So, here I am at a Department of Education function for the US
Government. We're working on some high-level stuff that's not
particularly interesting to this audience...
...but a few minutes into our meeting, up strolls Aneesh Chopra. The
Chief Technology Officer for the United States.
He asked how many game developers were in the room, and was
disappointed when no one raised their hand.
He then talked about the importance of innovation in educational
technology, and he busted out an Obama quote of which I was previously
unaware, from March of this year:
"In the same way that we invested in the science and research that led
to the breakthroughs like the Internet, I'm calling for investments in
educational technology that will help create digital tutors that are
as effective as personal tutors, and educational software that's as
compelling as the best video game."
I will be making some changes in my personal and professional life to
allow me more time to focus on te Tinygames vision. Which means
you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the very near future.
In the meantime, tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
Well I am here because I still care about the issue - interactive, open source education - but I still haven't figured out how it can possibly work.
My gut instinct is that the only viable community will look a lot like the open-source java community than the desktop linux community. There is a significant profit motive in the j2ee/spring/tomcat/jboss community and frankly I think it makes them better at listening to their customers.
I think it is really key to figure out how monetize tiny games stuff, just as jboss, spring source and others did with open source java tools.
I more than ever believe that html 5 is the way to go, not native android apps.
that s my 2 cents On Jun 15, 2011 7:35 PM, "Greg DeKoenigsberg" <greg.dekoenigsb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, here I am at a Department of Education function for the US > Government. We're working on some high-level stuff that's not > particularly interesting to this audience...
> ...but a few minutes into our meeting, up strolls Aneesh Chopra. The > Chief Technology Officer for the United States.
> He asked how many game developers were in the room, and was > disappointed when no one raised their hand.
> He then talked about the importance of innovation in educational > technology, and he busted out an Obama quote of which I was previously > unaware, from March of this year:
> "In the same way that we invested in the science and research that led > to the breakthroughs like the Internet, I'm calling for investments in > educational technology that will help create digital tutors that are > as effective as personal tutors, and educational software that's as > compelling as the best video game."
> I will be making some changes in my personal and professional life to > allow me more time to focus on te Tinygames vision. Which means > you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the very near future.
> In the meantime, tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
Hi, Greg. Glad to finally be accepted to the list!! :-)
> tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
My name is Ed and I'm addicted to Open Source Education.
In particular, my thing is integrating FOS games into the great
national debate over teacher and school assessment. We're going down a
scary path right now (now to get too wonky on u). We assess kids two
years later with pencil and paper, when we should be assessing their
progress AS IT HAPPENS, via games.
I'm taken by Ruby and Rails, 1) because I can read the code and 2)
because it seems to make apps more easily customizable online, on the
fly.
What I'd like to see is a setup where games--with either HTML5 or
Actionscript (or native) player UI's--are customizable online by
educators and developers.Where the data (questions, answers, places,
people, facts, dates, etc). is separate from the game, both in
location and ownership and in gameplay.
ed
On Jun 15, 1:35 pm, Greg DeKoenigsberg <greg.dekoenigsb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> So, here I am at a Department of Education function for the US
> Government. We're working on some high-level stuff that's not
> particularly interesting to this audience...
> ...but a few minutes into our meeting, up strolls Aneesh Chopra. The
> Chief Technology Officer for the United States.
> He asked how many game developers were in the room, and was
> disappointed when no one raised their hand.
> He then talked about the importance of innovation in educational
> technology, and he busted out an Obama quote of which I was previously
> unaware, from March of this year:
> "In the same way that we invested in the science and research that led
> to the breakthroughs like the Internet, I'm calling for investments in
> educational technology that will help create digital tutors that are
> as effective as personal tutors, and educational software that's as
> compelling as the best video game."
> I will be making some changes in my personal and professional life to
> allow me more time to focus on te Tinygames vision. Which means
> you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the very near future.
> In the meantime, tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
That is a compelling call to arms. Thanks for sharing, Greg
One of my goals this summer is to contribute open source games to the
XO project. This sets prerogatives of universal appeal, extremely easy
to understand design, high educational value (without necessarily much
content), and a comparatively low-tech no-frills technical
implementation. A list of existing projects and proposals is here:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Games
Why go tiny? If games are a type of open-ended interactive experience,
and social games are all about making those experiences collaborative,
then I would say that tiny games have a low learning curve, perhaps an
apparent simplicity that hides much depth under the surface, sometimes
low development budget/time requirements.
Are they casual, educational, portable? Not necessarily, it all
depends on your objectives. I would say it's about the process: tiny
games should be fun to make and share and play - think of the
experience of making tiny games as a tiny game in itself!
