Why no contact info for group officers on trinug website?
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david wendelken
Jun 23, 2009, 4:40:51 PM6/23/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
Why is there no contact info for the officers on the Trinug web site?
david wendelken
Jul 7, 2009, 11:09:08 AM7/7/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
On Jun 23, 4:40 pm, david wendelken <david_wendel...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Why is there no contact info for the officers on the Trinug web site?
Could the group officers provide an explanation?
Dug Wilson
Jul 8, 2009, 10:58:20 AM7/8/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
Contact is typically handled via folks getting in touch with Greg via
the newsletter.
What need do you have that isn't being addressed by the current setup?
the newsletter.
What need do you have that isn't being addressed by the current setup?
david wendelken
Jul 9, 2009, 8:57:48 AM7/9/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
>
> What need do you have that isn't being addressed by the current setup?
>
The last few times I've tried to get information, it's taken an
> What need do you have that isn't being addressed by the current setup?
>
average of over a week to get a response.
I could try asking my questions in person when I get to the next
meeting, but I won't know who to ask about stuff because I won't know
who the officers are. Not even their names are listed on the
website. I won't even know what officers there are, because not even
the titles of the officers are listed.
As for questions, here are a few:
1) All mention of the September code camp appears to have disappeared
from the Trinug website. Has it been cancelled?
2) Who do I contact to find out about having the company I work for
become a sponsor for the code camp?
3) Who do I volunteer to about speaking at a meeting? The next 5
meetings are all TBD for speakers, so you don't appear overwhelmed
with volunteers at the moment.
My point is, I shouldn't have to work hard to find these things out.
They should be dirt obvious on the group's website. Every barrier
added to the process of finding out this info means fewer people
participating in that activity.
FYI, those are real questions I need answers to.
James Avery
Jul 9, 2009, 9:11:14 AM7/9/09
to tri...@googlegroups.com
David,
I am not a director of the group but I would like to remind you that all of the directors are volunteers who are taking time away from their job or family to contribute to the development of the site and planning of the group and code camps. Your tone and attitude are totally out of line with this fact. If you want results perhaps you should adjust that first and then you might find people much more receptive to your suggestions.
-James
Michael Kimsal
Jul 9, 2009, 9:28:39 AM7/9/09
to tri...@googlegroups.com
Hrm...
I could certainly see how the email could be interpreted as 'out of
line' or even 'hostile', but I chose not to read it with that tone.
Email's a bugger because it's easy to read in tones that weren't
intended by the author. I was reading in more tones of frustration
rather than admonition or criticism (though there's a fine line
between all of those, to be sure).
I also 100% understand that people are volunteering time, and it's
appreciated (I loved last October's code camp!)
What's missing is a way to contact group members outside of this
mailing list to ask these sorts of questions. Asking to the group
ends up looking like there's an active criticism going on, and I'm not
sure that was intended.
I suspect the original author's frustrations are shared by others who
visit the site and do not always find what they're looking for. I've
had some of the same questions, and others over the last year or so,
but when I can't find what I need on the site, I get distracted and
then don't get as involved.
While the tone of the email may have come across harsher than it was
intended, I ask the volunteers in the group to not overlook the gist
of the email - there's some work than can be done on the website to
help more visitors find what they need.
The one immediate win I'd suggest would be to fix the 'about' link -
it's a "403" right now, so there's no way anyone can even read the
background (and presumably contact info) of the group. If given
access to the server and the raw information, I'll volunteer to update
this information.
--
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
919.827.4724
I could certainly see how the email could be interpreted as 'out of
line' or even 'hostile', but I chose not to read it with that tone.
Email's a bugger because it's easy to read in tones that weren't
intended by the author. I was reading in more tones of frustration
rather than admonition or criticism (though there's a fine line
between all of those, to be sure).
I also 100% understand that people are volunteering time, and it's
appreciated (I loved last October's code camp!)
What's missing is a way to contact group members outside of this
mailing list to ask these sorts of questions. Asking to the group
ends up looking like there's an active criticism going on, and I'm not
sure that was intended.
I suspect the original author's frustrations are shared by others who
visit the site and do not always find what they're looking for. I've
had some of the same questions, and others over the last year or so,
but when I can't find what I need on the site, I get distracted and
then don't get as involved.
While the tone of the email may have come across harsher than it was
intended, I ask the volunteers in the group to not overlook the gist
of the email - there's some work than can be done on the website to
help more visitors find what they need.
The one immediate win I'd suggest would be to fix the 'about' link -
it's a "403" right now, so there's no way anyone can even read the
background (and presumably contact info) of the group. If given
access to the server and the raw information, I'll volunteer to update
this information.
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
919.827.4724
James Avery
Jul 9, 2009, 9:38:52 AM7/9/09
to tri...@googlegroups.com
Michael,
I totally agree with you and I think your email is a perfect example of how to go about making constructive suggestions; offering to help and volunteer makes it even better. :)
-James
david wendelken
Jul 9, 2009, 2:54:02 PM7/9/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
I'm sorry if my message was construed as being hostile. It wasn't
intended to be.
It was a simple statement of fact. I asked that question two weeks
ago and I had received no response. So I asked again because I wanted
an answer.
Given that I've been trying to volunteer and I'm having to work hard
to find who to volunteer to, it hardly seems fair to critize me for
not volunteering... :)
If the information I've been trying to get was easily available, those
officers who volunteered might find that more people would volunteer
too!
I will admit it is frustrating that it's taking weeks to find out that
information. :)
There are lots of reasons people might want to volunteer privately or
communicate an idea privately. Shyness, inexperience, and being
unsure whether the group would be interested in their topic or idea
are just a few. Not wanting to volunteer until knowing more about it
is another.
I could have just given up quietly and gone away without helping out
instead of fighting to get the info I need to efficiently volunteer.
Volunteers have to take time away from Real Life(TM) to volunteer and
do the work the volunteer for. Let's at least, as a group, make it
easy to do the first part.
And, to make sure that this is viewed constructively, I'll repeat the
following questions that I would like to direct to the correct
officer:
>
> 1) All mention of the September code camp appears to have disappeared
> from the Trinug website. Has it been cancelled?
>
My purpose in asking is to volunteer to speak. I have colleagues at
work also interested in presenting. I was told to monitor the code
camp website and wait for it to accept volunteers. Now it's not
linked from the trinug website, so I can't efficiently do that. I'll
have to search around for it - again. If it's a go, shouldn't it be
listed as an upcoming meeting? Even as a link to another website?
> 2) Who do I contact to find out about having the company I work for
> become a sponsor for the code camp?
>
I might be able to convince the company I work for to be a sponsor if
I can get the right sort of info. Or not.
I was hoping to get the info I need before I go on 2 weeks vacation
because it can take time to work this type of thing thru the
management the first time around. Now, instead of having part of June
and all of July and August to work that process, I'll only have
August. That just cut the odds of it happening by 75% because I won't
be working at the same site as my management in August, so I won't be
able to work the process as easily or as well.
> 3) Who do I volunteer to about speaking at a meeting? The next 5
> meetings are all TBD for speakers, so you don't appear overwhelmed
> with volunteers at the moment.
I will have a number of questions to ask them as I'm not familiar with
the site, the time alloted to the presenter, facilities available,
etc. I haven't been to the new site, I was deployed out of the
country for over a year. It's a much more efficient use of my time,
and the speaker coordinator, to just ask and answer these over the
phone. Or put them in a FAQ on the website... :)
The following was, and is, intended to be constructive criticism.
> My point is, I shouldn't have to work hard to find these things out.
> They should be dirt obvious on the group's website. Every barrier
> added to the process of finding out this info means fewer people
> participating in that activity.
If I knew who to send that observation to personally, I would have
done just that. If I knew the names of the officers or even their
titles, I could post an In Search Of message direct to them on the
message board.
FYI, I've served multiple terms on the board of directors of two
international user groups and been the editor or a contributing editor
of two international user group publications. I've published articles
and presented a whole lot over the last 20 years. (I quit counting at
100.) I've done so with multiple user groups in multiple countries.
I'm a moderator on asp.net.
