Punishment for the Innocents around the World but Honors and Pardons for the
GUILTY!!!
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/
Conservative <http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/>
Lawyers Urge Bush To Issue 'Pre-Emptive Pardons' To Officials Involved In
Illegal Programs>
The New York Times reported
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19pardon.html?_r=1&pagewanted=al...
=slogin> this weekend that "[f]elons are asking President Bush for pardons
and commutations at historic levels as he nears his final months in office,
a time when many other presidents have granted a flurry of clemency
requests." However the Times noted that despite commuting
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/02/AR200...
0825.html> Scooter Libby's prison sentence, applicants "should expect
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19pardon.html?_r=1&pagewanted=al...
=slogin> to be disappointed" because Bush "has made little use of his
clemency power" compared to past presidents.
Except perhaps if you participated in any illegal activity involving the
Bush administration's controversial counterterrorism programs. According to
the Times, "several members of the conservative legal community" in
Washington D.C. are urging Bush to issue "pre-emptive pardons" to those
involved so as to "not be exposed even to the risk of an investigation and
expensive legal bills":
Such a pardon would reduce the risk that a future administration might
undertake a criminal investigation of operatives or policy makers involved
in programs that administration lawyers have said were legal but that
critics say violated laws regarding torture and surveillance.
Some legal analysts said Mr. Bush might be reluctant to issue such pardons
because they could be construed as an implicit admission of guilt. [.]
"The president should pre-empt any long-term investigations," said Victoria
Toensing, who was a Justice Department counterterrorism official in the
Reagan administration. "If we don't protect these people who are proceeding
in good faith, no one will ever take chances."
Stuart Taylor, Jr., a constitutional law fellow
<http://www.brookings.edu/experts/t/taylors.aspx> at Brookings, agrees,
saying in a recent Newsweek column
<http://www.newsweek.com/id/145842/output/print> that investigations into
the Bush administration's "high level 'war crimes'" are a "bad idea" and
instead called for a "truth <http://www.newsweek.com/id/145842/output/print>
commission":
A criminal investigation would only hinder efforts to determine the truth,
and preclude any apologies. It would spur those who know the most to take
the Fifth. Any prosecutions would also touch off years of partisan warfare.
[.]
Absent pardons, pressure to go after GOP "war criminals" would make it very
hard to unite Americans of all stripes behind solutions to the many economic
and social challenges facing the country.
In fact, the conservative D.C. lawyer circuit may just get its wish. The
White House "would
<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19pardon.html?_r=1&pagewanted=al...
=slogin> not say whether the administration was considering pre-emptive
pardons, nor whether it would rule them out." (HT: Dan
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/07/21/BL200807...
1_5.html> Froomkin)
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114 Responses to "Conservative Lawyers Urge Bush To Issue 'Pre-Emptive
Pardons' To Officials Involved In Illegal Programs"
1. Zooey <http://tpzoo.wordpress.com> Says:
_____
Shorter Bush: Go forth and sin some more.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103362>
_____
2. Zooey <http://tpzoo.wordpress.com> Says:
_____
"Begging your pardon, sir."
"Oh, alright. You're pardoned."
"But you don't know what I did."
"Doesn't matter. Wait until I tell you what I did."
July 21st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103364>
_____
3. TeleMan <http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/> Says:
_____
How the fsck is this even legal?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:13 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103366>
_____
4. questioneverything Says:
_____
I have no doubt that Bush will pardon anyone who might be bothered by
excessive legal bills. It's all about their precious money. Victoria
Toensing is an apologist of the first order and she needs to be investigated
herself.
Pardon me, but I think millions of people will take great exception to a
pardon for KKKarl or the Dick. There are many others, who if they were now
under impeachment, couldn't be pardoned. But of course, Pelosi will stand in
the way. Call me fried.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:15 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103368>
_____
5. 5th <http://at5thestate.blogspot.com/> Estate Says:
_____
I don't remember Saddam Hussein, who was supported by Reagan's
administration during the Iran-Iraq war and supplied him various with
chemical weapons which he used on Iranians and Kurds, getting a pardon for
HIS war crimes, do you?
I don't recall any US politicians insisting that Slobodan Milosevic be
pardoned so that "the truth" could be properly discovered instead of being
hidden, do you?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:17 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103372>
_____
6. IBTunion4obama <http://radfordrep...@blogspot.com> Says:
_____
They make me want to take my American flag and hide it. I'm ashamed of the
continued abuse of power and law breaking.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:19 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103374>
_____
7. Wayne A. <http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/> Schneider Says:
_____
"The president should pre-empt any long-term investigations," said Victoria
Toensing, who was a Justice Department counterterrorism official in the
Reagan administration. "If we don't protect these people who are proceeding
in good faith, no one will ever take chances."
"Take chances"? On what, Vicky? On getting caught breaking the law? because
there should never have been any question that these people broke the law,
so on what were they taking chances?
Absent pardons, pressure to go after GOP "war criminals" would make it very
hard to unite Americans of all stripes behind solutions to the many economic
and social challenges facing the country.
With all due respect, Mr. Taylor, there are some people in this country who
I don't want standing behind my back. And most of them have been standing
behind this president's back. And some of them are standing behind McCain's
back right now.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:20 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103376>
_____
8. Jane <http://www.pickwaynesbrain.blogspot.com> E. Schneider Says:
_____
"If we don't protect these people who are proceeding in good faith, no one
will ever take chances."