Looking forward to connect with folks doing similar stuff on this list
and share stories :)
> Hi, Greg. Glad to finally be accepted to the list!! :-)
> > tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
> My name is Ed and I'm addicted to Open Source Education.
> In particular, my thing is integrating FOS games into the great
> national debate over teacher and school assessment. We're going down a
> scary path right now (now to get too wonky on u). We assess kids two
> years later with pencil and paper, when we should be assessing their
> progress AS IT HAPPENS, via games.
> I'm taken by Ruby and Rails, 1) because I can read the code and 2)
> because it seems to make apps more easily customizable online, on the
> fly.
> What I'd like to see is a setup where games--with either HTML5 or
> Actionscript (or native) player UI's--are customizable online by
> educators and developers.Where the data (questions, answers, places,
> people, facts, dates, etc). is separate from the game, both in
> location and ownership and in gameplay.
> ed
> On Jun 15, 1:35 pm, Greg DeKoenigsberg <greg.dekoenigsb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello all.
> > So, here I am at a Department of Education function for the US
> > Government. We're working on some high-level stuff that's not
> > particularly interesting to this audience...
> > ...but a few minutes into our meeting, up strolls Aneesh Chopra. The
> > Chief Technology Officer for the United States.
> > He asked how many game developers were in the room, and was
> > disappointed when no one raised their hand.
> > He then talked about the importance of innovation in educational
> > technology, and he busted out an Obama quote of which I was previously
> > unaware, from March of this year:
> > "In the same way that we invested in the science and research that led
> > to the breakthroughs like the Internet, I'm calling for investments in
> > educational technology that will help create digital tutors that are
> > as effective as personal tutors, and educational software that's as
> > compelling as the best video game."
> > I will be making some changes in my personal and professional life to
> > allow me more time to focus on te Tinygames vision. Which means
> > you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the very near future.
> > In the meantime, tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Bryan Berry <bryan.be...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well I am here because I still care about the issue - interactive, open > source education - but I still haven't figured out how it can possibly work.
> My gut instinct is that the only viable community will look a lot like the > open-source java community than the desktop linux community. There is a > significant profit motive in the j2ee/spring/tomcat/jboss community and > frankly I think it makes them better at listening to their customers.
> I think it is really key to figure out how monetize tiny games stuff, just > as jboss, spring source and others did with open source java tools.
> I more than ever believe that html 5 is the way to go, not native android > apps.
> that s my 2 cents
My initial gut feel:
* Front end == HTML5+JS. Free. * Back end == instrumentation, analysis, persistent game session, integration with FB, etc. Not free.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Ed Jones <ed.jo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Greg. Glad to finally be accepted to the list!! :-)
>> tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
> My name is Ed and I'm addicted to Open Source Education.
> In particular, my thing is integrating FOS games into the great > national debate over teacher and school assessment. We're going down a > scary path right now (now to get too wonky on u). We assess kids two > years later with pencil and paper, when we should be assessing their > progress AS IT HAPPENS, via games.
> I'm taken by Ruby and Rails, 1) because I can read the code and 2) > because it seems to make apps more easily customizable online, on the > fly.
> What I'd like to see is a setup where games--with either HTML5 or > Actionscript (or native) player UI's--are customizable online by > educators and developers.Where the data (questions, answers, places, > people, facts, dates, etc). is separate from the game, both in > location and ownership and in gameplay.
I believe in HTML5. This community is primarily intended for developing HTML5 games.
Re: separation of data and gameplay, I think some of this is possible, and some not. I might say "instructional material highly embedded, assessment taking the shape of games that are auto-generated by data."
I've got some prototype code for pulling questions from a question bank using the Moodle gift format and turning it into a set of rooms in Akihabara. I'll have to polish that up a bit and push it into Github.
I spent a lot of time in the OLPC orbit, and that experience is what led me here.
My biggest concern with XO activities is that they are very limited in potential reach. HTML5 will, at some point, run on everything with a browser -- even if that's not the case right yet.
What's the browser on the latest XO? Is it HTML5/Canvas compatible?
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:26 PM, loleg <lavrov...@gmail.com> wrote: > That is a compelling call to arms. Thanks for sharing, Greg
> One of my goals this summer is to contribute open source games to the > XO project. This sets prerogatives of universal appeal, extremely easy > to understand design, high educational value (without necessarily much > content), and a comparatively low-tech no-frills technical > implementation. A list of existing projects and proposals is here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Games
> Why go tiny? If games are a type of open-ended interactive experience, > and social games are all about making those experiences collaborative, > then I would say that tiny games have a low learning curve, perhaps an > apparent simplicity that hides much depth under the surface, sometimes > low development budget/time requirements.