(And now, instead of that being a privately made comment about my
qualifications to present made only to the speaker coordinator, I'm
sure someone will think I'm being egotistical for saying it in
public. :( )
This is the only time I've had to work so hard to find the right
people to contact in a user group.
I make the above statements of fact to solely to establish the
following:
1) that I'm not a do-nothing loafer in user groups,
2) I have enough varied experience with user groups to have a
reasonable expectations, and
3) To lay out the problem as I see it. There was some kind of funky
send message thing on the about page, but it wasn't working earlier.
There is no efficient way to know who the group officers are, nor to
direct a private inquiry to them about the group.
To my mind, this is the simple process that should be followed:
1) go to web site
2) find officer list
3) find correct officer
4) phone or email them with issue
5) await response.
Steps 1-4 should take no more than a minute.
Instead, we have this process:
1) go to web site
2) search web site repeatedly for info that is not there.
3) go to google groups.
4) sign up to google groups.
5) sign up to trinug google groups.
6) post a general message trying to contact the right person.
7) wait for moderator to approve the post.
8) search web page or google-groups to find the group name because you
forgot to book mark it the first time.
9) wait for right person to read the post and respond with contact
info.
10) contact right person with issue.
11) await response.
Steps 1-10 seem way more complicated to me. It also takes a lot
longer. It also takes more effort on the part of the officers,
because two officers had to get involved (the moderator and the
correct responder) instead of just one, and they had to send an extra
message to get me their contact info.
And, of course, justifying all this has taken more time than just
being able to contact all the relevant officers directly and ask them
my questions. :(
I hope that better explains why I'm asking.
intended to be.
It was a simple statement of fact. I asked that question two weeks
ago and I had received no response. So I asked again because I wanted
an answer.
Given that I've been trying to volunteer and I'm having to work hard
to find who to volunteer to, it hardly seems fair to critize me for
not volunteering... :)
If the information I've been trying to get was easily available, those
officers who volunteered might find that more people would volunteer
too!
I will admit it is frustrating that it's taking weeks to find out that
information. :)
There are lots of reasons people might want to volunteer privately or
communicate an idea privately. Shyness, inexperience, and being
unsure whether the group would be interested in their topic or idea
are just a few. Not wanting to volunteer until knowing more about it
is another.
I could have just given up quietly and gone away without helping out
instead of fighting to get the info I need to efficiently volunteer.
Volunteers have to take time away from Real Life(TM) to volunteer and
do the work the volunteer for. Let's at least, as a group, make it
easy to do the first part.
And, to make sure that this is viewed constructively, I'll repeat the
following questions that I would like to direct to the correct
officer:
>
> 1) All mention of the September code camp appears to have disappeared
> from the Trinug website. Has it been cancelled?
>
work also interested in presenting. I was told to monitor the code
camp website and wait for it to accept volunteers. Now it's not
linked from the trinug website, so I can't efficiently do that. I'll
have to search around for it - again. If it's a go, shouldn't it be
listed as an upcoming meeting? Even as a link to another website?
> 2) Who do I contact to find out about having the company I work for
> become a sponsor for the code camp?
>
I can get the right sort of info. Or not.
I was hoping to get the info I need before I go on 2 weeks vacation
because it can take time to work this type of thing thru the
management the first time around. Now, instead of having part of June
and all of July and August to work that process, I'll only have
August. That just cut the odds of it happening by 75% because I won't
be working at the same site as my management in August, so I won't be
able to work the process as easily or as well.
> 3) Who do I volunteer to about speaking at a meeting? The next 5
> meetings are all TBD for speakers, so you don't appear overwhelmed
> with volunteers at the moment.
the site, the time alloted to the presenter, facilities available,
etc. I haven't been to the new site, I was deployed out of the
country for over a year. It's a much more efficient use of my time,
and the speaker coordinator, to just ask and answer these over the
phone. Or put them in a FAQ on the website... :)
The following was, and is, intended to be constructive criticism.
> My point is, I shouldn't have to work hard to find these things out.
> They should be dirt obvious on the group's website. Every barrier
> added to the process of finding out this info means fewer people
> participating in that activity.
done just that. If I knew the names of the officers or even their
titles, I could post an In Search Of message direct to them on the
message board.