Even in her 'argument' for wholesale pardons, Ms. Toensing's words "take
chances" negates the idea of "good faith" innocence. Particularly in the
telecoms cases: Qwest's lawyers said 'no' because they believed that it was
unConstitutional. And they were right.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103382>
_____
9. Jess Wonderin Says:
_____
If we accept that ANY President can exercise ultimate "decidin'" and all
acts become "legal" with the knowledge that "pardons all around" will cover
any actions seals the complete loss of any pretense of "Democracy" . . . why
bother with elections, decrees will do - seems to have worked under Bush . .
.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103388>
_____
10. Wayne A. <http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/> Schneider Says:
_____
Doesn't any of this cross the line into Obstruction of Justice at some
point?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103390>
_____
11. BushHater Says:
_____
Can he pardon himself?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:31 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103392>
_____
12. Above the Clouds Says:
_____
Bush's legacy is already one on par with Nixon, what's the issue with one
more open sore on the body politic? Bush can pardon all he wants-his whole
tenure has been one crime and cover-up after another-but history will not be
kind to war criminals like him.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:32 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103394>
_____
13. Jane <http://www.pickwaynesbrain.blogspot.com> E. Schneider Says:
_____
Zooey Says:
".Doesn't matter. Wait until I tell you what I did."
July 21st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Zooey, if you don't mind, I'd like to offer a minor variation: ".It can't be
as bad as what I did!"
July 21st, 2008 at 10:32 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103396>
_____
14. Wayne A. <http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/> Schneider Says:
_____
BushHater Says:
Can he pardon himself?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Not even Nixon dared try to do that. But my own fear is that Bush will
pardon Cheney for any and all crimes he may have committed (in or out of
office, as Bush will "forget" to stipulate that it was while serving as VP,
just like Ford did for Nixon) on Jan 19, 2009, and then he will resign his
presidency effective immediately. Cheney will take the "Oath" of Office, and
then, during his one-day presidency, he will give Bush the same kind of
pardon. And there's nothing anybody can do about it as long as they remain
in office until then.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:35 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103398>
_____
15. Innocent Bystander Says:
_____
Whats to worry about if you've done nothing wrong? We let these bastards off
80's (Iran-Contra) and the 90's (BCCI)..if we do it again, the next time
struggle back and recover, they'll be back to kill this country for good.
Time for some serious justice and accountability to be applied to the war
criminals and the war profiteers.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:41 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103402>
_____
16. spencers mom Says:
_____
Wayne A. Schneider Says:
Doesn't any of this cross the line into Obstruction of Justice at some
point?
Well, sure, but only if you have an impartial judiciary.
Wait, isn't impartiality the basis of justice?
Sorry, asked and answered my own question.
PEACE
July 21st, 2008 at 10:44 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103404>
_____
17. Hussein McCain Says:
_____
Pardon my Bush, sounds like something I'd say to a foreign acquaintance.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:48 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103410>
_____
18. Paul W <http://progressiveworldreview.com> Says:
_____
"The president should pre-empt any long-term investigations," said Victoria
Toensing, who was a Justice Department counterterrorism official in the
Reagan administration. "If we don't protect these people who are proceeding
in good faith, no one will ever take chances."
I think she meant that if they don't protect the law breakers no one will
ever want to break the law again. What a novel idea.
In this country if you, for example, smoke the crack that the government
allowed to be brought into this country you end up in a penitentiary for a
long time. But if you violate the constitutional rights of those you've
sworn to serve you end up a highly paid lobbiest.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 21st, 2008 at 10:50 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103414>
_____
19. 5th <http://at5thestate.blogspot.com/> Estate Says:
_____
" a future administration might undertake a criminal investigation of
operatives or policy makers involved in programs that administration lawyers
have said were legal but that critics say violated laws regarding torture
and surveillance. "
Geez and I thought when the legality of policy or action is questioned it
can be and often is argued through the court system.
This pre-emptive pardoning crap isn;t just an attempt to keep likely
criminals out of jail, it's an attempt to prevent any investigation and to
sideline the judicial system.
If these administration lawyers arguments are so effing good that they can
assure high officials all the way down to the minions that torture is A-OK,
then they can damn well make their case in court!
And if the judges opinions go against them the officials can say it;s the
lawyers fault!
And the judges can then say "ignorance of the law is no excuse".
July 21st, 2008 at 10:58 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103422>
_____
20. Hussein McCain Says:
_____
Dick Morris seemed overly-coked up tonight on Fox. He's really afraid of
Obama, called him a socialist. I think this is code for "Negro".
July 21st, 2008 at 11:07 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103430>
_____
21. christopher wiwi Says:
_____
If we want America`s good name restored the SHRUB shouldn't`t be allowed to
pardon anyone else no matter what.Ti`s time for Pelosi to strap on the BRASS
and stick it to the Fascist PIGS on the right...
July 21st, 2008 at 11:08 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103432>
_____
22. AlphaLiberal <http://alphaliberal.blogspot.com/> Says:
_____
Oh, well if Ken Starr crony Stuart Taylor says we should pardon a whole
bunch of people to avoid messy disagreements, then Bush definitely should
not pardon anyone.
Stuart Taylor says the nation can't stand all that justice of bringing
torturers to the bar. But the same guy was knee deep in blow job politics.
