POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"
Ilias Lazaridis
the comment:
"editing descriptions is limited to administrators and we're capable of
making that judgement on our own"
http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=29
-
My change relates to the following ticket:
"
I've noticed that ticket descriptions are changed.
Ticket descriptions are "original content", that should not be changed.
That's way comments are fore. Only the original author should change
his own wording.
If the team decides to not protect "original content", then it should
be possible to track the changes, thus anyone can verify who's written
what.
see #4297 for an example
(this should be clarified within the relevant project documentation)
"
http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4299
-
mgood, you may be capable to make judgements (and to judge yourself
your judging abilities), although I start to doubt this [1]
I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
Until then, you should refrain from altering any ticket descriptions,
which is a *very* serious issue.
As for my personal ticket descriptions and comments:
I do *not* give to anyone the permission to alter the descriptions
within the tickets I've filed (my 'original content').
It is not the "TICKET_ADMIN" permission that give you the right to
alter ticket-descriptions, but the originator of those
ticket-descriptions.
You can inform users (e.g. within this red screen whe filing the
tickets) or wihtin a general document.
-
[1]
as a sidenote: I doubt your judgement abilities, rating from different
other issues and from this one:
http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4317#comment:11
.
Brad Anderson
Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
things done to your satisfaction? Isn't that time here now?
BA
[1] I have no link to back this up. Merely wishful thinking.
Ilias Lazaridis
...
> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> things done to your satisfaction? Isn't that time here now?
not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
months.
But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.
> BA
>
> [1] I have no link to back this up. Merely wishful thinking.
>
> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere
People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
out of the projects.
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> Brad Anderson wrote:
> ...
> > Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> > things done to your satisfaction? Isn't that time here now?
>
> not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
>
> RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
correct link:
http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/3cc829e38cc6047b
.
Brad Anderson
> Brad Anderson wrote:
> ...
>> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
>> things done to your satisfaction? Isn't that time here now?
>
> not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
>
> RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
>
> Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
> goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
> to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
> months.
>
> But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
> and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.
Can't wait for that.
>> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere
>
> People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
> the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
> out of the projects.
Interesting. So I'm a FOSS hater. Weird, because my company wouldn't be
where it is without FOSS. We are avid users. In addition, I might dare say
the D Programming Language has been helped by my efforts at dsource.org.
All I can say about your efforts with Trac is that you annoy everyone in the
mailing lists and you can't seem to take a hint that nobody wants your help.
Please leave.
BA
P.S. Trac devs, if I've misinterpreted anything in this message, please
respond and correct me.
Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai
>I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
>Until then, you should refrain from altering any ticket descriptions,
>which is a *very* serious issue.
The team's service, their right to use and alter. I doubt you'll find that
intellectual property applies. And even then, it's a mix of different
countries, what might be illegal to do for one person due to his country's
laws might be totally ok for another.
>As for my personal ticket descriptions and comments:
>
>I do *not* give to anyone the permission to alter the descriptions
>within the tickets I've filed (my 'original content').
Given the fact you already asked one project to back out all your previous
patches I am personally very cautious touching anything that bears your name.
You are starting to show the exact same behaviour. You come preaching about
open source and saying you want to help out, but in the end you're just ending
up as a major disruption in any open source project I've seen your name appear
in.
--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン
http://www.in-nomine.org/
Seize from every moment its unique novelty and do not prepare your joys...
Ilias Lazaridis
> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> > Brad Anderson wrote:
> > ...
> >> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> >> things done to your satisfaction? Isn't that time here now?
> >
> > not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
> >
> > RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> > http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
> >
> > Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
> > goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
> > to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
> > months.
> >
> > But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
> > and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.
>
> Can't wait for that.
>
> >> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere
> >
> > People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
> > the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
> > out of the projects.
>
> Interesting. So I'm a FOSS hater. Weird, because my company wouldn't be
> where it is without FOSS. We are avid users. In addition, I might dare say
> the D Programming Language has been helped by my efforts at dsource.org.
I'm not interested to listen to your weired conclusions and
elaborations.
My sayings refrere mainly to your inability to tolerate a different
working-methodology.
And to tenor like "getthefuckoutofhere".
> All I can say about your efforts with Trac is that you annoy everyone in the
> mailing lists and you can't seem to take a hint that nobody wants your help.
