We are introducing a new role at our meetings. The Leadership
Master! This person is assigned for each meeting and is responsible
for coordinating the written evaluations for the Competent Leadership
manual.
We are hoping that this focus will bring new and seasoned members
together in placing a new focus on the Competent Leadership manual.
We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
as a success, etc?
Hi John,
I love this idea! In my role as club VPE I've tried to manage this
whole process myself. But (1) it takes enough effort that I'm unable
to participate in other ways and (2) the book is simply not getting
traction. Perhaps by spreading this around you'll have greater
success. Please let us know how this goes!
Good luck,
Robert
On Feb 4, 4:14 pm, John <jgoa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are introducing a new role at our meetings. The Leadership
> Master! This person is assigned for each meeting and is responsible
> for coordinating the written evaluations for the Competent Leadership
> manual.
> We are hoping that this focus will bring new and seasoned members
> together in placing a new focus on the Competent Leadership manual.
I know of clubs who give this kind of role to the General Evaluator,
but I wonder how much success they have had? Best of luck, and please
let us know how it works. Alison
On Feb 5, 3:03 pm, RobertK <robert.kil...@mistweave.net> wrote:
> Hi John,
> I love this idea! In my role as club VPE I've tried to manage this
> whole process myself. But (1) it takes enough effort that I'm unable
> to participate in other ways and (2) the book is simply not getting
> traction. Perhaps by spreading this around you'll have greater
> success. Please let us know how this goes!
> Good luck,
> Robert
> On Feb 4, 4:14 pm, John <jgoa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Fellow Toastmasters,
> > We are introducing a new role at our meetings. The Leadership
> > Master! This person is assigned for each meeting and is responsible
> > for coordinating the written evaluations for the Competent Leadership
> > manual.
> > We are hoping that this focus will bring new and seasoned members
> > together in placing a new focus on the Competent Leadership manual.
From what I've heard - it has not been a tremendous success - but more
because it was not properly rolled out and marketed.
Spending the extra money to get a manual is no fun for longtime TM'ers
- but we're the ones who have to explain in to new folk. Makes no
sense, really.
I'm starting to go through it again, now that I have another new one
(last one was lost in the car thievery incident). I think its actually
a pretty good program, if a bit repetitive. It does require some
actual effort to complete towards the end.
Without proper marketing and education, however, it will continue to
struggle.
Rich.
On Feb 4, 6:47 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
> I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
> as a success, etc?
I'm not sure marketing and education are the problems.
The question of how being a Timer leads to leadership is non-trivial. Plus, the in-club opportunities to complete some of the latter requirements are low.
I'd rather see something with some real substance to it. Perhaps a "lite" version of the HPL.
On 2/5/08, rich.hopk...@gmail.com <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From what I've heard - it has not been a tremendous success - but more > because it was not properly rolled out and marketed.
> Spending the extra money to get a manual is no fun for longtime TM'ers > - but we're the ones who have to explain in to new folk. Makes no > sense, really.
> I'm starting to go through it again, now that I have another new one > (last one was lost in the car thievery incident). I think its actually > a pretty good program, if a bit repetitive. It does require some > actual effort to complete towards the end.
> Without proper marketing and education, however, it will continue to > struggle.
> Rich.
> On Feb 4, 6:47 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote: > > We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more? > > I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it > > as a success, etc?
I would think that is the plan for the oft-rumored Advanced Leader
Manuals.
Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening
and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the
applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent
the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave
them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was
so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to
grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the
day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the
box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has
become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
Rich.
On Feb 5, 9:53 am, "Mark Perew" <mpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure marketing and education are the problems.
> The question of how being a Timer leads to leadership is non-trivial.
> Plus, the in-club opportunities to complete some of the latter
> requirements are low.
> I'd rather see something with some real substance to it. Perhaps a
> "lite" version of the HPL.
> On 2/5/08, rich.hopk...@gmail.com <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > From what I've heard - it has not been a tremendous success - but more
> > because it was not properly rolled out and marketed.
> > Spending the extra money to get a manual is no fun for longtime TM'ers
> > - but we're the ones who have to explain in to new folk. Makes no
> > sense, really.