> Are they casual, educational, portable? Not necessarily, it all > depends on your objectives. I would say it's about the process: tiny > games should be fun to make and share and play - think of the > experience of making tiny games as a tiny game in itself!
> Looking forward to connect with folks doing similar stuff on this list > and share stories :)
My daughter is now 4-years-old and she reads, writes, speaks some
Spanish and can navigate an XO-1.5 better than I can. While most of
her early learning took place at home with flash cards and games with
my wife and me, she started playing games on Nick Jr. and PBS Kids
websites at an early age. A GNU/Linux user, I exposed her to Fedora
and the Sugar Desktop. I am incredibly proud of her and have spent a
good deal of time watching her play and learn, identifying problems
she has with various interfaces what games actually are teaching her
something she can hold on to. Though not a programmer, I take great
interest in the development of these educational games and software
activities; part of why I am a volunteer with OLPC and taking an
interest in Fedora as an Ambassador. I feel the development process
from requirements to design, build and test, and documentation to
implementation should be as thorough as possible to ensure the highest
quality educational games and activities. I'm here because, though
I'm not yet sure how, I know my daughter and I can contribute to that
quality in same way.
<christ...@linux.com> wrote: > My daughter is now 4-years-old and she reads, writes, speaks some > Spanish and can navigate an XO-1.5 better than I can. While most of > her early learning took place at home with flash cards and games with > my wife and me, she started playing games on Nick Jr. and PBS Kids > websites at an early age. A GNU/Linux user, I exposed her to Fedora > and the Sugar Desktop. I am incredibly proud of her and have spent a > good deal of time watching her play and learn, identifying problems > she has with various interfaces what games actually are teaching her > something she can hold on to. Though not a programmer, I take great > interest in the development of these educational games and software > activities; part of why I am a volunteer with OLPC and taking an > interest in Fedora as an Ambassador. I feel the development process > from requirements to design, build and test, and documentation to > implementation should be as thorough as possible to ensure the highest > quality educational games and activities. I'm here because, though > I'm not yet sure how, I know my daughter and I can contribute to that > quality in same way.
Thanks Christian.
I've got a very particular vision of a very particular kind of game. I'm sure it's not the only vision, but it's the one vision I've got the passion to drive.
In the very near future -- as soon as I can free myself from my current time sucks -- I'll be articulating this vision more fully, with show and tell, examples, tutorials, IRC meetings, and so on and so on. (The demo that pulls automagically from Github seems to be broken, so the first thing I want to do is fix that, hopefully tonite. Will ping all when it works.)
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Ed Jones <ed.jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi, Greg. Glad to finally be accepted to the list!! :-)
> >> tell me: who are you, and why are you on this list?
> > My name is Ed and I'm addicted to Open Source Education.
> > In particular, my thing is integrating FOS games into the great
> > national debate over teacher and school assessment. We're going down a
> > scary path right now (now to get too wonky on u). We assess kids two
> > years later with pencil and paper, when we should be assessing their
> > progress AS IT HAPPENS, via games.
> > I'm taken by Ruby and Rails, 1) because I can read the code and 2)
> > because it seems to make apps more easily customizable online, on the
> > fly.
> > What I'd like to see is a setup where games--with either HTML5 or
> > Actionscript (or native) player UI's--are customizable online by
> > educators and developers.Where the data (questions, answers, places,
> > people, facts, dates, etc). is separate from the game, both in
> > location and ownership and in gameplay.
> I believe in HTML5. This community is primarily intended for
> developing HTML5 games.
> Re: separation of data and gameplay, I think some of this is possible,
> and some not. I might say "instructional material highly embedded,
> assessment taking the shape of games that are auto-generated by data."
> I've got some prototype code for pulling questions from a question
> bank using the Moodle gift format and turning it into a set of rooms
> in Akihabara. I'll have to polish that up a bit and push it into
> Github.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Bryan Berry <bryan.be...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well I am here because I still care about the issue - interactive, open > source education - but I still haven't figured out how it can possibly work.
I would second that word for word! :-)
Great to see the sudden burst of energy and passion here again, I hope we can channel it into some tangible outcomes soon.
Cheers, Christoph
> --
Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
> Christian, on Top-down design, have you read the RSpec book?
