I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes
regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it,
and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the
international convention?
What I have heard from many leaders is that TI is looking at doing away with Regional conferences as soon as 2010 - handling all District Leadership Training at the big convention. As far as the contest, all Regions would compete as the Interdistricts do, the prior Tuesday. Regardless of my love for the Regional contest system, I think this is a HORRIBLE idea, and I don't care who knows I think so, politics not-withstanding.
Part of TI is growing global, and they are touting this step as a way to do this. But in a organization built on supportive environments and relationships, taking the Region level out would seem to create a system of have and have nots. I know plenty of folks who would consider attending a local Regional, and then go to the next level by attending Int'l. Its a gradual stepping system. But how many folks would just jump from District to Int'l? The commitment, timewise, financially...its a major step. I believe we would quickly become an organization of Districts that don't work with one another combined with a leadership that is in a different world than the average club TM.
If we're trying to make the TI world a tighter community, why take out such a crucial socializing step as the Region Conference? Because they don't make money? Well, gee, find some better ways to hold Region conferences - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There we go - I've alienated about 75 percent of anyone who will ever judge me if I go back to the world stage. Guess its time to work on that career again.....
Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be keeping us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is running out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked at least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not so much.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Region conferences?
> I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it, > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the > international convention?
What a mistake to do away with Regions. It would move TM community
further away. Generally, Region conferences are much better for
workshops, you get to see a really good contest, and networking
opportunities abound. All that and they are at least fairly close by.
Region conferences are big enough and draw froma wide enough area to
meet new different people. They are also less harried so one can
actually meet and talk with many of the presenters and others. Bring
the Region concept to the world don't eliminate it in North America.
In most large organizations the rank and file do NOT really identify
with the headquarters. It is best to keep community face-to-face
events down lower. Leaping from District to International means one
will have to be quite well off do anything above one's district.
On Sep 5, 10:24 pm, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote:
> Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be keeping
> us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what
> Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is running
> out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked at
> least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not so
> much.
> Barbara
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com>
> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:05 PM
> Subject: Region conferences?
> > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes
> > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it,
> > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the
> > international convention?
By definition, people who attend the district and regional conferences
are really-into-Toastmasters. Doing away with the regional conferences
seems like a great way to alienate many of the organization's biggest
cheerleaders.
Of course, I have never attended a regional conference so I am just
speculating.
Thanks,
Jeff
On Sep 6, 4:41 pm, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What a mistake to do away with Regions. It would move TM community
> further away. Generally, Region conferences are much better for
> workshops, you get to see a really good contest, and networking
> opportunities abound. All that and they are at least fairly close by.
> Region conferences are big enough and draw froma wide enough area to
> meet new different people. They are also less harried so one can
> actually meet and talk with many of the presenters and others. Bring
> the Region concept to the world don't eliminate it in North America.
> In most large organizations the rank and file do NOT really identify
> with the headquarters. It is best to keep community face-to-face
> events down lower. Leaping from District to International means one
> will have to be quite well off do anything above one's district.
> On Sep 5, 10:24 pm, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote:
> > Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be keeping
> > us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what
> > Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is running
> > out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked at
> > least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not so
> > much.
> > Barbara
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com>
> > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:05 PM
> > Subject: Region conferences?
> > > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes
> > > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it,
> > > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the
> > > international convention?
I've only been to one, and it was a nice experience. Our district
conferences are certainly worthwhile, but there are some districts
where the conferences are considerably smaller. It seems those are the
districts that will most suffer from this.
Barbara (or Dawn, or anyone else) = is this a decision that TI can
just impose, or is it the kind of decision that would require a
membership vote? I suspect the former, if they're planning to make the
decision in time to impact 2010 conferences. It will represent a weak
demonstration of communication and leadership if they do not let the
membership have a say in this.
Barbara and anyone else who's helped organize such a conference - what
is the typical cost of a region conference? And moreover, how much,
other than travel for district officers and contestants, is paid by
TI?
There are those that are 'really into Toastmasters', but there are also the 'local crowd', which can often mean a brand new TM gets a chance to see a higher/broader level of the organization they are in. I saw this at international as well, meeting volunteers who'd been TM's for only a month or so helping out and seeing the world vision of TM close up. Regions can give each district a real membership and exposure boost, if put on and promoted in such a way as to do so.
