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all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
"illegal"
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conspirationist POV:
watch youtube, no prosecution (2 years jail and fine), but gets under legal
and justified internet surveillance.
is 1984 getting closer?
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
> of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
> claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
> "illegal"
> raises ALL sorts of questions.
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
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1984 is past already....
1984 relay on terminals in your house and on the fact that people spy at you
we already got much worse that this utopia
We offer our-self on social platforms and carry devices around which
allows to track us at all time...
George Orwell would have a heck of fun writing 2084
Totti
On 3 October 2012 12:36, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> conspirationist POV:
> watch youtube, no prosecution (2 years jail and fine), but gets under legal
> and justified internet surveillance.
> is 1984 getting closer?
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
>> of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
>> claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
>> "illegal"
>> raises ALL sorts of questions.
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> --
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> 1984 is past already....
> 1984 relay on terminals in your house and on the fact that people spy at
> you
> we already got much worse that this utopia
> We offer our-self on social platforms and carry devices around which
> allows to track us at all time...
> George Orwell would have a heck of fun writing 2084
> Totti
> On 3 October 2012 12:36, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > conspirationist POV:
> > watch youtube, no prosecution (2 years jail and fine), but gets under
> legal
> > and justified internet surveillance.
> > is 1984 getting closer?
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
> >> of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
> >> claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
> >> "illegal"
> >> raises ALL sorts of questions.
> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> --
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If I may quote all the lawmakers out there: "If you are not doing something illegal, why are you worried? You got something to hide?"
No more illegal downloads guys, you have to actually buy those AKB48 albums.
________________________________
From: Torsten Wagner <torsten.wag...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohackerspace@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:20507] Re: Japan's new piracy laws
1984 is past already....
1984 relay on terminals in your house and on the fact that people spy at you
we already got much worse that this utopia
We offer our-self on social platforms and carry devices around which
allows to track us at all time...
George Orwell would have a heck of fun writing 2084
Totti
On 3 October 2012 12:36, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> conspirationist POV:
> watch youtube, no prosecution (2 years jail and fine), but gets under legal
> and justified internet surveillance.
> is 1984 getting closer?
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
>> of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
>> claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
>> "illegal"
>> raises ALL sorts of questions.
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> --
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yeah... but you see, I do not download stuff... never bothered with
bit-torrent.
I rent my movie from the store or iTunes (flames on me)
BUT
I do watch stuff on youtube... and I have no idea what the copyright deal
is there, I assume that, since it is there, it is legal... I sometime
donwload youtube videos in HD for later vision... especially if they keep
buffering.
and I do listen music on grooveshark ... same assumptions...
in my case, if I really like what I listen to, I do buy the plastic CD from
Amazon... so I am convinced that youtube and grooveshark can fit very well
in a marketing strategy to have actual sales...
in any case, life should be simpler... and not all countries follow this
model.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Taylan Ayken <taylan_ay...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If I may quote all the lawmakers out there: "If you are not doing
> something illegal, why are you worried? You got something to hide?"
> No more illegal downloads guys, you have to actually buy those AKB48
> albums.
> 1984 is past already....
> 1984 relay on terminals in your house and on the fact that people spy at
> you
> we already got much worse that this utopia
> We offer our-self on social platforms and carry devices around which
> allows to track us at all time...
> George Orwell would have a heck of fun writing 2084
> Totti
> On 3 October 2012 12:36, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > conspirationist POV:
> > watch youtube, no prosecution (2 years jail and fine), but gets under
> legal
> > and justified internet surveillance.
> > is 1984 getting closer?
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:17 PM, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> all courtesy of the local branch of the RIAA (RIAJ).
> >> of course the tech-savvy geniuses who created this steaming pile, also
> >> claim youtube viewing is classed as "illegal downloading" if it's deemed
> >> "illegal"
> >> raises ALL sorts of questions.
> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mikele <him...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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I think it's very possible that once people start getting arrested and
charged with data transfers that are actually legal, the police will decide
that the law is fucked up & bullshit. especially if the people getting
nailed are LDP and DPJ staff and politicians.
The scary thing is that the RIAJ wants ISPs to filter traffic at the
source, i.e. YOUR home, for which benefit the ISP will pay the RIAJ a
purely 'nominal' fee.
> The scary thing is that the RIAJ wants ISPs to filter traffic at the > source, i.e. YOUR home, for which benefit the ISP will pay the RIAJ a > purely 'nominal' fee.
Genius. This is how you make a living with music in 2012. Suck it, guitar wielding hippies!
The RIAJ will go aftwr some people, make examples of them. Its unfortunate, but every cause needs martars. Then they will put pressure on ISPs, who will try to comply. When the ISPs realize there is no legit way to monitor their users on the scale the law demands without vuolating 100 privacy laws, against hundreds of thousands of users, they will give up. Afterall, if they shut down every violator, theyd gave no paying customers. Eventually all concerned will realize going after sources rather thsn consumers would offer the most bsng for legal money. Most Japanese file sharing sources will be scared off. But the rule of the internet is that there will always be a "free place" or someone idealistic enough to fight the system in their country. See constant battles of pirate bay as example. Yet still they continue.
