Fw: Yahoo! News Story - Calif. bullet train hits criticism on SF Peninsula - Yahoo! News
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Michael Weidler
Jul 4, 2009, 9:02:25 PM7/4/09
to transit-group
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, pstr...@yahoo.com <pstr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
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Lee S. Walker
Jul 4, 2009, 10:59:42 PM7/4/09
to transport-innovators
This was probably in a lot of papers including the SF Chronicle, where
there was an online forum about it:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/n/a/2009/07/03/national/a160020D58.DTL&o=1
My theory is that the north-south HSR will probably not be built
because it is supposed to require private investors, and who would
invest $XX billion after learning how much better and inevitable a
statewide automated rapid transit will be, after which HSR will be
even more unprofitable and unable to compete against more modern
technologies.
But HSR would be more economical if each station is served by a few
score miles of PRT/GRT.
The Las Vegas HSR system seems more viable, and if they get the
freeway median first that may limit the automated transit need on that
route. But I lost the link for that.
I found this link for a book explaining that the U.S. has to keep
using newer technology on a big scale to be secure, but the author is
stil talking about HSR and biofuels.
Global Energy Transformation Institute
http://www.getinstitute.com/
blog: http://www.getinstitute.com/blog.aspx
there was an online forum about it:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/n/a/2009/07/03/national/a160020D58.DTL&o=1
My theory is that the north-south HSR will probably not be built
because it is supposed to require private investors, and who would
invest $XX billion after learning how much better and inevitable a
statewide automated rapid transit will be, after which HSR will be
even more unprofitable and unable to compete against more modern
technologies.
But HSR would be more economical if each station is served by a few
score miles of PRT/GRT.
The Las Vegas HSR system seems more viable, and if they get the
freeway median first that may limit the automated transit need on that
route. But I lost the link for that.
I found this link for a book explaining that the U.S. has to keep
using newer technology on a big scale to be secure, but the author is
stil talking about HSR and biofuels.
Global Energy Transformation Institute
http://www.getinstitute.com/
blog: http://www.getinstitute.com/blog.aspx
Dennis Manning
Jul 5, 2009, 2:34:00 AM7/5/09
to transport-...@googlegroups.com
Lee:
You could be right. Looking for private investors for the first try at
building the Oakland/BART connector didn't attract the private money.
Another big problem is the cost estimates are looking more and more like the
Big Dig, and we don't have a Tip O'Neill out here. Putting HSR through
Fresno at first looked like about $700m deal. Now it's looking more like $2b
and still rising. The first estimates for the total system were about $25b.
Now about $45b. Wendell Cox says more like $80b. Wendell has a better track
record. (pun intended).
The LA/Vegas system (HSR or steel wheel) just grates on me. It's a subsidy
for the gambling industry. The gambling industry isn't a great contribution
to the overall well being or economics of the country. It's even less than a
zero sum game.
On a tangential item - One of the problems we face is the very the long
planning periods for transportation projects especially the large ones. The
HSR has been in the works for about 15 years. If you had been working for 15
years to develop a project and someone came along and said, "Hey you've got
it all wrong. I've got a better idea" what would you do?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee S. Walker" <b4p...@yahoo.com>
To: "transport-innovators" <transport-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: [t-i] Re: Fw: Yahoo! News Story - Calif. bullet train hits
criticism on SF Peninsula - Yahoo! News
>
You could be right. Looking for private investors for the first try at
building the Oakland/BART connector didn't attract the private money.
Another big problem is the cost estimates are looking more and more like the
Big Dig, and we don't have a Tip O'Neill out here. Putting HSR through
Fresno at first looked like about $700m deal. Now it's looking more like $2b
and still rising. The first estimates for the total system were about $25b.
Now about $45b. Wendell Cox says more like $80b. Wendell has a better track
record. (pun intended).
The LA/Vegas system (HSR or steel wheel) just grates on me. It's a subsidy
for the gambling industry. The gambling industry isn't a great contribution
to the overall well being or economics of the country. It's even less than a
zero sum game.
On a tangential item - One of the problems we face is the very the long
planning periods for transportation projects especially the large ones. The
HSR has been in the works for about 15 years. If you had been working for 15
years to develop a project and someone came along and said, "Hey you've got
it all wrong. I've got a better idea" what would you do?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee S. Walker" <b4p...@yahoo.com>
To: "transport-innovators" <transport-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: [t-i] Re: Fw: Yahoo! News Story - Calif. bullet train hits
criticism on SF Peninsula - Yahoo! News
>
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