> > I'm starting to go through it again, now that I have another new one
> > (last one was lost in the car thievery incident). I think its actually
> > a pretty good program, if a bit repetitive. It does require some
> > actual effort to complete towards the end.
> > Without proper marketing and education, however, it will continue to
> > struggle.
> > Rich.
> > On Feb 4, 6:47 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
> > > I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
> > > as a success, etc?
HI John
My club has the same role, but it is rarely ever used. We did it to
make sure everyone who wanted a CL evaluation got it and the person in
said position could pay attention to the meeting and give a good
evaluation. We don't allow that person to do any other role. As I
noted, the role is rarely used. I think we have filled it three times
and the person who filled it was one of the people who decided to
establish it. We are also having a difficult time getting members
moving on the CL manual. I think once we get people using the manual
then the role will be taken more often.
Sara
On Feb 4, 7:14 pm, John <jgoa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are introducing a new role at our meetings. The Leadership
> Master! This person is assigned for each meeting and is responsible
> for coordinating the written evaluations for the Competent Leadership
> manual.
> We are hoping that this focus will bring new and seasoned members
> together in placing a new focus on the Competent Leadership manual.
I suspect a lot of the problem is the accounting. This thing just
looks kind of overwhelming. I'd rather focus on fewer things of
substance than the accounting of a large amount of minutia.
This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club, the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut up and sit down".
There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like not a bad compromise.
>I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it doesn't always happen.
By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
Cheers, Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
On Feb 4, 5:47 pm, Colin <colin.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
> I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
> as a success, etc?
Very few people in my home club have been using it, so our VP-E
started something new. Each meeting has a theme that is directly
related to one of the projects in the manual. The Toastmaster or
another member will speak on the theme. The club is buying leadership
manuals for members who don't have them. This whole project just
started a couple of weeks before I got sick, and I've missed the last
two meetings, so I don't know how successful it is.
> We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
> I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
> as a success, etc?
I don't know about TI, but my observation is that it's a complete
dud.
Last year, when I was area governor and regularly visiting a number of
clubs, I noticed about half my clubs gave it a shot. People brought
manuals for a few meetings--but they were doing it for the DCP
points.
You want to know what most people really think? IThis manual is a
nuisance, and after a few meetings even the people who are good sports
stop bothering with it. Nobody reads the comments after the manual is
handed back. Nobody feels they have become better leaders as a result
of completing this manual. It was a nice idea--but sometimes nice
ideas just don't work out well.
I've watched a few clubs try having "leadership masters" in a variety
of ways--this doesn't seem to last more than a few meetings, either.
But that's just my observation--things may be different in other
places.
I took you up on the Timer/Leadership challenge. I served as Timer
yesterday, and was evaluated in the CL manual. As timer, I made sure
the times were known in advance, meaning no one had to ask, or
interrupt the speaker before they started for the time requirements
(this happens a lot in clubs with newer members). I also provided
exact times, as opposed to a pass/fail response in terms of
qualification. In addition I fully explained why we time, and the
method by which we time - crucial for new members and visitors.
How did I lead?
A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers
B. I informed new members and guests
C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers
D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
And I bet you all could still give me ideas on how to do it better.
But leadership, definitely. The fact that it is minor is directly
shown by this role only showing up once in the entire CL manual (under
Time Management, a definite leadership quality).
I know people don't like the CL manual. But I do believe there is
value there - something I didn't believe until I read through it and
started doing it whole-heartedly.
Rich.
On Feb 5, 11:37 am, Ken Butler <k...@swiss-soccer.net> wrote:
> This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really
> is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
> >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening
> >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the
> >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent
> >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
> I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no
> doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club,
> the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions
> explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy
> for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut
> up and sit down".
> There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it
> came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't
> have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a
> 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic
> gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I
> would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've
> seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the
> 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like
> not a bad compromise.
> >I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave
> >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was
> >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to
> >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the
> >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the
> >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has
> >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
> You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it
> doesn't always happen.