More on hypocrite Stuart Taylor:
http://www.slate.com/id/2085/
http://www.observer.com/node/40428
http://www.observer.com/node/40386
July 21st, 2008 at 11:19 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103442>
_____
23. bumpkis Says:
_____
Technical question.if IMPEACHMENT charges are filed in the HOUSE, does that
NOT prevent Bush for issuing Pardons for anyone who may be involved in the
crimes surrounding those charges? Kucinich laundry list should apply here.
Just fricken charge him already.prevent any pardons.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:27 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103444>
_____
24. pete Says:
_____
Sorry for the OT, but, Wikipedia ran an article on a BBC documentary called
The Power of Nightmares. It will never be broadcast in this country but the
whole three hours is on YouTube. It is, far and away, the best examination
of the origins of the "war" between neocons and whoever they hate at the
moment.
The Wiki article is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
And the first YouTube installment is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjY_E7bYDVw
July 21st, 2008 at 11:31 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103446>
_____
25. had enough Says:
_____
Conservative Lawyers Urge Bush To Issue 'Pre-Emptive Pardons' To Officials
Involved In Illegal Programs>
And I suppose We the People who have also been 'Shocked and Awed' by the
gangsters that have taken over the White House, now see this attitude as
business as usual. Is there no hope. where is Reid and Pelosi?
In order to begin the healing process of our country and others around the
world.
TO EACH AND EVERY GUILTY PERSON IN THAT THUG ADMINISTRATION, JUSTICE MUST
PREVAIL
July 21st, 2008 at 11:32 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103448>
_____
26. 5th <http://at5thestate.blogspot.com/> Estate Says:
_____
pete.
I watched Nightmares last year (?) ages ago anyway.
A great site is "The Dossier"-tons of brilliant documentaries, investigative
journalism and brilliant and extremely well informed satire by John Bird.
P.S. I've been really enjoying your longer comments on some of the other
threads. Smart stuff.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:43 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103452>
_____
27. had enough Says:
_____
What are we supposed to do with the anger accumulated over this continued
crime of every degree including mass murder from this thug administration?
We hopelessly watch Pelosi illegally take impeachment off the table. Let us
not forget
repressed anger creates depression
Looking the other way, having no hope and waiting for the next
administration to do better is not healthy.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:45 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103454>
_____
28. Alecto <http://www.thisinstead.info> Says:
_____
AHEM,
The Hauge cares not for our pardons.
Off to the ICC for WAR CRIMES, the bunch of ya.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103456>
_____
29. RUCerious Says:
_____
If BushitCo issues pardons, they're only good for a get out of prosecution
in the US..
Nothing about Den Hague.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103458>
_____
30. 5th <http://at5thestate.blogspot.com/> Estate Says:
_____
here's a to the serious videos
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_iraqwar.htm
and for the amazingly informed hilarious stuff, look for " Bird and Fortune
" on the Dossier site or Google video that name
the best are on the Iraq War and the Sub-Prime Market ( also on the British
Army). The subprime one is breathtaking in that it explains how the subprime
market worked and what it scam it was but it was made practically BEFORE
anyone here in the US had even heard of it.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103460>
_____
31. Game of Life Says:
_____
If the repugs abuse the 5th can they be charge with contempt?
Will the "pre-emptive" pardons (another ridiculous term) include their names
or is it fill-in the blanks?
The House's job is to defend the constitution. If they can't do their job
then they are complcite in the repugs crimes. I can stand a long criminal
investigation.
What the hell if chimpy can give up 5 yrs of golf the least the House can do
is to take at least 5 yrs to put crooks in jail. We have a time horizon.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:52 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103462>
_____
32. Alecto <http://www.thisinstead.info> Says:
_____
And BTW, you cannot pardon TREASON.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:54 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103466>
_____
33. WaltTheMan Says:
_____
bumpkis,
Unfortunately, the President has full powers until actually convicted and
removed from office. It is one of the holes in the balance of powers created
by technology. When the Constitution was written, it took weeks to carry a
message across the Atlantic. Now it takes mere hours to deliver a
devastating strike against a foe half a world away without Congressional
involvement.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:59 pm
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103472>
_____
34. had enough Says:
_____
From what I have heard, Bush will lose all powers of pardon if going through
impeachment and/or is indicted. Also, could it be Conyers will look at
Kucinich's article of impeachment later this week.. heard something of this
today on AAR. Never get my hopes up anymore.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:07 am
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6#comment-5103476>
_____
35. pete Says:
_____
5th Estate Says:
July 21st, 2008 at 11:43 pm
July 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Thanx for the link and kind words. I try to do what I can.
My dad always said I was good at spotting obscure connections. Of course he
also said I have a knack for "making the unpleasant sound downright
excruciating" and "tripping on my foreskin". He was pretty damn smart
himself.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:26 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103482>
_____
36. Jim Wilke Says:
_____
August 1999: Bill Clinton pardons 16 members of FALN, a radical Puerto Rican
group. The Senate votes 95-2 and the House votes 311-41 to condemn this
action.
January 2000: Bill Clinton pardons 140 people on his last day of office,
including fugitive financier Mark Rich.
Over his 8 year term, Bill Clinton pardons or commutes over 450 criminals.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:33 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103486>
_____
37. dbadass Says:
_____
Hi Jim
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103490>
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38. RandomChaos Says:
_____
Jim Wilke Says: Reapeatedly moronic shit.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:43 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103492>
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39. Max-1 <http://www.oldamericancentury.org/index.htm> Says:
_____
.
