Oil Prices Skyrocket

[rot...@zahav.net.il]

Oil prices breaking new records.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121274989880651647.html?
mod=hpp_us_whats_news

Time to think out of the box. Time for PRT.

Oded Roth
http://www.transportationet.com

[Kirston Henderson]

on 6/6/08 4:11 PM, rot...@zahav.net.il at rot...@zahav.net.il wrote:

> Oil prices breaking new records.
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121274989880651647.html?
> mod=hpp_us_whats_news
>
> Time to think out of the box. Time for PRT.

Dualmode is a much faster and lower infrastructure cost option and the
current prices of gasoline are making it more attractive by the day.

Kirston Henderson
MegaRail®

[Jack Slade]

It is even a little late for that. If some forward-looking government had put in some money ten years ago, that would have been the right time.

 

I don't see any way now to get started, and build any significant number of miles before oil prices go way out of line, at the present rate of increase.

 

Jack Slade

rot...@zahav.net.il wrote:

[rot...@zahav.net.il]

Jack,

Theoretically you are right, but we all know that the
powerful gravitational forces are maintaining the business as
usual situation, in a “Nash Equilibrium”.

Only a shock, like the 1973 oil crisis, may shovel the PRT or
DM ahead.


Oded Roth
http://www.transportationet.com

[Jerry Roane]

Oded

Nice personal tag on your web site when you wax philosophical.  The only wince I had when reading it was the giving up personal freedom line.  You may want to consider changing that thought because it comes across as you would be giving up your personal freedom incrementally to use advanced transportation and although you're on a guideway for the next few minutes you are not really giving up your political or moral freedom.  A slight wording change may convey the deeper thought better and not give an impression that you want to take the public's freedom. 

From my dealings I don't think there is a vast conspiracy to squelch anything.  I believe it is just a chasm of education in physics and engineering to those who have specialized in other fields.  Our education system tries to create specialists over generalists and in doing so we separate the word children from the math children early on.  This desire to create specialists may be our underlying problem.  How we fix that is difficult but the Internet helps educate across all the specializations so it is certainly a modern agent of change.

Jerry

[Dennis Manning]

I had hoped for PRT to get more attention from recent oil price run up and
the increasing concern about global warming. I believe it is wroking in
PRT's favor but main focus of gov'ts everywhere is on higher auto and track
mileage and on using alternative fuels. So the "gravitational forces" remain
too strong.

Dennis

[Walter Brewer]

Answer to the famous question: "how is your wife?". If she is not in
earshot; "compared to what?"
Same problem here. Advocates keep beating the drum for more mass transit
because comparing full vehicles to average occupancy autos it is very
efficient. But in the real world at most USA densities at least there is
little diference.
But in trips autos have about 50 to 1 leverage. If San Diego is anywhere
near typical the TOTAL mass transit system would have to operate on ZERO
energy to match the saving from just an easily available 1 mpg improvement
in auto performance. Multiply that by Prius-type performance or the new 35
mpg standards in the future. That's relatively easy and both politicians,
and public can visualize easily. (Though IME politicians won't admit it.)
So that's the competition PRT has to face. It may be able to out perform
Hybrids, etc, but high volume is needed to make much of a dent in actual
barrels of oil saved for urban transportation at least.

Walt Brewer

[Jay Andress]

  Good morning Dennis.... you are an early riser for the west coast....

 

   It is interesting that our society seems to be stuck on simply finding a replacement for gasoline or a way to stretch that gasoline supply. We are not yet at the point where we are thinking about replacing infrastructure. If you look at the tax and incentive packages coming out of Washington DC it is still about replacing oil as a fuel...not infrastructure change.

   Why...probably because people have a certain comfort level with the way things are. Plus they have made a financial commitment to the status quo (ie: made payments on a car, built a garage and etc.).

   What will it take to get people thinking about making infrastructure changes? If gasoline continues to stay high then it could happen soon. I think people are shocked by what happened yesterday with the price of oil...I am. There does not seem to be a leveling off but an acceleration in price. The event that will get people thinking about infrastructure change would be a Pearl Harbour type of event with oil...an explosion in a major oil field or the stinking of a vessel in a major port or in a critical shipping lane. Or maybe the election of a new President, who will take action instead of just moaning.

   The efforts of Texas A&M/CEETI are also as important for PRT as they are for dual mode because they are about an electrified guide way and electric to run transportation...a change in infrastructure. These efforts deserve all of our strong support.

[Michael Weidler]

What we need is to get the man in the street more interested in PRT. We have got to connect with the people being forced onto the current disgusting transit. Make them aware there is a much better option. --- On Sat, 6/7/08, Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net> wrote:

[Michael Weidler]

So you're planning to buy everyone a new car? I can't afford a new car. Neither can anyone I know. Figure that at least 1/3 of the vehicles on the road can not be replaced by their owners due to the lack of money. Figure that the other 2/3 make enough money to not give a damn. Now what were you saying about new car technologies? --- On Sat, 6/7/08, Walter Brewer <catc...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

[Walter Brewer]

About 5 sigma of cars are renewed in 7 years or so by the normal process. That's when the transition can happen.

As our Dependency Culture grows I wouldn't be surprised to see gov subsidy for differnt cars. It's happening with housing. It's happening with mass transit. San Diego lumps low income folke in with disabled etc for reduced fare.

[Walter Brewer]

Friday, San Diego Assoc of Govs spent nearly 3 hours haggling over a new mass transit fare structure. There was a long list of transit riders, all reeceiving some sort of gov subsidy, complaining about the higher fares, no free transfers etc etc.

