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echarp
Jun 2, 2006, 5:06:43 AM6/2/06
to top-politics
--- Log opened jeu jun 01 00:00:07 2006
18:00 -!- Topic for #parlement: http://leparlement.org
18:00 -!- Topic set by echarp [n=33M0...@m96.net81-66-133.noos.fr] [Thu Apr 27 11:17:12 2006]
18:13 -!- illegale (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung4228.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
18:13 < illegale:#parlement> lol, I was at parlament
18:17 <@echarp> hello hello illegale !!!
18:17 <@echarp> illegale: nice to meet you :)
18:19 < illegale> Hoho!
18:19 < illegale> We made it :-=)
18:20 <@echarp> finally!
18:21 < illegale> So E, how are you today? Drinking wine?
18:21 <@echarp> nope, still at work right now
18:21 <@echarp> and contemplating going home, home sweet home :)
18:22 <@echarp> illegale: so, what do you think of gaim?
18:22 < illegale> I thought you French wake up with glass of wine .-)
18:22 < illegale> I do not use gaim. could not install it :-(
18:22 <@echarp> well, I'm sure some do, same with cognac :)
18:22 <@echarp> illegale: mirc then?
18:23 <@echarp> illegale: what is that channel about?
18:23 < illegale> Yes, good old
18:23 <@echarp> #joiito
18:23 < illegale> It is chanel frm Joi Ito, one of the coautors of extreme democracy
18:23 < illegale> I was talking about
18:23 <@echarp> oooh
18:23 <@echarp> I need to go there then
18:24 < illegale> Of course.v
18:24 < illegale> Joi is some smart ass, pretty popular.
18:24 < illegale> With pretty advanced thoughts IMO
18:25 < illegale> Yet he is addicted to WoW
18:25 <@echarp> wow :)
18:25 < illegale> you to?
18:25 < illegale> Play it?
18:25 <@echarp> klaus, the guy on our-constitution, is also a WoW addict
18:25 <@echarp> he's in hong-kong, maybe you should meet him in-game
18:25 <@echarp> nope, I prefer to spend my time coding
18:26 < illegale> That is great! I am not WoWist, my computer is weak
18:26 <@echarp> or reading, or watching documentaries or series
18:26 < illegale> that is even better :-))))
18:26 < illegale> Though, can I ask you one thing that buzz through my head in last time?
18:26 <@echarp> then, what is your own personal addiction if not Wow?
18:27 <@echarp> of course, do ask
18:27 < illegale> This stuff.
18:27 < illegale> Went to deep into it, can not get out
18:27 < illegale> Any more
18:27 <@echarp> what stuff?
18:27 < illegale> Internet democracy and so..
18:27 -!- M4rKu5 (Markus Schatten) [n=msch...@83.131.25.170] has joined #parlement
18:27 <@echarp> how many hours per week?
18:27 <@echarp> hello hello M4rKu5 !!!
18:27 < M4rKu5> Hello
18:28 < illegale> All free time actually. Yet I am pretty lazyso I lurk regularly
18:28 < M4rKu5> ;-) wazaap
18:28 < illegale> Hey Markus!
18:28 < M4rKu5> hey
18:28 < illegale> Ocemo na hrvatski?
18:28 < M4rKu5> wasn't it 21:00? ;-)
18:28 < M4rKu5> Ocemo bolan!
18:28 <@echarp> any time is good time :)
18:28 < illegale> Sure
18:29 -!- echarp changed the topic of #parlement to: http://leparlement.org/top-politics
18:29 <@echarp> plus you are in central europe, this means the sun is already low I guess ;)
18:29 < illegale> BTw Markus, Joi Ito has his personal irc channel orund here. We could use it to promote our stuff getting him interested into it.
18:30 < M4rKu5> sure
18:30 <@echarp> I'm going to hang in his channel yes
18:30 < M4rKu5> btw, I posted to TOP that we should c/p this converasation to the group for sake of TOP principles
18:31 < M4rKu5> so other members can see what happened
18:31 <@echarp> +1 fine by me, :)
18:31 < M4rKu5> ok
18:31 < illegale> +1
18:31 <@echarp> then we should not make fun of mark, that ain't fun ;)
18:31 < M4rKu5> ;-))))))
18:31 < M4rKu5> LOL
18:31 < illegale> Mark is Good
18:32 * echarp coughs
18:32 < illegale> What?
18:32 < M4rKu5> he is, but sometimes he tries to go with his head thruog the wall
18:32 <@echarp> I'd like to talk to him about his vocabulary and use of silly logic
18:32 < illegale> He is in Jesus stage IMO
18:33 <@echarp> he thinks he has found a loop in human language, and he overuses it
18:33 < illegale> LOl
18:33 <@echarp> enlightened, all that :)
18:33 < M4rKu5> :-D
18:33 < M4rKu5> well once he'll find out how stuff works
18:34 <@echarp> I'm sure we all have our flaws, and every body sees them but our self :)
18:34 < illegale> Anyway, he might succeed in this way. I doubt it, but he might.
18:34 <@echarp> energy, which is of much interest
18:34 <@echarp> I do envy that
18:34 < M4rKu5> he might ;-)
18:35 < M4rKu5> but he wastes a lot of energy on nothing
18:35 < illegale> Been there, done that :-))
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)))))
18:35 < illegale> But that it wears off after a while
18:35 < M4rKu5> so you're smarter now
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:36 <@echarp> I do sometimes wonder about the best ways to get exposure
18:36 <@echarp> this is one, there must be others
18:36 < M4rKu5> it's fuuny to talk to someone you normally talk to in croatian in english
18:36 <@echarp> you've met before I guess?
18:37 < M4rKu5> yes, we know ourselves for quite a time now
18:37 < illegale> From youth party :-)
18:37 < M4rKu5> hehehe
18:37 < illegale> We did no aproach it.
18:37 < M4rKu5> yes
18:37 < illegale> Decided to go a little bit sideways
18:38 <@echarp> lol
18:38 <@echarp> you missed on the babes, the rock and the drugs :)
18:38 < M4rKu5> we didnt
18:38 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:38 < illegale> No, but we are old people now.
