Association <transfigurism@googlegroups.com>
Received: by 10.224.201.7 with SMTP id ey7mr5663044qab.0.1334599732159;
Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: transfigurism@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.229.201.222 with SMTP id fb30ls2260878qcb.6.gmail; Mon, 16 Apr
2012 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.224.201.7 with SMTP id ey7mr5662799qab.0.1334599724162;
Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.224.201.7 with SMTP id ey7mr5662798qab.0.1334599724131;
Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <jlcarr...@gmail.com>
Received: from mail-qa0-f53.google.com (mail-qa0-f53.google.com [209.85.216.53])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a39si8051579qch.0.2012.04.16.11.08.44
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jlcarr...@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.53;
Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jlcarr...@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jlcarr...@gmail.com; dkim=pass header...@gmail.com
Received: by qadc11 with SMTP id c11so3596226qad.19
for <transfigurism@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id
:subject:from:to:content-type;
bh=ykDkQoCjPXRde7+JtViEv/u4Yygb3zwRMc26IjP7D5Q=;
b=eNIPRZRwB1Ta8pwT3Y/x7WctyOZ4Snh7SJIxqR8WuPRgcuGCkiGYGfD9cLCXm+9dBJ
LclBLu0dyCAKdNQuRkhHLFQw96lO4QD3dYPVOS3bZIl9W82KXL47TcCP+9sBETOfLRHL
vJ67UlyKuSCZbHx4iRAVMzF6bSBTsS1FBXuUbkb6NdJLtt29rF4X2CtSgYUsbVnjalqN
wnHNDVH6qF2V9mUY2BDnNd1ItzyhDRHO11HhOM1j+SxrRp4juAfdQopnAeOAVT/bkfOZ
+cPNvyn2uLBel6Vi350nGaQ0GnSRvvz+C4OzPGYLt0qHmoaIFZ2vTQFvzOUoczU6Wm/e
8s1g==
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.106.25 with SMTP id v25mr5037042qco.54.1334599723883; Mon,
16 Apr 2012 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.229.14.198 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: jlcarr...@gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <CAJ-DvHH60OKicHxh9f0JmU0TQ_V9RsmsZ9aR60oKG5WJqjr...@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEHrA3rKXDSKHZB-sizMn5zjENqbA3a8E0So5UJAvHSAr7m...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAEHrA3qwoOa8p8gEFup4bdXjvg_5rOa8orqoX_S+aTyXYru...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJ-DvHHqCXMRh64pQjoFDDGMkxOg+NbJix1XyHUNpSBz71q...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAEc54_zYN8GaYqPTdhatt5eCP2O2XBcy=tecZXd=3upxsa+...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJkQ5N+nCjzdk1m5wrEVkQncY-91Mjo4DrFBdLMcQ+gvmS4...@mail.gmail.com>
<CADADfZgH2ixfExRb7QhZjRv2QZVrLN6mmdM_0Ufiz4Koeqw...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJkQ5N+mL1S+yWkhuTBAfO+XSHPR8s6DLogkA2W-+E59Ywg...@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJ-DvHH60OKicHxh9f0JmU0TQ_V9RsmsZ9aR60oKG5WJqjr...@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:08:43 -0600
Message-ID: <CALbjWnczJECZLhRHakfFiPaxmtpoL8Hn_sq_whqL=AM0brN...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mta] Re: QUESTION.
From: James Carroll <jlcarr...@gmail.com>
To: transfigurism@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0023543693d7759e5a04bdcfb645
--0023543693d7759e5a04bdcfb645
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Here are some of my comments about this topic over on the fb group.
I talk about this sort of issue in some depth here: http://
amateurscriptorians.blogspot.com/2009/06/language-of-symbolsm.html and
here: http://amateurscriptorians.blogspot.com/2009/06/
language-of-symbolism-continued.html.
Notice that under the logic of Dragan Micic, Moses was a devil worshiper
for borrowing from pagan Egyptian symbolism when revealing the Israelite
temple ritual.
You can't respond to everyone who complains, but this issue of symbolism is
important enough, that I would have sent my response above to him, if you
hadn't removed the email address Lincoln you sly dog you. Oh well. Forward
my response if you want.
In this case, the wheel symbol is from the Mormon pioneer heritage ("put
your shoulder to the wheel"), while the wings were most likely chosen to
symbolize transfigurism, or "rising above", thus "transhumanism."