Eventually this will all go the course of Napster: a few souls "take one for the team" in order to "stick it to the man". This is all made possible by the fact that the masses never stop demanding free content. Its the "they cant catch all of us" theory.
Moral: If the law is wrong, following it wont affect change. You must dilliberately challenge it, in and and of court.
Laws only have lasting power when society deams the law just and fair, and a vast majority is willing to follow them. See 1920s USA prohibition.
Point taken. Except this is not the US or other Western nation where
protests have any kind of visible result - unless you want to talk about
the Battle-Damaged Tokyo University Campus in Hongo.
This will ONLY change here in a Top-Down movement, or at least
"Middle-Down" movement, if some major companies decide this will negatively
affect their business.
Companies have a lot of control here - ever wonder why there are so few
images (short answer = 0) of Japanese famous people on Wikipedia?
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:29 PM, MRE <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The RIAJ will go aftwr some people, make examples of them. Its
> unfortunate, but every cause needs martars.
> Then they will put pressure on ISPs, who will try to comply. When the ISPs
> realize there is no legit way to monitor their users on the scale the law
> demands without vuolating 100 privacy laws, against hundreds of thousands
> of users, they will give up. Afterall, if they shut down every violator,
> theyd gave no paying customers. Eventually all concerned will realize going
> after sources rather thsn consumers would offer the most bsng for legal
> money.
> Most Japanese file sharing sources will be scared off.
> But the rule of the internet is that there will always be a "free place"
> or someone idealistic enough to fight the system in their country.
> See constant battles of pirate bay as example. Yet still they continue.
> Eventually this will all go the course of Napster: a few souls "take one
> for the team" in order to "stick it to the man". This is all made possible
> by the fact that the masses never stop demanding free content.
> Its the "they cant catch all of us" theory.
> Moral: If the law is wrong, following it wont affect change. You must
> dilliberately challenge it, in and and of court.
> Laws only have lasting power when society deams the law just and fair, and
> a vast majority is willing to follow them. See 1920s USA
> prohibition.
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I can tell. I see Anonymous members protesting and giving speeches in Akihabara from time to time. Not a huge crowd, maybe 10 members in masks and 20-30 people listening and 1 police officer watching over but it is something.
What happens if we decide to do sth via Change.org? Me and Chris (the grumpy one) met their Japan Campaign Director, they can translate a petition prepare into Japanese (maybe) and we can promote it during Make (if we manage to join).
That's a lot of ifs but a way to act.
________________________________
From: sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohackerspace@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:20525] Re: Japan's new piracy laws
Point taken. Except this is not the US or other Western nation where protests have any kind of visible result - unless you want to talk about the Battle-Damaged Tokyo University Campus in Hongo.
This will ONLY change here in a Top-Down movement, or at least "Middle-Down" movement, if some major companies decide this will negatively affect their business.
Companies have a lot of control here - ever wonder why there are so few images (short answer = 0) of Japanese famous people on Wikipedia?
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:29 PM, MRE <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
The RIAJ will go aftwr some people, make examples of them. Its unfortunate, but every cause needs martars.
>Then they will put pressure on ISPs, who will try to comply. When the ISPs realize there is no legit way to monitor their users on the scale the law demands without vuolating 100 privacy laws, against hundreds of thousands of users, they will give up. Afterall, if they shut down every violator, theyd gave no paying customers. Eventually all concerned will realize going after sources rather thsn consumers would offer the most bsng for legal money.
>Most Japanese file sharing sources will be scared off.
>But the rule of the internet is that there will always be a "free place" or someone idealistic enough to fight the system in their country.
>See constant battles of pirate bay as example. Yet still they continue.
>Eventually this will all go the course of Napster: a few souls "take one for the team" in order to "stick it to the man". This is all made possible by the fact that the masses never stop demanding free content.
>Its the "they cant catch all of us" theory.
>Moral: If the law is wrong, following it wont affect change. You must dilliberately challenge it, in and and of court.
>Laws only have lasting power when society deams the law just and fair, and a vast majority is willing to follow them. See 1920s USA
>prohibition.
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to a certain extend they might welcome this movement. They do not like
people who download gigs of stuff. They prefer the users who pay 6.500
Yen a month to check there emails twice a week.
They couldn't deny access for heavy users and they couldn't blame them
for pirating (after all they were customers and the first ISP who
would start legal actions would loose his user base really fast).
Nobody wanted to get a bad-boy image.
Now.... they can easily claim they just follow law regulations and
kick out all the heavy users. They could do this and assure people how
much they dislike to do it... with a smile and a lot of "Sorry, its
because this new law".
Totti
On 4 October 2012 12:29, MRE <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The RIAJ will go aftwr some people, make examples of them. Its unfortunate, but every cause needs martars.
> Then they will put pressure on ISPs, who will try to comply. When the ISPs realize there is no legit way to monitor their users on the scale the law demands without vuolating 100 privacy laws, against hundreds of thousands of users, they will give up. Afterall, if they shut down every violator, theyd gave no paying customers. Eventually all concerned will realize going after sources rather thsn consumers would offer the most bsng for legal money.
