crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle

[Torsten Wagner]

Hey all,

since my mobile phone contract is going to end, I was looking for alternatives.
However, as you all know Japanese mobile phone market is close to insanity.

All this plans, dozen of different options, half of which are
"mandatory options" (that is so ridiculous to have "must-tick"
options)...
Another half dozen of options which can or can not be canceled a few
weeks later.
All together with special offers, special plans, special service and
sure a dozen of money back offers.

And to all this horror people at the counter are, let me say polite,
still on there way of being professional. They actually telling you
stuff which is simply not true and on most and all more difficult
questions they ask you to wait for them as they go to get feedback
from a supervisor.

Actually, my phone is fine and I was considering to reuse it but maybe
switch to a cheaper plan with data-flat. I asked in several shops...
None of them could tell me if they just offer a bare standard contract
offering just a SIM card, no new phone, no special whatever options.
Just a monthly fee and a SIM card. I ended up again and again in a
selling conversation for a new phone.

On the other hand I know many stuff is possible, as long as you show
the staff in the shop exactly what you want to have and point them to
hard facts. They will check up again and again with the supervisors
but eventually, after hours of debating and waiting you might end up
with a SIM card.

So maybe we can summarize here the most easiest and cheapest way to
run a mobile phone in Japan without trapping in all this
super-offer-option-payback-point-collection nonsens...
That is a topic which is coming up over and over again on this list
and if we find some sane good solutions we could add this to the THS
page.

Ok here is a start

Long-time residents (2 years and longer):
Just sign up for one of the plenty 2 year contract offers, make sure
you do not pay to much for the phone (the price given is not the
market price), ask for discounts if you pay the phone in one go, take
a native Japanese speaker with you (it's not only language but also
cultural translation), try to avoid as many of the "attractive"
options as possible, make sure you can cancel the mandatory options
later. Do not get talked into something!

Mid-time residents (3 month - 2 years):
Try to get a bare SIM card offer and use it in your own phone.
Make a 2 year contract like above but check out for cancellation fees
if you have to cancel in advance.

Short-time visitors (<3 month):
Use some of the prepaid SIM cards like bmobile and your own phone
Rent a phone from services at the airport or online

Totti

[Akiba]

I normally recommend to people that don't want to get locked into a 2 year
contract to buy a used phone directly from Janpara and get it activated at
the phone company of your choice. Make sure the phone and company are
compatible. Janpara used phones reflect the real market price of the phones
(usually cheap) plus a discount based on the fact that it's used.

Here's the smart phone category at Janpara. It's where I buy my smart phones
for dev.
http://www.janpara.co.jp/sale/search/result/?OUTCLSCODE=46

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs

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[Torsten Wagner]

Hey Akiba,

> contract to buy a used phone directly from Janpara and get it activated at

yeah and that "activated" is what troubling me at the moment. Non of
the shop-clerks I asked so far had even the idea to "activate" it...
they always start to talk me into buying a new phone... actually with
stories like "The plain SIM card is more expensive because there is no
discount, take a new phone and a new 2 year contract is much
cheaper"... which is actually a big plain lie. Just sum up all the
different positions and options together with the installment paying
for the phone and you end up with something much higher compared to
the plain SIM card price they offer at least theoretically.

Totti

[Akiba]

My understanding is that it takes approximately 3500 yen to activate a
pre-existing phone. After that, then you have to choose the plan and fill
out all the paperwork etc. But you don't need to worry about a long contract
where you slowly pay off the phone and have penalties for quitting (ie: pay
the stupid jacked up price for the phone) etc...

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Torsten Wagner

[Torsten Wagner]

But thanks for the link.

By "make sure they are compatible" you mean technologically?!
As far as I understood all smartphones should operate with all
networks (maybe beside of some very strange models or networks).
Getting an international available smartphone should work isn't it?

Totti

[Richard Frankum]

"Compatible" would usually mean "the carrier's store sells that model phone."
Otherwise they won't know how to fill out the paperwork.

I've also heard that there's a certification mark that needs to be on
the phone, and isn't included on international models. Dunno details
about that though.

--Richard

--Richard Frankum

[Akiba]

Unfortunately that's not true. All smartphones are locked to their carrier.
Docomo has started a program where if you pay a small fee (like 3500 yen),
they will unlock the phone for you. You have to present residence ID or
passport with valid visa or some BS like that to make sure you're not some
drug kingpin trying to set up an illicit male prostitution ring in Japan. In
any case, that's why you have to purchase a phone that is for the provider
you will be using, ie: eMobile devices for eMobile service, Softbank iPhone
for Softbank, AU iPhone for AU, etc...

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Torsten Wagner

> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:45 AM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

[Akiba]

That is of course unless you unlock the phone yourself, and then it should
be open to use on any provider network.