> Please leave.
I've really not the time for your off-topic whining (within this _very_
serious and sensitive topic)
You are of course free to open another thread to discuss whatever you
like.
> P.S. Trac devs, if I've misinterpreted anything in this message, please
> respond and correct me.
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (il...@lazaridis.com) wrote:
> >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
>
> You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
The policy does not subject me alone.
It is of general validity.
> >Until then, you should refrain from altering any ticket descriptions,
> >which is a *very* serious issue.
>
> The team's service, their right to use and alter. I doubt you'll find that
> intellectual property applies. And even then, it's a mix of different
> countries, what might be illegal to do for one person due to his country's
> laws might be totally ok for another.
You are wrong.
My (and any other writings) are protected by international law (to
which most countries comply).
But: leaving "original content" of persons intact (or at least provide
visible change-logs) is a matter of courtesy and ethically clean
behaviour.
An *this* is the point in this topic.
> >As for my personal ticket descriptions and comments:
> >
> >I do *not* give to anyone the permission to alter the descriptions
> >within the tickets I've filed (my 'original content').
>
> Given the fact you already asked one project to back out all your previous
> patches I am personally very cautious touching anything that bears your name.
You should be only *very* cautious to touch publically the personal
reputation of an individual - not only because this can hit back on
your own reputation.
Within the other project, I have asked for deletion or working results
which remained unpayed (commercial context).
This was additionally a verification of a copyright-payment-guarantee:
http://case.lazaridis.com/wiki/CopyrightPaymentGuarantee
Again, all results are publically available, thus other entities can
benefit from them.
> You are starting to show the exact same behaviour.
"exact" is a very critical word.
for sure, those 2 things:
a) "leave my 'original content' untouched and provide a general
project-policy for this"
b) "please pay the open invoices, or delete the related results".
cannot be matched with 'exact'.
Except in context 'rights'.
I share, but yes, I protect of course my rights.
> You come preaching about
> open source and saying you want to help out, but in the end you're just ending
> up as a major disruption in any open source project I've seen your name appear
> in.
The _users_ of the _products_ can judge the final results (and
projects).
So, I hope we can go back to the topic of this thread.
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> mgood has removed an addition to the TracTicketTriage completely, with
> the comment:
>
> "editing descriptions is limited to administrators and we're capable of
> making that judgement on our own"
>
> http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=29
I've just noticed that an alternative passage was added:
http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=30
http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4299#comment:8
Thank's a lot for the quick reaction and my apologies if I sounded
harsh (but I'm very sensitive in issues subject "rights" and "original
content").
Once again, thank's a lot!
.
Erik Huelsmann
>
> Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:
> > -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (il...@lazaridis.com) wrote:
> > >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
> >
> > You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> > answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
>
> The policy does not subject me alone.
That's right, but you're the only one bothered by it. Please stop
these 'you should do <something>' mails. We/they don't.
bye,
Erik.
Manuzhai
> Can't wait for that.
Can Mr. Lazaridis just be banned, from mailing list and t.e.o? He's
undermining progress of the Trac project.
http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/difficult-people.html
Regards,
Manuzhai
Ilias Lazaridis
Ο/Η Manuzhai έγραψε:
> On 12/4/06, Brad Anderson <br...@dsource.org> wrote:
> > Can't wait for that.
>
> Can Mr. Lazaridis just be banned, from mailing list and t.e.o?
of course.
* Provide the relavant policies within the project.
* Accuse me for violation of policies
* Proove those violations
* Say good by
> He's undermining progress of the Trac project.
>
> http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/difficult-people.html
Nice try!
.
Ilias Lazaridis
> On 12/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:
> > > -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (il...@lazaridis.com) wrote:
> > > >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
> > >
> > > You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> > > answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
> >
> > The policy does not subject me alone.
>
> That's right, but you're the only one bothered by it.
...which is enouth to require an action.
> Please stop these 'you should do <something>' mails. We/they don't.
As you've seen, 'they' had reacted in this case:
http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=30
why? - Because they had to react.
-
They had reacted in many other cases, too (although some times
'silently').
why? - Because they had to react.
-
They will react in most of the other isses, too (which are currently
'halted'):
http://trac.edgewall.org/query?group=resolution&reporter=ilias%40lazaridis.com&order=priority
why?
.