Preemptive Pardons.?
Pardoned for what offense or criminal act.
They now have legal immunity!
To pardon is to excuse a criminal offense committed. Is Victoria Toensing
asserting a crime WAS committed that needs a pardon? REALLY!!!! What is that
crime Vickie.?
Q U E S T I O N:
WHY HAS QWEST NOT BEEN SUED BY THE ADMINISTRATION TO COMPLY WITH THEIR
DIRECTIVE TO ASSIST IN SPYING ON AMERICAN CITIZENS.?
. Perhaps Qwest was obeying the law and a lawsuit would easily be defended
and expose the crime syndicate for what THEY(sic) are. THEY(sic) WHO HATE US
FOR OUR FREEDOMS AND SEEK TO UNDERMINE AND UNDO AMERICAN'S RIGHTS, FREEDOMS
and LIBERTIES!
QUESTION FOR THE PEOPLE
HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO FORSAKE FOR THIS FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY? WHAT
DO YOU DESERVE? WHEN WILL YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH? HOW MANY MORE
ELECTIONS ARE YOU WILLING TO B!TCH ABOUT BEFORE YOU DEMAND YOUR VOTE BE
COUNTED PROPERLY? WHEN WILL YOU BE WILLING TO ACTUALLY SPILL YOUR BLOOD FOR
YOUR COUNTRY?
.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103496>
_____
40. Game of Life Says:
_____
I don't care if chimpy gave out the Medal of Honor. Pardons and medals mean
nothing in this reckless admin to me. They'll still be crooks and liars.
I hope when they present their damn piece of papers it will not be worth the
paper its printed on.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:48 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103498>
_____
41. Briseadh na <http://tpz.wordpress.com> Faire Says:
_____
Such blanket, pre-emptive pardons will open the door for INTERNATIONAL WAR
CRIMES TRIBUNALS.
One of the prerequisites for international jurisdiction is clear and
convincing evidence that the individual's own country is unwilling or unable
to conduct domestic tribunals for war crimes committed by the individual.
Should Bush issue such pardons, that would be conclusive evidence as to that
issue.
Anyone Bush issues such a pardon to would be subject to universal
jurisdiction. And 'merika has already established a precedent of kidnapping
individuals around the globe and holding them indefinitely without
charges..these people are going to have to watch their backs for the rest of
their lives - and so will their children and grandchildren. Karma is
patient, and her debt will be repaid.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:59 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103510>
_____
42. pete Says:
_____
Um Jim? Bill Clinton is no longer President and never will be again. Chimpy,
however, is still in office and just may be able to give his new partner in
crime, McPander Bear, the Presidency. This would be a tragedy of epic
proportions and could very well be the final chapter in the Great American
Experiment.
Though, even if the Republicriminals hold the White House, a Democratic
super majority just might be able to mitigate some of the damage.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:00 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103512>
_____
43. kasinca Says:
_____
(R) after the name is enough to warrant a pardon. They are all crooked
bastards.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103516>
_____
44. kasinca Says:
_____
Jim Wilke Says:
How many criminals were pardoned in the Nixon, Reagan, Bush I
administrations? How many of those thugs are wanting to be pardoned again by
this crime family.
Get your sh!t straight, Jim. The rethuglicans hold the record.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:06 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103524>
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45. Alecto <http://www.thisinstead.info> Says:
_____
Hey Jim,
How many "inside of his administration" pre-ordained criminals did Clinton
pardon? Hmmmm? None.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:20 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103528>
_____
46. xtro Says:
_____
Where were the truth commissions when you guys (the government) spent the
past 20 years locking up almost two million african americans, mostly on
non-violent offenses. Where was the truth commission to expose the Reagan
administration and CIA's direct involvement in sending drugs into urban
cities in the 80's, which the government then used to justify the "War on
Drugs" and that resulting 2million+ incarcerated.
We need NUREMBURG. Imagine a "truth commission" exposing the Bush
administration designing, orchestrating, and carrying out the 9/11
attacks..and then letting them all go! Thats not all. The same folks who
brought you 9/11 were also responsible for the Bali attacks, the london 7/7
attacks, the Madrid bombing, and a host of other attacks we don't even know
about. The global community would DEMAND war crimes trials. The people at
the top should go to jail. The little guys who were following orders, yes I
could see them maybe getting some kind of public mark on their car license
or house and life parole, but there are people at the top who knowingly
orchestrated the deaths of thousands..of Americans. This ain't the kinda
place that forgives something like that. Come on America..make us proud.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103530>
_____
47. ucsbclassics53 Says:
_____
The very same CONservatives who gave Clinton hell for his pardons.especially
to Marc Rich.
How rich and how ironic, oh maybe not ironic, they are conservatives devoid
of principle after all.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:07 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103536>
_____
48. Blame Canada Says:
_____
Of course conservatives are hoping for pardons but so are the Democrats in
Washington. That way they won't have to keep saying that impeachment is off
the table because they allowed the President to take the table.