18:39 < illegale> Mid 20
18:39 < illegale> :-)
18:39 <@echarp> rooo, I'm 33, you owe me mucho respecto then :)
18:39 <@echarp> or just throw tomatoes on the old man :)
18:39 * M4rKu5 throws tomato
18:40 <@echarp> lol
18:40 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:40 < illegale> I will respect you
18:40 < M4rKu5> me too
18:40 < illegale> So we can handle you more easily
18:40 < M4rKu5> hehe
18:40 * illegale trows tomato
18:40 < illegale> good cop bad coop
18:40 <@echarp> ahlalal, the youth of today!!!
18:40 < illegale> stuff
18:40 < M4rKu5> hehehe
18:40 <@echarp> where are you socrates, to defend me against those folly! :)
18:41 < M4rKu5> :-D
18:41 < illegale> :)
18:41 <@echarp> and what are you day jobs if you have any?
18:41 < M4rKu5> shouldn't we talk about TOP? ;-)
18:41 < illegale> In two minutes
18:41 < illegale> Student long time
18:41 < M4rKu5> post graduate student
18:41 < illegale> MArkus is postgraduate stuff student
18:42 < M4rKu5> now waiting for an asistant job
18:42 < M4rKu5> you?
18:42 <@echarp> I'm going home, will be back in some 45minutes
18:42 < illegale> Tc
18:42 <@echarp> me software engineer
18:42 < M4rKu5> nice
18:42 < illegale> Usefull stuff
18:42 < illegale> Did you say it to Mark?
18:42 <@echarp> consulting and stuff, good wage, sometimes interesting
18:43 <@echarp> I'd rather not over use this kind of silly authority
18:43 < M4rKu5> hehehhe
18:43 <@echarp> ok, you stay around guys, I'll be back in a short while
18:44 < M4rKu5> ok
18:44 <@echarp> and will read whatever you say in my absence, so watch out ;)
18:44 < illegale> Cool
18:44 < illegale> Markus, lets go private
18:44 < M4rKu5> hehe nes ti nista skuzit ;-)
18:44 <@echarp> arg!!!!
18:44 < illegale> hehe
18:44 < illegale> call some french guys
18:44 <@echarp> there are rules to this war! no torture! )
18:44 <@echarp> :)
18:44 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:45 * M4rKu5 throws tomato
18:46 <@echarp> ok, à tout de suite
18:46 * echarp runs away from those weird speaking tomatoes
18:47 < M4rKu5> hehehehhe
18:47 < illegale> otiso
18:47 < illegale> Markus, ocemo mi malo po nasem, ha?
18:47 < illegale> Volio bih da se isfura ona spika sa cvorovima.
18:47 < M4rKu5> eto tako da i kad se kopira na grupu nece nas kuzit nist
18:48 < M4rKu5> sto to?
18:48 < illegale> Linkanje i afirmacija javnih kanala kao prvi korak prema ostvarenju nvoe paradigme
18:48 < M4rKu5> mislis ono da je TOP cvor koji spaja inicijative
18:48 < M4rKu5> ok, i ja isto
18:48 < illegale> Moj spoj sa svijetom je TOP spike
18:48 < M4rKu5> kuzim
18:49 < illegale> Samo, ne mora bit top jedini cvor, poanta je uspsotaviti mrezu i optmizirati je
18:49 < M4rKu5> dakako
18:49 < illegale> Isfurati pravila koja osiguravaju optimizaciju i slijediti ih
18:50 < M4rKu5> da, ako nam to pro?e mo?emo dalje fatat nove inicijative
18:50 < M4rKu5> eh da kako ti se ?ini wiki?
18:51 < illegale> dobar je, btw dodji na stranicu od joi ita. mislm na kanal
18:51 < M4rKu5> koji je?
18:52 < M4rKu5> ??? si tu
18:54 < illegale> Evo me, pogledaj gdi sam
18:55 < M4rKu5> hehe, nisam ti ja na mircu... samo reci ime kanala
18:56 < illegale> joiito
18:56 < M4rKu5> eto me ;-)
19:44 <@echarp> I'm back
19:44 <@echarp> incomprehensible! what a language you are speaking! :)
19:46 < illegale> It is coded. We lear that coding in our kindergardens
19:46 < illegale> So, do you want me to decode it for you?
19:47 <@echarp> nah, it's no problem, I can manage not understanding things :)
19:48 < illegale> Cool ability
19:48 <@echarp> so, how is #joiito ?
19:48 <@echarp> many many people on it
19:48 < illegale> We had a little talk
19:48 < illegale> It is still going on, actually
19:49 < illegale> Joi is not there, but we are bugging them with new aproaches stuff.
19:49 <@echarp> top principles yes
19:50 < illegale> more or less :-)
19:50 < illegale> So. E.
19:50 < illegale> I wanted to ask you something
19:54 <@echarp> yeap
19:54 <@echarp> don't hesitate, I'm open to questions
19:55 < illegale> http://groups.google.com/group/top-politics/browse_frm/thread/4de15bcfeae7da52/#
19:55 < illegale> Wht do you think about it? Acknowledgment of the public nod stuff?
19:57 <@echarp> public nod seems rather strange to me
19:57 <@echarp> I don't yet grok it fully
19:58 <@echarp> but I definitely agree about one thing: internet has the potential to change the way we do politics
19:58 < illegale> I am not so sure that any one of us on the top politics will be trigger for political movement that is in front of us
19:58 < illegale> BTW, do you expect political movement to happend in sme time=
20:00 * M4rKu5 is back! Keep out he's trowing tomatos!!!!
20:00 <@echarp> as in a revolution?
20:00 < M4rKu5> ;-)
20:00 <@echarp> lol
20:00 < illegale> IMO, this revolutionary new aproach to politics creates great potential which in the moment someone creates the channal, creates political movement
20:00 < illegale> I prefer not to use word revoluitonas it in politics have negative conotation
20:00 < illegale> Movement is better .-)
20:00 <@echarp> I think any revolution will not happen on a national scale, but from the bottom to the top
20:00 < M4rKu5> +1
20:00 < M4rKu5> I agree!
20:01 <@echarp> change will not happen in large organisations
20:01 < illegale> I think it wil happen on the large scale actually
20:01 < M4rKu5> Things just happen... slowly but they do...
20:01 < M4rKu5> Hmmm... I'm not so sure Gale
20:01 < illegale> Somthing lika a shrooms, where wen eed mycelia to win the forst first
20:01 <@echarp> uh?