You should have been there to hand out; "Vote for PRT" flyers. Seems not like the right segment of society to promote PRT, but they get listened to.

 

 Walt Brewer

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Weidler

To: transport-...@googlegroups.com

[Michael Weidler]

Walt, unless things have changed in the past few years, San Diego had little if any fare subsidy. SD has the highest fares I've seen anywhere in the country. The only discount other than handicapped was buying a monthly pass and the savings on that over paying cash was evaporating when I left.

--- On Sat, 6/7/08, Walter Brewer <catc...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

[Jack Slade]

Politicians just don't get the whole picture, do they. A more fuel-efficient car will get us by for how many years? Less than 10, in my opinion, and only for those who can afford them.

 

The hybrids will be in the same position in 10 years that average cars are in today, because all alternative fuels will increase in price as oil depletes and becomes more expensive.

 

I observed while in College that people who considered themselves "academics" had no interest in becoming associated with or learning anything about the "trades", or manual arts.

 

The same seems to apply to politicians and anything new. They don't know, and don't want to try.

 

Jack Slade

Michael Weidler <pstr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Walter Brewer]

Things have changed. Very complex structure with different kinds of monthly, or day passes. Even separate for a shuttle from the Coaster commuter rail line. If you google SANDAG.org take a look.

Irony is the riders thinking of shifting from the cars to transit for repetitive trips at least now find it cost more than the marginal added cost of $4.00 gas.

Fare subsidy is around 50% average of just operationg costs w/o amortized capital. In 10 or so years I've been involved don't think it has changed much. The only break even for operation costs is the segment to/from the Mex. border. Rush hour workers to/from downtown fill the LRT.

[Richard Gronning]

In Minneapolis - St. Paul we at CPRT (Citizens for PRT) have been working on educating the people for 14 years. I've seen people who, not so suddenly, have had their businesses threatened by closing of major streets for LRT construction complain because "we" (at CPRT) haven't done anything about it. Where were they when we visited legislators? Where were they when we had booths at every civic fair in the area?

The Republicans loved us because they could blame us for not spending $$$ on transit, "until PRT was fully developed." Of course, no $$$ for development. The Democrats hated us because we are, "A distraction for real transit; LRT" They told us so. After all, the lobbyists couldn't be wrong.

Either PRT; SM-DM is put in publicly, (never happen!) or it's put in completely privately, at least in the U.S.

Dick

[rot...@zahav.net.il]

The International Energy Agency publicized on June 6, “Energy
Technologies Perspective 2008”
(http://www.iea.org/Textbase/techno/etp/ETP_2008.pdf).

Alternative fuels are mentioned and so do engine efficiency.
Car structure efficiency, transit efficiency or land use
efficiency is out of their radar screens.

Oded Roth
http://www.transportationet.com



---- Original message ----

>Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:11:52 -0700
>From: Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net>
>Subject: [t-i] Re: Oil Prices Skyrocket
>To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
>
>

[Richard Gronning]

The discussion is;
What we need is to get the man in the street more interested in PRT (DM -SM)!
as proposed by Michael Weidler.

More specifically,
"How do we accomplish this?"

 A good start is July, Popular Science.
I got my July issue of Popular Science yesterday and what do I see on the cover? PRT! To be exact, it's Unimodal's Skytran. Somebody has been doing Public Relations! It's part of an article on, "Eco-Tropolis." the "Green Megalopolis" of tomorrow. At least the U.S.A. and some of the world now know about one PRT system.

Dick

[Walter Brewer]

Early there is " Energy efficient motor systems" which could cover advanced
on demand transportation systems. But it seems to disappead in the follow
on.

Walt Brewer
----- Original Message -----
From: <rot...@zahav.net.il>
To: <transport-...@googlegroups.com>

[Dave Petrie]

I just returned from Greece-Croatia.

Petrol averaged 1.2 Euro/liter. At exchange rate of $1.65/ Euro, that
computes to $7.49/gal. For the best of the smaller European cars, at 30-mpg,
that computes to
25-cents/gallon for them; 13-cents/gallon currently for similar efficient
cars in USA.

The DM-compatible pure electric composite microcar, at ~1.2 cents/mile
(contingent on new long-life batteries), charged via the 44% efficient
NG-fueled grid, is going to be the most popular car/mass transit system of
the 21st Century.

And urban freeway congestion, as we know it, will be essentially over.

The long-term implications on How We Live, including the way our society
develops, will be be uplifting.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Brewer" <catc...@roadrunner.com>
To: <transport-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: [t-i] Re: Oil Prices Skyrocket

Early there is " Energy efficient motor systems" which could cover advanced

on demand transportation systems. But it seems to disappear in the follow

[Dave Petrie]

Correction: Try 25-cents/MILE, 13-cents/MILE.

[Jay Andress]

  That is indeed a great start. I wish they would write an article about the whole concept of electric guide ways and the benefits...energy efficiency, global warming, congestion, self-guiding....

 

                                                                       Jay

[Gérard Massip]

Can you scan this cover, please ? (I'm living in France)

2008/6/8, Richard Gronning <gron...@myclearwave.net>:

[Jay Andress]

Happy to oblige...scan is attached. While the cover is great exposure...not much information in the article.

 

                                         Jay

[Gérard Massip]

thank you very much

2008/6/9, Jay Andress <andre...@gmail.com>: