MyTwitterButler.com Legal issues Update 2
Dean Collins
I’m only sending this to the Twitter-Dev list and not distributing the information to a wider audience but I think the Twitter 3rd party dev community should be aware of a development.
Karen Webb the lawyer for Twitter inc has clearly stated that I will NOT be able to change my applications name from www.MyTwitterButler.com to www.MyTweetButler.com and contrary to Biz Stones blog post of July 1st 2009 http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html#links Twitters lawyers will be pursuing domain names and applications with both the word “Twitter” and with the word “Tweet” in their domain.
The conference call basically fell apart when I realized that the lawyer thought my application did something magical to the API and allowed a twitter account (eg @Tweet_Tools) to follow more people in a day than the API was programmed to allow. Likewise the application could send no more direct messages per day than the AP allows.
- I don’t have an answer about the longer term outcome. I was hoping this was going to be solved with a few 15 minute phone calls BUT it doesn’t appear that this is going to be possible.
I’ve asked for the dialog to move to email rather than voice and also made Twitter Inc aware I’m going to be overseas from next week until the 7th of September so I don’t expect to make an update until after this date.
I appreciate not everyone in the twitter-development community thinks my application should be allowed all I’m asking for is a clear definition of the rules – if you don’t want us to use Tweet or the API in a certain way then don’t write blog posts that say it’s ok (or give code demos at dev-nest meetup events for things you now say the API isn’t to be used for).
Either way I think the dev community needs to know that….changing your apps name to TweetX etc (even if the term Tweet was coined by the user community) isn’t going to be allowed by Twitter. That’s until after the 7th of Sept.
Regards,
Dean Collins
de...@MyTwitterButler.com
+1-212-203-4357 New York
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
Dale Merritt
Dale Merritt
Fol.la MeDia, LLC
Josh Roesslein
I was upset when I heard twitter was getting sued over patent infringement, but now I'm starting to think they might need a taste of their own medicine.
I have no plans to use either "twitter" or "tweet" or "twit" in my products, but I still feel sorry for the developers who are getting pushed around just because twitter has the jitters that we might mess up their good name. Well guess what twitter, you are doing that just fine yourself.
I don't blame the lawyers, its their nature and their job. But twitter has a choice to do no evil in this matter.
I really hope they can come up with a reasonable solution that can work for all parties.
Dewald Pretorius
anywhere, I'm just going to write them as tw****r and tw**t from now
on.
Can you have *'s in your domain name?
Dewald
PS. Why and/or how can something be enforced that has not been granted
yet? Or, am I missing something here.
Dewald Pretorius
developer community should all rise and give them a standing ovation
for a brilliant performance in pissing people off.
EdPimentl
Here are some domain ideas:
1- SendR , SndeR,
2-MessgMe, Msg.Me,
3-Tmesg.in tmsg.in
4-sportstlk, sportsmesg.in
5-SendIt4.me DoIt4.Me
6-TxtButler, TsmgButlr
7-ThreadedMsg
8-ConTEXTual
-E
Gpro.ws
Duane Roelands
since he's been lying from the get go (e.g. claiming "Twitter's suing
me" when nothing of the kind was happening). I give no credibility to
those who practice deception in order to win people to their cause.
Dewald Pretorius
I do not think it is necessary to get personal here.
I took "Tw****r is suing me" as an expression of panic, nothing more.
Dewald
PJB
This is all rather scary, especially for those of us dedicating
significant resources to Twitter-related development.
I was having a new logo designed... it was going to be in light blue.
I guess I will have to reconsider that option now!
Dean Collins
Sorry Duane, This is the first time I've ever had legal action in any of the internet website projects I've worked on.
I now know the difference.
Twitter inc sent MyTwitterButler a cease and desist notice to comply with the following;
with the threat of cancellation of all my twitter accounts and possible legal action to enforce their intellectual property rights.
As for the ‘my characterization of the events’….would you like to listen to the phone call?
(and yes the lawyer knows they were being recorded – all of my calls both inbound and outbound get recorded to my Trixbox asterisk ip-pbx).
Regards,
Dean Collins
de...@MyTwitterButler.com
+1-212-203-4357 New York
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
avail4one
\./'\./ /'\ \ ]. /'\./'\ /'\ /'\./
Andrew Badera
defense of such, is utter motherf*cking bullshit. Who's up for getting
the resources together for a legal challenge of the trademark? We
users and developers created and popularized the term "tweet" way back
when -- when Twitter was still calling "tweets" "updates"
Twitter keeps going like this and Rome WILL burn.
∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
Josh Roesslein
give a company rights over a domain name. I think that's how squatters can get away by buying up domains
then selling them for a lot of $$ to companies. As long as the domain does not mimic a product of twitter
its yours to keep. Of course if twitter offers a fair price for it, that's a different story. So maybe talk to a lawyer
and see what rights you have.
Good luck with your battle Dean, hopefully you and twitter can work something out.