20:01 < M4rKu5> ?
20:02 <@echarp> shrooms?
20:02 < illegale> Mushrooms
20:02 * M4rKu5 is confused
20:02 < illegale> Huh.
20:02 <@echarp> please, rewrite your last sentence, illegale
20:03 < illegale> I do agree with oyu it is bottom up stuff, yet it is bottom up stuff on the large scale.
20:03 < illegale> Something like mushrooms growing at the forest
20:03 < illegale> All together, soiled and watered properly by the large scale moments
20:03 <@echarp> but does it need to happen on the national scale to be important?
20:04 <@echarp> or international for that matter
20:04 < illegale> T ob e globaly imporztant, yes
20:04 <@echarp> is wikipedia important, or with a large potential at least
20:04 < illegale> In politics it is the fight between power centers. And we do have power centers not on the level ov states, but world.
20:05 < illegale> If you want to compete them, the easisest way is to use the same potential as these organsations use
20:05 < illegale> If you do not gain enough power, you have to obey to them, meaning no revolution stuff.
20:05 <@echarp> but why compete with them?
20:05 < illegale> Wikipedia is fine.
20:06 < M4rKu5> They will compete us sooner or later
20:06 < illegale> For certain aspects of our poitical lives this is needed.
20:06 <@echarp> ok, it's interesting, but give me 10minutes for my dinner ;)
20:06 < M4rKu5> ;-) good appetite
20:06 < illegale> Islamists / neo cons, this is a global fight that can be avoided only if you aproach to it from the same level
20:06 <@echarp> I'm not convinced at all that any change of interest must occur on the global stage
20:06 < illegale> bon apetite :D
20:06 <@echarp> merci
20:07 * echarp 'll be back in 5/10 minutes
20:07 < M4rKu5> hmmm.... Gale ne kuzim sto mu to?no ?eli? objasnit
20:08 < illegale> Ma brijem na svoje misljenje. A to je primjer Hrvatske. Ako mi postanemo neovisni sa prvom JOT vlasti, mozemo se komotno odreci svjeta i prihvatiti izolaciju, ako ne napravimo ovu pricu i u drugim diejlovma svjeta
20:08 < illegale> To je primjer
20:09 < M4rKu5> aha, pa reci tako brate, jednostavnim rje?nikom ;-)
20:09 < illegale> cccc
20:09 < illegale> :-)
20:10 < M4rKu5> hehe..
20:10 < M4rKu5> hej upravo vidjeh da si postavio viziju na wiki... Da ja to malo uredim?
20:11 < illegale> Moooze
20:12 < M4rKu5> rjeseno ;-)
20:13 < illegale> Brz si
20:13 < illegale> brb jest
20:13 < M4rKu5> ko vjetar ;-)
20:13 < illegale> :-)
20:14 < M4rKu5> da to mozda staviom tamo pod TiAktiv tako da ne namecemo viziju ili da ostavim tu gdje je pa da vidimo ?to ?e re?i?
20:15 < illegale> Moze pod Tiaktvi
20:15 < M4rKu5> ok
20:17 < illegale> WUWE?
20:17 < illegale> (what is up wiht E?)
20:21 < M4rKu5> rje?eno....
20:21 < M4rKu5> WUWE?
20:22 < illegale> kratice spike
20:23 < M4rKu5> ovu ne ku?im....
20:25 <@echarp> re
20:25 < M4rKu5> hey, E.
20:25 <@echarp> still got my yahourt to eat :)
20:25 < M4rKu5> hehe, just relax I have no more tomatos
20:26 <@echarp> so, does the world need and will change on a global basis?
20:26 <@echarp> :)
20:26 < M4rKu5> the world does change allready, organizations are the best proof for this
20:27 -!- beeli (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung2857.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
20:27 < M4rKu5> e-Busines, B2B, virtual organization... all because of the internet
20:27 < beeli> hey I am back
20:27 < beeli> link got broken
20:27 < M4rKu5> now I see double
20:27 < beeli> illegale does not exist anym or
20:27 < beeli> more
20:28 < beeli> At leastr it is not me
20:29 <@echarp> hello again beeli
20:29 <@echarp> M4rKu5: but that's local change, bottom-up stuff
20:29 <@echarp> clue train and all that
20:30 < M4rKu5> of course, I do not believe that top down will happen until a good infrastructure exists
20:30 < beeli> Hmh, need to define what is top down maybe?
20:30 <@echarp> top down would be things like united nations, nato, countries
20:30 < beeli> I suppose top down is when you are government, Right?
20:30 < beeli> OK
20:30 < M4rKu5> right
20:31 < beeli> Suppose that would be the moment we are looking for, yet till that moment bottom up we go :-)
20:31 <@echarp> bottom up would be associations, enterprises, individuals, but linked together
20:31 < beeli> Thoughm bottom up can eliminate need for top down, right?
20:31 < beeli> That would be actualyl democracy IMO
20:32 <@echarp> it somehow does yes, which is a lot of its interest
20:32 <@echarp> but large organisations tend to do everything they can to survive
20:33 < beeli> Yet, their true base and power is based on bottom too
20:33 < beeli> And we eliminate it step by step
20:33 < beeli> taking over stuff
20:34 < beeli> Markus, did you explain mushroom view to E?
20:34 <@echarp> we somehow try to eliminate it
20:35 <@echarp> you have to read la boétie
20:35 < beeli> English?
20:35 <@echarp> treaty on voluntary servitude, it talks about those things
20:36 <@echarp> it's been translated, 500 years old paper written by an 18 yo guy
20:37 < beeli> Long text?
20:37 <@echarp> not that long no
20:37 <@echarp> look it up on wikisource
20:38 < beeli> Markus gone?
20:38 < M4rKu5> I'm here, just a sec
20:39 <@echarp> no trouble
20:39 < beeli> I have to go now
20:39 <@echarp> beeli: so, why this pseudo?
20:39 < beeli> The link was bvroken and when i got back I use the new nick as long as it rembmers the firt one
20:39 < beeli> Strange
20:40 <@echarp> that happens
20:40 <@echarp> you have a ghost :)
20:40 < M4rKu5> I'm sorry but I have to go now... see y
20:41 <@echarp> cu
20:41 < beeli> Markus, see you!
20:41 <@echarp> M4rKu5: I hope to see you here again
20:41 < M4rKu5> and yes please someone c/p this to the group
20:41 <@echarp> we shall yes
20:41 < beeli> E, see you too. You are here, anyway :-)
20:41 < M4rKu5> ok
20:41 -!- beeli [i=ille...@cmung2857.cmu.carnet.hr] has left #parlement []
20:41 < M4rKu5> bye
20:41 -!- M4rKu5 [n=msch...@83.131.25.170] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:42 -!- illegale [i=ille...@cmung4228.cmu.carnet.hr] has quit [Success]
21:19 -!- illegale (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung355.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
21:19 < illegale> there?
21:20 <@echarp> re
21:20 <@echarp> always there, or almost :)
21:21 < illegale> cool
21:21 < illegale> spe nding time with internet
21:21 <@echarp> and you, are you on your computer usually?
21:22 < illegale> whats up with 0/-1/+1
21:22 < illegale> yes
21:22 < illegale> if I go out with friends or with girlfriend or have to do or seep than not.
21:22 < illegale> rest of time yes
21:23 <@echarp> :)
21:23 < illegale> you
21:23 <@echarp> you can already vote by mail
21:23 < illegale> what do I send
21:23 <@echarp> as markus does from time to time, it is right away reflected on http://leparlement.org
21:24 <@echarp> in your mail, just write 0, 1 or -1 at the beginning of a line, then the parent post is increased with that score
21:24 < illegale> send to?
21:24 <@echarp> it works on the web since today, but only on my development machine
21:24 <@echarp> just send it as you do usually, no difference
21:25 < illegale> OK, Id like to see who voted in what manner.
21:25 < illegale> Is it possible?
21:25 <@echarp> you can, just read your mails ;)
21:25 <@echarp> but not many have voted, it's very disparate
21:25 <@echarp> no issue yet, where we ask everybody to vote on
21:25 < illegale> look, google has voting too
21:26 < illegale> yet I do not find it intereting as long as I do not know was some bot voting, or some I respect.
21:26 < illegale> That vote in that manner means not much to me
21:26 <@echarp> I agree
21:26 <@echarp> I will have to implement an electoral list, one against which votes are counted
21:27 < illegale> Cool
21:27 < illegale> What do you think about Magnus, Eric Markus you and me doing a front.
21:27 < illegale> I mean is it promissing idea to you?
21:27 < illegale> You are our important link you know :-)
21:28 <@echarp> it's very interesting yes
21:28 < illegale> Mark, Charles, Pether?
21:28 < illegale> BTW, whats up with the german guy?
21:28 <@echarp> charles is fine, yet we are definitely not on the same foundations
21:29 <@echarp> klaus is the one who create "our-constitution"
21:29 < illegale> he wont come back?
21:29 < illegale> PS, what a name :D
21:31 < illegale> Klaus, where are you from? :-D
21:31 <@echarp> I think he just watch what we are doing
21:31 <@echarp> you like the name?
21:31 < illegale> It is typical german name
21:31 < illegale> From jokes, etc
21:31 <@echarp> :)
21:31 < illegale> You ar in contact with him?
21:32 <@echarp> yeap
21:32 <@echarp> he's got some thoughts about constructing something larger
21:32 < illegale> Had some work together?
21:32 < illegale> than what?
21:32 <@echarp> ambitious, and clever, a good combination
21:32 <@echarp> larger than simple internet groups
21:33 < illegale> What would be his stating point?
21:34 <@echarp> european institutions possibly
21:35 <@echarp> or a company
21:36 < illegale> company? offering what?
21:37 <@echarp> in discussions ;)
21:37 < illegale> No vague ides?=
21:37 <@echarp> right now he is in hong kong, studying
21:38 <@echarp> ideas yes
21:38 <@echarp> around democracy<anne>
21:38 <@echarp> oups
21:39 < illegale> :-9
21:39 < illegale> He might see Eric when comming back, on his way home
21:40 <@echarp> he's got projects along those lines?
21:41 < illegale> Not sure
21:41 < illegale> Yet, I find Eric be cool guy.
21:41 < illegale> Very organised
21:41 < illegale> impretant thing
21:43 < illegale> Surfing xxx?
21:43 < illegale> :-D
21:44 <@echarp> lol
21:44 <@echarp> nah, watching some bits of monthy python
21:44 <@echarp> lovely holy grail!
21:44 < illegale> nice
21:46 < illegale> I had some surgery work on bottom
21:46 < illegale> So, it is hard to sit lot of time
21:46 < illegale> I can lie and stand but not sit
21:46 < illegale> Stupid thing
21:47 <@echarp> oh :(
21:47 <@echarp> you probably can use a nice laptop then
21:47 < illegale> http://www.pilonidal.org/stories_archives/stories18.htm
21:47 < illegale> That shit happened to me.
21:48 < illegale> :-D
21:48 < illegale> Have no lap top, baaad
21:49 < illegale> This is grossy one
21:49 < illegale> http://pilonidal.fotopic.net/c156093.html
21:50 < illegale> have to go
21:50 < illegale> cu
21:51 -!- illegale [i=ille...@cmung355.cmu.carnet.hr] has quit []
--- Log closed ven jun 02 00:00:07 2006
18:00 -!- Topic for #parlement: http://leparlement.org
18:00 -!- Topic set by echarp [n=33M0...@m96.net81-66-133.noos.fr] [Thu Apr 27 11:17:12 2006]
18:13 -!- illegale (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung4228.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
18:13 < illegale:#parlement> lol, I was at parlament
18:17 <@echarp> hello hello illegale !!!
18:17 <@echarp> illegale: nice to meet you :)
18:19 < illegale> Hoho!
18:19 < illegale> We made it :-=)
18:20 <@echarp> finally!
18:21 < illegale> So E, how are you today? Drinking wine?
18:21 <@echarp> nope, still at work right now
18:21 <@echarp> and contemplating going home, home sweet home :)
18:22 <@echarp> illegale: so, what do you think of gaim?
18:22 < illegale> I thought you French wake up with glass of wine .-)
18:22 < illegale> I do not use gaim. could not install it :-(
18:22 <@echarp> well, I'm sure some do, same with cognac :)
18:22 <@echarp> illegale: mirc then?
18:23 <@echarp> illegale: what is that channel about?
18:23 < illegale> Yes, good old
18:23 <@echarp> #joiito
18:23 < illegale> It is chanel frm Joi Ito, one of the coautors of extreme democracy
18:23 < illegale> I was talking about
18:23 <@echarp> oooh
18:23 <@echarp> I need to go there then
18:24 < illegale> Of course.v
18:24 < illegale> Joi is some smart ass, pretty popular.
18:24 < illegale> With pretty advanced thoughts IMO
18:25 < illegale> Yet he is addicted to WoW
18:25 <@echarp> wow :)
18:25 < illegale> you to?
18:25 < illegale> Play it?
18:25 <@echarp> klaus, the guy on our-constitution, is also a WoW addict
18:25 <@echarp> he's in hong-kong, maybe you should meet him in-game
18:25 <@echarp> nope, I prefer to spend my time coding
18:26 < illegale> That is great! I am not WoWist, my computer is weak
18:26 <@echarp> or reading, or watching documentaries or series
18:26 < illegale> that is even better :-))))
18:26 < illegale> Though, can I ask you one thing that buzz through my head in last time?
18:26 <@echarp> then, what is your own personal addiction if not Wow?
18:27 <@echarp> of course, do ask
18:27 < illegale> This stuff.
18:27 < illegale> Went to deep into it, can not get out
18:27 < illegale> Any more
18:27 <@echarp> what stuff?
18:27 < illegale> Internet democracy and so..
18:27 -!- M4rKu5 (Markus Schatten) [n=msch...@83.131.25.170] has joined #parlement
18:27 <@echarp> how many hours per week?
18:27 <@echarp> hello hello M4rKu5 !!!
18:27 < M4rKu5> Hello
18:28 < illegale> All free time actually. Yet I am pretty lazyso I lurk regularly
18:28 < M4rKu5> ;-) wazaap
18:28 < illegale> Hey Markus!
18:28 < M4rKu5> hey
18:28 < illegale> Ocemo na hrvatski?
18:28 < M4rKu5> wasn't it 21:00? ;-)
18:28 < M4rKu5> Ocemo bolan!
18:28 <@echarp> any time is good time :)
18:28 < illegale> Sure
18:29 -!- echarp changed the topic of #parlement to: http://leparlement.org/top-politics
18:29 <@echarp> plus you are in central europe, this means the sun is already low I guess ;)
18:29 < illegale> BTw Markus, Joi Ito has his personal irc channel orund here. We could use it to promote our stuff getting him interested into it.
18:30 < M4rKu5> sure
18:30 <@echarp> I'm going to hang in his channel yes
18:30 < M4rKu5> btw, I posted to TOP that we should c/p this converasation to the group for sake of TOP principles
18:31 < M4rKu5> so other members can see what happened
18:31 <@echarp> +1 fine by me, :)
18:31 < M4rKu5> ok
18:31 < illegale> +1
18:31 <@echarp> then we should not make fun of mark, that ain't fun ;)
18:31 < M4rKu5> ;-))))))
18:31 < M4rKu5> LOL
18:31 < illegale> Mark is Good
18:32 * echarp coughs
18:32 < illegale> What?
18:32 < M4rKu5> he is, but sometimes he tries to go with his head thruog the wall
18:32 <@echarp> I'd like to talk to him about his vocabulary and use of silly logic
18:32 < illegale> He is in Jesus stage IMO
18:33 <@echarp> he thinks he has found a loop in human language, and he overuses it
18:33 < illegale> LOl
18:33 <@echarp> enlightened, all that :)
18:33 < M4rKu5> :-D
18:33 < M4rKu5> well once he'll find out how stuff works
18:34 <@echarp> I'm sure we all have our flaws, and every body sees them but our self :)
18:34 < illegale> Anyway, he might succeed in this way. I doubt it, but he might.
18:34 <@echarp> energy, which is of much interest
18:34 <@echarp> I do envy that
18:34 < M4rKu5> he might ;-)
18:35 < M4rKu5> but he wastes a lot of energy on nothing
18:35 < illegale> Been there, done that :-))
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)))))
18:35 < illegale> But that it wears off after a while
18:35 < M4rKu5> so you're smarter now
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:36 <@echarp> I do sometimes wonder about the best ways to get exposure
18:36 <@echarp> this is one, there must be others
18:36 < M4rKu5> it's fuuny to talk to someone you normally talk to in croatian in english
18:36 <@echarp> you've met before I guess?
18:37 < M4rKu5> yes, we know ourselves for quite a time now
18:37 < illegale> From youth party :-)
18:37 < M4rKu5> hehehe
18:37 < illegale> We did no aproach it.
18:37 < M4rKu5> yes
18:37 < illegale> Decided to go a little bit sideways
18:38 <@echarp> lol
18:38 <@echarp> you missed on the babes, the rock and the drugs :)
18:38 < M4rKu5> we didnt
18:38 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:38 < illegale> No, but we are old people now.
18:39 < illegale> Mid 20
18:39 < illegale> :-)
18:39 <@echarp> rooo, I'm 33, you owe me mucho respecto then :)
18:39 <@echarp> or just throw tomatoes on the old man :)
18:39 * M4rKu5 throws tomato
18:40 <@echarp> lol
18:40 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:40 < illegale> I will respect you
18:40 < M4rKu5> me too
18:40 < illegale> So we can handle you more easily
18:40 < M4rKu5> hehe
18:40 * illegale trows tomato
18:40 < illegale> good cop bad coop
18:40 <@echarp> ahlalal, the youth of today!!!
18:40 < illegale> stuff
18:40 < M4rKu5> hehehe
18:40 <@echarp> where are you socrates, to defend me against those folly! :)
18:41 < M4rKu5> :-D
18:41 < illegale> :)
18:41 <@echarp> and what are you day jobs if you have any?
18:41 < M4rKu5> shouldn't we talk about TOP? ;-)
18:41 < illegale> In two minutes
18:41 < illegale> Student long time
18:41 < M4rKu5> post graduate student
18:41 < illegale> MArkus is postgraduate stuff student
18:42 < M4rKu5> now waiting for an asistant job
18:42 < M4rKu5> you?
18:42 <@echarp> I'm going home, will be back in some 45minutes
18:42 < illegale> Tc
18:42 <@echarp> me software engineer
18:42 < M4rKu5> nice
18:42 < illegale> Usefull stuff
18:42 < illegale> Did you say it to Mark?
18:42 <@echarp> consulting and stuff, good wage, sometimes interesting
18:43 <@echarp> I'd rather not over use this kind of silly authority
18:43 < M4rKu5> hehehhe
18:43 <@echarp> ok, you stay around guys, I'll be back in a short while
18:44 < M4rKu5> ok
18:44 <@echarp> and will read whatever you say in my absence, so watch out ;)
18:44 < illegale> Cool
18:44 < illegale> Markus, lets go private
18:44 < M4rKu5> hehe nes ti nista skuzit ;-)
18:44 <@echarp> arg!!!!
18:44 < illegale> hehe
18:44 < illegale> call some french guys
18:44 <@echarp> there are rules to this war! no torture! )
18:44 <@echarp> :)
18:44 < M4rKu5> ;-)
18:45 * M4rKu5 throws tomato
18:46 <@echarp> ok, à tout de suite
18:46 * echarp runs away from those weird speaking tomatoes
18:47 < M4rKu5> hehehehhe
18:47 < illegale> otiso
18:47 < illegale> Markus, ocemo mi malo po nasem, ha?
18:47 < illegale> Volio bih da se isfura ona spika sa cvorovima.
18:47 < M4rKu5> eto tako da i kad se kopira na grupu nece nas kuzit nist
18:48 < M4rKu5> sto to?
18:48 < illegale> Linkanje i afirmacija javnih kanala kao prvi korak prema ostvarenju nvoe paradigme
18:48 < M4rKu5> mislis ono da je TOP cvor koji spaja inicijative
18:48 < M4rKu5> ok, i ja isto
18:48 < illegale> Moj spoj sa svijetom je TOP spike
18:48 < M4rKu5> kuzim
18:49 < illegale> Samo, ne mora bit top jedini cvor, poanta je uspsotaviti mrezu i optmizirati je
18:49 < M4rKu5> dakako
18:49 < illegale> Isfurati pravila koja osiguravaju optimizaciju i slijediti ih
18:50 < M4rKu5> da, ako nam to pro?e mo?emo dalje fatat nove inicijative
18:50 < M4rKu5> eh da kako ti se ?ini wiki?
18:51 < illegale> dobar je, btw dodji na stranicu od joi ita. mislm na kanal
18:51 < M4rKu5> koji je?
18:52 < M4rKu5> ??? si tu
18:54 < illegale> Evo me, pogledaj gdi sam
18:55 < M4rKu5> hehe, nisam ti ja na mircu... samo reci ime kanala
18:56 < illegale> joiito
18:56 < M4rKu5> eto me ;-)
19:44 <@echarp> I'm back
19:44 <@echarp> incomprehensible! what a language you are speaking! :)
19:46 < illegale> It is coded. We lear that coding in our kindergardens
19:46 < illegale> So, do you want me to decode it for you?
19:47 <@echarp> nah, it's no problem, I can manage not understanding things :)
19:48 < illegale> Cool ability
19:48 <@echarp> so, how is #joiito ?
19:48 <@echarp> many many people on it
19:48 < illegale> We had a little talk
19:48 < illegale> It is still going on, actually
19:49 < illegale> Joi is not there, but we are bugging them with new aproaches stuff.
19:49 <@echarp> top principles yes
19:50 < illegale> more or less :-)
19:50 < illegale> So. E.
19:50 < illegale> I wanted to ask you something
19:54 <@echarp> yeap
19:54 <@echarp> don't hesitate, I'm open to questions
19:55 < illegale> http://groups.google.com/group/top-politics/browse_frm/thread/4de15bcfeae7da52/#
19:55 < illegale> Wht do you think about it? Acknowledgment of the public nod stuff?
19:57 <@echarp> public nod seems rather strange to me
19:57 <@echarp> I don't yet grok it fully
19:58 <@echarp> but I definitely agree about one thing: internet has the potential to change the way we do politics
19:58 < illegale> I am not so sure that any one of us on the top politics will be trigger for political movement that is in front of us
19:58 < illegale> BTW, do you expect political movement to happend in sme time=
20:00 * M4rKu5 is back! Keep out he's trowing tomatos!!!!
20:00 <@echarp> as in a revolution?
20:00 < M4rKu5> ;-)
20:00 <@echarp> lol
20:00 < illegale> IMO, this revolutionary new aproach to politics creates great potential which in the moment someone creates the channal, creates political movement
20:00 < illegale> I prefer not to use word revoluitonas it in politics have negative conotation
20:00 < illegale> Movement is better .-)
20:00 <@echarp> I think any revolution will not happen on a national scale, but from the bottom to the top
20:00 < M4rKu5> +1
20:00 < M4rKu5> I agree!
20:01 <@echarp> change will not happen in large organisations
20:01 < illegale> I think it wil happen on the large scale actually
20:01 < M4rKu5> Things just happen... slowly but they do...
20:01 < M4rKu5> Hmmm... I'm not so sure Gale
20:01 < illegale> Somthing lika a shrooms, where wen eed mycelia to win the forst first
20:01 <@echarp> uh?
20:01 < M4rKu5> ?
20:02 <@echarp> shrooms?
20:02 < illegale> Mushrooms
20:02 * M4rKu5 is confused
20:02 < illegale> Huh.
20:02 <@echarp> please, rewrite your last sentence, illegale
20:03 < illegale> I do agree with oyu it is bottom up stuff, yet it is bottom up stuff on the large scale.
20:03 < illegale> Something like mushrooms growing at the forest
20:03 < illegale> All together, soiled and watered properly by the large scale moments
20:03 <@echarp> but does it need to happen on the national scale to be important?
20:04 <@echarp> or international for that matter
20:04 < illegale> T ob e globaly imporztant, yes
20:04 <@echarp> is wikipedia important, or with a large potential at least
20:04 < illegale> In politics it is the fight between power centers. And we do have power centers not on the level ov states, but world.
20:05 < illegale> If you want to compete them, the easisest way is to use the same potential as these organsations use
20:05 < illegale> If you do not gain enough power, you have to obey to them, meaning no revolution stuff.