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Jeff <sas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> By definition, people who attend the district and regional conferences > are really-into-Toastmasters. Doing away with the regional conferences > seems like a great way to alienate many of the organization's biggest > cheerleaders.
> Of course, I have never attended a regional conference so I am just > speculating.
> Thanks, > Jeff
> On Sep 6, 4:41 pm, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > What a mistake to do away with Regions. It would move TM community > > further away. Generally, Region conferences are much better for > > workshops, you get to see a really good contest, and networking > > opportunities abound. All that and they are at least fairly close by. > > Region conferences are big enough and draw froma wide enough area to > > meet new different people. They are also less harried so one can > > actually meet and talk with many of the presenters and others. Bring > > the Region concept to the world don't eliminate it in North America.
> > In most large organizations the rank and file do NOT really identify > > with the headquarters. It is best to keep community face-to-face > > events down lower. Leaping from District to International means one > > will have to be quite well off do anything above one's district.
> > > Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be > keeping > > > us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what > > > Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is > running > > > out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked > at > > > least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not > so > > > much.
> > > Barbara
> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> > > > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:05 PM > > > Subject: Region conferences?
> > > > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes > > > > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it, > > > > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the > > > > international convention?
I think you're absolutely correct. You'll rarely see a real newbie at Regional unless they live in the area, or were brought by someone else.
As was mentioned before, newcomers do go to District conferences...but they are unlikely to step from a conference located within a short driving distance of home to Australia...or even Vegas....in one fell swoop.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff" <sas...@gmail.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Region conferences?
By definition, people who attend the district and regional conferences are really-into-Toastmasters. Doing away with the regional conferences seems like a great way to alienate many of the organization's biggest cheerleaders.
Of course, I have never attended a regional conference so I am just speculating.
Thanks, Jeff
On Sep 6, 4:41 pm, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What a mistake to do away with Regions. It would move TM community > further away. Generally, Region conferences are much better for > workshops, you get to see a really good contest, and networking > opportunities abound. All that and they are at least fairly close by. > Region conferences are big enough and draw froma wide enough area to > meet new different people. They are also less harried so one can > actually meet and talk with many of the presenters and others. Bring > the Region concept to the world don't eliminate it in North America.
> In most large organizations the rank and file do NOT really identify > with the headquarters. It is best to keep community face-to-face > events down lower. Leaping from District to International means one > will have to be quite well off do anything above one's district.
> On Sep 5, 10:24 pm, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote:
> > Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be > > keeping > > us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what > > Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is > > running > > out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked > > at > > least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not > > so > > much.
I love the Regional Humorous Showcase, and the Regional Int'l Speech Contest. I get to see the best each District has to offer. I've been to some really good workshops, and met some great people...at a fraction of the cost of Int'l.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Erwine" <erwin...@yahoo.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: Re: Region conferences?
What a mistake to do away with Regions. It would move TM community further away. Generally, Region conferences are much better for workshops, you get to see a really good contest, and networking opportunities abound. All that and they are at least fairly close by. Region conferences are big enough and draw froma wide enough area to meet new different people. They are also less harried so one can actually meet and talk with many of the presenters and others. Bring the Region concept to the world don't eliminate it in North America.
In most large organizations the rank and file do NOT really identify with the headquarters. It is best to keep community face-to-face events down lower. Leaping from District to International means one will have to be quite well off do anything above one's district.
On Sep 5, 10:24 pm, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote: > Dawn will probably jump in as well, but basically, they seem to be keeping > us at arm's length because they haven't made a decision yet about what > Regionals are supposed to be, if anything. Unfortunately, time is running > out since most hotels who can hold a crowd that large need to be booked at > least 18 months out. If it's just for top 3 training and a contest, not so > much.
> Barbara
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:05 PM > Subject: Region conferences?
> > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes > > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it, > > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the > > international convention?
I happen to have the figures from the Region V conference right here. I won't post the details, since I don't want anyone on the committee to feel like I'm throwing their books open to nitpicking on the Internet.
They did make 14% profit, half of which was from a silent auction...so really only about 7% was actual profit from the gathering.