> By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was
> often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL
> projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech
> evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
> Cheers,
> Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of
> (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
Well it's interesting to me that you see it as a challenge. In the
meetings I attend all you did is the norm. Maybe it's just my
district, but I've never been to a meeting where the times were given
as just pass/fail. My overall belief is that a Timer is a job assigned
by a leader but done by a worker. A leader definitely needs the
experience of all the jobs, and thus it may well be appropriate that
they are all listed in the leadership manual, but if I had to draw a
line I'd say a job that involves "leadership" is probably more than
that a timer or ah counter provides. It's pretty much all semantics. I
expect you were exibiting leadership qualities when you did the job of
timer, but that doesn't mean you were leading anyone. :-)
Larry Lands DTM PDG
Finalist 2001 World Championship
On Feb 6, 1:46 pm, "rich.hopk...@gmail.com" <rich.hopk...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I took you up on the Timer/Leadership challenge. I served as Timer
> yesterday, and was evaluated in the CL manual. As timer, I made sure
> the times were known in advance, meaning no one had to ask, or
> interrupt the speaker before they started for the time requirements
> (this happens a lot in clubs with newer members). I also provided
> exact times, as opposed to a pass/fail response in terms of
> qualification. In addition I fully explained why we time, and the
> method by which we time - crucial for new members and visitors.
> How did I lead?
> A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers
> B. I informed new members and guests
> C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers
> D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
> And I bet you all could still give me ideas on how to do it better.
> But leadership, definitely. The fact that it is minor is directly
> shown by this role only showing up once in the entire CL manual (under
> Time Management, a definite leadership quality).
> I know people don't like the CL manual. But I do believe there is
> value there - something I didn't believe until I read through it and
> started doing it whole-heartedly.
> Rich.
> On Feb 5, 11:37 am, Ken Butler <k...@swiss-soccer.net> wrote:
> > This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really
> > is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
> > On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
> > >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening
> > >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the
> > >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent
> > >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
> > I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no
> > doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club,
> > the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions
> > explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy
> > for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut
> > up and sit down".
> > There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it
> > came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't
> > have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a
> > 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic
> > gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I
> > would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've
> > seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the
> > 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like
> > not a bad compromise.
> > >I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave
> > >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was
> > >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to
> > >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the
> > >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the
> > >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has
> > >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
> > You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it
> > doesn't always happen.
> > By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was
> > often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL
> > projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech
> > evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
> > Cheers,
> > Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of
> > (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
> > --
> > Ken Butler
> > Brampton, Ontario, Canada- Hide quoted text -
I wish I could visit some bigger districts for awhile. Except for my
main club, a 50+ year group, my clubs all tend to be fairly new,
filled with inexperienced, barely trained Toastmasters - therefore
when I take a role, I'm always trying to do the job as by the book as
possible, to if nothing else, Lead By Example.
Plus, people now tend to look to me (as they do to you) for the expert
opinion and method on how to do things - which keeps me on my toes.
Rich.
On Feb 7, 2:56 pm, Larry_in_Honolulu <la...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> Well it's interesting to me that you see it as a challenge. In the
> meetings I attend all you did is the norm. Maybe it's just my
> district, but I've never been to a meeting where the times were given
> as just pass/fail. My overall belief is that a Timer is a job assigned
> by a leader but done by a worker. A leader definitely needs the
> experience of all the jobs, and thus it may well be appropriate that
> they are all listed in the leadership manual, but if I had to draw a
> line I'd say a job that involves "leadership" is probably more than
> that a timer or ah counter provides. It's pretty much all semantics. I
> expect you were exibiting leadership qualities when you did the job of
> timer, but that doesn't mean you were leading anyone. :-)
> Larry Lands DTM PDG
> Finalist 2001 World Championship
> On Feb 6, 1:46 pm, "rich.hopk...@gmail.com" <rich.hopk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I took you up on the Timer/Leadership challenge. I served as Timer
> > yesterday, and was evaluated in the CL manual. As timer, I made sure
> > the times were known in advance, meaning no one had to ask, or
> > interrupt the speaker before they started for the time requirements
> > (this happens a lot in clubs with newer members). I also provided
> > exact times, as opposed to a pass/fail response in terms of
> > qualification. In addition I fully explained why we time, and the
> > method by which we time - crucial for new members and visitors.