Josh
Rich
said that the encourage using Tweet and will not be 'going after' apps
that use it would lend itself to a strong defence in my opinion.
However the word Twitter probably wouldn't based on the fact it's the
name of the company!
On Aug 15, 5:49 am, Josh Roesslein <jroessl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think twitter can force you to give up the domain name. From my
> understanding trademarks do not
> give a company rights over a domain name. I think that's how squatters can
> get away by buying up domains
> then selling them for a lot of $$ to companies. As long as the domain does
> not mimic a product of twitter
> its yours to keep. Of course if twitter offers a fair price for it, that's a
> different story. So maybe talk to a lawyer
> and see what rights you have.
>
> Good luck with your battle Dean, hopefully you and twitter can work
> something out.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Dean Collins <D...@cognation.net> wrote:
> > Sorry Duane, This is the first time I've ever had legal action in any of
> > the internet website projects I've worked on.
>
> > I now know the difference.
>
> > Twitter inc sent MyTwitterButler a cease and desist notice to comply with
> > the following;
>
> > legal action to enforce their intellectual property rights.
>
> > As for the ‘my characterization of the events’….would you like to listen to
> > the phone call?
>
> > (and yes the lawyer knows they were being recorded – all of my calls both
> > inbound and outbound get recorded to my Trixbox asterisk ip-pbx).
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Dean Collins
> > +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
> > +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Duane Roelands
> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:44 PM
> > To: Twitter Development Talk
> > Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: MyTwitterButler.com Legal issues Update 2
>
> > I'm afraid I'm not willing to accept Dean's characterization of events
>
> > since he's been lying from the get go (e.g. claiming "Twitter's suing
>
> > me" when nothing of the kind was happening). I give no credibility to
>
> > those who practice deception in order to win people to their cause.
>
> > On Aug 14, 7:31 pm, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Unless something drastic changes in their approach, I think we as a
>
> > > developer community should all rise and give them a standing ovation
>
> > > for a brilliant performance in pissing people off.
>
> --
> Josh
>
> 20KViewDownload
Dale Merritt
Neil Ellis
Scott Haneda
Vision Jinx
Cameron Kaiser
> thread sooner rather than later as I am concerned this will end up in
> the press with quite a negative spin - unless there is some quick
> clear guidance.
I doubt very much that the Twitter people who follow this thread, who are
not lawyers, are going to comment on a pending legal request or action. I
know *I* wouldn't, if it were the company I worked for.
I'm sure there are backchannel discussions but I doubt you'll see them here.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * cka...@floodgap.com
-- END OF LINE. ---------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Roesslein
dev will comment on this since they can't speak on behalf of twitter's legal plans. They probably
don't even know what legal plans are in place.
Josh
Andrew Badera
communicate with the dev list on these matters "in the near future" in
an earlier thread.
∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
Dean Collins
It's more a 'by-product' in that I needed to create something to track baseball tweets for another project.
I kind of feel bad in that Twitter inc has probably spent more on legal fees that I've made on revenue for the www.MyTwitterButler.com application - like I said I originally gave the program away to anyone who wanted a copy and only started charging when I was getting so many emails from friends and friends of friends.
I was hoping this was going to be sorted before I went overseas on holidays with one or two 15 minute phone calls but it hasn't.
I'm hoping Twitter and their legal counsel and their public relations people can lay out the rules clearly and cleanly for everyone to understand so that those of you on the mailing list who are trying to make a business out of helping twitter ecosystem improve don’t get a wrench thrown in your plans after you've spent all your time and effort adding value to twitter only to find their not happy with your product.
As long as the rules are applied to everyone across the board then you cant ask for more than that.
At the end of the day if Twitter sent an email to the dev list and said hey guys we want you to move the 30-40 applications with twitter in the name to something else I would have been like, cool no probs lets go pick a new name.
Regards,
Dean Collins
de...@MyTwitterButler.com
+1-212-203-4357 New York
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
-----Original Message-----
From: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Badera
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:30 PM
To: twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: MyTwitterButler.com Legal issues Update 2
Andrew McCloud
But... I would check to make sure they have grounds to stand on. It
may just be a bluff, or they may not be respecting the views of the
company they represent.
Andrew
On Aug 14, 1:25 pm, "Dean Collins" <D...@cognation.net> wrote:
> I'm only sending this to the Twitter-Dev list and not distributing the
> information to a wider audience but I think the Twitter 3rd party dev
> community should be aware of a development.
>
> Karen Webb the lawyer for Twitter inc has clearly stated that I will NOT
> be able to change my applications name fromwww.MyTwitterButler.com
> <http://www.mytweetbutler.com/> and contrary to Biz Stones blog post of
> July 1st 2009http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html#links
> both the word "Twitter" and with the word "Tweet" in their domain.
