transport in a vacuum.... final energy barrier

[George Schrader]

To me there seems to be more than an ample amount of structural and technological abilities to remove nearly all of transports current energy consumptions that we know today. The last remaining barrier is air resistance.
And Yes I have met Darryl Oyster. I find that transporting in a vacuum is most interesting.

 

Jerry Roane expressed his concern with

1.claustrophobia,

2.maintaining a breathable atmosphere.

3. maintaining the vacuum.

     a. system wide

     b. accomplishing egresses

 

All reasonable issues which need to be fully addressed

 

My interest is in changing highways into a form which does not fragment habitat.

Means replacing highways in an elevated, buried, enclosed, and or combined form. 

An enclosed form is the most ideal being both ecologically and environmentally sound.

The benefits of enclosure are enormous- As that accomplishment of a secure and controlled environment allows transport and utility processes to begin technologically evolving. There are a great many waiting technologies which cannot be reliably applied in today's open environments.

 

1.claustrophobia
I do not see claustrophobia being an issue in a system which is large enough to accommodate the smooth transition of today's vehicles and containers.

 

2.maintaining a breathable atmosphere

Could be problematic in a capsule carrier.

 It seems reasonable that oxygen can be provided. however a prolonged stay will probably need scrubbing abilities.

 

3. maintaining the vacuum.

     a. system wide

Leaves me to wonder in what level of vacuum is necessary or desirable. I presume a low level vacuum will suffice and may be easier to maintain.

I seem to recall a mention that vacuums are not just achieved by pumps sucking out the air but can also be accomplished through some type of electronic process.

 

3. maintaining the vacuum.

     b. accomplishing egresses

The capsule may need to be in two stages. one which is the carrier frame which never leaves the system to prevent contaminations and another which maintains a breathable atmosphere and opens to receive cargo.

 

The cost in providing such an egress is likely to be considerable.

 

So far a round capsule seems the most advantageous shape.  I like it as it lends itself easily to automated pitching and rolling which can take up g-forces and or redirect forces generated in the transport and or egress processes.

 

The precise ability to electrically control speeds and braking with pitch and roll should limit the distances in switching - braking and diminish the required amounts of structure necessity.

 

I keep imagining an egg shaped guide way that will allow a capsule to rotate, pitch and roll.

 

Is it practical to think that in egresses the capsule could roll over when verticaly changing  lanes thus placing the g-forces on occupants into the seat where it can be comfortably managed.

A braking application that reverses the vehicles positions as if in those generated in acceleration.

 

What are acceptable g-force levels?

Is a low level vacuum acceptable?

Are atmospere scrubbers necesary and can they be reliably provided. Or can a face mask be an acceptable alternative?

The CORRIDOR CONCEPT
Project: EXPONENTIAL
Humanity's Highway to a Sustainable Society

George Schrader  850 527 7612
1208 Grace Ave,
Panama City, FL 32401- 2425

gls...@gmail.com                                                                                                          
Evolution = Revolution       IDS  Integrated Distribution System
The lucrative transformation of highways into the diminished and limited provision of a permanent structure. Whose secure and controlled environment then allows transport and utilities to technologically evolve.
Amazingly all in a practical application of reliably known structural and technological abilities whose manner of form and processes are not just ecologically and environmentally sound. But whose multitude of exponentially increased abilities in efficiencies, speeds, safety, and ease of use will truly revolutionize the population’s availability in time, energy, and resources.
What is a permanent concrete pipe? What is magnetic suspension? What is electric propulsion and braking regeneration? What is a vacuum? What is a capsule just large enough to accommodate the smooth transition of today’s vehicles and containers?
It is the reliable accomplishment of transport comparably with out its energy and resource consumptions! With out its accidents and congestions. Whose ease in automated speeds leaves them limited only by those G-Forces generated.
My figures suggest that such a system will not incur the cost of highways and whose energy efficiency revenues alone promise to be 5 times greater than is the spending on highways. A 500% annual return in providing a permanent structure and components is not lucrative, its absurd.
If you build it they will come.

[Jerry Roane]

George

A few quick points.  Creating vacuum with a "getter" is extremely expensive and not suitable for large volumes of evacuated space.  This is used after the chamber is already pumped down with the best the pumps can do then the getter gets the rest of the gasses but again not suitable for transportation.  Daryl and I talked about the level of vacuum necessary and I suggested that a crumby vacuum might be an answer so that in a failure of the oxygen system there is some amount of air that can be gathered up to breathe.  Something similar to 40,000 feet elevation air.  The problem with enclosed tubes with air in the way the cars will be giant pump pistons and that won't work.  If you want cars to push through air in an enclosed tube the tube has to be pretty big as a percentage of the car frontal area.  In a wind tunnel you need 10 to one to keep the wind tunnel sides from interacting with the body under test.  In an enclosed tunnel to keep from getting too much aerodynamic drag from the tube wall interaction I would guess you need the tunnel to be five times the area of the vehicles traveling in them.  That is just a guess testing would need to be done to know. 