> > How did I lead?
> > A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers
> > B. I informed new members and guests
> > C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers
> > D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
> > And I bet you all could still give me ideas on how to do it better.
> > But leadership, definitely. The fact that it is minor is directly
> > shown by this role only showing up once in the entire CL manual (under
> > Time Management, a definite leadership quality).
> > I know people don't like the CL manual. But I do believe there is
> > value there - something I didn't believe until I read through it and
> > started doing it whole-heartedly.
> > Rich.
> > On Feb 5, 11:37 am, Ken Butler <k...@swiss-soccer.net> wrote:
> > > This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really
> > > is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
> > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
> > > >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening
> > > >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the
> > > >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent
> > > >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
> > > I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no
> > > doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club,
> > > the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions
> > > explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy
> > > for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut
> > > up and sit down".
> > > There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it
> > > came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't
> > > have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a
> > > 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic
> > > gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I
> > > would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've
> > > seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the
> > > 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like
> > > not a bad compromise.
> > > >I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave
> > > >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was
> > > >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to
> > > >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the
> > > >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the
> > > >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has
> > > >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
> > > You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it
> > > doesn't always happen.
> > > By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was
> > > often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL
> > > projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech
> > > evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of
> > > (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
> > > --
> > > Ken Butler
> > > Brampton, Ontario, Canada- Hide quoted text -
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:46:03 -0800 (PST), Rich wrote (re: timekeeping)
>How did I lead?
>A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers >B. I informed new members and guests >C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers >D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
(c) and (d) I can see, but not (a) and (b). I guess it depends on how a club defines the Timekeeper role. At my club, the timekeeper times Table Topics, the speeches and the evaluations, and gives a "report" after the evaluations (but before the GE's report). This usually consists of a summary of the Table Topics times and exact times for the speakers and evaluators. It's up to the Table Topic Master/Toastmaster/GE to give out the target times beforehand, if they remember. Sometimes (I tried to institute this) the Toastmaster calls on the speech evaluator to read out the speech objectives, including the time. The timekeeper doesn't have anything else to say. Maybe your club is different, or you did some work before the meeting.
At my first club, *everything* was timed, and when time was up, the timekeeper would let out a sharp BUZZ from the timing box. You quickly learned to tell your joke in less than the 60 seconds you were allowed!
Cheers, Ken. -- Ken Butler Brampton, Ontario, Canada
> I took you up on the Timer/Leadership challenge. I served as Timer > yesterday, and was evaluated in the CL manual. As timer, I made sure > the times were known in advance, meaning no one had to ask, or > interrupt the speaker before they started for the time requirements > (this happens a lot in clubs with newer members). I also provided > exact times, as opposed to a pass/fail response in terms of > qualification. In addition I fully explained why we time, and the > method by which we time - crucial for new members and visitors.
> How did I lead?
> A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers > B. I informed new members and guests > C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers > D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
> And I bet you all could still give me ideas on how to do it better. > But leadership, definitely. The fact that it is minor is directly > shown by this role only showing up once in the entire CL manual (under > Time Management, a definite leadership quality).
> I know people don't like the CL manual. But I do believe there is > value there - something I didn't believe until I read through it and > started doing it whole-heartedly.
> Rich.
> On Feb 5, 11:37 am, Ken Butler <k...@swiss-soccer.net> wrote: > > This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really > > is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
> > On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > > >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening > > >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the > > >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent > > >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
> > I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no > > doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club, > > the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions > > explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy > > for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut > > up and sit down".
> > There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it > > came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't > > have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a > > 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic > > gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I > > would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've > > seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the > > 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like > > not a bad compromise.
> > >I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave > > >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was > > >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to > > >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the > > >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the > > >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has > > >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
> > You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it > > doesn't always happen.
> > By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was > > often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL > > projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech > > evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
> > Cheers, > > Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of > > (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
I wanted to report back to the group on the Leadership Master role.
Our VP Ed did a speech that included an explanation of changes
to the club. Part of that was explaining the LM role. This was a
good start. She then added LM1 and LM2 to the schedule,
with assigned people every week.
It has been in place a couple of weeks and been working well.
Obviously, the test will be if it can stand the test of time.
On the discussion of whether the manual is good or not... I
personally think it comes down to whether the evaluator can
suggest an area of improvement. If they can, and they
communicate that to the person, then it is worth it. Whether
you call it leadership, or snickerdoodles, doesn't matter.
In addition to giving written feedback, I like to call out one
or two points and give them verbally after the meeting.
Even down to the "lowly" timer, I have rarely seen someone
take on any role in the CL manual and not have room for
improvement. In fact, the timer ends up being a role that
could be improved more often than not. Lots of times the
timer will raise their hand during the meeting with questions.
John.
On Feb 7, 7:52 pm, "Mark Perew" <mpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm Timer next week in one of my clubs. I'll see if I can meet this level.
> On 2/6/08, rich.hopk...@gmail.com <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I took you up on the Timer/Leadership challenge. I served as Timer
> > yesterday, and was evaluated in the CL manual. As timer, I made sure
> > the times were known in advance, meaning no one had to ask, or
> > interrupt the speaker before they started for the time requirements
> > (this happens a lot in clubs with newer members). I also provided
> > exact times, as opposed to a pass/fail response in terms of
> > qualification. In addition I fully explained why we time, and the
> > method by which we time - crucial for new members and visitors.
> > How did I lead?
> > A. I took stress off the Toastmaster and speakers
> > B. I informed new members and guests
> > C. I gave precise feedback to all timed speakers
> > D. I showed everyone else how smoothly the Timer job can be done
> > And I bet you all could still give me ideas on how to do it better.
> > But leadership, definitely. The fact that it is minor is directly
> > shown by this role only showing up once in the entire CL manual (under
> > Time Management, a definite leadership quality).
> > I know people don't like the CL manual. But I do believe there is
> > value there - something I didn't believe until I read through it and
> > started doing it whole-heartedly.
> > Rich.
> > On Feb 5, 11:37 am, Ken Butler <k...@swiss-soccer.net> wrote:
> > > This is partly a test, to convince that posting to ToastmastersPrime really
> > > is as easy as hitting the "reply" key. But there is some content below:
> > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:03:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
> > > >Being Timer can reflect leadership - it is a form of both listening
> > > >and accurate feedback. And in some clubs, I've seen timers lead the
> > > >applause once a speaker goes 30 seconds past the red light to prevent
> > > >the meeting from going over. That can be a real step-out for some.
> > > I find "leadership" as a description of this a little flimsy, but I have no
> > > doubt that the timekeeper has a useful role to perform. At my first club,
> > > the timing box came equipped with a buzzer, and the timing instructions
> > > explained at what time points it should be used. It can't have been easy
> > > for a new member to "buzz" an experienced speaker, effectively saying "shut
> > > up and sit down".
> > > There was some controversy about whether we should have a buzzer at all (it
> > > came up in the business session from time to time). My second club didn't
> > > have a buzzer at all, and then you would get the occasional person giving a
> > > 4-minute Table Topics or an 11-minute speech despite the frantic
> > > gesticulating from certain people in the audience. (When I was VP-Ed, I
> > > would tinker with the timings when certain people were on the agenda.) I've
> > > seen the timekeeper being asked to lead the applause (actually after the
> > > 2-minute speeches during the club officer elections), and that looks like
> > > not a bad compromise.
> > > >I think most of the 'lesser' roles could be a lot meatier, if we gave
> > > >them more weight, and raised our expectations beyond - "oh, gee, I was
> > > >so engrossed by the meeting I forgot to count ahs, pay attention to
> > > >grammar, start the stopwatch - and can anyone read the thought of the
> > > >day out of their daytimer, and pull the word of the day out of the
> > > >box?" What was once an emergency tactic, or occasional gaffe, has
> > > >become the norm in many clubs I have seen in the last 5 years.
> > > You could say that it's the GE's job to come down hard on this. But it
> > > doesn't always happen.
> > > By the way, I think "Leadership Master" is a great idea. As VP-Ed, I was
> > > often approached to be (or to help find) an evaluator for one of the new CL
> > > projects. One meeting I had 3 manuals open on my desk: one speech
> > > evaluation and 2 CL project evaluations. That made my head hurt.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ken. who hasn't actually made it to a meeting since the near-coincidence of
> > > (a) his #10 speech, (b) the birth of his daughter.