The Top 3 travel, Top 3 meeting rooms, Int'l Director travel, contestant expenses, and Int'l reps (3rd Vice-President and one wonderful staff member) and hotel are not included, so those things must come out of the TI budget.
I suspect they will ask the Top 3. My experience is that when they ask something of this magnitude, they've already made up their mind, and just want to see what the objections will be so that they can think of answers for them.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> I've only been to one, and it was a nice experience. Our district > conferences are certainly worthwhile, but there are some districts > where the conferences are considerably smaller. It seems those are the > districts that will most suffer from this.
> Barbara (or Dawn, or anyone else) = is this a decision that TI can > just impose, or is it the kind of decision that would require a > membership vote? I suspect the former, if they're planning to make the > decision in time to impact 2010 conferences. It will represent a weak > demonstration of communication and leadership if they do not let the > membership have a say in this.
> Barbara and anyone else who's helped organize such a conference - what > is the typical cost of a region conference? And moreover, how much, > other than travel for district officers and contestants, is paid by > TI?
So if our top 3 are figureheads in the decision-making, or have been brainwashed, as was suggested to me by more than a few folks in Calgary (which I find tough to fathom, knowing the Pat, Gary, and Michael as I have for several years, Jana not so much, but she's been around long enough to know better) - should we then direct an email campaign to Dan Rex? Or should I hold his nephew hostage (he's a member of one of my clubs)? Rich.
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Barbara Kryvko <barbara...@charter.net>wrote:
> I happen to have the figures from the Region V conference right here. I > won't post the details, since I don't want anyone on the committee to feel > like I'm throwing their books open to nitpicking on the Internet.
> They did make 14% profit, half of which was from a silent auction...so > really only about 7% was actual profit from the gathering.
> The Top 3 travel, Top 3 meeting rooms, Int'l Director travel, contestant > expenses, and Int'l reps (3rd Vice-President and one wonderful staff > member) > and hotel are not included, so those things must come out of the TI budget.
> I suspect they will ask the Top 3. My experience is that when they ask > something of this magnitude, they've already made up their mind, and just > want to see what the objections will be so that they can think of answers > for them.
> Barbara
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > I've only been to one, and it was a nice experience. Our district > > conferences are certainly worthwhile, but there are some districts > > where the conferences are considerably smaller. It seems those are the > > districts that will most suffer from this.
> > Barbara (or Dawn, or anyone else) = is this a decision that TI can > > just impose, or is it the kind of decision that would require a > > membership vote? I suspect the former, if they're planning to make the > > decision in time to impact 2010 conferences. It will represent a weak > > demonstration of communication and leadership if they do not let the > > membership have a say in this.
> > Barbara and anyone else who's helped organize such a conference - what > > is the typical cost of a region conference? And moreover, how much, > > other than travel for district officers and contestants, is paid by > > TI?
Oh, and having the contest at International would preclude many people
from seeing their regional contest. Many people from the districts
travel to see club mates and local friends compete. Not to mention non-
TM family and friends.
On Sep 6, 6:34 pm, "Rich Hopkins" <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if our top 3 are figureheads in the decision-making, or have been
> brainwashed, as was suggested to me by more than a few folks in Calgary
> (which I find tough to fathom, knowing the Pat, Gary, and Michael as I have
> for several years, Jana not so much, but she's been around long enough to
> know better) - should we then direct an email campaign to Dan Rex? Or should
> I hold his nephew hostage (he's a member of one of my clubs)?
> Rich.
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Barbara Kryvko <barbara...@charter.net>wrote:
> > Colin,
> > I happen to have the figures from the Region V conference right here. I
> > won't post the details, since I don't want anyone on the committee to feel
> > like I'm throwing their books open to nitpicking on the Internet.
> > They did make 14% profit, half of which was from a silent auction...so
> > really only about 7% was actual profit from the gathering.
> > The Top 3 travel, Top 3 meeting rooms, Int'l Director travel, contestant
> > expenses, and Int'l reps (3rd Vice-President and one wonderful staff
> > member)
> > and hotel are not included, so those things must come out of the TI budget.
> > I suspect they will ask the Top 3. My experience is that when they ask
> > something of this magnitude, they've already made up their mind, and just
> > want to see what the objections will be so that they can think of answers
> > for them.