Funny you should mention that. I'm not a Ruby programmer but use Ruby tools all the time. RSpec Book was recommended over at openSUSE when I was putting time on that OS, before I turned full focus to Fedora. If I were a programmer, this is the way I would approach the task. I like the keyword from the the overview: "craftsmanship". Actually, even at the shell script level, the ideas hold. Especially for an OS release engineer, for such a large system release with lots of dependencies, the process the book describes holds water still...
Complete separation of interactivity and exercise content. You can
actually re-use the exact same content and simply change the
interactive, whenever compatible.
Thanks to a system of adapters, you can get write data in different
formats, show different types of scoreboards, and use google
spreadsheets as a cheap (well free) data storage that doesn't require
any access to a back-end (demo of this at: http://jsdo.it/widged/gsheet_shoutbox).
You can embed them in most LMS, play them on your devices (iPad,
android, XO laptops last I tried), or simply play them from your free
drop-box account.
All that is work that is still very much at alpha stage. For now, I
have been focusing on the framework. Trying to come up with something
that is truly scalable and extensible. Once I am happy that I have a
sound framework, I will start adding more complex activities. More
game-like, with leaderboard. Possibly multiplayer. Using advanced
functionalities like this splendid interactive geometry library.
If you have ideas for new activities, let me know.
Feedback, requests for extra features, or collaborations are welcome.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:01 AM, widged <wid...@googlemail.com> wrote: > that link somehow didn't make it. Interactive geometry library - > http://jsxgraph.uni-bayreuth.de/wp/
Here's a question for you: have you considered how these widgeds are connected to standards? Is there a pathway linking all these widgeds together to a set of learning objectives? Or is that not a problem you're interested in solving yet?
I'm *extremely* interested in the specific set of "mastering a chain of skills in a narrative framework" -- thanks to C. Scott's blog post yesterday which helped me articulate this idea.
--g
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg
<greg.dekoenigsb...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is great stuff. Really good.
> Here's
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:01 AM, widged <wid...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> that link somehow didn't make it. Interactive geometry library - >> http://jsxgraph.uni-bayreuth.de/wp/
> Complete separation of interactivity and exercise content. You can
> actually re-use the exact same content and simply change the
> interactive, whenever compatible.
> Thanks to a system of adapters, you can get write data in different
> formats, show different types of scoreboards, and use google
> spreadsheets as a cheap (well free) data storage that doesn't require
> any access to a back-end (demo of this at:http://jsdo.it/widged/gsheet_shoutbox).
> You can embed them in most LMS, play them on your devices (iPad,
> android, XO laptops last I tried), or simply play them from your free
> drop-box account.
> All that is work that is still very much at alpha stage. For now, I
> have been focusing on the framework. Trying to come up with something
> that is truly scalable and extensible. Once I am happy that I have a
> sound framework, I will start adding more complex activities. More
> game-like, with leaderboard. Possibly multiplayer. Using advanced
> functionalities like this splendid interactive geometry library.
> If you have ideas for new activities, let me know.
> Feedback, requests for extra features, or collaborations are welcome.
> Here's a question for you: have you considered how these widgeds are > connected to standards? Is there a pathway linking all these widgeds > together to a set of learning objectives? Or is that not a problem > you're interested in solving yet?
> I'm *extremely* interested in the specific set of "mastering a chain > of skills in a narrative framework" -- thanks to C. Scott's blog post > yesterday which helped me articulate this idea.
> --g
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg > <greg.dekoenigsb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > This is great stuff. Really good.
> > Here's
> > On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:01 AM, widged <wid...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> that link somehow didn't make it. Interactive geometry library - > >> http://jsxgraph.uni-bayreuth.de/wp/
Interactive games for learning, what a great concept! I want to be
involved. After 30 years experience teaching (grades 7-12 maths,
sciences, CS, and as a counselor) I'd love to get involved in
something like this.
I am sort of a compulsive educator... always full of ideas... just
need programmers and developers to help do something with them. For
example, I must admit I am easily addicted to some app games on my
iPod touch. There is one called "Farm Life" that is a simulation of a
farm, complete with crops, animals, and chores! Someone has already
suggested a game like this on the wiki. The one I was playing works
something like this...
You have to plow new land, plant, feed the animals, collect crops,
honey, wool, eggs, and milk, make cheese, catsup, and popcorn and,
finally sell things. Seeds for the crops cost virtual money. You can
buy animals. You sell different crops for different amounts of virtual
money. You can make more from feeding corn to the chickens to get
eggs than you can by making popcorn. Milk sells for more than alfalfa
(which you feed your cows) and cheese sells for more than milk... you
get the idea.