It's fantasy to think that any criminal charges are going to be brought
against anyone in the Bush admin. It just isn't going to happen. We can all
thank the Republicans AND the Democrats for that.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:26 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103554>
_____
49. Jim Wilke Says:
_____
Pardons or commuted:
G.W.Bush - 163 to date
Clinton - 456
G.H.W. Bush - 75
Reagan - 406
Carter - 563
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103556>
_____
50. Uosdwis Says:
_____
YES, the House Judiciary Committee can stop pardons just by STARTING
impeachment hearings. They don't have to actually issue articles of
impeachment, vote on them, or have a trial in the Senate. This also lets
Pelosi off the hook, because she can say "impeachMENT" is off the table, not
investigation. It's a win-win. But will they do it? Probably not. The other
thing is, since these guys are so averse to admitting fault, a pardon is de
facto an admission of guilt from the pardoned. And it doesn't look good for
Bush to take such a craven act, but I fully expect it from him. The
difference between this and Clinton pardoning Mr. Rich is that Mr. Rich
WASN'T A CO-CONSPIRATOR with the pardoner.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:45 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103558>
_____
51. pete Says:
_____
Still confused Jim?
Once again, the actions of past administrations don't mitigate the scandals
of the current one. Also, I'm pretty sure that previous Presidents, with the
exception of Ford's pardon of Nixon, have not handed out preemptive pardons
to administration officials. And I'm dead certain that no past President has
been offered a list of people to pardon in order to ensure their silence and
prevent civil litigation.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:00 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103560>
_____
52. Jim Wilke Says:
_____
Check post #44:
How many criminals were pardoned in the Nixon, Reagan, Bush I
administrations? How many of those thugs are wanting to be pardoned again by
this crime family.
Get your sh!t straight, Jim. The rethuglicans hold the record.
This simply isn't true.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103562>
_____
53. Justice HiredGun Says:
_____
I posted this on another site but it fits here.
I am a new member and registered to post this.
Gun
Whoever takes over for Herr Bush(feel sorry for him) after the next election
has got the work cut out.
1) To reapir a failing US Local economy
2) To repair the rep of the US in World View..
Not trying to flame anything here..but the actions of the private
contractors
(and what the hell are private contractors interogating prosiners for
anyway..but that aniother fish to fry)
in Abu Ghraib and the inaction(and actions) of the military personel there
who were supposed to be protecting the POW as well as guarding POW.refer to
Vietnam for mistreatment experience of POW and sometimes how effective it
was and how Commanders know this in gather intelligence.
(waterboarding was a normal and effictive tatic of the NVA.showing my age
here)
Also as well shipping them to Gitmo for interrogation instead of a Military
Base in the US(where they would have had rights the second they touched US
soil..as POW instead of "Enemy Combatants") did more moral damage to future
Americans in a War Situation than anything else. "waterboarding" actions
aside"
Lets say for example we have a WW III.what is to stop the "enemy" from using
these tatics .we did. womens panties on the head of a Muslim or dominance by
a woman over a man is so unclean as to deny them admittance to "Heaven"( I
am generalizing here for laymen).that is just cold blooded toture
<>Example of the oppisite extreme here.someone said to a Catholic that Mary
was a whore before she had Jesus(end hypothosize there)
3) Social Security and the other normal "background noise" they have to look
at at least.
4) Enviromentialists concerns..Global Warming.ect.carbon emissions
I am just glad that it is not me running for all this stress.give me a large
computer network and I can walk you thru it as I would show you my tattoos
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103566>
_____
54. Justice HiredGun Says:
_____
Sorry My typing is rough.it is 5am
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:48 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103568>
_____
55. kuvasz Says:
_____
why does bush just start handing out get out of jail cards as christmas
gifts
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:08 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103570>
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56. beltman713 Says:
_____
I really don't think this will hold up. The minute Bush is out of office,
any pre-emptive pardons he might have issued won't be worth the paper
they're printed on.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:15 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103572>
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57. MyFreedomWings <http://www.xanga.com/MyFreedomWings> Says:
_____
*clears my throat*
[official newscaster voice]
"Bush was then quoted saying, 'Screw that! I'm pardoning myself!'"
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:22 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103574>
_____
58. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
Please, Bush, use the same clemency you granted the inmates in the death row
when you were Governor!
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103596>
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59. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
IT'S A WAR!!!!!
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:40 am
Congress has NEVER declared a war. So, no, it's not a war.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:18 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103598>
_____
60. chomot Says:
_____
Don't you have to be convicted of a crime first before you can be pardoned?
I can see this as an admission of guilt as well as an admission of knowing
they should not have been engaging in the questionable activities to start
with.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:50 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103610>
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61. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
Congress voted to support it. What would you call voting to support it?
Semi-declaring? Almost-declaring? Silly boy.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
You don't know the proper proceedings in your own political system to
declare a war, but I'm the silly boy?
A declaration of war has a precise format, and the Patriot Act NEVER doesn't
fit that format, because a declaration of war defines both rights and
OBLIGATIONS of the CiC, and Bush wasn't willing to be restricted in any way
back in 2003.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103612>
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62. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:44 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution
The War Powers Act of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148), also referred to as the War
Powers Resolution, is a resolution of the Congress of The United States of
America that stated that the President of The United States of America can
send troops into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the
United States of America is already under attack or serious threat. The War
Powers Act requires that the president notify Congress within 48 hours of
committing troops to military action and forbids troops from remaining for
more than 60 days without an authorization of force or a declaration of war.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:01 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103616>
_____
63. cpmondello <http://www.CoreyMondello.com> Says:
_____
Why is this "legal"?
I think there should be a movement to BAN pardons.
A pardon is basically a "get out of jail free" card..literally.
