General camp logistics.

[Paul]

I am really excited about bringing an installation and camp to
Toorcamp. However, I am concerned at the lack of updates and
information being disseminated about basic services such as
electricity, water and even camp placement in general. While my my
camp and I had intended on being self-sufficient to the level of
Burning Man (i.e., we get toilets and that's about it), if we knew we
had resources such as water, showers, gray water disposal, etc. that
would allow us to haul less from the other side of the US that we
wouldn't need.

While I know the organizers are probably busy working very hard as the
event approaches to make sure it goes off without a hitch, letting
some of your community in on what's going on might be beneficial for
both groups. Yes, the event is being run by you, but the event is
ostensibly for us. Hence, let us know what WE need to do to make YOUR
lives easier! :) If there is anything my camp or I can do to make
this event a success, please let us know.

Unlike traditional hacker cons, which really separate the presenters/
organizers/logistics from the attendees and participants, I believe
something like this really blurs those lines. All of us will be in
this thing together with almost everyone having some responsibility
for something whether its for Toorcamp proper, their theme camp or
even just for themselves. I find the prospect fascinating but
understand why there are a lot of unknowns on everything from
logistics and infrastructure to organization and social dynamics...
but I digress.

In closing, any more information would be appreciated and in the
meantime, just remember to breath!

- Froggy

P.S. The Notacamp Caravan is leaving from Cleveland Tuesday
afternoon. If you are on our path or otherwise would like to join us,
please let me know ASAP.

[3ric Johanson]

Let's see if I can field some of that information:

<not a conference organizer, just a theme camp known as HBL camp>

- water: last update I heard was something about a 1500 galllon tanker truck. Unknown refill schedule
- power:  a mumble kw rented uber power thing; something in excess of 50kw+ Primary power for theme camps and general conference stuff.. and tprofit's cock and balls. .. ahem, I mean, his sound system. AFAIK, general camping will not have a feed from this power source, and are on their own?  I don't know.
- toilets: unknown.  Been promised to have a pot to piss in, I'm assuming that will become true.
- gray water: our camp is likely going to setup a evap pool
- trash:  We'll have some dumpsters, with some unknown pickup schedule and size
- camp layout:  I believe the theme camps have been assigned location, but I don't know that the general camping has been firmed up.  I believe divide and jaq own this.  I don't know when the map will become public knowledge.
- showers:  I believe this con might try and top the fragrance of notacon.  I don't know of any public showers.  Our camp is setting up a small shower, but we really only have water budget for ourselves.  Now, sharing some shower time, might be an option, but ya'll will have to work that out using personal ads on craigslist.   Our fallback is to split the costs on a near hotel room, and just pack out there to shower.

HBL camp is doing setup wendesday, breaking camp sunday.  We could use help building our structure if anyone wants to play "who's a ninja?" with us.   Rewards will be offered, but you probally won't like the rewards anyway.  :)  

In general, bringing really, really long high gague extension cords seems handy to have along.   Our camp is planning on packing in it's own water.... 1500 gallons hardly seems like enough for this many people, but I've not looked closely at it.

I hope this helps in some way!

-3

PS.  our camp is still on the hunt for more LED lighting.   120volt AC, any formfactor of LED lighting desired.   If anyone has stuff they can loan us, please get in touch.   Hackers cannot navigate by laser light alone.

[Froggy]

Yeah, it does. Thanks!

We, too, are already planning on trucking in our own water and setting
up our own private shower. At least this event is in the out-of-doors
and any odors can dissipate a little faster... provided there's at
least some air movement...

I was hoping to not have to deal with evap, but you convinced me
otherwise. I'll just have to buck down and do it. At least having
some trash disposal will be nice.

We should be rolling in late Wednesday and leaving Monday, and after
we get our dome and other structures up I'll be happy to throw a few
people your way ;)

- Froggy

[Tim Huynh]

Sorry for the lack of information. Just assume we will not let you die out there. There will be plenty of potable water for drinking and cooking. We have showers and porta-potties. There will be evaporators for gray water disposal. We have medical, fire and safety covered. Food vendors will be there for the times you don't feel like cooking or feel like having a latte. There will be compost piles for the environmentally leet. We will have generated power put it will be limited. Don't bring your portable jaccuzi unless you bring your own genereator.

For the most part we want people to figure things out for themselves, work together to resolve communal issues and start dialogs like this to be self sufficient. We are small enough to allow ourselves and our attendees to stumble a little. Regardless of your learning curve we have made sure everyone will have their basic health and safety needs covered.

Hope that helps!