> > Barbara
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com>
> > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > > I've only been to one, and it was a nice experience. Our district
> > > conferences are certainly worthwhile, but there are some districts
> > > where the conferences are considerably smaller. It seems those are the
> > > districts that will most suffer from this.
> > > Barbara (or Dawn, or anyone else) = is this a decision that TI can
> > > just impose, or is it the kind of decision that would require a
> > > membership vote? I suspect the former, if they're planning to make the
> > > decision in time to impact 2010 conferences. It will represent a weak
> > > demonstration of communication and leadership if they do not let the
> > > membership have a say in this.
> > > Barbara and anyone else who's helped organize such a conference - what
> > > is the typical cost of a region conference? And moreover, how much,
> > > other than travel for district officers and contestants, is paid by
> > > TI?
I don't have much problem with the proposed contest change - it would put everyone on equal footing - not that Loghan needed that this year. The contest is a small part of the overall function, even if it is the most widely publicized event - though maybe only by we contestants ;-)
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oh, and having the contest at International would preclude many people > from seeing their regional contest. Many people from the districts > travel to see club mates and local friends compete. Not to mention non- > TM family and friends.
> On Sep 6, 6:34 pm, "Rich Hopkins" <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So if our top 3 are figureheads in the decision-making, or have been > > brainwashed, as was suggested to me by more than a few folks in Calgary > > (which I find tough to fathom, knowing the Pat, Gary, and Michael as I > have > > for several years, Jana not so much, but she's been around long enough to > > know better) - should we then direct an email campaign to Dan Rex? Or > should > > I hold his nephew hostage (he's a member of one of my clubs)? > > Rich.
> > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Barbara Kryvko <barbara...@charter.net > >wrote:
> > > Colin,
> > > I happen to have the figures from the Region V conference right here. I > > > won't post the details, since I don't want anyone on the committee to > feel > > > like I'm throwing their books open to nitpicking on the Internet.
> > > They did make 14% profit, half of which was from a silent auction...so > > > really only about 7% was actual profit from the gathering.
> > > The Top 3 travel, Top 3 meeting rooms, Int'l Director travel, > contestant > > > expenses, and Int'l reps (3rd Vice-President and one wonderful staff > > > member) > > > and hotel are not included, so those things must come out of the TI > budget.
> > > I suspect they will ask the Top 3. My experience is that when they ask > > > something of this magnitude, they've already made up their mind, and > just > > > want to see what the objections will be so that they can think of > answers > > > for them.
> > > Barbara
> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> > > > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > > > I've only been to one, and it was a nice experience. Our district > > > > conferences are certainly worthwhile, but there are some districts > > > > where the conferences are considerably smaller. It seems those are > the > > > > districts that will most suffer from this.
> > > > Barbara (or Dawn, or anyone else) = is this a decision that TI can > > > > just impose, or is it the kind of decision that would require a > > > > membership vote? I suspect the former, if they're planning to make > the > > > > decision in time to impact 2010 conferences. It will represent a weak > > > > demonstration of communication and leadership if they do not let the > > > > membership have a say in this.
> > > > Barbara and anyone else who's helped organize such a conference - > what > > > > is the typical cost of a region conference? And moreover, how much, > > > > other than travel for district officers and contestants, is paid by > > > > TI?
Yes, this seems to be a poor idea. A contestant would have to commit
to a lot of travel and commitment after winning their district
contest, with the odds against them for winning their interdistrict or
whatever it is called. Would a contestant have to have a new speech
just a few days later for the World if they were fortunate or
unfortunate enough to win? Here is a question for Rich and Colin:
would you have paid your own way to Calgary to compete in a "regional"
type contest?
On Sep 5, 8:05 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes
> regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it,
> and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the
> international convention?
For contestants it has interesting consequences. It would cost LESS to travel to one place vs. two. Since TI pays travel and one night stay, Technically, we could do it for little out of pocket for the first round. And, they may increase the reimbursement for the winners competing Sat. So that is a GOOD thing.
It also means that all 10 contestants would be on equal footing, whereas the 2 Int'l contestants have just a few days between contests, with 2 different speeches. Interesting note - Int'l contestants didn't used to have to change speeches from Tues to Sat, but actually proposed the change themselves to create more equal footing (3 speeches vs. 3 speeches, instead of 3 vs.2). The inter-district used to only allow judges and inter-district personnel into the contests to protect the speeches for that Sat.