> > > --
> > > Ken Butler
> > > Brampton, Ontario, Canada- Hide quoted text -
I think that right now a lot of people are looking at the CL manual as
a nuisance because it's "optional" for many of us. Once July 1 comes
and it's the only way to earn a CL to be able to move up on the
leadership side, it will probably gain more acceptance. Either that,
or we'll see a lot fewer DTMs in future because people have stopped
doing the leadership things necessary to earn one. And that would be
a pity, IMO.
It would be a pity for people not to do what it would take to be a DTM because its too complicated.
It would also be a benefit for fewer people to get a DTM who have just done the bare minimum to get it in the past - there are a percentage of DTMs who slide by, watering down the quality of the DTM award. This happens at all award levels of course. Anything we can do to make each level a bit tougher to get could raise the value of our award system.
I agree with that statement Rich. And isn't that just what the CL
manual does?
You know, I'm always disappointed when I hear a DTM speak and they're
a poor speaker. It makes me wonder how they got their DTM in the
first place. But when you see/hear some of the wishy-washy
evaluations that happen all too often, either out of lack of training
or lack of caring, then I'm not necessarily surprised.
On Feb 25, 9:39 am, "Rich Hopkins" <rich.hopk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anything we can do to make each level a bit tougher to get could raise
the value of our award system.
Your message struck a chord with me. I'm the President of our club,
and here's what I'm seeing:
A few of our members are valiantly working along in the CL manual,
including myself. However, it's a struggle to get new members
interested and motivated to bring their manuals and get evaluations on
the roles they are doing.
In my opinion, there can be a lot of benefit to using the CL manual.
For instance, members have actually learned more about the role from
the printed material in the manual, and have helped educate the club
about the role. As well, I have gained some good insights from
evaluators on various roles that I performed, even after being very
familiar with the role.
However, the logistics of getting through each project are hard to
keep track of, especially relative to the simplicity of tracking CC/AC
projects. You have to do multiple roles for each CL project
(typically), and that isn't even consistent for all projects. For
instance, the mentoring project only requires one role. It takes a
lot of attention, and toward the end of the CL, we actually have to
request getting assigned certain roles in order to complete the
manual. It seems difficult for members to put that extra attention
into the CL projects.
Finally, our club doesn't have an easy and visible method for showing
the progress on CL projects, which we do have for CC/AC projects. So
that makes it tricky to see where all the club members are at.
With much perseverance, I have actually completed the CL manual, and
one or two of my other club members will probably also complete it
this year. But most club members are not actively working in the CL
manual, despite my consistent exhortations and reminders to do so.
I agree with your comment that the manual seems like more of a
nuisance than a benefit to most of the members. Those few who are
actively working in the CL manual do seem to read the comments.
I would welcome a change through TI to this manual, especially since
it counts as 2 of the 10 DCP points (to get an AL you have to first
achieve the CL, hence DCP goals #5,6 are involved).
Theresa Barker
President, UW Toastmasters #1151, Area 25
On Feb 6, 10:12 am, Betsy In VA <b7...@keogan.com> wrote:
> > We've now had the new CL manual for what, a year and a half, or more?
> > I wonder how many people have been completing it, whether TI views it
> > as a success, etc?
> I don't know about TI, but my observation is that it's a complete
> dud.
> Last year, when I was area governor and regularly visiting a number of
> clubs, I noticed about half my clubs gave it a shot. People brought
> manuals for a few meetings--but they were doing it for the DCP
> points.
> You want to know what most people really think? IThis manual is a
> nuisance, and after a few meetings even the people who are good sports
> stop bothering with it. Nobody reads the comments after the manual is
> handed back. Nobody feels they have become better leaders as a result
> of completing this manual. It was a nice idea--but sometimes nice
> ideas just don't work out well.
> I've watched a few clubs try having "leadershipmasters" in a variety
> of ways--this doesn't seem to last more than a few meetings, either.
> But that's just my observation--things may be different in other
> places.
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