The wings spread like this truly is an ancient symbol, used all through
Egypt as a symbol of protection, and in Judaism as a symbol for the
Shekhinah. The fact that the Nazi's borrowed this (far older) symbol, and
perverted it, does not mean that the symbol now refers to them, or to their
ideology whenever anyone uses it from then on.
Actually, the swastika primarily referred to the turning of the wheel of
the heavens in Hindu and Buddhist iconography. I didn't mention that
because it wasn't so much an issue for our symbol, which has the wings and
the wheel, not the swastika... although I guess you could argue that we are
using the wheel in place of the swastika, since the swastika did refer to a
"wheel" of the heavens.
James
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net>wrote:
> The voting members of the association selected the logo among various
> options presented at the time. It is indeed intended to invoke the idea of
> progress, as well as the combination of biology and technology, and perhaps
> even an allusion to Ezekiel's vision in the Old Testament.
>
>
> On Sunday, April 15, 2012, Christian Schumann-Curtis wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:46 PM, David Hamilton <swimquixo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> He is comparing a nazi winged disk to the winged wheel of the MTA.
>>
>>
>> OK, I get that. What's the semiology (like etymology, but for symbols)
>> of the winded wheel? Wikipedia says it represents "progress"... so that
>> makes sense... But when did it start being used as a symbol for progress?
>> Wheels didn't have spokes until the Middle Bronze Age (says wikipedia) so a
>> spoked wheel with wings couldn't have happened before then. The winged
>> wheel does look a lot like the winged sun symbol for Horus, and later Ra so
>> maybe the one evolved into the other. I'll betcha Freemasons were
>> involved. They always are.
>>
>> Lincoln, did you select that symbol? When did whoever selected it learn
>> that it meant "progress"? Where did you see it before deciding to use it
>> for MTA?
>>
>> --
>> Christian Schumann-Curtis
>>
>> christ...@blueskygis.com
>> www.blueskygis.com
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansc
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansc>
>> 503.774.3568
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to transfigurism@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> transfigurism+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
> To post to this group, send email to transfigurism@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> transfigurism+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>
--
Web: http://james.jlcarroll.net
--0023543693d7759e5a04bdcfb645
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Here are some of my comments about this topic ov=
er on the fb group.</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(237,239,244)">I talk about this sort of issue in some depth her=
e:=A0</span><a href=3D"http://amateurscriptorians.blogspot.com/2009/06/lang=
uage-of-symbolsm.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow nofollow" style=3D=
"color:rgb(59,89,152);text-decoration:none;font-family:'lucida grande&#=
39;,tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-al=
ign:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">http://<span class=3D"word_brea=
k" style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>amateurscriptorians.blogspo<span c=
lass=3D"word_break" style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>t.com/2009/06/<sp=
an class=3D"word_break" style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>language-of-s=
ymbolsm.html</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida =
grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px=
;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">=A0and here:=A0</span><=
a href=3D"http://amateurscriptorians.blogspot.com/2009/06/language-of-symbo=
lism-continued.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow nofollow" style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(59,89,152);text-decoration:none;font-family:'lucida grande'=
;,tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-alig=
n:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">http://<span class=3D"word_break"=
style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>amateurscriptorians.blogspo<span cla=
ss=3D"word_break" style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>t.com/2009/06/<span=
class=3D"word_break" style=3D"display:inline-block"></span>language-of-sym=
bolism-conti<span class=3D"word_break" style=3D"display:inline-block"></spa=
n>nued.html</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida g=
rande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">.</span><br style=3D"col=
or:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,s=
ans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left;background-color:=
rgb(237,239,244)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',tahoma=
,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left;b=
ackground-color:rgb(237,239,244)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-f=
amily:'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
x;line-height:10px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">Notic=
e that under the logic of Dragan Micic, Moses was a devil worshiper for bor=
rowing from pagan Egyptian symbolism when revealing the Israelite temple ri=
tual.</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande=
',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-=
align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',tahoma=
,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left;b=
ackground-color:rgb(237,239,244)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-f=
amily:'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
x;line-height:10px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">You c=
an't respond to everyone who complains, but this issue of symbolism is =
important enough, that I would have sent my response above to him, if you h=
adn't removed the email address Lincoln you sly dog you. Oh well. Forwa=
rd my response if you want.</span>=A0<div>
<br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida g=
rande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">In this case, the wheel =
symbol is from the Mormon pioneer heritage ("put your shoulder to the =
wheel"), while the wings were most likely chosen to symbolize transfig=