Who it hurts most are the audiences. For the 8 US contestants, it takes their 7-8 week process on one speech and transforms it into a 2 speech process. But still - it creates a true level playing field.
This is why the contest aspect isn't a good argument for keeping Regions. Its the networking, socializing, and opportunities to lead that will disappear. Think about all the leadership opportunities disappearing from 8 region conferences, from organizers to speakers to volunteers.
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Champ <WCPS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, this seems to be a poor idea. A contestant would have to commit > to a lot of travel and commitment after winning their district > contest, with the odds against them for winning their interdistrict or > whatever it is called. Would a contestant have to have a new speech > just a few days later for the World if they were fortunate or > unfortunate enough to win? Here is a question for Rich and Colin: > would you have paid your own way to Calgary to compete in a "regional" > type contest?
> On Sep 5, 8:05 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes > > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it, > > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the > > international convention?
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Rich Hopkins <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote: > For contestants it has interesting consequences. > It would cost LESS to travel to one place vs. two. Since TI pays travel and > one night stay, Technically, we could do it for little out of pocket for the > first round. And, they may increase the reimbursement for the winners > competing Sat. So that is a GOOD thing.
> It also means that all 10 contestants would be on equal footing, whereas > the 2 Int'l contestants have just a few days between contests, with 2 > different speeches. Interesting note - Int'l contestants didn't used to have > to change speeches from Tues to Sat, but actually proposed the change > themselves to create more equal footing (3 speeches vs. 3 speeches, instead > of 3 vs.2). The inter-district used to only allow judges and inter-district > personnel into the contests to protect the speeches for that Sat.
> Who it hurts most are the audiences. For the 8 US contestants, it takes > their 7-8 week process on one speech and transforms it into a 2 speech > process. But still - it creates a true level playing field.
> This is why the contest aspect isn't a good argument for keeping Regions. > Its the networking, socializing, and opportunities to lead that will > disappear. Think about all the leadership opportunities disappearing from 8 > region conferences, from organizers to speakers to volunteers.
> What will replace those learning opportunities?
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Champ <WCPS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, this seems to be a poor idea. A contestant would have to commit >> to a lot of travel and commitment after winning their district >> contest, with the odds against them for winning their interdistrict or >> whatever it is called. Would a contestant have to have a new speech >> just a few days later for the World if they were fortunate or >> unfortunate enough to win? Here is a question for Rich and Colin: >> would you have paid your own way to Calgary to compete in a "regional" >> type contest?
>> On Sep 5, 8:05 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I seem to recall Dawn or Barbara discussing some proposed changes >> > regarding region conferences. I didn't hear anything more about it, >> > and so I was wondering if you'd learned anything more at the >> > international convention?
Thanks, Barbara. I guess I'm not clearly understanding where TI will
save money with this. right now, for instance, they pay for contestant
travel flight or mileage to region, and don't pay for their hotel.
Under the new scenario they'd have to fly all region contestants to
the international convention and, I presume, pay for several nights of
hotel for each. It'd seem more expensive to also fly top three
officers to international. Seems like that'd be a huge expense.
I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for
everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a
possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit
to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted
flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter
is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be
most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck
paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they
needed to schedule several days just in case.
So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to
reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/
Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on
my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI
reimbursements.
But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this
way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd
have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if
you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a
few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people
competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance,
this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests
conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott)
both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's
the way it is for them.
So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it
doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and
networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to
consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged,
participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by
removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will
lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they
may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial
implications.
Well said Colin. What is it 8 regions times what 8 contestants thats
64 contestants flights, hotel, etc. & yes it would need to be for the
week and if you can't be there for that long a time you are out and #
2 is in. Oh, my. I know there is a push to the international but
logistics are a part of the current structure. A better solution is to
make new international regions when there is a large enough
concentration of Toastmasters in a (relatively) small enough
geographic area to make that structure feasible. Yes, that means that
(at present) 2 contestants have a more difficult problem at
International but it is not an insurmountable problem. The situation
derives in large part from the organization's history but also, in
part from the demographics of english speaking people (who are also in
Toastmasters) worldwide.