I believe you are wrong about claustrophobia.  You may want to study this mind trick.  Even if you dismiss these people and their fears as irrational they are a good portion of society and because people travel together the number of cars with fearful people inside will be a big portion of your customer base not a fringe element.  I suggest more research to understand what size room or elevator shaft etc. would be acceptable to enough of these folks. 

I am all about fixing transportation so that it does not cut the city in half.  Elevated fixes this but enclosed is not necessary for this advantage. 

Jerry Roane

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[George Schrader]

Merriam-Webster Definition of "getter" 2.a substance introduced into a vacuum tube or electric lamp to remove traces of gas.

 

Hm mm I seem to vaguely recall the mention of a seemingly electronic process which collected gaseous molecules similar to a electrolysis process as in gold or silver plating. A getter sounds more like the introduction of a matter? that perhaps chemically combines with and absorbs gases which transforms them into some sort of a non gaseous inert state. And presume it may or may not remain or become extracted? there seems much to be learned and realized here.

 

The purpose of the vacuum is to diminish the energy requirements in over coming air resistance.

I understand that in the open air, doubling the speed, quadruples the energy requirements. Which coupled with g-forces (on both passenger & structure) seems to determine the very limits of what speeds may be reasonably achieved on a automated guide way system.

I suspect this measure of air resistance being encountered may be relative to the density of that air which is present.  Not at all sure what levels of resistance occur in what density of air?. Wondering if there is a curve in that graph which after a certain level of vacuum causes the air resistance levels to drop off to a point where they may not be significant enough to pursue 

 

Expanding the area of the guideway to reduce the air resistances against the walls does not seem a practical direction of development as it seems to increase the amount of required structure. Though not necessarily out of the question in a final cost analysis. Attainable speeds have a very significant influence in determining social and economic abilities. It is conceivable that those means of accomplishing energy may become radically enhanced in the near future.

 

What is a particle accelerator any way? Isn't it a promising energy production system? Which is likely to have been stalled in the concerns of disrupting the economic reliability of the in place processes.

 

As to what seems my overlooking the fears of claustrophobia. 

Actually I completely agree. One does not want to underestimate panic situations. I myself can only remember one panicky instance where when leaning into an open lid on a very large empty crate to pick out out a piece of dry ice. I was pushed in, the lid was closed, and sat upon. After a few seconds, say 10 or 20, the air rain out. I was panicked and so desperately thrashed about that they fortunately opened the lid.

 

However that system I am exploring is intended to smoothly accommodate today's vehicles and containers. Its quite large, as in order to accommodate a 8'x8' container in round caspules, they would need to be about 14' feet in dia. Which far and exceeds the dimensions of an elevator. And there is an almost certainty that the walls of this capsule will become overwhelmed with media processes. Yep! TVs so big we will be actually in them. Talk about surround sound. or perhaps just a soft white lighting. The Visuality of motions in a capsule would become imperceptible. That ones actual position may be imperceptible. And that one could be conceivably not notice changes in direction due the capsules ability to rotate in possibly all axis's in response to those enertia generated forces.

 

shaping g-forces w/ enertia dampning

 

And yes to me too its all about removing the fragmentation's of both wildlife and humans environments. Expanding our area of interactions adds to our experiences and builds our state of comprehension.

 

Can we even imagine what it will mean when the average person will be able to afford both the time and cost to travel globally? Seems to me poverty and war could be speedily placed, thankfully, into a far distant past. 

 

George

--

[Dennis Manning]

I believe that the "Swiss Metro Maglev" concept envisions a less than prefect vacuum for it's maglev tube.

 

http://www.magneticsmagazine.com/e-prints/maglev.pdf

 

Here's a start. Googling Swiss Metro maglev vacuum will yield more.

 

Dennis

[Jerry Roane]

George

Yes the getter attracts gas molecules chemically.  They are in the vacuum to get the very last remaining gases after a long time of mechanical pump down.  I am not familiar with an electronic way to pump gases out with any speed.  The semiconductor industry uses thousands of vacuum pumps and they are expensive and use big motors to run, are hot to the touch when running and they are always being sold as used scrap because they wear out.  If you want to buy a vacuum pump taken out of semiconductor service just do a quick ebay search.  There are lots to pick from and most of them are either refurbished or worn out. 

Particle accelerators are not energy sources. 

Your summation of energy to move objects through air is common but without putting real numbers on it it leads to a wrong conclusion about power needed at a speed.  The horsepower needed to power an aerodynamic car through sea level air is in the attached graph.  As you can see from the graph if you start with a low drag moving even 220 mph is not that much power and energy.  The US Dot railroad "expert" now working for the enemy as he was while pulling down a federal salary he could not (would not) accept the wind tunnel data.  Although expensive vacuum sounds like it would reduce energy to move cars, aerodynamics of 3D forms has almost as much potential for daily travel distances and it cannot spring a leak or wear out a pump.  By the time you pump down all the leaks in a thousand mile tube you will have expended a non-trivial amount of energy pulling air out of the tube and microscopic leaks in the seals.  The energy savings of such a system would need to be measured and accounted for.  It will not be zero energy to keep a vacuum in the tube.   

The graph is our wheels retracted version with 12.055 square feet frontal area and a measured drag coefficient of .07.  This graph also accounts for the wheel rolling friction also.

Jerry Roane