> I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

> http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
> Here's an example:

> header {
>  background_color '#eee'
>  margin_bottom '10px'
>  nav {
>    border '1px solid #000'
>    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>  }
>  div.search {
>    float 'right'
>  }
> }

> Output:

> #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> color: blue; }
> #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> #header div.search { float: right; }

> This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
> could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
> Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
> Does it need a Rails plugin?

> Thanks.

> Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> -Tim

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

>> http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>> Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
>> Here's an example:

>> header {
>>  background_color '#eee'
>>  margin_bottom '10px'
>>  nav {
>>    border '1px solid #000'
>>    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>>    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>>  }
>>  div.search {
>>    float 'right'
>>  }
>> }

>> Output:

>> #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>> #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>> #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>> color: blue; }
>> #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>> #header div.search { float: right; }

>> This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
>> could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
>> Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
>> Does it need a Rails plugin?

>> Thanks.

>> Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>> date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>> -Tim

> --
> John Hornbeck
> Support Manager
> Engine Yard
> http://engineyard.com

> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your reasoning
>> behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very popular library that
>> already does something like this.

>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

>>> http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>>> Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
>>> Here's an example:

>>> header {
>>>  background_color '#eee'
>>>  margin_bottom '10px'
>>>  nav {
>>>    border '1px solid #000'
>>>    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>>>    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>>>  }
>>>  div.search {
>>>    float 'right'
>>>  }
>>> }

>>> Output:

>>> #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>>> #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>>> #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>>> color: blue; }
>>> #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>>> #header div.search { float: right; }

>>> This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
>>> could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
>>> Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
>>> Does it need a Rails plugin?

>>> Thanks.

>>> Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>>> date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>>> -Tim

>> --
>> John Hornbeck
>> Support Manager
>> Engine Yard
>> http://engineyard.com

>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your  
> reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very  
> popular library that already does something like this.

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

> http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
> Here's an example:

> header {
>  background_color '#eee'
>  margin_bottom '10px'
>  nav {
>    border '1px solid #000'
>    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>  }
>  div.search {
>    float 'right'
>  }
> }

> Output:

> #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> color: blue; }
> #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> #header div.search { float: right; }

> This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
> could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
> Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
> Does it need a Rails plugin?

> Thanks.

> Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> -Tim

> --
> John Hornbeck
> Support Manager
> Engine Yard
> http://engineyard.com

> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly brackets.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> > popular library that already does something like this.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
> > Here's an example:

> > header {
> >  background_color '#eee'
> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> >  nav {
> >    border '1px solid #000'
> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> >  }
> >  div.search {
> >    float 'right'
> >  }
> > }

> > Output:

> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> > color: blue; }
> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> > Thanks.

> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> > -Tim

> > --
> > John Hornbeck
> > Support Manager
> > Engine Yard
> > http://engineyard.com

> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly brackets.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> > popular library that already does something like this.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
> > Here's an example:

> > header {
> >  background_color '#eee'
> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> >  nav {
> >    border '1px solid #000'
> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> >  }
> >  div.search {
> >    float 'right'
> >  }
> > }

> > Output:

> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> > color: blue; }
> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> > Thanks.

> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> > -Tim

> > --
> > John Hornbeck
> > Support Manager
> > Engine Yard
> > http://engineyard.com

> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <
> jos...@josephholsten.com> wrote:

>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly brackets.

>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
>> > popular library that already does something like this.

>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback on...

>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly easily.
>> > Here's an example:

>> > header {
>> >  background_color '#eee'
>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
>> >  nav {
>> >    border '1px solid #000'
>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>> >  }
>> >  div.search {
>> >    float 'right'
>> >  }
>> > }

>> > Output:

>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>> > color: blue; }
>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I think
>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented) shortcomings.
>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like this?
>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

>> > Thanks.

>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>> > -Tim

>> > --
>> > John Hornbeck
>> > Support Manager
>> > Engine Yard
>> > http://engineyard.com

>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> > wrote:

> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly  
> brackets.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> > popular library that already does something like this.

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>  
> wrote:

> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback  
> on...

> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly  
> easily.
> > Here's an example:

> > header {
> >  background_color '#eee'
> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> >  nav {
> >    border '1px solid #000'
> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> >  }
> >  div.search {
> >    float 'right'
> >  }
> > }

> > Output:

> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> > color: blue; }
> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I  
> think
> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)  
> shortcomings.
> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like  
> this?
> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> > Thanks.

> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> > -Tim

> > --
> > John Hornbeck
> > Support Manager
> > Engine Yard
> > http://engineyard.com

> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> --
> John Hornbeck
> Support Manager
> Engine Yard
> http://engineyard.com

> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> Fowler has the canonical definitions: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a bit
> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse the
> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like data
> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples: Ant, /etc/
> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every markup
> language lies in here.

> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
>> explain

>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
>> > wrote:

>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
>> brackets.

>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
>> > popular library that already does something like this.

>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
>> on...

>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
>> easily.
>> > Here's an example:

>> > header {
>> >  background_color '#eee'
>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
>> >  nav {
>> >    border '1px solid #000'
>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>> >  }
>> >  div.search {
>> >    float 'right'
>> >  }
>> > }

>> > Output:

>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>> > color: blue; }
>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
>> think
>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
>> shortcomings.
>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like
>> this?
>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

>> > Thanks.

>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>> > -Tim

>> > --
>> > John Hornbeck
>> > Support Manager
>> > Engine Yard
>> > http://engineyard.com

>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

>> --
>> John Hornbeck
>> Support Manager
>> Engine Yard
>> http://engineyard.com

>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tulsa Ruby User Group" group.
> To post to this group, send email to tulsarb@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tulsarb+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/

> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com> wrote:

>> Fowler has the canonical definitions: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a bit
>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse the
>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like data
>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples: Ant, /etc/
>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every markup
>> language lies in here.

>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
>>> explain

>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
>>> > wrote:

>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
>>> brackets.

>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:

>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
>>> on...

>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
>>> easily.
>>> > Here's an example:

>>> > header {
>>> >  background_color '#eee'
>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
>>> >  nav {
>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>>> >  }
>>> >  div.search {
>>> >    float 'right'
>>> >  }
>>> > }

>>> > Output:

>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>>> > color: blue; }
>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
>>> think
>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
>>> shortcomings.
>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like
>>> this?
>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

>>> > Thanks.

>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>>> > -Tim

>>> > --
>>> > John Hornbeck
>>> > Support Manager
>>> > Engine Yard
>>> > http://engineyard.com

>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

>>> --
>>> John Hornbeck
>>> Support Manager
>>> Engine Yard
>>> http://engineyard.com

>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason of
> all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to be
> less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a part
> of OneBody or another project someday.

> Thanks for your feedback!

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

>> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com> wrote:

>>> Fowler has the canonical definitions: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

>>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
>>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a bit
>>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse the
>>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
>>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
>>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

>>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like data
>>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples: Ant, /etc/
>>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every markup
>>> language lies in here.

>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

>>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
>>>> explain

>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
>>>> > wrote:

>>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
>>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
>>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
>>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

>>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

>>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

>>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
>>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
>>>> brackets.

>>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
>>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
>>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

>>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:

>>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
>>>> on...

>>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
>>>> easily.
>>>> > Here's an example:

>>>> > header {
>>>> >  background_color '#eee'
>>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
>>>> >  nav {
>>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
>>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>>>> >  }
>>>> >  div.search {
>>>> >    float 'right'
>>>> >  }
>>>> > }

>>>> > Output:

>>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
>>>> > color: blue; }
>>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

>>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
>>>> think
>>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
>>>> shortcomings.
>>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like
>>>> this?
>>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

>>>> > Thanks.

>>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>>>> > -Tim

>>>> > --
>>>> > John Hornbeck
>>>> > Support Manager
>>>> > Engine Yard
>>>> > http://engineyard.com

>>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

>>>> --
>>>> John Hornbeck
>>>> Support Manager
>>>> Engine Yard
>>>> http://engineyard.com

>>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> Let me clarify: CascadingRubies is an internal Ruby DSL -- not an
> external interpreted one like Sass. Cuz I said that kinda funny.

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:
> > Thanks Joseph for that wonderful explanation. Yes, this library is a
> > bonefied DSL, meaning the code is actual Ruby. Sass, on the other
> > hand, is interpreted as it's own language. With the DSL approach, I'm
> > able to mix in regular Ruby variables, require Ruby libraries, do
> > color arithmetic, heck I could even pull CSS colors and font sizes out
> > of my database and write them directly in my CSS file.

> > As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason of
> > all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to be
> > less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a part
> > of OneBody or another project someday.

> > Thanks for your feedback!

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

> >> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

> >> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com>
> wrote:

> >>> Fowler has the canonical definitions:
> http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

> >>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
> >>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a bit
> >>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse the
> >>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
> >>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
> >>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

> >>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like data
> >>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples: Ant, /etc/
> >>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every markup
> >>> language lies in here.

> >>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

> >>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
> >>>> explain

> >>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <
> jos...@josephholsten.com
> >>>> > wrote:

> >>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I like
> >>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
> >>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
> >>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> >>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> >>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> >>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
> >>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
> >>>> brackets.

> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> >>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> >>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:

> >>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
> >>>> on...

> >>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> >>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
> >>>> easily.
> >>>> > Here's an example:

> >>>> > header {
> >>>> >  background_color '#eee'
> >>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> >>>> >  nav {
> >>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
> >>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> >>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> >>>> >  }
> >>>> >  div.search {
> >>>> >    float 'right'
> >>>> >  }
> >>>> > }

> >>>> > Output:

> >>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> >>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> >>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited {
> >>>> > color: blue; }
> >>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> >>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> >>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
> >>>> think
> >>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
> >>>> shortcomings.
> >>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like
> >>>> this?
> >>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> >>>> > Thanks.

> >>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
> >>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> >>>> > -Tim

> >>>> > --
> >>>> > John Hornbeck
> >>>> > Support Manager
> >>>> > Engine Yard
> >>>> > http://engineyard.com

> >>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> >>>> --
> >>>> John Hornbeck
> >>>> Support Manager
> >>>> Engine Yard
> >>>> http://engineyard.com

> >>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> The advantage to an external DSL is that you don't HAVE to know a lot of
> details about the hosting language to be able ti use the DSL.  While Tim's
> code is pretty slick, it suffers from a few issues, some easy to fix, others
> not.

> The first being because you don't inherit from a BlankSlate (or similar)
> base class, any method available on the Object class cannot be used as a
> selector name without using the s() method.  Try using the name 'id' as a
> selector.  As mentioned this is somewhat easier to fix by using BlankSlate
> or something similar to undefine all the default methods.

> The second is that you can't use any ruby keywords as selectors.  As long as
> you use instance_eval to run the raw code without doing any sort of parsing
> this will remain true.

> Obviously those aren't a big deal if you know Ruby, and are aware of the
> limitations.  But it does come with it's own set of "gotchas" that an
> external DSL doesn't have to worry about.

> All of that said, I've already forked this and look forward to tinkering
> with it!

> --Tanner Burson

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:

>> Let me clarify: CascadingRubies is an internal Ruby DSL -- not an
>> external interpreted one like Sass. Cuz I said that kinda funny.

>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:
>> > Thanks Joseph for that wonderful explanation. Yes, this library is a
>> > bonefied DSL, meaning the code is actual Ruby. Sass, on the other
>> > hand, is interpreted as it's own language. With the DSL approach, I'm
>> > able to mix in regular Ruby variables, require Ruby libraries, do
>> > color arithmetic, heck I could even pull CSS colors and font sizes out
>> > of my database and write them directly in my CSS file.

>> > As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason of
>> > all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to be
>> > less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a part
>> > of OneBody or another project someday.

>> > Thanks for your feedback!

>> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:

>> >> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

>> >> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com>
>> >> wrote:

>> >>> Fowler has the canonical definitions:
>> >>> http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

>> >>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
>> >>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a bit
>> >>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse the
>> >>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
>> >>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
>> >>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

>> >>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like data
>> >>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples: Ant, /etc/
>> >>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every markup
>> >>> language lies in here.

>> >>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

>> >>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
>> >>>> explain

>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten
>> >>>> <jos...@josephholsten.com
>> >>>> > wrote:

>> >>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason I
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an external
>> >>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass, but I'd
>> >>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

>> >>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

>> >>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

>> >>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  One
>> >>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
>> >>>> brackets.

>> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com>
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
>> >>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
>> >>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

>> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:

>> >>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
>> >>>> on...

>> >>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

>> >>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
>> >>>> easily.
>> >>>> > Here's an example:

>> >>>> > header {
>> >>>> >  background_color '#eee'
>> >>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
>> >>>> >  nav {
>> >>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
>> >>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
>> >>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
>> >>>> >  }
>> >>>> >  div.search {
>> >>>> >    float 'right'
>> >>>> >  }
>> >>>> > }

>> >>>> > Output:

>> >>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
>> >>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
>> >>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav a:visited
>> >>>> > {
>> >>>> > color: blue; }
>> >>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
>> >>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

>> >>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
>> >>>> think
>> >>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
>> >>>> shortcomings.
>> >>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something like
>> >>>> this?
>> >>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

>> >>>> > Thanks.

>> >>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that a good
>> >>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

>> >>>> > -Tim

>> >>>> > --
>> >>>> > John Hornbeck
>> >>>> > Support Manager
>> >>>> > Engine Yard
>> >>>> > http://engineyard.com

>> >>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard
>> >>>> > Feynman

>> >>>> --
>> >>>> John Hornbeck
>> >>>> Support Manager
>> >>>> Engine Yard
>> >>>> http://engineyard.com

>> >>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard Feynman

> --
> ===Tanner Burson===
> tanner.bur...@gmail.com
> http://www.tannerburson.com

> The advantage to an external DSL is that you don't HAVE to know a  
> lot of details about the hosting language to be able ti use the  
> DSL.  While Tim's code is pretty slick, it suffers from a few  
> issues, some easy to fix, others not.

> The first being because you don't inherit from a BlankSlate (or  
> similar) base class, any method available on the Object class cannot  
> be used as a selector name without using the s() method.  Try using  
> the name 'id' as a selector.  As mentioned this is somewhat easier  
> to fix by using BlankSlate or something similar to undefine all the  
> default methods.

> The second is that you can't use any ruby keywords as selectors.  As  
> long as you use instance_eval to run the raw code without doing any  
> sort of parsing this will remain true.

> Obviously those aren't a big deal if you know Ruby, and are aware of  
> the limitations.  But it does come with it's own set of "gotchas"  
> that an external DSL doesn't have to worry about.

> All of that said, I've already forked this and look forward to  
> tinkering with it!

> --Tanner Burson

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:

> Let me clarify: CascadingRubies is an internal Ruby DSL -- not an
> external interpreted one like Sass. Cuz I said that kinda funny.

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:
> > Thanks Joseph for that wonderful explanation. Yes, this library is a
> > bonefied DSL, meaning the code is actual Ruby. Sass, on the other
> > hand, is interpreted as it's own language. With the DSL approach,  
> I'm
> > able to mix in regular Ruby variables, require Ruby libraries, do
> > color arithmetic, heck I could even pull CSS colors and font sizes  
> out
> > of my database and write them directly in my CSS file.

> > As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason of
> > all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to be
> > less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a  
> part
> > of OneBody or another project someday.

> > Thanks for your feedback!

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck  
> <hornb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

> >> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> > wrote:

> >>> Fowler has the canonical definitions: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

> >>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
> >>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a  
> bit
> >>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse  
> the
> >>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
> >>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
> >>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

> >>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like  
> data
> >>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples:  
> Ant, /etc/
> >>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every  
> markup
> >>> language lies in here.

> >>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

> >>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
> >>>> explain

> >>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> >>>> > wrote:

> >>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason  
> I like
> >>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an  
> external
> >>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass,  
> but I'd
> >>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> >>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> >>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> >>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.  
> One
> >>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
> >>>> brackets.

> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com

> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> >>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> >>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:

> >>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
> >>>> on...

> >>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> >>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
> >>>> easily.
> >>>> > Here's an example:

> >>>> > header {
> >>>> >  background_color '#eee'
> >>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> >>>> >  nav {
> >>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
> >>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> >>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> >>>> >  }
> >>>> >  div.search {
> >>>> >    float 'right'
> >>>> >  }
> >>>> > }

> >>>> > Output:

> >>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> >>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> >>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav  
> a:visited {
> >>>> > color: blue; }
> >>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> >>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> >>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
> >>>> think
> >>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
> >>>> shortcomings.
> >>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something  
> like
> >>>> this?
> >>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> >>>> > Thanks.