On Sep 7, 10:35 am, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for
> everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a
> possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit
> to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted
> flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter
> is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be
> most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck
> paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they
> needed to schedule several days just in case.
> So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to
> reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/
> Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on
> my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI
> reimbursements.
> But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this
> way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd
> have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if
> you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a
> few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people
> competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance,
> this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests
> conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott)
> both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's
> the way it is for them.
> So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it
> doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and
> networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to
> consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged,
> participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by
> removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will
> lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they
> may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial
> implications.
Oh, I don't know how much it would cost to fly the 6 to 8 contestants
(and not all would need flights if the International is in their
region) and put them up for a week in the convention hotel but it
might rival the cost of a regional conference.
On Sep 7, 11:04 am, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well said Colin. What is it 8 regions times what 8 contestants thats
> 64 contestants flights, hotel, etc. & yes it would need to be for the
> week and if you can't be there for that long a time you are out and #
> 2 is in. Oh, my. I know there is a push to the international but
> logistics are a part of the current structure. A better solution is to
> make new international regions when there is a large enough
> concentration of Toastmasters in a (relatively) small enough
> geographic area to make that structure feasible. Yes, that means that
> (at present) 2 contestants have a more difficult problem at
> International but it is not an insurmountable problem. The situation
> derives in large part from the organization's history but also, in
> part from the demographics of english speaking people (who are also in
> Toastmasters) worldwide.
> On Sep 7, 10:35 am, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for
> > everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a
> > possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit
> > to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted
> > flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter
> > is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be
> > most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck
> > paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they
> > needed to schedule several days just in case.
> > So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to
> > reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/
> > Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on
> > my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI
> > reimbursements.
> > But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this
> > way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd
> > have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if
> > you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> > Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a
> > few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people
> > competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance,
> > this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests
> > conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott)
> > both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's
> > the way it is for them.
> > So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it
> > doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and
> > networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to
> > consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged,
> > participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by
> > removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will
> > lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they
> > may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial
> > implications.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> Thanks, Barbara. I guess I'm not clearly understanding where TI will > save money with this. right now, for instance, they pay for contestant > travel flight or mileage to region, and don't pay for their hotel. > Under the new scenario they'd have to fly all region contestants to > the international convention and, I presume, pay for several nights of > hotel for each. It'd seem more expensive to also fly top three > officers to international. Seems like that'd be a huge expense.
The wrench in this whole thing is that under the new governance, there would no longer be "DNARs," as every District would have a Region. I'm on the outside looking in, but it seems more logical to have all of the new Regions have Regionals at the same time as every current region already has theirs.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for > everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a > possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit > to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted > flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter > is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be > most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck > paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they > needed to schedule several days just in case.
> So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to > reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/ > Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on > my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI > reimbursements.
> But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this > way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd > have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if > you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a > few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people > competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance, > this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests > conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott) > both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's > the way it is for them.
> So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it > doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and > networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to > consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged, > participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by > removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will > lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they > may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial > implications.
That's interesting. It really sounds like they are juggling a lot of
different potential changes at once, and doing it with very little
feedback during the planning stages. Which likely leads to a strong
possibility of groupthink among those making the decision, and
groupthink is never a good thing in matters like this.
Colin
On Sep 7, 11:58 am, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote:
> The wrench in this whole thing is that under the new governance, there would
> no longer be "DNARs," as every District would have a Region. I'm on the
> outside looking in, but it seems more logical to have all of the new Regions
> have Regionals at the same time as every current region already has theirs.
> Barbara
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com>
> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for
> > everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a
> > possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit
> > to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted
> > flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter
> > is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be
> > most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck
> > paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they
> > needed to schedule several days just in case.
> > So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to
> > reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/
> > Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on
> > my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI
> > reimbursements.
> > But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this
> > way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd
> > have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if
> > you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> > Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a
> > few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people
> > competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance,
> > this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests
> > conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott)
> > both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's
> > the way it is for them.
> > So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it
> > doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and
> > networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to
> > consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged,
> > participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by
> > removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will
> > lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they
> > may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial
> > implications.