As we see with immunity given to law breakers by those we elect to represent
us, something needs to be done.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I do not care if the "powerful people" get away with murder and breaking
laws, I call for all people to do the same things they do..just do it more
secretively!!!!
Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts
http://www.CoreyMondello.com
7-22-08
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:07 am
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0#comment-5103620>
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64. RantingTommy Says:
_____
awww, poor little scared ronguell
shorter ronguell: "I'm too scared to be free! take my rights please!"
Republicans are such sissies.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:08 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103622>
_____
65. DallasNE Says:
_____
How could Bush pull this off you might ask. Well, it is spelled out pretty
well right here.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Time%20for%20change/337
Good old-fashioned corruption can do wonders when in the right hands.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103628>
_____
66. Klem Kiddilehopper Says:
_____
If Bush pardons all these people, could any of them are lawyers, be
dis-barred?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:25 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103634>
_____
67. RantingTommy Says:
_____
Why are right wingers such sissies?
Is it just that they watch too much tv and listen to too much AM radio that
is always telling them they need to be afraid?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:27 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103636>
_____
68. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
OK children. Lets start from the beginning. What law was broken? Comeback!
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_war
Criticism
Legal scholars generally agree that preventive war is not legally distinct
from aggression, "the supreme crime" in international law. Commentators as
diverse as Dwight Eisenhower and Noam Chomsky have argued that accepting one
preventive war would open the floodgates to all preventive wars, reducing
the world to "the law of the jungle". Critics argue this 'war-at-will'
society creates an environment where war can be easily justified.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:33 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103650>
_____
69. RantingTommy Says:
_____
hey ronguell, BOO!
now go clean out your pants and grow a pair
if you're too cowardly to live in the Land of the Free and Home of the
Brave, then take your pansy quivering self to some authoritarian country
that you can feel safe in.
i am sooo sick of these right wing cowards
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:33 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103652>
_____
70. RantingTommy Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
Is this the fourth grade?
If it was, you'd be lost. The kindergarten classroom is down the hall. Try
to keep your diaper dry on the way, coward.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103654>
_____
71. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
also.."or if the United States of America is already under attack or serious
threat." Thanks again.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
Too bad the USA used a terrorist group in Afghanistan without any connection
with Iraq to begin hostile actions agaist the later as an excuse,
contravening international law, international law that bonds the USA,
because international law becomes USA law, as the USA is signatory of such
treaties. Oh, sorry that your "high school" education doesn't grasp this.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:39 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
6#comment-5103656>
_____
72. Evil <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend> Spaniard Says:
_____
Wronguell, the legallity for the conflict of Iraq is at best, foggy, and if
we are realist, its d#mned illegal, and accomplished in the interest of Bush
and his cronies, both economical and political, not the nation's one.
But you're a puppet, and enjoy it, isn't?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103658>
_____
73. tokin <http://thewell-armedlamb.blogspot.com> librul Says:
_____
The Busheviki will ALL walk.
Pardons will be unnecessary.
Even with BHO in the ShiteHouse, these vicious, murdering rascist
fathermuckers will walk.
Why?
1) No newly seated President is going to set the dire precedent of beiung
the First Preznint to prosecute her/her predecessor. That's a gayronTEE that
the sam treatment will be visited upon them.
2) Blanket pardons. The Chimp can pardon ANYONE for ANYTHING and there is
NOTHING anybody can do about it.
3) The sonorities of "We Must Look Foreward," that great hymn of political
expiation, will toll from the very bell-towers of DC on Inauguration Day.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:50 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103662>
_____
74. RantingTommy Says:
_____
no, wronguell, people like you that support the destruction of American
ideals just to make you FEEL safer are the TRUE COWARDS
You make me sick, you pathetic little wimp.
Why are you convinced that AMERICA is too weak to defeat a few rag tag
"terrorists" without resorting to "war" (illegal invasion and occupation)?
Why are you such a sissy?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103670>
_____
75. shoeless Says:
_____
It is on the record that Bush, in a meeting with Tony Blair, suggested a
plan to paint a spy plane in UN colors and provoke Saddam into shooting it
down in order to use the incident as justification for war. This one fact,
by itself, makes George W. Bush guilty of 1st degree murder of more than
4100 US service members.
The <http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/index.php> Prosecution of George W.
Bush for Murder
There is one criminal that George W. Bush cannot pardon. Himself.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
0#comment-5103690>
_____
76. RUCerious Says:
_____
Rongie, why are we in Iraq?
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103712>
_____
77. shoeless Says:
_____
RUCerious Says:
Rongie, why are we in Iraq?
Because the Iraqis hijacked those planes on 9/11?
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
4#comment-5103724>
_____
78. Fred Says:
_____
we're waiting for you to get bored and leave
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
2#comment-5103752>
_____
79. ctcadguy Says:
_____
The Corporate Fascists that gave us unending war based on that false flag
incident, 911, are destined to burn in hell for their sins.
Despite that fact we should investigate, impeach and indict.
Of course that will not happen as the power in this country is with said
Corporate fascists.
Guess we have to go thru what the Germans did.
Why does history repeat itself all the time?
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:43 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103758>
_____
80. ctcadguy Says:
_____
ronguell Says:
---------------------------
IT'S A WAR!!!!! Liberals seem to view the Constitution as a suicide pact.
There is only one war crime commited associated with 911. William Jefferson
Blythe Clinton's neglect in office caused 911 to happen. He knows it. That
is why he sent, signed a letter of authorization, Sandy Burgler to the
archives to steal alter and destroy certain 911 documents. Imagine a
Republican former president getting caught doing that. Media bias?
