I value your suggestions, so please chime in if you have first hand
knowledge. I have read reviews & forums online, so I'm looking for
experience from folks I know. I'd love to hear from someone who can tell
me if this makes any sense. _____
Brandan crashed his bike in a pothole at the MS 150 this fall and needs a
new front wheel. Since I was considering getting something a little more
aero for my bike, I'm thinking about giving him the front wheel from my P2C.
My original equipment wheels are a decent set of Shimano, with an aero
profile and flat spokes. I'm not going to be running at 20 mph, but would
like to do something to reduce drag &/or improve rolling resistance. even
if I don't' save lots of time, I'd like to have a little more energy at T2.
But, I'm not interested in wasting money on a wheel that doesn't perform any
better than what came with the bike.
THANKS,
John
_____
1. Will I actually get any benefit from a new wheel like a Hed 3? At my
body weight, I'm thinking that a disk would have performance issues in wind
that might offset aero advantages. I'm also considering clincher, not
tubular. Do any of you run tubulars &/or see a major advantage for someone
my size.
2. Does it make any sense to just get a front wheel, or should I be
getting the rear first anyway?
3. Mike, you recently got new wheels. Did you replace a rigid spoke
wheel like the Hed with something else. I thought you mentioned problems
with truing.
4. Kyle, I thought that you sold your Hed wheels too. But was that
because they were tubulars? Otherwise, did you like the performance?
5. Phillip, did you get Kyle's wheels or Shaeffer's?
I don't intend to spend $2K on a set of wheels, but would consider a new
front wheel, particularly if I it makes sense to look for something on
e-bay.
John, Andrew Morehead had some sweet aluminum deep-v race wheels on his bike
(before somebody else decided they needed it more) that were incredibly
affordable. I dunno what brand they were. Anyway, my thoughts below..
_____
From: John Lennox [mailto:jcln...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:33 AM
To: tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
I value your suggestions, so please chime in if you have first hand
knowledge. I have read reviews & forums online, so I'm looking for
experience from folks I know. I'd love to hear from someone who can tell
me if this makes any sense.
_____
Brandan crashed his bike in a pothole at the MS 150 this fall and needs a
new front wheel. Since I was considering getting something a little more
aero for my bike, I'm thinking about giving him the front wheel from my P2C.
My original equipment wheels are a decent set of Shimano, with an aero
profile and flat spokes. I'm not going to be running at 20 mph, but would
like to do something to reduce drag &/or improve rolling resistance. even
if I don't' save lots of time, I'd like to have a little more energy at T2.
But, I'm not interested in wasting money on a wheel that doesn't perform any
better than what came with the bike.
THANKS,
John
_____
1. Will I actually get any benefit from a new wheel like a Hed 3? Hell,
yeah! More aero means less energy regardless of what speed you're going.
You say you won't be running 20 mph, but you do some of the time I'm sure,
and it'll help at lower speeds too (other than climbing pace). Hed 3's are
heavy race wheels though and you feel it when you accelerate. At my body
weight, I'm thinking that a disk would have performance issues in wind that
might offset aero advantages. Only if you put the disc in the front, which
nobody does thanks to Greg Lemond crushing Laurent Fignon at the TdF back
in (circa) 1990. With the disc in the rear you have your weight on it, so
it's not flimsy like the front could be. I have never felt the slightest
twitch from wind on my rear disc. I'm also considering clincher, not
tubular. Do any of you run tubulars &/or see a major advantage for someone
my size. I don't think it's a matter of size. You can find arguments for
both types of tires all over www.slowtwitch.com <http://www.slowtwitch.com/>
. I run tubulars on race wheels and clinchers for training. Clinchers are
no brainers to repair on the fly, but tubulars aren't bad either now that
Tufo has a tape product that beats the old-school glue. Tubulars are
supposed to be less prone to flats. Haven't had one yet on mine, so I guess
so. FWIW, the pros still seem to be pro-tubular.
2. Does it make any sense to just get a front wheel, or should I be
getting the rear first anyway? Sure. The front wheel is the one splitting
the air in front of you. And it's a whole lot easier to change out.
Cheaper too.
3. Mike, you recently got new wheels. Did you replace a rigid spoke
wheel like the Hed with something else. I thought you mentioned problems
with truing.
4. Kyle, I thought that you sold your Hed wheels too. But was that
because they were tubulars? Otherwise, did you like the performance?
5. Phillip, did you get Kyle's wheels or Shaeffer's? His Renn disc
was mine, and was Schaeffer's before that. I guess it's kind of like the
team ho - we've all had a turn on her! But if you want a disc and don't
want to spend a fortune, Renn is the way to go. Very affordable (about $500
retail) and good quality. They now make front aero wheels as well.