Thanks,
Tim

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Paul <fro...@notacon.org> wrote:

--
Tim Huynh
Vice-Chairman
ToorCon: Information Security Conference

ToorCamp
July 2-5, 2009
Titian Missile Silo, Odessa, WA

ToorCon 11
23-25 Oct, 2009
San Diego Convention Center

ToorCon: Seattle V2.00
Spring 2010

[Froggy]

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tim Huynh<nfi...@toorcon.org> wrote:
> Sorry for the lack of information. Just assume we will not let you die out

...
> Hope that helps!

It does! Thank you so much!

- Froggy

[3ric Johanson]

Tim!  Thanks so much for the info!  Questions:

- Where are the evap pools located?   I assume we can haul over the output from our modest shower and other gray water sources?
- What hours are the food vendors operating?
- Where is this compost pile of 'leetness? I don't want to step in that much leet late at night.
- What should our camp budget for trash levels you are willing to accept in the toorcamp dumpster?  one 55 gallon trash can a day? less? more?  We have ~35 people in our camp.
- What is the plan for running power to the RV and general camping areas?  When I last looked at it, the spider boxes from the primary generator were located pretty far away (200? 300 feet?) from the primary generator

Cheers,
-3ric

[Christopher Abad]

beef to all

[Tim Huynh]

-Evap pools will be next to the showers on the other side of the fence line. We will have a "sink" that people can pour their gray water into and that will empty into our pools.

-Our vendors will be serving all meals and late night snacks. Its really up to demand that will dictate their hours. They will be camping on the site so there is a lot of flexibility.

-Compost piles will be away from the camp near the dumpster and will be in a clearly marked bin

-Lets minimize trash. Instead of pure disposables, try to use plates and utensils that are compostable or reusable. We will have compostable plates and utensils for sale at the store. They are pricey (~$10 for 50 plates) so I'd advice just using plastic washable stuff.

-Power for the group sites should be quite excessable based on your needs. We will have a couple of genarators all about the camp. Jaquiline and Divide, our group coordianators, can help you with any power needs.
 

Thanks,
Tim

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 AM, 3ric Johanson <ericjo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Christopher Abad]

are there any campfires at toorcamp anywhere at all? an official toorcamp one? anything?

[Tim Huynh]

Individual camps will not be allowed to build their own fires. We will have 1 large fire for the Camp.

thanks,
Tim

[Christopher Abad]

aweSOMES!

[Froggy]

Are fires allowed in camps if they are grills or other structures that
allow people to cook over them, provided they are attended and offer
the ability to protect flying embers from escaping?

We have a large barrel we were intending on using as a stove for
steaks and other grillables. The barrel can be covered by a wire
mesh lid. In addition, we will have at least 2 fire extinguishers on
site.

From what it sounds like, this may be verboten.

- Froggy

[David Huerta]

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Tim Huynh<nfi...@toorcon.org> wrote:
> Individual camps will not be allowed to build their own fires. We will have
> 1 large fire for the Camp.
>
> thanks,
> Tim

Will this other communal fire be spread out over a large line of
flame, or concentrated in one area? just wondering since this sounds
like peeps will need to wait in a line to cook/boil water/etc.

--
[.dh]

[Rubin Abdi]

David Huerta wrote, On 2009/06/25 22:17:
> Will this other communal fire be spread out over a large line of
> flame, or concentrated in one area? just wondering since this sounds
> like peeps will need to wait in a line to cook/boil water/etc.

I think the idea is that there will be no "camp fires" in the camps
(except for the main camp fire) but camping stoves shouldn't be a
problem. Also dealing with one large fire for the cooking purposes of
multiple people is rather annoying.

Second guess is that this large and mighty camp fire will be for warmth,
show, hotdogs and marshmallows. One last guess is that at some point,
someone, will attempt to jump the fire as to be seen as "that guy" by
strangers.

--
Rubin Abdi
ru...@starset.net

[NUXI]

On Jun 26, 1:37 am, Rubin Abdi <ru...@starset.net> wrote:
> Second guess is that this large and mighty camp fire will be for warmth,
> show, hotdogs and marshmallows. One last guess is that at some point,
> someone, will attempt to jump the fire as to be seen as "that guy" by
> strangers.
>

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack jump over the thermite pit?

--
Jon
X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).

[Lokkju Brennr]

ooooh...  there better be thermite.

[Tim Huynh]

The campfire is not intended for cooking. We would like people to use gas grills to cook. Based on current conditions, it will be safe to use char coal grills out there now. Individual fires are still not permitted. You may dump coals in the camp fire pit.

Thanks,
Tim