Liberalism is a cancer.
This man is a Dittohead fascist traitor. He supports torturing of prisoners,
false flag incidents, attacking countries for Corporate profits, warrantless
wire-tapping of Americans, trashing the Constitution and many many other
crimes against humanity.
He is no better than a Nazi of the 1930's.
He and millions of angry white christian Dittoheads started this Corporate
Fascism movement and they will have a hard time at the pearly gates.
Thank the lord, there are no fascists in heaven!
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:52 am
<http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/21/bush-preemptive-pardons/#comment-...
8#comment-5103778>
_____
81. ctcadguy Says:
_____
What makes you think I am a Bill Clinton fan?
What does he have to do with you being a Dittohead (synonomous with the word
fascist).?
You Dittoheads support fascist ideals because your Mentor, Rush, fills you
full of hate and makes you do stupid shit.
911 was an inside job and most Americans are aware of this fact.
According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of Americans
think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and the intelligence
prior to the attacks:
"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are
mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?
Telling the truth 16%
Hiding something 53%
Mostly lying 28%
Not sure 3%"
The 84% figure mirrors other recent polls on the same issue. A Canadian Poll
put the figure at 85%. A CNN poll had the figure at 89%. Over 80% supported
the stance of Charlie Sheen when he went public with his opinions on 9/11 as
an inside job.
You Dittoheads can deny this shit but the rest of us know.
So do the world a favor fascist, Jump off a cliff and go to hell!
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:01 am
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82. shoeless Says:
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This knucklehead is worried about a couple of scraps of paper, which were
found to be of little consequence, and of which there were copies.
Meanwhile, he isn't the least bit concerned about George W. Bush wiretapping
his political opponents for 7+ years in violation of the 4th Amendment.
ronguell Says:
It doesnt matter if the piolets of 911 were Iraq born. It's radical muslim
extremists who are the terrorists.
Translation: Brown people must die because I'm afraid.
Get help you sick bastard.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
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83. Fred Says:
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ronguell Says:
the wacky lefts...
Clinton did it..
Sandy Burger..proof if your going to make accusations please
hillary's crimes..she's not in the game so why is this relevant?
muslim extremists ..
war was not for oil...
If I edit out the childish smack talk your comment is left with "I support
the destruction of american ideals to feel safe".
Just a reminder, the topic of the thread is "bush pre-emtive pardons..key
word is pre-emtive, you know, like before they are charged.
Any civil discussion about that will be better recieved among the thinking
people here who have not been rude to you, yet. If you continue to act like
there is nothing wrong with the world today because of actions by the bush
administration however, that could change.
we've heard all of this bullsh!t before.
guess no one here can take you seriously.I know I don't. Have a nice day.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
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84. shoeless Says:
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Bush has to pardon all the criminals in his administration. We can't afford
to build another federal prison.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
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85. Doc Rock <http://eldritchtree.blogspot.com> Says:
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Then they could be compelled to testify without 5th amendment rights and be
in jeopardy of perjury if they lie.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:12 am
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86. shoeless Says:
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ronguell Says:
Told you why we are in Iraq shoeless. What up?
Yes, and I counted six lies in your list of excuses, and one lie twice.
1. Well it's not for oil
2. The best place to strike a blow against terrorism
3a. a country that supported terrorism,
4. made wmds,
5. was reforming it's wmd manufacturing capacity,
6. threw inspectors out
3b. while supporting the terrorism flourishing in the region.
Since you are a liar yourself, you cannot recognize that Bush and his cronys
are a bunch of lying criminals.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:12 am
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87. ctcadguy Says:
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Hey Shoeless - did you know the wire-tapping started before 911.
911 was definitely an inside job - no question about that.
I hate Dittoheads!
Most respectable Conservatives will vote for Bob Barr or will not vote.
They know fascists when they see them.
I am sick and tired of the dumbasses who think their government is pure as
driven snow.
Yet we are surrounded by these Dittohead fascist types who think Sadam did
911.
It amazes me that people never question anything about this government?
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
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88. A Patriot Acting Says:
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Congress should draft a bill that strips the power of Presidents from
issuing pardons to people within their Administration or with anyone that
has had a private business relationship with anyone in the President's
Administration. The pardoning of anyone involved with the Bush Crime
Syndicate would be tantamount to obstruction of justice as was clearly seen
in the pardoning of Libby. This buffoon who has run amok through our legal
system for almost eight years has used his flunkies in the OLC and Justice
Dept.s to bend and twist the definitions of many laws to a point where they
no longer resemble the original laws. The spirit of these laws has been
twisted into whatever the President's lawyers decided in order to make
illegal actions legal. This legal mess will take years to unravel but it
needs to be done with great attention to motive and detail.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:17 am
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89. Fred Says:
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ronguell Says:
Pre-emptive doesnt mean good or bad.
Excuse me, it has never been done before, by anyone and indicates that they
know that they have broken the law and expect someone to point that
out..small point that I can understand how you, with such a narrow vision
could grasp.
Dems love to crush people with their investigative powers more than they
want to create constructive legislation
em hmm, like ollie north, poindexter, nixon..those types of sandwiches?
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:23 am
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90. Fred Says:
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ronguell Says:
Dems love to crush people with their investigative powers more than they
want to create constructive legislation
Guess you forgot the millions spent by the gop invesigating and destroying
people with the whitewater investigations that never found any
wrongdoing..got mirror.
