Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Range of battery buses

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Richard Youl

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Jun 3, 2025, 7:27:19 AMJun 3
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It seems that with the information about the new bus depot they did expect 14 buses but in fact it seems they were only ever 10.

Certainly they have Volgren bodies. I can’t say I have seen any mention of the supplier of the chassis or propulsion.

I have had a plug-in hybrid motor vehicle for 10 years now, and the fact is that the power required to start off the vehicle or climb a hill is much more than is ever received back from regeneration. The best battery mileage is in totally flat countryside.

Our airport buses have luggage racks at the lowest level, so people would not need to climb stairs with their bags.

As I said at the beginning, I would love to see trolley bus wires all over the place, but as the public knows that battery buses exist, despite internal space, weight and other  limitations, it would be very difficult to convince the public that trolleybuses with wires are better. Think of the APS in George St Sydney.


Richard

On 2 Jun 2025, at 3:58 pm, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


As far as I can determine, the operator is Kinetic and these are BYD buses with Volgren bodies? I can only account for ten Kinetic electric buses in ATDB Fleetlists, so I don't know what the other four are.

The 12 metre battery buses used in Australia to date typically have a range of about 350 km or so on a single charge, which is enough for a typical day's operation, thus can be charged overnight. From the mileage you quote, I can see that the longer Gold Coast service would require a top-up during the roster, to be safe. On a flat route, drivers would have to be sure to enable a good amount of regeneration (through deceleration) to keep the endurance up. Obviously, if they aren't regenerating enough, the range will be less.

I've used those BYD buses at Sydney Airport. They're pretty poor for that sort of work with huge stairs up the back making it hard to move around with bags.

This flat-floored battery IMC trolley to Prague Airport is the way to do it - part on wires, part on battery, so no range issue:


Tony P

On Monday, 2 June 2025 at 13:59:31 UTC+10 Richard Youl wrote:

Thanks to everyone who added useful information to this discussion.

I have spoken to 2 drivers of the battery buses which seem to do all the trips between the Broadbeach South tram terminus and Gold Coast airport. Route 777. 

I learned that drivers complete half a shift and then drive back to the depot and while having a meal break, top up the charge.  They use the same bus again for second half.

The length of each one way run is 18km (Google Earth) and doing 4 return trips plus running to and from the depot which is at Currumbin and approx 6 Km from the airport takes almost 4 hours. This equates to close to 227 km per half shift. 

One driver estimates that buses could easily run between 5 and 6 hours on a single charge. 

The run is largely flat although there are 2 or 3 hills to climb. There are 9 intermediate stops between termini. I have had some trips to the airport that only had to stop at a few intermediate stops, so the run was almost as fast as driving your car. 

There are 14 battery buses in the fleet and the Currumbin depot is for battery buses only. 

The major criticism I have to make, as an occasional user of this service, is that although these buses have been fine getting to the airport, they are totally inadequate when a plane or two land at the airport near each other as they have only 32 seats, and consequently can leave passengers behind when they are ‘full’.

US correspondents have stated that harsh winter weather somewhat limits battery range, a problem which does not exist on the Gold Coast. 

So as much as I would like to see new or more trolley bus overhead being erected in city streets, I cannot see that happening now to any large degree.

The battery buses which run the Brisbane ‘Metro’ have still not started running on all the intended routes, and when they do it may be difficult to find information from drivers as they are totally isolated from passengers and the glass between drivers and passengers, when last seen, was covered in paper. 

One story in the newspapers last week reported that the air conditioning of the Brisbane “Metro” buses, built by Hess Switzerland, was not as good as it could be although they claim that adjustments are being made. And this is besides the fact that the last Brisbane summer was largely wet and not terribly hot. A more normal summer could prove “interesting”.


Richard

On 25 May 2025, at 4:04 pm, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


It's not a black and white answer Richard because the more batteries you load on board, the more you have to reduce the passenger capacity in order to keep the axle load within limits. So it's a bit self-defeating if you increase the range with more batteries but then can't carry as many people. In NSW, battery buses typically have a range of about 350 km, but their capacity is reduced to about 60, compared to 70 to 80 for a diesel bus. In Europe they place a lot of value on passenger capacity, so their ranges are typically less than 250 km. This is why the battery trolleybus is so popular in Europe, because it's not range-restricted and can carry more people, so it does the heavy work while straight battery buses are confined to quieter routes. Of course, there they also have great numbers of tram and metro systems to do heavy lifting, so not so reliant on buses anyway.

Tony P

On Sunday, 25 May 2025 at 08:58:22 UTC+10 Richard Youl wrote:
Hi Brent,

Do you know how far these electrics can go on a single charge? 

I am in discussion with some Americans and to date the few places which promised battery buses in place of trolley buses have had poor results.

Didn’t Wellington also make similar promises? How has that worked out? 


Richard

On 25 May 2025, at 8:30 am, 'Brent Efford' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Perhaps operating practice in Australia is different, but in NZ there wouldn’t be many PT vehicles of any mode which operate continuously 18 hours a day, with no inter-peak downtime. Go to any bus depot or rail stabling yard here at midday and there will be plenty of vehicles waiting for school + pm peak duty – while drivers endure the hated split shifts. Rostering battery charging during this downtime doesn’t seem to be an issue – and the reduced time that BEBs spend in the workshops compared with diesels improves availability, too. 

Some of the longest bus routes including open road speeds – like the #83 Eastbourne in Wellington or the #1 from south Christchurch to Rangiora, are now worked by electrics. And the Orbiter in Christchurch, a continuous circular route, is now electric – but even if it means buying a few more BEBs, it would be hard to envisage it being wired for trolleybuses! https://www.metroinfo.co.nz/news/celebrating-our-acceleration-into-our-electric-future/

Brent Efford

On 24 May 2025, at 3:08 PM, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

On the long circle route 998/999, the range of the batteries will not be sufficient to support a single bus operating the service all day, so they'll have to restructure the roster to enable another bus to take over during the day while the first bus goes off for recharging. This is one reason why, with battery buses, you need to buy more of them to maintain the same level of service. A diesel or trolley bus wouldn't have this issue.

Tony P

On Saturday, 24 May 2025 at 12:34:59 UTC+10 Bob Pearce wrote:

Ummm,

 

I understand it is not.

 

Buggered up the roads, just as the warnings stated.

 

Bob in Perth

 

From: 'Brent Efford' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 24 May 2025 10:13 AM
To: TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Perth bus fleet to be all-electric

 

The way the world is going. All without wires, too. Shame on them :).

BTW – how is the much-vaunted sham (sorry, "trackless") "tram" in that fair city turning out? The silence in both the professional and enthusiast media is puzzling.

 

Brent Efford

 

On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 11:15:45 PM UTC+12 TP wrote:

The last diesel bus has been delivered to the Transport fleet. Ferries will also ultimately be all-electric.

 

 

Tony P

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