I don't intend to spend $2K on a set of wheels, but would consider a new
front wheel, particularly if I it makes sense to look for something on
e-bay.
-- -----newsgroup footer------------
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If your looking for a good value at a good price, the Easton Vista's that came with my stock Cervelo have been absolutely "bomb proof". After I bought my QRoo last year, I transferred them to the new bike. I can't say enough good things about them. Light, durable, aero and the wheel set retails for less than $250 I think. Probably even cheaper if you go on e-bay). 3 seasons of pretty rough riding and a couple of spills, and I've only had to true them once. Bert's got a pair as well. Come to think of it, he started kicking butt around the same time he got them!
________________________________
From: Bruce and Angie [thechromed...@suddenlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:00 AM
To: 'John Lennox'; tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
John, Andrew Morehead had some sweet aluminum deep-v race wheels on his bike (before somebody else decided they needed it more) that were incredibly affordable. I dunno what brand they were. Anyway, my thoughts below….
________________________________
From: John Lennox [mailto:jcln...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:33 AM
To: tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
I value your suggestions, so please chime in if you have first hand knowledge. I have read reviews & forums online, so I'm looking for experience from folks I know. I'd love to hear from someone who can tell me if this makes any sense.
________________________________
Brandan crashed his bike in a pothole at the MS 150 this fall and needs a new front wheel. Since I was considering getting something a little more aero for my bike, I'm thinking about giving him the front wheel from my P2C.
My original equipment wheels are a decent set of Shimano, with an aero profile and flat spokes. I'm not going to be running at 20 mph, but would like to do something to reduce drag &/or improve rolling resistance. even if I don't' save lots of time, I'd like to have a little more energy at T2. But, I'm not interested in wasting money on a wheel that doesn't perform any better than what came with the bike.
THANKS,
John
________________________________
1. Will I actually get any benefit from a new wheel like a Hed 3? Hell, yeah! More aero means less energy regardless of what speed you’re going. You say you won’t be running 20 mph, but you do some of the time I’m sure, and it’ll help at lower speeds too (other than climbing pace). Hed 3’s are heavy race wheels though and you feel it when you accelerate. At my body weight, I'm thinking that a disk would have performance issues in wind that might offset aero advantages. Only if you put the disc in the front, which nobody does thanks to Greg Lemond crushing Laurent Fignon at the TdF back in (circa) 1990. With the disc in the rear you have your weight on it, so it’s not flimsy like the front could be. I have never felt the slightest twitch from wind on my rear disc. I'm also considering clincher, not tubular. Do any of you run tubulars &/or see a major advantage for someone my size. I don’t think it’s a matter of size. You can find arguments for both types of tires all over www.slowtwitch.com<http://www.slowtwitch.com/>. I run tubulars on race wheels and clinchers for training. Clinchers are no brainers to repair on the fly, but tubulars aren’t bad either now that Tufo has a tape product that beats the old-school glue. Tubulars are supposed to be less prone to flats. Haven’t had one yet on mine, so I guess so. FWIW, the pros still seem to be pro-tubular.
2. Does it make any sense to just get a front wheel, or should I be getting the rear first anyway? Sure. The front wheel is the one splitting the air in front of you. And it’s a whole lot easier to change out. Cheaper too.
3. Mike, you recently got new wheels. Did you replace a rigid spoke wheel like the Hed with something else. I thought you mentioned problems with truing.
4. Kyle, I thought that you sold your Hed wheels too. But was that because they were tubulars? Otherwise, did you like the performance?
5. Phillip, did you get Kyle's wheels or Shaeffer's? His Renn disc was mine, and was Schaeffer’s before that. I guess it’s kind of like the team ho – we’ve all had a turn on her! But if you want a disc and don’t want to spend a fortune, Renn is the way to go. Very affordable (about $500 retail) and good quality. They now make front aero wheels as well.
I don't intend to spend $2K on a set of wheels, but would consider a new front wheel, particularly if I it makes sense to look for something on e-bay.
--
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________________________________
This e-mail is for the intended recipient only.
If you have received it by mistake please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited.
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This is a very complex question, and I will try and distill what I have learned from the HED site and other wheel building sites.
1. Weight is overrated unless you are climbing a lot, or accelerating a lot (i.e. Lots of corners and stops), you are better off improving aero properties so long as you aren't paying a significant price in weight in the rim.
