to make Twitter a bit nicer to use, but
> >>>>>> having something as basic as this change twice and break the
> >>>>>> entire
> >>>>>> thing is a bit of a pain in the ass and a not-insignificant
> >>>>>> waste of
> >>>>>> time.
> >>>>>> So I hope that y'all will keep this one, since you've liked it
> >>>>>> enough
> >>>>>> to use it twice now :-)
> >>>>>> THAT SAID, I'm glad that the *format* of the notifications has
> >>>>>> improved. I certainly think that is the right way to go.
|