What about the impeachement of Bill Clinton...that was justified..not...just
the gop trying to crush people with their investigative powers.
you have squandered your credibility here and I am done with you. If you
post off topic again I will flag your lying ass.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 am
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2#comment-5103872>
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91. shoeless Says:
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ronguell Says:
Bush's pre-emptive legal move will also protect, possibly I'm out of the box
now, Our victory in Iraq. Why would I speculate on that?
Because you aren't very smart, and you don't mind making a fool of yourself.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:34 am
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92. shoeless Says:
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ctcadguy Says:
---------------------------
Hey Shoeless - did you know the wire-tapping started before 911.
Yes, I know. It is on the Congressional record from testimony by telecom
CEOs. It would be very easy to prosecute this case, as no one in the Bush
administration even denies this crime any longer.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 am
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93. ctcadguy Says:
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You still here fascist?
Isn't time for the Rush Limbaugh show?
I do not have to prove shit to you moron.
Go worship a flag lapel pin or go wrap yourself in a flag or something
traitor.
Go to a GOPwarpig website buffoon, this website is for Progessives, not
Dittohead fascist types.
Thank God Dittoheads are not allowed in heaven!
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 am
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94. Fred Says:
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everyone agree we should just flag the spammer ronguell?
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
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95. A Patriot Acting Says:
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The reality challenged flying monkey, Wrong-L should honestly cut back on
the cocain. It's been ranting nonsense here all morning, foaming from it's
mouth and has thrown so much of it's feces around this thread that Faiz is
going to have to call in a few extra interns with mops and disinfectant to
clean it up. The troll must suffer A.D.D. as it can't manage to stick to the
subject of the thread. It spends so much time with it's tongue up bush's ass
that they appear to have let it move in to his bubble permanently as it
seems to have about as much of a grasp on reality as the Chimp does. It
laughably thinks that this president should be able to offer pre-emptive
pardons to members of it's own Administration. What's the matter wrongy, are
you on his pardon list?? Are you getting scared of the prospect of prison
for the years you've spent adoring the chimp at the expense of our nation? I
thought you conservatives supported the rule of law at one time. I guess
that's all over, right? If you can't do the time don't do the crime, right
wrongy?
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
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96. shoeless Says:
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wronguell, why do you hate the 4th Amendment to the Constitution of the
United States of America?
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
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4#comment-5103964>
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97. shoeless Says:
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ronguell Says:
What law has been broken
U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment- Search and Seizure
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
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98. A Patriot Acting Says:
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Maybe the troll should consider that one of the reasons that Bush WILL NOT
end the occupation in Iraq despite all reason is that his lawyers have made
him feel that as long as we're at war, he can disregard the law to his own
selfish means. It stands to reason that if you are under the delusion that
in a time of war anything the president does is justified legally, why would
you end the war? Anyone got a better justification for Herr Bush's endless
occupation? Oil, lucrative contracts for his friends, being a "war
president" gives him a boner? Yes, these are all valid reasons for Bush but
IMHO covering his own ass is objective # 1! Everything else is just gravy.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:03 am
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99. A Patriot Acting Says:
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It would be a waste of time to list the crimes that have been broken by the
Bush Crime Family. I won't justify the trolls request with a response other
than to say that you could ask virtually any Senator, Congressman, pundit,
newsman or average American if Bush has commited any crimes and even the
staunchest Republicans will give you a sneer or a chuckle and say yes. It's
no secret troll, no matter what bubble you surround yourself in, this
Administration is corrupt to the core. It is a blight on our nation that has
pulled out all stops to thwart any oversight. I'll use your master's own
assertion that if you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide.
Then why exactly are they trying to hide everything they have done??????? A
pre-emptive pardon implies guilt. Retroactive immunity implies guilt. This
Presidents actions and words imply guilt. I'm certain that if a true
investigation were to be undertaken it wouldn't take long to find the proof
of many various crimes, considering that despite this Administrations award
winning secrecy, the evidence is right there for the world to see. All it
will take is an Attorney General that cares more about the law than they
care about protecting a corrupt president.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
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100. Fred Says:
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Stuart Taylor, Jr., a constitutional law fellow at Brookings, agrees,
saying:
Absent pardons, pressure to go after GOP "war criminals" would make it very
hard to unite Americans of all stripes behind solutions to the many economic
and social challenges facing the country.
I think the average American is much more aware of the price of gasoline,
heating/cooling, utilities in general, health care crisis, etc. than they
are about these pardons and hopefully that will be enough to wake them up
and see the rest of what has been going on...
republicans can rest assured that thier little run is just about over..they
better start planning for much further down the road. It is over for them
and they have no one to blame but themselves.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
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101. shoeless Says:
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ronguell Says:
---------------------------
I support the 4th.
No you don't. You support Bush. It is impossible to support both the
Constitution and the foremost violator of the Constitution.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 am
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102. ctcadguy Says:
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Dems like Hardon and Rockefeller are complicit in the FISA crimes.
Also the 911 false flag incident was also a crime in which powerful Dems are
also complicit.
Rethugs may up to their necks in war crimes, but make no mistake, some
powerful Dems are also up to their necks in war crimes as well.
Hence the no impeachment ruling by Pelosi.
These crimes are well known to most in the know. They will all burn in hell
for their mortal