> >>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that  
> a good
> >>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> >>>> > -Tim

> >>>> > --
> >>>> > John Hornbeck
> >>>> > Support Manager
> >>>> > Engine Yard
> >>>> > http://engineyard.com

> >>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard  
> Feynman

> >>>> --
> >>>> John Hornbeck
> >>>> Support Manager
> >>>> Engine Yard
> >>>> http://engineyard.com

> >>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard  
> Feynman

> --
> ===Tanner Burson===
> tanner.bur...@gmail.com
> http://www.tannerburson.com

> That's a great point, and I'm sure there's a bunch of other standard
> internal DSL issues that I don't even know to check for. I'm kinda
> amazed there isn't a 'Building DSLs in Ruby' book.
> has anyone gone through this:

> http://obiefernandez.com/presentations/obie_fernandez-agile_dsl_devel...
> Seems like cascading rubies is a straightforward instatiation dsl, but
> there's some other nifty examples in there too. I also learned some
> tricks from:
>        http://www.scribd.com/doc/12709855/Advanced-DSLs-in-Ruby
> esp, const factories, instance_eval'ing, the fuzzy line between
> internal & external. Neal ford seems to have quite a few good presos
> on dsls if you need some google fu.

> On Jun 3, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Tanner Burson wrote:

> > Personally I dislike all the crazy CSS DSLs, and I actually tend to
> > use some simple ERB templates to generate CSS instead of a full
> > blown CSS DSL.  But o stand up in defense of SASS.

> > The advantage to an external DSL is that you don't HAVE to know a
> > lot of details about the hosting language to be able ti use the
> > DSL.  While Tim's code is pretty slick, it suffers from a few
> > issues, some easy to fix, others not.

> > The first being because you don't inherit from a BlankSlate (or
> > similar) base class, any method available on the Object class cannot
> > be used as a selector name without using the s() method.  Try using
> > the name 'id' as a selector.  As mentioned this is somewhat easier
> > to fix by using BlankSlate or something similar to undefine all the
> > default methods.

> > The second is that you can't use any ruby keywords as selectors.  As
> > long as you use instance_eval to run the raw code without doing any
> > sort of parsing this will remain true.

> > Obviously those aren't a big deal if you know Ruby, and are aware of
> > the limitations.  But it does come with it's own set of "gotchas"
> > that an external DSL doesn't have to worry about.

> > All of that said, I've already forked this and look forward to
> > tinkering with it!

> > --Tanner Burson

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:

> > Let me clarify: CascadingRubies is an internal Ruby DSL -- not an
> > external interpreted one like Sass. Cuz I said that kinda funny.

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org> wrote:
> > > Thanks Joseph for that wonderful explanation. Yes, this library is a
> > > bonefied DSL, meaning the code is actual Ruby. Sass, on the other
> > > hand, is interpreted as it's own language. With the DSL approach,
> > I'm
> > > able to mix in regular Ruby variables, require Ruby libraries, do
> > > color arithmetic, heck I could even pull CSS colors and font sizes
> > out
> > > of my database and write them directly in my CSS file.

> > > As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason of
> > > all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to be
> > > less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a
> > part
> > > of OneBody or another project someday.

> > > Thanks for your feedback!

> > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck
> > <hornb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

> > >> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <
> jos...@josephholsten.com
> > > wrote:

> > >>> Fowler has the canonical definitions:
> http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

> > >>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely within a
> > >>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a
> > bit
> > >>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse
> > the
> > >>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
> > >>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile, macports
> > >>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

> > >>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like
> > data
> > >>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples:
> > Ant, /etc/
> > >>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every
> > markup
> > >>> language lies in here.

> > >>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

> > >>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external dsl.  Do
> > >>>> explain

> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <
> jos...@josephholsten.com
> > >>>> > wrote:

> > >>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason
> > I like
> > >>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an
> > external
> > >>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass,
> > but I'd
> > >>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> > >>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> > >>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> > >>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.
> > One
> > >>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
> > >>>> brackets.

> > >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <
> hornb...@gmail.com

> > >>>> > wrote:
> > >>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of your
> > >>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> > >>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

> > >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:

> > >>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some feedback
> > >>>> on...