2. Matching rim width and tire width (and using the right pressure) makes a bigger difference than the rolling resistance difference commonly cited in the tubular vs. clincher debate. As Bruce pointed out, for years the stereotype was that clinchers were faster to change but had higher rolling resistance. The data I have seen shows that (at the appropriate pressure for each) good tubulars and clinchers are nearly the same in rolling resistance. I find it easier to change clinchers and prefer the less grabby feel of aluminum rims vs. carbon, and here in the flat use the heavier aluminum rimmed clinchers. I also liked the ability to true and round more durable aluminum rims and was willing to pay a small aero and weight price for that.
3. Faster riders (like Bruce) have a lower effective yaw angle (the angle of wind coming into the wheel) because their higher speed moves the air past them in a straighter line. For slower riders (you and I for example), the advantage of the deeper wheels is less apparent because we ride more often with a greater yaw angle. (Note that the one area where the H3D's have an advantage is at greater yaw angles.) If you look at the attached graph from HED, which shows standard (28mm, red), 45 mm (blue), 60 mm (yellow) and 90mm (green) depths, you can see that even the 45 mm rims get most of the advantage of the deeper rims at low yaw angles, and don't have much of a difference in the high yaw angles.
4. The commonly cited reason for not having an aero front wheel with a non-aero rear wheel is that the hit you would take on handling since the back helps smooth the air flow from the front. I don't think you would find this to be a big deal unless you had a very deep (or disk) wheel in the front. The front is where the biggest payoff is in terms of aero.
The Easton Vista's were what I had on my Dual before it was stolen, they are pretty equivalent to the Shimano's you have now (stock on my P2 as well). Good wheels, but not a significant upgrade.
I have the Soul S4.0 (website below), which cost $425 for the set (41 mm depth, made of aluminum). Rich found these, and Chris and I both also have a set. Mike ordered some, but canceled due to a backlog on orders and got the Felt TTR2's, which are the same depth (although I don't know if they have aero spokes) and cost ca. $600. I don't know what Mike thinks of his Felts, but Chris, Rich and I have been quite happy with our Soul wheels, and I found them to be an upgrade over my stock set (more aero and 200 grams lighter, and I can ride on them in training).
If I were spending thousands to maximize aero, I would probably get the 60 mm depth for the front (HED Jet 60 or Zipp 606), and the Renn disk, or do 60's front and rear. At my speeds, the aero helmet is a much better investment anyway.
--
Andrew T. Morehead, Jr., Associate Professor
Director of Graduate Studies
Board of Governors Distinguished Professor for Teaching
Department of Chemistry, East Carolina University
Voice: (252) 328-9798 Fax: (252) 328-6210
"There is no disgrace in not knowing, but there is in not wanting to learn"
- Socrates
________________________________
From: John Lennox <jcln...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:32:38 -0500
To: <tricredibles@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
I value your suggestions, so please chime in if you have first hand knowledge. I have read reviews & forums online, so I'm looking for experience from folks I know. I'd love to hear from someone who can tell me if this makes any sense.
________________________________
Brandan crashed his bike in a pothole at the MS 150 this fall and needs a new front wheel. Since I was considering getting something a little more aero for my bike, I'm thinking about giving him the front wheel from my P2C.
My original equipment wheels are a decent set of Shimano, with an aero profile and flat spokes. I'm not going to be running at 20 mph, but would like to do something to reduce drag &/or improve rolling resistance. even if I don't' save lots of time, I'd like to have a little more energy at T2. But, I'm not interested in wasting money on a wheel that doesn't perform any better than what came with the bike.
THANKS,
John
________________________________
1. Will I actually get any benefit from a new wheel like a Hed 3? At my body weight, I'm thinking that a disk would have performance issues in wind that might offset aero advantages. I'm also considering clincher, not tubular. Do any of you run tubulars &/or see a major advantage for someone my size.
2.
3. Does it make any sense to just get a front wheel, or should I be getting the rear first anyway?
4.
5. Mike, you recently got new wheels. Did you replace a rigid spoke wheel like the Hed with something else. I thought you mentioned problems with truing.
6.
7. Kyle, I thought that you sold your Hed wheels too. But was that because they were tubulars? Otherwise, did you like the performance?
8.
9. Phillip, did you get Kyle's wheels or Shaeffer's?
I don't intend to spend $2K on a set of wheels, but would consider a new front wheel, particularly if I it makes sense to look for something on e-bay.
--
-----newsgroup footer------------
To post to members, email to tricredibles@googlegroups.com...
To unsubscribe, email tricredibles-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
Check out our website... http://www.tricredibles.com ....
John,
Rich, Andrew and I got Soul 40s. About $400 for the pair. I am very happy with them. See link below.
I am also quite happy with the HED3 tubular that I bought from Kyle for the front. Works in most race conditions. I use it along with rear wheel covers ($80) from Wheel Builder that I put on an old Ritchey aluminum. The wheel covers add weight a little weight and don't have the dimples of a Zip but I do think I got $80 worth of aero advantage out of them for a couple races. But then how much are seconds or a chance for the podium worth? Come to think about it maybe more than I have spent. I'll have to think of easier ways to stay in the league with Jim Bulluck than training like he does.