Lots of educational possibilities! Children can be asked to plan what
they will grow and calculate how much they will earn (addition,
subtraction, multiplication). They can calculate percentage of profits
and loss. By setting goals they can plan ahead and then try to reach
those goals in a certain time to get different awards.
Someone has already suggested a game like this. I can help! By the
way... I said I _was_ playing the game. We used to keep goats,
chickens, and rabbits. The game became too much like the chores I
remember so I deleted it! But as a possible fun educational game...
something like this would have loads of potential!
So... when someone is ready to start on an educational game and needs
a teacher-type person to help with planning the lessons... which is
really what you will be doing...(old teacher saying, "If you fail to
plan, you plan to fail.").... just let me know!
> Here's a question for you: have you considered how these widgeds are
> connected to standards? Is there a pathway linking all these widgeds
> together to a set of learning objectives? Or is that not a problem
> you're interested in solving yet?
For now, widgets are not targeted to specific subjects, age groups or
pedagogical frameworks or standard strands. But yes, if I want
teachers to become interested, I have to show concrete examples across
the curriculum. I am interested in doing that. I have collected
information about samples of assessment from across the globe (PISA,
TIMS, Core Standard, etc). But most of that assessment was designed to
work on paper.
Another challenge is to go beyond the traditional way of doing things
to also provide teachers with support or knowledge for good design
(color palettes anyone?), interactivity, engagement, and, yes, the
very important storytelling skills. That part is still in private
development. I am working on a system of cards to share some of that
knowledge. Something in the spirit of this: http://artofgamedesign.com/cards/lenses.htm,
http://nform.com/tradingcards/, or the excellent 1-2 pages long
information that you find in the unesco booklets:
http://www.ibe.unesco.org/publications/EducationalPracticesSeriesPdf/...
For now, the code is written in a way that demands some dealing with
html and javascript code (though feedback from a non technical teacher
using it on wikispaces suggest that it is in the reach of those not
afraid of html). The idea then is to provide teachers with an
interface that let then focus exclusively on content creation while
receiving just in time guidelines adapted to the content / age group /
approach that they are taking. Very early alpha, but I know that it
can be done and how it can be done: http://projects.widged.com/exercist/flex/.
Generation of javascript content within a flex app.
Though still early in development, I had the ideas for this 5+ years
ago. I do have plenty of material on my computer. Probably enough to
keep me busy for 10 years or so if I was trying to convert it all.
Then there is the issue of copyright. Not many assessment content is
shared under open licenses. Fullmarks was mentioned on this list
(http://www.fullmarks.org.za/). Is the content under CC by default? Do
you have other examples?
Ah, well, I come from Flex (Actionscript 3) from OO and find
javascript/jQuery most frustrating ;-). But jQuery has progressively
become the most popular library thanks to its pluggable architecture
and it is a great asset for my project.
You don't need more than a basic knowledge of jQuery to understand and
modify the code (simply because I only have a basic knowledge of
jQuery). If you are interested in writing your own activities, let me
know, I will take the time to write a bit of a tutorial. If you check
the different activities, you will see a pattern. Easiest is to copy
the code for one, keep the skeleton and change the code inside each
function.
The real advantage is that all you have to care is write a good mini-
activity. Complex code that does the parsing, write data to google
spreadsheet, etc. is all kept in adapters than can be used on demand
using simple, typically one line calls.
The goal really was to create an architecture that make it easy to
contribute. If it is not easy enough yet, let me know and I will try
and smooth the edges.
On Jun 17, 2:42 am, Ed Jones <ed.jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Complete separation of interactivity and exercise content. You can
> > actually re-use the exact same content and simply change the
> > interactive, whenever compatible.
> > Thanks to a system of adapters, you can get write data in different
> > formats, show different types of scoreboards, and use google
> > spreadsheets as a cheap (well free) data storage that doesn't require
> > any access to a back-end (demo of this at:http://jsdo.it/widged/gsheet_shoutbox).
> > You can embed them in most LMS, play them on your devices (iPad,
> > android, XO laptops last I tried), or simply play them from your free
> > drop-box account.
> > All that is work that is still very much at alpha stage. For now, I
> > have been focusing on the framework. Trying to come up with something
> > that is truly scalable and extensible. Once I am happy that I have a
> > sound framework, I will start adding more complex activities. More
> > game-like, with leaderboard. Possibly multiplayer. Using advanced
> > functionalities like this splendid interactive geometry library.
> > If you have ideas for new activities, let me know.
> > Feedback, requests for extra features, or collaborations are welcome.