> > >>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> > >>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS fairly
> > >>>> easily.
> > >>>> > Here's an example:

> > >>>> > header {
> > >>>> >  background_color '#eee'
> > >>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> > >>>> >  nav {
> > >>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
> > >>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> > >>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> > >>>> >  }
> > >>>> >  div.search {
> > >>>> >    float 'right'
> > >>>> >  }
> > >>>> > }

> > >>>> > Output:

> > >>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav
> > a:visited {
> > >>>> > color: blue; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> > >>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> > >>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be something I
> > >>>> think
> > >>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
> > >>>> shortcomings.
> > >>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something
> > like
> > >>>> this?
> > >>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> > >>>> > Thanks.

> > >>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that
> > a good
> > >>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> > >>>> > -Tim

> > >>>> > --
> > >>>> > John Hornbeck
> > >>>> > Support Manager
> > >>>> > Engine Yard
> > >>>> > http://engineyard.com

> > >>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard
> > Feynman

> > >>>> --
> > >>>> John Hornbeck
> > >>>> Support Manager
> > >>>> Engine Yard
> > >>>> http://engineyard.com

> > >>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard
> > Feynman

> > --
> > ===Tanner Burson===
> > tanner.bur...@gmail.com
> > http://www.tannerburson.com

> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 1:33 AM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> > wrote:

> That's a great point, and I'm sure there's a bunch of other standard
> internal DSL issues that I don't even know to check for. I'm kinda
> amazed there isn't a 'Building DSLs in Ruby' book.
> has anyone gone through this:
>        http://obiefernandez.com/presentations/obie_fernandez-agile_dsl_devel...
> Seems like cascading rubies is a straightforward instatiation dsl, but
> there's some other nifty examples in there too. I also learned some
> tricks from:
>        http://www.scribd.com/doc/12709855/Advanced-DSLs-in-Ruby
> esp, const factories, instance_eval'ing, the fuzzy line between
> internal & external. Neal ford seems to have quite a few good presos
> on dsls if you need some google fu.

> On Jun 3, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Tanner Burson wrote:

> > Personally I dislike all the crazy CSS DSLs, and I actually tend to
> > use some simple ERB templates to generate CSS instead of a full
> > blown CSS DSL.  But o stand up in defense of SASS.

> > The advantage to an external DSL is that you don't HAVE to know a
> > lot of details about the hosting language to be able ti use the
> > DSL.  While Tim's code is pretty slick, it suffers from a few
> > issues, some easy to fix, others not.

> > The first being because you don't inherit from a BlankSlate (or
> > similar) base class, any method available on the Object class cannot
> > be used as a selector name without using the s() method.  Try using
> > the name 'id' as a selector.  As mentioned this is somewhat easier
> > to fix by using BlankSlate or something similar to undefine all the
> > default methods.

> > The second is that you can't use any ruby keywords as selectors.  As
> > long as you use instance_eval to run the raw code without doing any
> > sort of parsing this will remain true.

> > Obviously those aren't a big deal if you know Ruby, and are aware of
> > the limitations.  But it does come with it's own set of "gotchas"
> > that an external DSL doesn't have to worry about.

> > All of that said, I've already forked this and look forward to
> > tinkering with it!

> > --Tanner Burson

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org>  
> wrote:

> > Let me clarify: CascadingRubies is an internal Ruby DSL -- not an
> > external interpreted one like Sass. Cuz I said that kinda funny.

> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Tim Morgan <t...@timmorgan.org>  
> wrote:
> > > Thanks Joseph for that wonderful explanation. Yes, this library  
> is a
> > > bonefied DSL, meaning the code is actual Ruby. Sass, on the other
> > > hand, is interpreted as it's own language. With the DSL approach,
> > I'm
> > > able to mix in regular Ruby variables, require Ruby libraries, do
> > > color arithmetic, heck I could even pull CSS colors and font sizes
> > out
> > > of my database and write them directly in my CSS file.

> > > As for why I did it... because I can. Isn't that the best reason  
> of
> > > all? :-) No really, it was just an experiment, and turned out to  
> be
> > > less than 100 lines of code. And I figure it might be useful as a
> > part
> > > of OneBody or another project someday.

> > > Thanks for your feedback!

> > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, John Hornbeck
> > <hornb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> Ahh, makes sense now :-)

> > >> On Wednesday, June 3, 2009, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> > > wrote:

> > >>> Fowler has the canonical definitions: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DomainSpecificLanguage.html

> > >>> Internal dsls implement domain specific features entirely  
> within a
> > >>> host language. Think of them more like code than data. They're a
> > bit
> > >>> like tricked out libraries. They use the host language to parse
> > the
> > >>> dsl. They're quite popular in with TCL, lisp and ruby. examples:
> > >>> markaby, rails (esp migrations), rake, emacs lisp, guile,  
> macports
> > >>> portfiles, .exrc, .shrc.

> > >>> External dsls require a custom parser. Think of them more like
> > data
> > >>> than code. They're popular with unix, .net, java. examples:
> > Ant, /etc/
> > >>> passwd, csv, vcard, yaml configs, xml configs. Arguably every
> > markup
> > >>> language lies in here.

> > >>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:12 PM, John Hornbeck wrote:

> > >>>> I'm not following what you mean by internal vs. external  
> dsl.  Do
> > >>>> explain

> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Joseph A Holsten <jos...@josephholsten.com
> > >>>> > wrote:

> > >>>> I think I like the spirit of this over SASS for the same reason
> > I like
> > >>>> markaby/builder over haml. It's a ruby internal dsl, not an
> > external
> > >>>> dsl with a new syntax. Clearly it's not as complete as sass,
> > but I'd
> > >>>> feel more at home extending this to do crazy stuff.

> > >>>> Justin: there's always do ... end; :)

> > >>>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Justin Richter wrote:

> > >>>> > It looks simple enough, but I have to echo Hornbeck's post.
> > One
> > >>>> > thing I like about SASS is that you don't have to use curly
> > >>>> brackets.

> > >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:09 PM, John Hornbeck <hornb...@gmail.com

> > >>>> > wrote:
> > >>>> > do you see an advantage of this over SASS? Just curious of  
> your
> > >>>> > reasoning behind doing it yourself as opposed to using a very
> > >>>> > popular library that already does something like this.

> > >>>> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Tim Morgan <seve...@gmail.com

> > >>>> wrote:

> > >>>> > I just put some code up on GitHub I'd like to get some  
> feedback
> > >>>> on...

> > >>>> > http://github.com/seven1m/cascading_rubies

> > >>>> > Basically, it's a Ruby DSL that allows you to write CSS  
> fairly
> > >>>> easily.
> > >>>> > Here's an example:

> > >>>> > header {
> > >>>> >  background_color '#eee'
> > >>>> >  margin_bottom '10px'
> > >>>> >  nav {
> > >>>> >    border '1px solid #000'
> > >>>> >    a(:link, :active, :visited) { color 'blue' }
> > >>>> >    a(:hover) { color 'red' }
> > >>>> >  }
> > >>>> >  div.search {
> > >>>> >    float 'right'
> > >>>> >  }
> > >>>> > }

> > >>>> > Output:

> > >>>> > #header { background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 10px; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav { border: 1px solid #000; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav a:link, #header #nav a:active, #header #nav
> > a:visited {
> > >>>> > color: blue; }
> > >>>> > #header #nav a:hover { color: red; }
> > >>>> > #header div.search { float: right; }

> > >>>> > This started as an experiment, and turned out to be  
> something I
> > >>>> think
> > >>>> > could be useful. Of course, there are some (documented)
> > >>>> shortcomings.
> > >>>> > Just wondering what you guys think. Would you use something
> > like
> > >>>> this?
> > >>>> > Does it need a Rails plugin?

> > >>>> > Thanks.

> > >>>> > Oh and BTW, we have a meeting planned for June 15th. Is that
> > a good
> > >>>> > date for everyone? Any ideas for presentations?

> > >>>> > -Tim

> > >>>> > --
> > >>>> > John Hornbeck
> > >>>> > Support Manager
> > >>>> > Engine Yard
> > >>>> > http://engineyard.com

> > >>>> > “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard
> > Feynman

> > >>>> --
> > >>>> John Hornbeck
> > >>>> Support Manager
> > >>>> Engine Yard
> > >>>> http://engineyard.com

> > >>>> “Work hard to find something that fascinates you.” - Richard
> > Feynman

> > --
> > ===Tanner Burson===
> > tanner.bur...@gmail.com
> > http://www.tannerburson.com

> --
> ===Tanner Burson===
> tanner.bur...@gmail.com
> http://www.tannerburson.com