urism, or "rising above", thus "transhumanism."=A0</spa=
n><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',taho=
ma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left=
;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande',tahoma=
,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:10px;text-align:left;b=
ackground-color:rgb(237,239,244)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-f=
amily:'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
x;line-height:10px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">The w=
ings spread like this truly is an ancient symbol, used all through Egypt as=
a symbol of protection, and in Judaism as a symbol for the Shekhinah. The =
fact that the Nazi's borrowed this (far older) symbol, and perverted it=
, does not mean that the symbol now refers to them, or to their ideology wh=
enever anyone uses it from then on.</span>=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'luc=
ida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:=
10px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(237,239,244)">Actually, the swast=
ika primarily referred to the turning of the wheel of the heavens in Hindu =
and Buddhist iconography. I didn't mention that because it wasn't s=
o much an issue for our symbol, which has the wings and the wheel, not the =
swastika... although I guess you could argue that we are using the wheel in=
place of the swastika, since the swastika did refer to a "wheel"=
of the heavens.</span>=A0<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">James</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Lincoln Ca=
nnon <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:linc...@metacannon.net">lincol=
n...@metacannon.net</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The voting member=
s of the association selected the logo among various options presented at t=
he time. It is indeed intended to invoke the idea of progress, as well as t=
he combination of biology and technology, and perhaps even an allusion to E=
zekiel's vision in the Old Testament.=A0<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><span></span><br>
<br>On Sunday, April 15, 2012, Christian Schumann-Curtis wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 15, =
2012 at 7:46 PM, David Hamilton <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a>swimquixotic@gmail=
.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
He is comparing a nazi winged disk to the winged wheel of the MTA.</blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>OK, I get that. =A0What's the semiology (like e=
tymology, but for symbols) of the winded wheel? Wikipedia says it represent=
s "progress"... so that makes sense... But when did it start bein=
g used as a symbol for progress? Wheels didn't have spokes until the Mi=
ddle Bronze Age (says wikipedia) so a spoked wheel with wings couldn't =
have happened before then. =A0The winged wheel does look a lot like the win=
ged sun symbol for Horus, and later Ra so maybe the one evolved into the ot=
her. =A0I'll betcha Freemasons were involved. They always are.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Lincoln, did you select that symbol? When did whoever s=
elected it learn that it meant "progress"? =A0Where did you see i=
t before deciding to use it for MTA?</div><div><br></div><div>--=A0</div></=
div>
<div>Christian Schumann-Curtis</div><div><br><a>christ...@blueskygis.com</a=
><div><a href=3D"http://www.blueskygis.com" target=3D"_blank">www.blueskygi=
s.com</a></div>
<div>
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Nimbus Sans L',sans-ser=
if;font-size:13px;line-height:15px"><a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/c=
hristiansc" title=3D"View public profile" name=3D"136b982833dac7df_136b92e1=
c1213e46_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHt=
mlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_webProfileURL" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;pa=
dding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0=
px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-style:initial;borde=
r-color:initial;outline-width:initial;outline-style:none;outline-color:init=
ial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:13px;font-family:inher=
it;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,102,153)" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansc</a></span></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansc" title=3D"View publi=
c profile" name=3D"136b982833dac7df_136b92e1c1213e46_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtm=
lFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_webProf=
ileURL" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-l=
eft:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0=
px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;bord=
er-left-width:0px;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;outline-width:i=
nitial;outline-style:none;outline-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-st=
yle:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,102,15=
3)" target=3D"_blank"></a><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, 'Nimbus Sans =
L', sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:15px"><br>
</span></font><a href=3D"tel:503.774.3568" value=3D"+15037743568" target=3D=
"_blank">503.774.3568</a></div></div><br>
<p></p>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a>transfigurism@googlegroups.com</a>.=
<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a>transfigurism+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/transfigurism?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/grou=
p/transfigurism?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
</blockquote>
<p></p>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:transfigurism@google=
groups.com" target=3D"_blank">transfigurism@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:transfiguri=
sm%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">transfigurism+unsubscr=
ibe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/transfigurism?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/grou=
p/transfigurism?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
Web: <a href=3D"http://james.jlcarroll.net" target=3D"_blank">http://james.=
jlcarroll.net</a><br>
</div>
--0023543693d7759e5a04bdcfb645--
Message from discussion QUESTION.
| Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy |
| ©2013 Google |