I would think so. Although I know that these new regions would be
incredibly large. Perhaps this was rushed into before there were
enough toastmasters outside North America concentrated in a small
enough area to really support a Region. Again, I don't know either.
Anybody out there with the real, true skinny?
On Sep 7, 11:58 am, "Barbara Kryvko" <barbara...@charter.net> wrote:
> The wrench in this whole thing is that under the new governance, there would
> no longer be "DNARs," as every District would have a Region. I'm on the
> outside looking in, but it seems more logical to have all of the new Regions
> have Regionals at the same time as every current region already has theirs.
> Barbara
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com>
> To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for
> > everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a
> > possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit
> > to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted
> > flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter
> > is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be
> > most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck
> > paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they
> > needed to schedule several days just in case.
> > So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to
> > reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/
> > Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on
> > my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI
> > reimbursements.
> > But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this
> > way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd
> > have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if
> > you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> > Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a
> > few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people
> > competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance,
> > this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests
> > conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott)
> > both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's
> > the way it is for them.
> > So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it
> > doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and
> > networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to
> > consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged,
> > participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by
> > removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will
> > lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they
> > may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial
> > implications.
As much as I like contests, and as much as I would love to be on the WCPS stage next year, I do think we need to keep the contests in perspective.
Toastmasters International doesn't exist to conduct the International Speech Contest. We exist to support individual members to improve their personal speaking and leadership skills. A minority of members compete at the club level, and the percentage drops rapidly at each level beyond that. Toastmasters International needs to be organized to support the mission for all the members, not just those of us who are crazy about the contests.
I'm willing to see how the new hierarchy supports the larger mission, and then figure out how to make the contests work within that structure.
On 9/7/08, Michael Erwine <erwin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would think so. Although I know that these new regions would be > incredibly large. Perhaps this was rushed into before there were > enough toastmasters outside North America concentrated in a small > enough area to really support a Region. Again, I don't know either. > Anybody out there with the real, true skinny?
> > The wrench in this whole thing is that under the new governance, there > would > > no longer be "DNARs," as every District would have a Region. I'm on the > > outside looking in, but it seems more logical to have all of the new > Regions > > have Regionals at the same time as every current region already has > theirs.
> > Barbara
> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Colin" <colin.will...@gmail.com> > > To: "ToastmastersPrime" <toastmastersprime@googlegroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:35 AM > > Subject: Re: Region conferences?
> > > I would presume they'd have to increase the reimbursement for > > > everyone. I mean, if you are flown in to compete on a Tuesday, with a > > > possibility of also competing Saturday, then you have to either commit > > > to a several-day trip, or pay the sky-high price of a nonrestricted > > > flight for which you could easily change your return date. The latter > > > is really not feasible in these days of full flights, and it would be > > > most uncool if the people who lost at the region level were then stuck > > > paying for their own hotel for the rest of the week because they > > > needed to schedule several days just in case.
> > > So it seems to me that for each region contestant they'd need to > > > reimburse both a long-distance flight and four nights (Tue/Wed/Thus/ > > > Fri) hotel. Which has to be a dramatic increase. As I do the math on > > > my own competition it'd have been a 15% increase in TI > > > reimbursements.
> > > But, as Rich notes, it's financially better for the contestants this > > > way - puts everyone on an even footing with the DNAR people, plus it'd > > > have covered more of my Calgary hotel costs. The downside is that if > > > you can't take a whole week off work in August, you're outa luck.
> > > Champ - yes, people would have to have a brand new speech for just a > > > few days later; however, this has always been the case for the people > > > competing from districts not assigned to regions. So, for instance, > > > this year on the Tuesday before the final, there were two contests > > > conducted for DNARs, and those two winners (Loghandran and Elliott) > > > both then had to deliver a different speech four days later. That's > > > the way it is for them.
> > > So I return to the point Rich and others make - as a contestant it > > > doesn't bother me, but having now seen the level of interaction and > > > networking and education at a region conference, i think they have to > > > consider the serious implications of this. These are the most engaged, > > > participatory TMs in the organization, and if you distance them by > > > removing these opportunities, it only stands to reason that some will > > > lose interest or disengage. What they gain in financial capital they > > > may more than lose in social capital, and that may then have financial > > > implications.
|