FYI, I've served multiple terms on the board of directors of two
international user groups and been the editor or a contributing editor
of two international user group publications. I've published articles
and presented a whole lot over the last 20 years. (I quit counting at
100.) I've done so with multiple user groups in multiple countries.
I'm a moderator on asp.net.
(And now, instead of that being a privately made comment about my
qualifications to present made only to the speaker coordinator, I'm
sure someone will think I'm being egotistical for saying it in
public. :( )
This is the only time I've had to work so hard to find the right
people to contact in a user group.
I make the above statements of fact to solely to establish the
following:
1) that I'm not a do-nothing loafer in user groups,
2) I have enough varied experience with user groups to have a
reasonable expectations, and
3) To lay out the problem as I see it. There was some kind of funky
send message thing on the about page, but it wasn't working earlier.
There is no efficient way to know who the group officers are, nor to
direct a private inquiry to them about the group.
To my mind, this is the simple process that should be followed:
1) go to web site
2) find officer list
3) find correct officer
4) phone or email them with issue
5) await response.
Steps 1-4 should take no more than a minute.
Instead, we have this process:
1) go to web site
2) search web site repeatedly for info that is not there.
3) go to google groups.
4) sign up to google groups.
5) sign up to trinug google groups.
6) post a general message trying to contact the right person.
7) wait for moderator to approve the post.
8) search web page or google-groups to find the group name because you
forgot to book mark it the first time.
9) wait for right person to read the post and respond with contact
info.
10) contact right person with issue.
11) await response.
Steps 1-10 seem way more complicated to me. It also takes a lot
longer. It also takes more effort on the part of the officers,
because two officers had to get involved (the moderator and the
correct responder) instead of just one, and they had to send an extra
message to get me their contact info.
And, of course, justifying all this has taken more time than just
being able to contact all the relevant officers directly and ask them
my questions. :(
I hope that better explains why I'm asking.
Dug Wilson
Jul 9, 2009, 3:47:12 PM7/9/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
David,
I'm not sure why you're going through all those steps when you already
have contact info for both Greg and myself, both of which would have
happily helped you get what you need. The reason this post lagged
initially was because I thought you already had the contact info you
needed once you and I hooked up through Greg. That said, I think
adding contact info to the web site is a necessary step, and one that
will happen once the site issues are resolved (a wonderful
coincidence, there).
Best,
Dug
I'm not sure why you're going through all those steps when you already
have contact info for both Greg and myself, both of which would have
happily helped you get what you need. The reason this post lagged
initially was because I thought you already had the contact info you
needed once you and I hooked up through Greg. That said, I think
adding contact info to the web site is a necessary step, and one that
will happen once the site issues are resolved (a wonderful
coincidence, there).
Best,
Dug
david wendelken
Jul 9, 2009, 4:12:28 PM7/9/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
> I'm not sure why you're going through all those steps when you already
> have contact info for both Greg and myself, both of which would have
> happily helped you get what you need.
I know that you are in charge of the code camp speakers and Greg sends
> have contact info for both Greg and myself, both of which would have
> happily helped you get what you need.
out the newsletters, that's all.
I hate to bother folks who don't have the responsibility for an area
because, as mentioned by another poster, they are volunteers and we
should be respectful of their time.
And, of course, others will need this info too.
Thanks for getting it added to the site soon! Ditto for the Code Camp
info!
I look forward to meeting you at the August meeting.
david wendelken
Jul 10, 2009, 10:40:54 AM7/10/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
Oh, and I do still need to know the answers to my 3 questions... :)
Dug Wilson
Jul 10, 2009, 9:42:07 PM7/10/09
to Triangle .NET Users Group
1) All mention of the September code camp appears to have disappeared
from the Trinug website. Has it been cancelled?
The website got nuked. The Code Camp is still on for Sept 19th.
from the Trinug website. Has it been cancelled?
2) Who do I contact to find out about having the company I work for
become a sponsor for the code camp?
3) Who do I volunteer to about speaking at a meeting? The next 5
meetings are all TBD for speakers, so you don't appear overwhelmed
with volunteers at the moment.
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