Fabricantes negociam embutir o Ginga em chips
Christian Brackmann
O professor Luiz Fernando Soares, da PUC/Rio de Janeiro e representante da academia no Fórum SBTVD, adiantou durante o Rio Info 2010, evento que reúne o setor de TIC nesta semana, no Rio de Janeiro, que foi procurado por três empresas para viabilizar a inserção do ginga NCL - middleware de interatividade - diretamente nos processadores, para redução de custos e otimização do uso de software.
Luiz Fernando Soares foi bastasnte crítico com relação às soluções apresentadas, hoje, para a TV digital interativa. Segundo ele, elas são "fraquinhas e não utilizam 5% da capacidade já disponível do Ginga".
Com relação ao Ginga NCL, diz que há um movimento para que o W3C e o Open IPTV Forum também o adotem como padrão, como já o fez a União Internacional de Telecomunicações. E indagado sobre um possível 'boom ' da interatividade em 2011, Luiz Fernando Soares foi bastante reticente. Acompanhe a entrevista do professor da PUC/RJ à CDTV, do Convergência Digital.
Bruno Lima
Bruno Seabra Mendonça Lima
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Bacharel em Ciência da Computação - UFMA
Mestrando da PUC-Rio
Pesquisador Laboratório Telemidia (PUC-Rio)
Pesquisador Colaborador LAWS (UFMA)
Pesquisador/Desenvolvedor Intacto Software
-------------
www.bslima.com
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ramon lima
Abs,
Ramon
--
Binary packages encourage inconsistency and incompatibility, whearas source encourages unified development frameworks and integration
gentoo.org
Fernando Cassia
making Ginga burned into a chip, which CANNOT BE UPDATED. (sorry, I
cannot stress this enough without using caps).
A set top box is a small embedded computer, with its ICs for tuning,
and an OS and Firmware (ginga) loaded from Flash memory into RAM.
In what sense how could one put "Ginga on a chip"? Why? How would you
update it afterwards if it´s burned into an non-reprogrammable IC?
FC
2010/9/2 ramon lima <ram...@gmail.com>:
--
"It begins with a blessing
And it ends with a curse;
Making life easy,
By making it worse;"
-- Kevin Ayers
ramon lima
Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture. I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec itself while still respecting the standards established.
Best Regards,
Ramon
Felipe Magno de Almeida
> I agree Fernando,
> Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used
> in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
and update it.
> I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have
> updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec
> itself while still respecting the standards established.
If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
Also, there's nothing stopping someone writing Ginga from scratch with
a proprietary license.
> Best Regards,
> Ramon
--
Felipe Magno de Almeida
ramon lima
2010/9/2 ramon lima <ram...@gmail.com>:
> I agree Fernando,It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
> Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used
> in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
and update it.
If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
> I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have
> updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec
> itself while still respecting the standards established.
doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
Also, there's nothing stopping someone writing Ginga from scratch with
a proprietary license.
> Best Regards,
> Ramon
--
Felipe Magno de Almeida
--
TVDI - Grupo de Discussão da TV Digital Interativa
Para sair do grupo: tvinterativa...@googlegroups.com
Fernando Cassia
>> I agree Fernando,
>> Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used
>> in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
>
> It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
> and update it.
But you can update Ginga on set top boxes. Why can´t the same be
expected on TVs?.
Do you think people will replace the TV because of a bugfix release or
to get a higher ginga version?.
>> I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have
>> updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec
>> itself while still respecting the standards established.
>
> If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
> doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
I believe this is an "Apples and oranges" comparison. Tivo is not an
open industry spec, is a propietary device.
Going back to the subject: "ginga on a chip" is a silly argument.
Ginga is ALREADY on a chip, a flash memory chip, on most STBs that
carry it.
What are you trying to invent? I´m not following the logic. It´s akin
to saying "linux on a chip". Hey, if it´s an embedded system, then
Linux is already on a chip. A Flash memory IC.
FC
Felipe Magno de Almeida
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Felipe Magno de Almeida
> <felipe.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2010/9/2 ramon lima <ram...@gmail.com>:
>>> I agree Fernando,
>>> Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used
>>> in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
>>
>> It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
>> and update it.
>
> But you can update Ginga on set top boxes. Why can´t the same be
> expected on TVs?.
> Do you think people will replace the TV because of a bugfix release or
> to get a higher ginga version?.
It will be updated if the manufacturer decides to update. It won't be
open for the user to update when a newer version of Ginga is released.
At least I don't see this happening.
It sure is better to use flash memory though, since the manufacturer
can update it if needed. But only the manufacturer will be able to
write updates. So the point that the reference implementation of Ginga
is open is completely irrelevant. Though I wasn't explicit, that was
my criticism. Ginga being open doesn't change anything to the user in
terms of freedom.