>
> The conference call basically fell apart when I realized that the lawyer
> thought my application did something magical to the API and allowed a
> twitter account (eg @Tweet_Tools) to follow more people in a day than
> the API was programmed to allow. Likewise the application could send no
> more direct messages per day than the AP allows.
>
> - I don't have an answer about the longer term outcome. I was
> hoping this was going to be solved with a few 15 minute phone calls BUT
> it doesn't appear that this is going to be possible.
>
> I've asked for the dialog to move to email rather than voice and also
> made Twitter Inc aware I'm going to be overseas from next week until the
> 7th of September so I don't expect to make an update until after this
> date.
>
> I appreciate not everyone in the twitter-development community thinks my
> application should be allowed all I'm asking for is a clear definition
> dev-nest meetup events for things you now say the API isn't to be used
> for).
>
> community) isn't going to be allowed by Twitter. That's until after the
> 7th of Sept.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean Collins
> <mailto:d...@MyTwitterButler.com?subject=I'm%20being%20Sued>
Patrick Kennedy
terms of service. Blue, birds, fonts, etc, depends on context
Microsoft doesn't sue for orange; Oracle doesn't sue for red. Orange
is in the common domain. But if you use fonts, birds, colors, these,
and so forth, such that you look like Twitter, that could tip the
scales.
If you don't charge for money and follow TOS, Twitter probably
wouldn't care about Twit; again, it's context. But that's my 2 cents.
Can Microsoft control "soft"? No, it's software. Twit wouldn't mean
anything without Twitter, but Twit is analogous to soft, and morphing
things in a positive way is why spam exists in Cyberspace.
On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Dale Merritt<mogu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been through something very similiar to this with a trademark dispute
> I had with a major cable television network. I understand the dispute
> process pretty well, as well as what you can or (not supposed to be able to)
> and can't trademark. There is a window of opportunity that you have to
> dispute it, which is after the mark has been approved for publication. The
> only thing with the dispute is that you are going to spend some pretty good
> money just to do that. What you may do is put together a package of
> documents (Stone's post), and some hard proof, hopefully coming from Twitter
> folks directly that admits that Tweet was coined by users, along with info
> that shows screenshots of old twitter pages that show there is no indication
> of the word tweet anywhere.
> Turn in the package of docs to the examiner assigned to this trademark
> application and make contact with them about it after you sent it registered
> mail. This may save you tons of money.
>
> Tweet is generic, and there is no way that Tweet can't be seen as a form of
> the mark Twitter. Twit, sure that's pretty staight forward, but tweet I
> dont think so.
> Good luck.
--
Patrick Kennedy
TweetAloha.com
PJB
The scariest part about all of this, frankly, is less the trademark
stuff, and more the fact that he is being punished for violating
Twitter's terms and services. As near as I can tell, his app just
follows users who tweet certain keywords. It doesn't even UNFOLLOW
them (thus potentially churning), it just follows people.
Since there are API calls for those actions, many of us have built
rich apps around follow. Indeed, Twitter DOES support mass
following... if not, why would batch following be in their roadmap
(http://apiwiki.twitter.com/V2-Roadmap#Following )... To now see
another app taken down because of supposed API violations around mass
following is very scary.
And what's even MORE scary is the selectivity of it. Why was this
little guy taken down? What about, say, the popular downloadable XYZ
app which apparently does what tweetbutler does and then some? Do
they have some more formal relationship with Twitter? Or do their
other apps somehow inculcate them against violating TS?
It's a minefield out there, and that's VERY VERY scary. Who knows if
the API calls you make today might violate terms and services
tomorrow? Perhaps you can count your lucky stars if you have casual
email correspondence with a Twitter engineer... maybe that's what's
needed to fend off trouble? And too bad for those guys over in
England, like this guy, who perhaps didn't have such a relationship!
Dale Merritt
Nicole Simon
not exactly knowing the US system but I do assume 'that computery or internet one' is already taken by twit / leo laport.
http://twit.com is this week in tech
NIcole
--
Jetzt im Buchhandel:
"Twitter - Mit 140 Zeichen zum Web 2.0"
Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/6at9c5
http://mit140zeichen.de - http://twitter.com/m140z
Kontakt:
http://twitter.com/NicoleSimon
https://www.xing.com/profile/Nicole_Simon
skype: nicole.simon / mailto:nicole...@mit140zeichen.de
phone: +49 451 899 75 03 / mobile: +49 179 499 7076
Matt Freedman
> It is going to be interesting if they try to go after twit - as far as I
> know this is a trademark which belongs to leo laporte and the trademark
> department only has so many classes available.
>
> not exactly knowing the US system but I do assume 'that computery or
> internet one' is already taken by twit / leo laport.
No, the Twit trademark doesn't cover most of the Twitter-related use
of it[1]. Although some uses (such as TwitVid) may be considered
trademark infringement under the Twit trademark.
[1] <http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4002:5a6vq8.2.1>
--
Matt Freedman
http://mattfreedman.ca/