20:05 <@echarp> but why compete with them?
20:05 < illegale> Wikipedia is fine.
20:06 < M4rKu5> They will compete us sooner or later
20:06 < illegale> For certain aspects of our poitical lives this is needed.
20:06 <@echarp> ok, it's interesting, but give me 10minutes for my dinner ;)
20:06 < M4rKu5> ;-) good appetite
20:06 < illegale> Islamists / neo cons, this is a global fight that can be avoided only if you aproach to it from the same level
20:06 <@echarp> I'm not convinced at all that any change of interest must occur on the global stage
20:06 < illegale> bon apetite :D
20:06 <@echarp> merci
20:07 * echarp 'll be back in 5/10 minutes
20:07 < M4rKu5> hmmm.... Gale ne kuzim sto mu to?no ?eli? objasnit
20:08 < illegale> Ma brijem na svoje misljenje. A to je primjer Hrvatske. Ako mi postanemo neovisni sa prvom JOT vlasti, mozemo se komotno odreci svjeta i prihvatiti izolaciju, ako ne napravimo ovu pricu i u drugim diejlovma svjeta
20:08 < illegale> To je primjer
20:09 < M4rKu5> aha, pa reci tako brate, jednostavnim rje?nikom ;-)
20:09 < illegale> cccc
20:09 < illegale> :-)
20:10 < M4rKu5> hehe..
20:10 < M4rKu5> hej upravo vidjeh da si postavio viziju na wiki... Da ja to malo uredim?
20:11 < illegale> Moooze
20:12 < M4rKu5> rjeseno ;-)
20:13 < illegale> Brz si
20:13 < illegale> brb jest
20:13 < M4rKu5> ko vjetar ;-)
20:13 < illegale> :-)
20:14 < M4rKu5> da to mozda staviom tamo pod TiAktiv tako da ne namecemo viziju ili da ostavim tu gdje je pa da vidimo ?to ?e re?i?
20:15 < illegale> Moze pod Tiaktvi
20:15 < M4rKu5> ok
20:17 < illegale> WUWE?
20:17 < illegale> (what is up wiht E?)
20:21 < M4rKu5> rje?eno....
20:21 < M4rKu5> WUWE?
20:22 < illegale> kratice spike
20:23 < M4rKu5> ovu ne ku?im....
20:25 <@echarp> re
20:25 < M4rKu5> hey, E.
20:25 <@echarp> still got my yahourt to eat :)
20:25 < M4rKu5> hehe, just relax I have no more tomatos
20:26 <@echarp> so, does the world need and will change on a global basis?
20:26 <@echarp> :)
20:26 < M4rKu5> the world does change allready, organizations are the best proof for this
20:27 -!- beeli (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung2857.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
20:27 < M4rKu5> e-Busines, B2B, virtual organization... all because of the internet
20:27 < beeli> hey I am back
20:27 < beeli> link got broken
20:27 < M4rKu5> now I see double
20:27 < beeli> illegale does not exist anym or
20:27 < beeli> more
20:28 < beeli> At leastr it is not me
20:29 <@echarp> hello again beeli
20:29 <@echarp> M4rKu5: but that's local change, bottom-up stuff
20:29 <@echarp> clue train and all that
20:30 < M4rKu5> of course, I do not believe that top down will happen until a good infrastructure exists
20:30 < beeli> Hmh, need to define what is top down maybe?
20:30 <@echarp> top down would be things like united nations, nato, countries
20:30 < beeli> I suppose top down is when you are government, Right?
20:30 < beeli> OK
20:30 < M4rKu5> right
20:31 < beeli> Suppose that would be the moment we are looking for, yet till that moment bottom up we go :-)
20:31 <@echarp> bottom up would be associations, enterprises, individuals, but linked together
20:31 < beeli> Thoughm bottom up can eliminate need for top down, right?
20:31 < beeli> That would be actualyl democracy IMO
20:32 <@echarp> it somehow does yes, which is a lot of its interest
20:32 <@echarp> but large organisations tend to do everything they can to survive
20:33 < beeli> Yet, their true base and power is based on bottom too
20:33 < beeli> And we eliminate it step by step
20:33 < beeli> taking over stuff
20:34 < beeli> Markus, did you explain mushroom view to E?
20:34 <@echarp> we somehow try to eliminate it
20:35 <@echarp> you have to read la boétie
20:35 < beeli> English?
20:35 <@echarp> treaty on voluntary servitude, it talks about those things
20:36 <@echarp> it's been translated, 500 years old paper written by an 18 yo guy
20:37 < beeli> Long text?
20:37 <@echarp> not that long no
20:37 <@echarp> look it up on wikisource
20:38 < beeli> Markus gone?
20:38 < M4rKu5> I'm here, just a sec
20:39 <@echarp> no trouble
20:39 < beeli> I have to go now
20:39 <@echarp> beeli: so, why this pseudo?
20:39 < beeli> The link was bvroken and when i got back I use the new nick as long as it rembmers the firt one
20:39 < beeli> Strange
20:40 <@echarp> that happens
20:40 <@echarp> you have a ghost :)
20:40 < M4rKu5> I'm sorry but I have to go now... see y
20:41 <@echarp> cu
20:41 < beeli> Markus, see you!
20:41 <@echarp> M4rKu5: I hope to see you here again
20:41 < M4rKu5> and yes please someone c/p this to the group
20:41 <@echarp> we shall yes
20:41 < beeli> E, see you too. You are here, anyway :-)
20:41 < M4rKu5> ok
20:41 -!- beeli [i=ille...@cmung2857.cmu.carnet.hr] has left #parlement []
20:41 < M4rKu5> bye
20:41 -!- M4rKu5 [n=msch...@83.131.25.170] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:42 -!- illegale [i=ille...@cmung4228.cmu.carnet.hr] has quit [Success]
21:19 -!- illegale (illegale) [i=ille...@cmung355.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement
21:19 < illegale> there?
21:20 <@echarp> re
21:20 <@echarp> always there, or almost :)
21:21 < illegale> cool
21:21 < illegale> spe nding time with internet
21:21 <@echarp> and you, are you on your computer usually?