>>> I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have
>>> updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec
>>> itself while still respecting the standards established.
>>
>> If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
>> doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
>
> I believe this is an "Apples and oranges" comparison. Tivo is not an
> open industry spec, is a propietary device.
The Ginga spec is open, but that will only change to the manufactures
and developers. It will be as open as android is. Unless you root your
phone your you're still constrained by the manufacturer. Probably
worse, since Ginga doesn't say anything about running local
applications.
> Going back to the subject: "ginga on a chip" is a silly argument.
> Ginga is ALREADY on a chip, a flash memory chip, on most STBs that
> carry it.
I agree.
> What are you trying to invent? I´m not following the logic. It´s akin
> to saying "linux on a chip". Hey, if it´s an embedded system, then
> Linux is already on a chip. A Flash memory IC.
My criticism was directed at Ramon Lima arguments. Not yours.
> FC
>
> --
Regards,
Felipe Magno de Almeida
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Felipe Magno de Almeida
> <felipe.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 2010/9/2 ramon lima <ram...@gmail.com>:
>> > I agree Fernando,
>> > Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be
>> > used
>> > in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
>>
>> It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
>> and update it.
>
> Why not? http://planetech.uol.com.br/?p=10642
The update still comes from the manufacturer. You can't update the
DTVi implemented in your TV just because you found and fixed a bug in
the Ginga reference implementation.
>> If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
>> doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
>> Also, there's nothing stopping someone writing Ginga from scratch with
>> a proprietary license.
>
> Yes, that's what tqtvd did! Tivo is totally different project is focused on
> a "closed in" DVR, Ginga is even for IPTV, imagine a couple of years from
> now having Ginga in a MP4 Player and the MP4s connecting to Wifi networks..
> :)
The Ginga standard is. But I don't see what the reference
implementation being open or not changes anything w.r.t freedom for
the end-users.
Don't get me wrong, I do find Ginga reference implementation being
open a very good thing. But good for midleware developers, Ginga
application developers and manufacturers. But it still doesn't change
anything w.r.t. freedom for the end-users. They are still constrained
to the devices they can buy and what features and freedom they
deliver.
> --
> TVDI - Grupo de Discussão da TV Digital Interativa
> Para sair do grupo: tvinterativa...@googlegroups.com
Regards,
ramon lima
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Fernando Cassia <fca...@gmail.com> wrote:It will be updated if the manufacturer decides to update. It won't be
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Felipe Magno de Almeida
> <felipe.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2010/9/2 ramon lima <ram...@gmail.com>:
>>> I agree Fernando,
>>> Another point is why have all this hardware spec if what is going to be used
>>> in the end is a closed in chip, from a "who knows" industry manufacture.
>>
>> It will always be like that. You won't be able to crack open your TV
>> and update it.
>
> But you can update Ginga on set top boxes. Why can´t the same be
> expected on TVs?.
> Do you think people will replace the TV because of a bugfix release or
> to get a higher ginga version?.
open for the user to update when a newer version of Ginga is released.
At least I don't see this happening.
It sure is better to use flash memory though, since the manufacturer
can update it if needed. But only the manufacturer will be able to
write updates. So the point that the reference implementation of Ginga
is open is completely irrelevant. Though I wasn't explicit, that was
my criticism. Ginga being open doesn't change anything to the user in
terms of freedom.
It's silly not to leave it open, I'm also against not having a ginga updater software embedded in STBs or TVs that have Ethernet port, in a couple of years Ginga will be at a more advanced version and the population will have a big mix of versions. It will be just like Android is right now..
>>> I think the biggest point of making it opensource was to not only have
>>> updatabled software but to have openness / liberty within the hardware spec
>>> itself while still respecting the standards established.
>>
>> If so, then for the wrong reasons. TiVo uses opensource software. It
>> doesn't make it a open hardware or platform.
>
> I believe this is an "Apples and oranges" comparison. Tivo is not an
> open industry spec, is a propietary device.
ok, I agree!
The Ginga spec is open, but that will only change to the manufactures
and developers. It will be as open as android is. Unless you root your
phone your you're still constrained by the manufacturer. Probably
worse, since Ginga doesn't say anything about running local
applications.
I agree.
> Going back to the subject: "ginga on a chip" is a silly argument.
> Ginga is ALREADY on a chip, a flash memory chip, on most STBs that
> carry it.
My criticism was directed at Ramon Lima arguments. Not yours.
> What are you trying to invent? I´m not following the logic. It´s akin
> to saying "linux on a chip". Hey, if it´s an embedded system, then
> Linux is already on a chip. A Flash memory IC.
I'm lost! :)
> FC
>
> --
Regards,
--
Felipe Magno de Almeida
--
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Para sair do grupo: tvinterativa...@googlegroups.com