Kyle,
Do you still have the your HED3 rear wheel? How much would you sell it for?
Kyle and Doug - congrats 50 miles in less than half a day is awesome.
servire
Chris Mansfield, PhD
Professor, Department of Public Health, Brody School of Medicine,
Director, Center for Health Services Research and Development
Bldg. "N", Physicians Quadrangle
East Carolina University
Greenville, NC 27858
252-744-2785
252-744-2952 (direct)
fax 252-744-3259
From: Kyle Pitchford [mailto:kpitchf...@greenvillenc.gov]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 7:48 PM
To: Bruce and Angie; 'John Lennox'; tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
If your looking for a good value at a good price, the Easton Vista's that came with my stock Cervelo have been absolutely "bomb proof". After I bought my QRoo last year, I transferred them to the new bike. I can't say enough good things about them. Light, durable, aero and the wheel set retails for less than $250 I think. Probably even cheaper if you go on e-bay). 3 seasons of pretty rough riding and a couple of spills, and I've only had to true them once. Bert's got a pair as well. Come to think of it, he started kicking butt around the same time he got them!
________________________________
From: Bruce and Angie [thechromed...@suddenlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:00 AM
To: 'John Lennox'; tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
John, Andrew Morehead had some sweet aluminum deep-v race wheels on his bike (before somebody else decided they needed it more) that were incredibly affordable. I dunno what brand they were. Anyway, my thoughts below....
________________________________
From: John Lennox [mailto:jcln...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:33 AM
To: tricredibles@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Tricredibles] New Wheel for my bike
I value your suggestions, so please chime in if you have first hand knowledge. I have read reviews & forums online, so I'm looking for experience from folks I know. I'd love to hear from someone who can tell me if this makes any sense.
________________________________
Brandan crashed his bike in a pothole at the MS 150 this fall and needs a new front wheel. Since I was considering getting something a little more aero for my bike, I'm thinking about giving him the front wheel from my P2C.
My original equipment wheels are a decent set of Shimano, with an aero profile and flat spokes. I'm not going to be running at 20 mph, but would like to do something to reduce drag &/or improve rolling resistance. even if I don't' save lots of time, I'd like to have a little more energy at T2. But, I'm not interested in wasting money on a wheel that doesn't perform any better than what came with the bike.
THANKS,
John
________________________________
1. Will I actually get any benefit from a new wheel like a Hed 3? Hell, yeah! More aero means less energy regardless of what speed you're going. You say you won't be running 20 mph, but you do some of the time I'm sure, and it'll help at lower speeds too (other than climbing pace). Hed 3's are heavy race wheels though and you feel it when you accelerate. At my body weight, I'm thinking that a disk would have performance issues in wind that might offset aero advantages. Only if you put the disc in the front, which nobody does thanks to Greg Lemond crushing Laurent Fignon at the TdF back in (circa) 1990. With the disc in the rear you have your weight on it, so it's not flimsy like the front could be. I have never felt the slightest twitch from wind on my rear disc. I'm also considering clincher, not tubular. Do any of you run tubulars &/or see a major advantage for someone my size. I don't think it's a matter of size. You can find arguments for both types of tires all over www.slowtwitch.com<http://www.slowtwitch.com/>. I run tubulars on race wheels and clinchers for training. Clinchers are no brainers to repair on the fly, but tubulars aren't bad either now that Tufo has a tape product that beats the old-school glue. Tubulars are supposed to be less prone to flats. Haven't had one yet on mine, so I guess so. FWIW, the pros still seem to be pro-tubular.
2. Does it make any sense to just get a front wheel, or should I be getting the rear first anyway? Sure. The front wheel is the one splitting the air in front of you. And it's a whole lot easier to change out. Cheaper too.
3. Mike, you recently got new wheels. Did you replace a rigid spoke wheel like the Hed with something else. I thought you mentioned problems with truing.
4. Kyle, I thought that you sold your Hed wheels too. But was that because they were tubulars? Otherwise, did you like the performance?
5. Phillip, did you get Kyle's wheels or Shaeffer's? His Renn disc was mine, and was Schaeffer's before that. I guess it's kind of like the team ho - we've all had a turn on her! But if you want a disc and don't want to spend a fortune, Renn is the way to go. Very affordable (about $500 retail) and good quality. They now make front aero wheels as well.
I don't intend to spend $2K on a set of wheels, but would consider a new front wheel, particularly if I it makes sense to look for something on e-bay.
--
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________________________________
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