PRT display?
Dennis Manning
Richard Gronning
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
Michael Weidler
| I proposed using model train technology to verify PRT control systems and as a visual demonstrator of the concept about 10 years ago. At that time, it would have cost a few thousand dollars just for the mechanicals in the smallest scale. I was, of course, imagining a serious lay-out - not just a circle with a couple of stations. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net> wrote: |
|
Jerry Schneider
>I proposed using model train technology to verify PRT control
>systems and as a visual demonstrator of the concept about 10 years
>ago. At that time, it would have cost a few thousand dollars just
>for the mechanicals in the smallest scale. I was, of course,
>imagining a serious lay-out - not just a circle with a couple of stations.
Such a model PRT system has been constructed and is (or was)
operational, done by SkyWeb Express some time ago.
It had some problems (vehicle collisions) which may have (or may not
have) been fixed. They made a video to show it in operation but I
believe that they showed it (and the physical system) only to
prospective clients.
>--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>From: Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net>
>Subject: [t-i] PRT display?
>To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:59 AM
>
>Check out this tourist attraction:
>
><http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/>http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/
>
>Why not a section showing PRT? Possible test bed for control systems?
>
>Anyone got an idea of how to approach them? Ironic that the exhibit
>is in Hamburg where Cabintaxi tried to get started.
>
>Dennis
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "transport-innovators" group.
>To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
>For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "transport-innovators" group.
>To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
>For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
- Jerry Schneider -
Innovative Transportation Technologies
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans
Richard Gronning
They didn't have good traction (braking). Hard to fix completely. The
vehicles would "nudge" the car in front when stopping at a station, but
only occasionally. Each car had a slightly different braking
characteristic. I think that the braking also changed with use. LIMs
wouldn't act at all like this and be MUCH more exact. The Alpha scale
model was made to run 20 vehicles (they had more than that) and 3
off-line stations. It was a good effort on a budget. I think that they
continue to use it to test and refine the software.
Dennis Manning
saw it a couple of years ago.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jerry Schneider" <j...@peak.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:22 AM
To: <transport-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
Steve Raney
Skyweb Express, featuring our proprietary control system technology.
This technology also operates TrakEdit, our propriety simulation
software."
Video: http://www.taxi2000.com/images/movies/AlphaVehicles.wmv
Image: http://www.cities21.org/cms/T2KscaleModel.JPG
On Jul 20, 12:03 pm, "Dennis Manning" <john.manni...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Steve Raney
scale model (skyweb style). Helpful for market research and visual
impact analysis:
http://www.cities21.org/PRTmodel/UCTC.htm
And then there's also the portable JPods display.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/knetwork/867521556/
And Beamways has a trade show scale model display:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VufOhoWUW70
Michael Weidler
From: Jerry Schneider <j...@peak.org>
To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
At 10:40 AM 7/20/2011, you wrote:
> I proposed using model train technology to verify PRT control systems and as a visual demonstrator of the concept about 10 years ago. At that time, it would have cost a few thousand dollars just for the mechanicals in the smallest scale. I was, of course, imagining a serious lay-out - not just a circle with a couple of stations.
Such a model PRT system has been constructed and is (or was) operational, done by SkyWeb Express some time ago.
It had some problems (vehicle collisions) which may have (or may not have) been fixed. They made a video to show it in operation but I believe that they showed it (and the physical system) only to prospective clients.
> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net>
> Subject: [t-i] PRT display?
> To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:59 AM
>
> Check out this tourist attraction:
>
> <http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/>http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/
>
> Why not a section showing PRT? Possible test bed for control systems?
>
> Anyone got an idea of how to approach them? Ironic that the exhibit is in Hamburg where Cabintaxi tried to get started.
>
> Dennis
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
- Jerry Schneider -
Innovative Transportation Technologies
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Michael Weidler
From: Richard Gronning <rgro...@gofast.am>
To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Richard Gronning
Since I have observed the Skyweb model from the beginning, I think that this thing about the vehicles running into each other should be explained.
It isn't exactly a "run-in." Because the vehicles are on a slippery board, occasionally they "nudge" the vehicle in front as they come into a station, because the wheels slide a bit. It isn't much, and only happened about 10% of the time. The scale model "Alpha" system was set up to demonstrate that the software could handle 3 off-line stations and never was meant to be perfect.
In the real world, with actual LIMs running and braking, a full sized system based on this software would NEVER nudge another vehicle at a station, let alone collide.
Dick
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
Richard Gronning
Dennis Manning
From: Richard Gronning <rgro...@gofast.am>
To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
The vehicle collisions were because the chassis came from slot cars. They didn't have good traction (braking). Hard to fix completely. The vehicles would "nudge" the car in front when stopping at a station, but only occasionally. Each car had a slightly different braking characteristic. I think that the braking also changed with use. LIMs wouldn't act at all like this and be MUCH more exact. The Alpha scale model was made to run 20 vehicles (they had more than that) and 3 off-line stations. It was a good effort on a budget. I think that they continue to use it to test and refine the software.
On 7/20/2011 1:22 PM, Jerry Schneider wrote:
> At 10:40 AM 7/20/2011, you wrote:
>> I proposed using model train technology to verify PRT control systems and as a visual demonstrator of the concept about 10 years ago. At that time, it would have cost a few thousand dollars just for the mechanicals in the smallest scale. I was, of course, imagining a serious lay-out - not just a circle with a couple of stations.
>
> Such a model PRT system has been constructed and is (or was) operational, done by SkyWeb Express some time ago.