21:22 < illegale> whats up with 0/-1/+1
21:22 < illegale> yes
21:22 < illegale> if I go out with friends or with girlfriend or have to do or seep than not.
21:22 < illegale> rest of time yes
21:23 <@echarp> :)
21:23 < illegale> you
21:23 <@echarp> you can already vote by mail
21:23 < illegale> what do I send
21:23 <@echarp> as markus does from time to time, it is right away reflected on http://leparlement.org
21:24 <@echarp> in your mail, just write 0, 1 or -1 at the beginning of a line, then the parent post is increased with that score
21:24 < illegale> send to?
21:24 <@echarp> it works on the web since today, but only on my development machine
21:24 <@echarp> just send it as you do usually, no difference
21:25 < illegale> OK, Id like to see who voted in what manner.
21:25 < illegale> Is it possible?
21:25 <@echarp> you can, just read your mails ;)
21:25 <@echarp> but not many have voted, it's very disparate
21:25 <@echarp> no issue yet, where we ask everybody to vote on
21:25 < illegale> look, google has voting too
21:26 < illegale> yet I do not find it intereting as long as I do not know was some bot voting, or some I respect.
21:26 < illegale> That vote in that manner means not much to me
21:26 <@echarp> I agree
21:26 <@echarp> I will have to implement an electoral list, one against which votes are counted
21:27 < illegale> Cool
21:27 < illegale> What do you think about Magnus, Eric Markus you and me doing a front.
21:27 < illegale> I mean is it promissing idea to you?
21:27 < illegale> You are our important link you know :-)
21:28 <@echarp> it's very interesting yes
21:28 < illegale> Mark, Charles, Pether?
21:28 < illegale> BTW, whats up with the german guy?
21:28 <@echarp> charles is fine, yet we are definitely not on the same foundations
21:29 <@echarp> klaus is the one who create "our-constitution"
21:29 < illegale> he wont come back?
21:29 < illegale> PS, what a name :D
21:31 < illegale> Klaus, where are you from? :-D
21:31 <@echarp> I think he just watch what we are doing
21:31 <@echarp> you like the name?
21:31 < illegale> It is typical german name
21:31 < illegale> From jokes, etc
21:31 <@echarp> :)
21:31 < illegale> You ar in contact with him?
21:32 <@echarp> yeap
21:32 <@echarp> he's got some thoughts about constructing something larger
21:32 < illegale> Had some work together?
21:32 < illegale> than what?
21:32 <@echarp> ambitious, and clever, a good combination
21:32 <@echarp> larger than simple internet groups
21:33 < illegale> What would be his stating point?
21:34 <@echarp> european institutions possibly
21:35 <@echarp> or a company
21:36 < illegale> company? offering what?
21:37 <@echarp> in discussions ;)
21:37 < illegale> No vague ides?=
21:37 <@echarp> right now he is in hong kong, studying
21:38 <@echarp> ideas yes
21:38 <@echarp> around democracy<anne>
21:38 <@echarp> oups
21:39 < illegale> :-9
21:39 < illegale> He might see Eric when comming back, on his way home
21:40 <@echarp> he's got projects along those lines?
21:41 < illegale> Not sure
21:41 < illegale> Yet, I find Eric be cool guy.
21:41 < illegale> Very organised
21:41 < illegale> impretant thing
21:43 < illegale> Surfing xxx?
21:43 < illegale> :-D
21:44 <@echarp> lol
21:44 <@echarp> nah, watching some bits of monthy python
21:44 <@echarp> lovely holy grail!
21:44 < illegale> nice
21:46 < illegale> I had some surgery work on bottom
21:46 < illegale> So, it is hard to sit lot of time
21:46 < illegale> I can lie and stand but not sit
21:46 < illegale> Stupid thing
21:47 <@echarp> oh :(
21:47 <@echarp> you probably can use a nice laptop then
21:47 < illegale> http://www.pilonidal.org/stories_archives/stories18.htm
21:47 < illegale> That shit happened to me.
21:48 < illegale> :-D
21:48 < illegale> Have no lap top, baaad
21:49 < illegale> This is grossy one
21:49 < illegale> http://pilonidal.fotopic.net/c156093.html
21:50 < illegale> have to go
21:50 < illegale> cu
21:51 -!- illegale [i=ille...@cmung355.cmu.carnet.hr] has quit []
--- Log closed ven jun 02 00:00:07 2006
MG
Jun 2, 2006, 11:07:16 AM6/2/06
to top-politics
Interesting, guys! ;-)
Mark
Jun 2, 2006, 11:33:21 PM6/2/06
to top-politics
18:31 < illegale> Mark is Good
-M: :-)
18:32 * echarp coughs
18:32 < illegale> What?
18:32 < M4rKu5> he is, but sometimes he tries to go with his head
thruog the wall
-M: I am using a *truth assault* method - this isn't the most effective
strategy for the short term, which is why few people use it.
18:32 <@echarp> I'd like to talk to him about his vocabulary and use of
silly logic
-M: Go for it.
18:32 < illegale> He is in Jesus stage IMO
-M: Bow to me! I am the almighty creator of SD2!
18:33 <@echarp> he thinks he has found a loop in human language, and he
overuses it
-M: Repetition is a common mind-control technique.
(It has aesthetic drawbacks, though.)
18:33 < illegale> LOl
18:33 <@echarp> enlightened, all that :)
-M: I am awakened, not enlightened(but my Master is.)
And I didn't volunteer this information, you asked.
18:33 < M4rKu5> :-D
18:33 < M4rKu5> well once he'll find out how stuff works
-M: 'stuff' - human networks? programming? marketing?
18:34 <@echarp> I'm sure we all have our flaws, and every body sees
them but our self :)
18:34 < illegale> Anyway, he might succeed in this way. I doubt it, but
he might.
18:34 <@echarp> energy, which is of much interest
18:34 <@echarp> I do envy that
-M: Righto - *truth assault* requires energy and gets interest.
18:34 < M4rKu5> he might ;-)
18:35 < M4rKu5> but he wastes a lot of energy on nothing
18:35 < illegale> Been there, done that :-))
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)))))
18:35 < illegale> But that it wears off after a while
18:35 < M4rKu5> so you're smarter now
18:35 < M4rKu5> ;-)
-M: Watch me. I am an expert.
shanti
Mark, Seattle WA USA
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