> Most Japanese file sharing sources will be scared off.
> But the rule of the internet is that there will always be a "free place" or someone idealistic enough to fight the system in their country.
> See constant battles of pirate bay as example. Yet still they continue.
> Eventually this will all go the course of Napster: a few souls "take one for the team" in order to "stick it to the man". This is all made possible by the fact that the masses never stop demanding free content.
> Its the "they cant catch all of us" theory.
> Moral: If the law is wrong, following it wont affect change. You must dilliberately challenge it, in and and of court.
> Laws only have lasting power when society deams the law just and fair, and a vast majority is willing to follow them. See 1920s USA
> prohibition.
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The real problem is that this new law ignores the non local nature of
the intertubes. My expectation is that the RIAJ will at one point try
to prosecute someone who obtained content legally from an overseas
reseller (and downloaded it online), but that it was only possible
because that reseller was not enforcing regional distribution
limitations of the content, and because the RIAJ feels that it has
exclusive right to distribute that particular content in Japan, they
will flag you as an illegal downloader. In the end, that particular
individual will not go to jail, but the case will be used as an
opportunity to scare everyone else into only obtaining regulated
content from domestic online distributors. So at the time of the case,
there will be a bunch of discussion in the media of whether it is
illegal or not if you thought you legally bought it.
In just about any case, the Japanese courts will stick to the strict
letter of the law, vagueness and all, erring on the side of over doing
it, and ignore any obvious absurdity, with the understanding that,
like someone earlier in the thread said, this law will not be enforced
every day for every violator. They'll just have a few high profile
cases to scare everyone else into line.
Instead, providers, whether they use that particular monitoring system
or not, will end up blocking any music/video content source that isn't
a major corporate entity with a presence in Japan.
To me that is the real goal of the whole thing. The figures for rate
of illegal copying on which the law is based are probably bullshit.
But they sound good, and they did the job. The new laws will now be
mostly leveraged to weed out alternate, non RIAJ profiting content
sources.
Finally, content prices will go up.
Youtube won't be a problem because they basically play ball i Japan
already. It is the minor video sharing sites where the problems will
happen.
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure about the role of ISPs,
> to a certain extend they might welcome this movement. They do not like
> people who download gigs of stuff. They prefer the users who pay 6.500
> Yen a month to check there emails twice a week.
> They couldn't deny access for heavy users and they couldn't blame them
> for pirating (after all they were customers and the first ISP who
> would start legal actions would loose his user base really fast).
> Nobody wanted to get a bad-boy image.
> Now.... they can easily claim they just follow law regulations and
> kick out all the heavy users. They could do this and assure people how
> much they dislike to do it... with a smile and a lot of "Sorry, its
> because this new law".
> Totti
> On 4 October 2012 12:29, MRE <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The RIAJ will go aftwr some people, make examples of them. Its unfortunate, but every cause needs martars.
>> Then they will put pressure on ISPs, who will try to comply. When the ISPs realize there is no legit way to monitor their users on the scale the law demands without vuolating 100 privacy laws, against hundreds of thousands of users, they will give up. Afterall, if they shut down every violator, theyd gave no paying customers. Eventually all concerned will realize going after sources rather thsn consumers would offer the most bsng for legal money.
>> Most Japanese file sharing sources will be scared off.
>> But the rule of the internet is that there will always be a "free place" or someone idealistic enough to fight the system in their country.
>> See constant battles of pirate bay as example. Yet still they continue.
>> Eventually this will all go the course of Napster: a few souls "take one for the team" in order to "stick it to the man". This is all made possible by the fact that the masses never stop demanding free content.
>> Its the "they cant catch all of us" theory.
>> Moral: If the law is wrong, following it wont affect change. You must dilliberately challenge it, in and and of court.
>> Laws only have lasting power when society deams the law just and fair, and a vast majority is willing to follow them. See 1920s USA
>> prohibition.
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True. It is damn near imposible to get a company rep to do actusl customer service. Threaten to change phone carriers for example because the shop keeps giving you run around and they ask "oh. Is that what youd like to do? I can cancel your account today." Its the only useful thing they CAN do.
I agree with both chris h and sean.. even though theyre different pov. But id like to counter sean with:
Except for the distributedness of the internet. Also, dont underestemate the users ability to circumvent any form of restriction.
China locked out google. Yet ask any above average net user in china and youll fibd they use vpns or other forms of walking past the government blocks.
The only REAL enforcement the isp can do (other than legal action) is cut you off. Anything short of that, and people will find ways to circumvent or disguise.
Assume the isp cuts you off, like totti says. As thousands of potential customers hit the market, legal and black market isps will set up to hapilly provide services.
The only disadvantage Japan users have is being surrounded by ocean. The monent Iran went down, several illegal/diy bordercrossing hardlines, wifi boosters, radio and laser links went up. This eould be harder here.
Thankfully the young generation in Japan is more willing to question, and fight. The middle generation is questioning the cool-aid they served their kids more and more each day. Theres only one gen left thats truly passive about authority.