> It had some problems (vehicle collisions) which may have (or may not have) been fixed. They made a video to show it in operation but I believe that they showed it (and the physical system) only to prospective clients.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transport-innovators+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Michael Weidler
From: Dennis Manning <john.m...@comcast.net>
To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:26 PM
Mark Townend
HO track is 16.5mm gauge, just over 1 inch over ties.
Another thing about using track switches in models rather than real applications is that you can switch
close in front of moving car without any risk of hurting people! You can't switch a real turnout with a
moving vehicle less than BSD from the divergence point in case the machine fails in an indeterminate
state. This is one of the biggest advantages of vehicle switches in real life systems.
Kindest Regards,
--
Mark Townend
email: ma...@townend.me
tel: 07817 297 295
On Mon 12/03/12 12:04 , Michael Weidler pstr...@yahoo.com sent:
> I take it you mean in-car switching rather than track switching? You don't.
> And it isn't necessary. Just never have the cars run into the switch
> points. The reason this keeps coming up is everyone thinks of of heavy
> railroad switches or monorail switches. A low mass switch equals a fast
> switch - regardless of where you install the switch.
> As for the operating software, it doesn't care how the switch functions
> or where it's located - just that the switch does what it's supposed to do
> when told to do so. The idea was to use N scale (if i recall) which is
> about an inch wide. Wrap the track in a monobeam facade. Use locomotive
> running gear with a "stick" protruding above the monobeam on which we
> attach the PRT cab.
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: Dennis Manning
> TO: transport-...@googlegroups.com
> SENT: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:26 PM
> SUBJECT: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
>
> Michael: How do you have passive switching using railroad track?
> Dennis
> FROM: Michael Weidler SENT: Friday, November 11, 2011 12:38 PM TO:
> transport-...@googlegroups.com SUBJECT: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
> Nothing like doing things the hard way. LOL. They should have gone with
> model railroad track and technology instead.
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: Richard Gronning
> TO: transport-...@googlegroups.com
> SENT: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:56 PM
> SUBJECT: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
> transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
> -------------------------
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email [1]
>
> -------------------------
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
>
Michael Weidler
From: Mark Townend <ma...@townend.me>
To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [t-i] PRT display?
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
> -------------------------
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email [1]
>
> -------------------------
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Mark Townend
switch can be managed effectively. The most significant source of risk is in moving the switching device(s) to the desired position
for a particular divergence. This can be mitigated by ensuring the device is detected and locked in the desired position by the
vehicle control system before the vehicle reaches the decision point on approach to the divergence. If the switch device fails in
movement, then emergency braking can be engaged to bring the unguided vehicle to rest before the divergence avoiding the risk of
striking the 'V'. As each vehicle manages its own switching independently, this process imposes no headway constraint of its own,
although the need to have the switch correctly engaged before the divergence means a minimum distance between subsequent divergences
on the same guide-way for a given approach speed. The technique described above mimics that used on track-switched railroads, where
a train cannot be cleared past the decision point until the track switch is confirmed locked in position. Although the system
imposes theoretical headway constraints, that is insignificant in typical low headway railroad operations.
Kindest Regards,
--
Mark Townend
email: ma...@townend.me
tel: 07817 297 295
On Mon 09/04/12 18:02 , Michael Weidler pstr...@yahoo.com sent:
> And what happens if an in-vehicle switch fails part way through the turn?
> Seems to me that the pod is likely to at least bounce off the wall of the
> guideway. Can it plow into the V of a diverge?
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: Mark Townend
> TO: transport-...@googlegroups.com
> SENT: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:29 AM
> > transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en [1].
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > "transport-innovators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en [2].
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > "transport-innovators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en [3].
> >
> > -------------------------
> > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> > http://www.netintelligence.com/email [4] [1]
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > "transport-innovators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > transport-...@googlegroups.com .
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en [5].
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] http://www.netintelligence.com/email [6]
> >
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transport-innovators+
> unsub...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en [7].
>
> -------------------------
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email [8]
>
> -------------------------
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "transport-innovators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> transport-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en
> [2] http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en
> [3] http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en
> [4] http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> [5] http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en
> [6] http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> [7] http://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators?hl=en
> [8] http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
>
Richard Gronning
2 switches.
Dick
kirston henderson
> Assuming a robust design and dependable materials used in manufacture,
> generically the risks associated with a mechanical in-vehicle
> switch can be managed effectively. The most significant source of risk is in
> moving the switching device(s) to the desired position
> for a particular divergence. This can be mitigated by ensuring the device is
> detected and locked in the desired position by the
> vehicle control system before the vehicle reaches the decision point on
> approach to the divergence. If the switch device fails in
> movement, then emergency braking can be engaged to bring the unguided vehicle
> to rest before the divergence avoiding the risk of
> striking the 'V'. As each vehicle manages its own switching independently,
> this process imposes no headway constraint of its own,
> although the need to have the switch correctly engaged before the divergence
> means a minimum distance between subsequent divergences
> on the same guide-way for a given approach speed. The technique described
> above mimics that used on track-switched railroads, where
> a train cannot be cleared past the decision point until the track switch is
> confirmed locked in position. Although the system
> imposes theoretical headway constraints, that is insignificant in typical low
> headway railroad operations.
>
> Kindest Regards,
I believe that you are exactly correct and that is the reason that this
approach is being used in our system designs.
Kirston Henderson
MegaRail® Transportation Systems
kirston henderson
> And then there is redundancy...
> 2 switches.
>
You are correct and our systems include high degrees of fault tolerance
and that includes the vehicle switching.