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Torsten Wagner

> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:45 AM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

[Torsten Wagner]

Hey Richard,

that's exactly one of the stories I heard.
So its more a "administrative" rather then a technological issue.
However, on the net you can find people coming from abroad who, after
hours of waiting and debating were able to get e.g. a iPhone SIM card
for there "imported" (even non-iPhone) phone. I think it solely
depends on your negotiation skills and the competency of the clerk...
as far as I saw, for the last there are very huge differences.

Totti

[Richard Frankum]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Richard Frankum
<richard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've also heard that there's a certification mark that needs to be on
> the phone, and isn't included on international models. Dunno details
> about that though.

From the "formerly softbanksucks" blog, a really good source for this
kind of info.
http://www.japanmobiletech.com/2012/06/mic-warning-poster-on-uncertified.html

I have seen the ads, but didn't make the connection to smartphones.

--
--Richard Frankum

[Yura102]

Hi All,

From my recent experience, I bought a Softbank USIM card for an used
Softbank phone for about 3500 yen.

When my wife was talking to the shop clerk the first time he suggested to
buy a new phone because it's cheaper but we refused. The clerk said we have
to "register" our used phone to make it work with the new USIM card. But I
pull out my own Softbank phone and put another USIM card from my sons phone
and it all worked perfectly but the clerk suggested us to buy USIM when we
already have the actual phone. My wife decided to follow the procedure and
when I got the used phone she went to the shop and "registered" the phone
and bough a new USIM. The "registration/activation" was free, USIM with
White Plan + email plan but without special flat data plan (~4500yen)
because the used phone was not a smart phone. I guess if you bring a
smartphone then you have to buy a special Flat-rate data plan to protect
youself from huge bills for data packets. That is the only reason to bring
the phone to shop and buy SIM card with the relevant data plan.

Regards,
Yura

[Akiba]

I think that was the smart decision. You could try to fight the system and
not register, but that kind of thing just ends up as a headache, especially
in Japan where you're just expected to follow orders. 3500 yen is pretty
much what I heard too and its quite nice because you won't get stuck in some
stupid ass contract. The downside is you pay for the phone upfront but it's
usually less than half the price they state. For my HTC EVO WiMax, I think
AU states around 40,000 yen and you can pick it up at Janpara for under
10,000 yen.

I'm now thinking to pick up an eMobile LTE pure data device. Last weekend
hooking up my phone to the 12V battery and having an active hotspot for 15
hours was quite nice. The only drawback was that people kept calling me to
find the location so I kept on having to unplug from the battery. The
eMobile GP02 LTE modem is like 8000 yen used and from there, you just
activate it and pay 3800/month for LTE service.

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Yura102
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:47 PM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

[Torsten Wagner]

Not only a headache,
but the already mentioned Softbanksucks blog covers stories were
people get charged full because they used SIM cards on "not-activated"
devices....
Look at your billl they charge you each and every kB of data usage.
They sum up like 1 mill. Yen for data usage and then apply a discount
for the data-flat. reducing it from 1 mill. to 3500 Yen or so....
Well by this method they can always argue that you violate the
contract and hence the data-flat option is not covering the usage and
then they are going to charge you the entire amount.... so be careful
esp. when it comes to data usage and any exotic mix of phones/modems
sim-cards combos.

Totti

[Richard Frankum]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Akiba <ch...@freaklabs.org> wrote:
> I think that was the smart decision. You could try to fight the system and
> not register, but that kind of thing just ends up as a headache, especially
> in Japan where you're just expected to follow orders.

It's hard to tell what the smart decision is - if you're looking for a
3G voice connection it's much different from looking for a data-only
SIM. In the latter case, I think b-mobile is the way to go. In the
former, you'll be caught up with Softbank offering the data-pakehodai
versus smartphone-data-pakehodai maze.

In any case, make doubly sure you check your first couple bills to get
a grasp of your average usage. You could also check online and not
wait for the billing cycle, but I've found that needs a really high
Japanese ability.

--
--Richard Frankum

[Akiba]

For the bMobile flat rate data USIM, you should be aware that its data only.
SMS and voice is not covered. Also, bMobile is a reseller for NTT Docomo
prepaid service, something NTT Docomo got out of a while back. So unless
you're using an unocked phone, you can only use Docomo phones that support
full sized SIM cards with the bMobile service.

Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Frankum
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 3:30 PM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

[Taylan Ayken]

I recently got a smartphone. And I can tell that there are differences between official Softbank shops (English speaking ones like Shibuya (big one) or Harajuku) and others (like Labi Shiuya). It is always better to go to official ones as they know the latest rules. As an example, I got my friends some prepaid USIMs last year when they came here for their internship with tourist visa. They were able to get it with their passports, and there was the possibility of using an old Softbank phone without a charge. This was in Shibuya shop. Then when my gf arrived, they were out of USIM cards in Shibuya shop so we went to one near our house. She didn't have her work visa yet and they said that she cannot get one so I had to sign up the contract, they even told me that they need my passport and I told them that I was living here for 1.5 years and my Alien Registration card was enough everywhere. She made some calls, which took about 15 minutes, then we got the card.

