abstracting frameworks non-goal - TurboGears

Message from discussion abstracting frameworks non-goal

Jeremy Jones

More options Sep 23 2005, 10:15 am

From: Jeremy Jones <zanes...@bellsouth.net>

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:15:50 -0400

Local: Fri, Sep 23 2005 10:15 am

Subject: Re: [TurboGears] abstracting frameworks non-goal

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Kevin Dangoor wrote:
>On 9/22/05, Jeremy Jones <zanes...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>[lots of snippage]

>> Isolating the exception into a TG specific exception
>>makes more sense to me. It accomplishes the same thing and keeps the
>>Pythonicity of the CP redirect. Creating a TG.redirect exception would
>>currently get a +0 from me unless there is serious thoughts on going
>>with other web frameworks in the future, in which case I would give it a +1.

>Since Jeremy brought this up, I figured I'd toss this out for the
>record... and yes, I realize that Jeremy is not actually suggesting we
>abstract things out. I just want to emphasize this point...

>I've seen attempts to abstract out frameworks in Javaland (anything
>that involves making more Interfaces must be good, right?), and
>they're not pretty.

>Abstracting out the major parts of TurboGears (MochiKit, Kid, CherryPy
>and SQLObject) in order to be able to theoretically switch them out is
>a non-goal. Maybe even an anti-goal.

Since Fabian already gave a second, I'll give a third. I'll go with
simplicity over *perceived* flexibility, especially when the tools
you've combined *really* do offer tons of flexibility. I like your
position (and choice of words) of "anti-goal".

>One strength we have here is that there are other people with
>completely different needs using these tools. That means that even as
>we work on making things easier and more fun to use in a TurboGears
>context, there are other people working on improving CherryPy, for
>example, for their own nefarious purposes (bwahahaha). By not hiding
>away CP, we're able to make use of improvements as soon as they
>appear.

>And, if you go to the CP site and find a cool bit of CP code, you
>should be able to use that directly with TurboGears without a second
>thought.

You mean you expect cooperation between two open source projects? ;-)
I like that. You don't see that very often in the corporate sector.

>Things should be wrapped in a TurboGears wrapper if we're adding code
>that integrates multiple tools (like the Kid<->CherryPy link that
>happens in turbogears.expose).

>Kevin

My optimism and excitement WRT TG increases daily. Thanks, Kevin.

- JMJ

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