Then there is my smartphone getting adventure. It took more than 1 hour as the lady read the contract to me as I was not able to read kanji, sometimes she didn't understand it as the language is a bit strange, sometimes she had to use more common words for me to understand. She said it was totally different than my old 3G contract but it was the same bullshit in the end. I signed up for the unlimited plan as it gave me a huge discount which meant that instead of paying 2580 yen per month for the phone, I can get it for 380 yen a month. Then at the very end, because they entered my phone number (hence my Softbank customer number) wrong, they found out that the phone I have was on a loan as my real phone was in repair and I was not eligible to get a new phone. AT THE VERY END! I told them that it is my phone, it was real hard to convince them that it was my phone, then I realized that they used the wrong phone number. This meant changes in 3-4 forms, more signing, and a minor heart attack.

I got my first bill a few days ago, I'll see how it goes for 2-3 months and them see if it is possible to end some of the packages I had to sign up to make the process faster. She told me that it was possible for an insurance packet (there were 2, one mandatory) and another packet which I forgot. I advise all to go to one of the big and official (aka English speaking) Softbank shops if you are making any changes. Speaking English makes the process faster, the contract is in English so you can read it for yourself and the rules they have seem to be more flexible than the other shops.

---

From: Torsten Wagner <torsten...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:19406] crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle

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[Chris Shannon]

somebody should design & build a opensource cell phone thats printable and takes any sim.

c

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[Torsten Wagner]

ohhh I have a name for it lets call it openmokoreprap

Totti

[Richard Frankum]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Taylan Ayken <taylan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I got my first bill a few days ago, I'll see how it goes for 2-3 months and
> them see if it is possible to end some of the packages I had to sign up to
> make the process faster. She told me that it was possible for an insurance
> packet (there were 2, one mandatory) and another packet which I forgot

Possibly this?
http://mb.softbank.jp/en/price_plans/smartphone_basic.html
It's kind of mysterious that these scams work, considering that the
clerk's advice will usually be "You'll get ___ discount now, and then
you should call and cancel the service next month." I haven't yet
found a SB shop that pushed the shady sell.

I was able to do the "Usage Stoppage Service" (there's some Engrish
for you!) when I lost my phone in Seattle, even though I don't
subscribe to the service. So there's that.

I don't think it's a bad idea to go to a store and ask about their
data plans. You may not get the most technical clerk, but they're
required to know the carrier service and if they don't you can ask
them to call someone else. Like anything else in Japan, you WILL need
patience.

--
--Richard Frankum

[Torsten Wagner]

Nice to read that I am not the only one who suffers with this ;)
Luckly Japanese people are very patient and nice. Guess in other
countries there would be 5-6 killed mobile phone clerks at the end of
each day ;)

Totti

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[Richard Frankum]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Chris Shannon <csha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> somebody should design & build a opensource cell phone thats printable and
> takes any sim.

The problem is designing and building an open source carrier. :)


> c

--
--Richard Frankum

[Taylan Ayken]

Cannot remember. But I keep everything, so I can bring the documents tomorrow. One of them was just a list with packages, a little explanation underneath and a check mark next to them.

---

From: Richard Frankum <richard...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:19417] crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle

[Torsten Wagner]

This sounds like the mandatory options.... you was a good boy and
ticked them all right ;)

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[Taylan Ayken]

Well, these guys did it: https://rabbit-hole.org/2011/06/04/more-bars-in-more-airspaces/

---

From: Richard Frankum <richard...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:19419] crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle

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[Taylan Ayken]

I didn't, she did. But I told her to tick them all. It was about 35-40 minutes after I pointed to the phone I wanted to have, after a long day at lab, with my gf waiting for me (she managed to finish her work, come to LABI, get pissed off about waiting long long time and go to eat dinner while I tried to finish signing the contract!). I was sleepless, hungry, thirsty.. One can say that the contract is useless as it was signed after psychological torture. :D

---

From: Torsten Wagner <torsten...@gmail.com>

To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:19421] crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle

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[fakufaku]

Open mesh network with 900MHz freakduinos anyone ?

[Richard Frankum]

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:58 AM, fakufaku <faku...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Open mesh network with 900MHz freakduinos anyone ?

I thought 900 MHz was Softbank's new Platinum band?
--
--Richard Frankum

[Jud Taylor]

I was thinking "crazy Japanese mobile phone jungle" would be a great
name for a dance club.

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[@japhigu]

We'll talk later :D This thread has been illuminating.