CX keys

[Neville Windsor]

I have just got my hands on a CX handheld and I have noticed one change from the previous black touchpad handheld.  If I want to calculate something like sin(pi/3) on the CX, I have to press trig, enter, pi, enter, division, 3 and then the final enter.  On the black touchpad, the first two enters are not necessary.  I wonder if this change was intentional, and if so, why.

Neville Windsor

Hellyer College

Burnie Tasmania

---

Please consider the environment before printing this, or any other e-mail or document

________________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER

Information in this transmission is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised and you should delete/destroy all copies and notify the sender. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission.

This disclaimer has been automatically added.

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

Hey Neville, you've precisely struck my point. In fact, I've already sent emails to TI-Care concerning this phenomenon, and they replied that they've forwarded my suggestion to the development team.(I don't think any of the TI-Care staff took this issue seriously)

Not only CX, but also grayscale OS v3.0  disabled the feature you've described. (anyone with OS version lower than 2.1 may check) To my understanding, the original "enter-need-not" palette input is actually a bug (although it provides much convenience); so follow this logic TI "eliminated" the "bug" unnecessarily. To tell the truth, I'm also annoyed by this weird change.

Maybe you can inform TI-Care of the problem: once the number of complaints on one point increases, they won't turn a blind eye any longer.  ;)

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Neville Windsor <Neville...@academy.tas.edu.au>

--
To post to this group, send email to tins...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe send email to tinspire+u...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com.au/group/tinspire?hl=en-GB?hl=en-GB
The tns documents shared by group members are archived at
http://lafacroft.com/archive/nspire.php

[Joe]

Perhaps to reset the color? Is any of that is color?

On May 8, 8:33 pm, Neville Windsor

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

I don't think colour or not is relevant to the palette entry issue discussed above.  ;-)

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Joe <wjb...@yahoo.com>

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

This post is for TI officials who visit this group:

Actually the "enter-need-not" input is very convenient and enables us to type faster. I hope TI can restore it as soon as possible, maybe in the new OS 3.x in mid-May. I wish those who are right now beta-testing could also forward the suggestion. (since the change itself is extremely unnecessary)

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Jimmy Fullerenex <smoa...@gmail.com>

[Neville Windsor]

No colour (or color - depending on where you live), it's just a mild annoyance at having a couple of extra key presses.

--

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

>No colour (or color - depending on where you live)

I don't get it. There seems nothing to do with colour here.

>it's just a mild annoyance at having a couple of extra key presses.

It depends on person. I (as well as many of my classmates) have got so used to the original key strokes that every time now I enter a trig or pi expression I unconsciously make typos and bumps. It's hardly a "mild" annoyance for me.

Besides, what bothers me most is the illogic of unnecessary changes. Who knows if any more annoying ones may occur in the future? TI seldom answers to most desired changes (like we have asked for eons Laplace(),advanced functions, and native programming platform on Nspire), but it loves to focus, unbidden, on minor changes that do more harm than good.

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Neville Windsor <Neville...@academy.tas.edu.au>

No colour (or color - depending on where you live), it's just a mild annoyance at having a couple of extra key presses.

[Neville Windsor]

Nothing to do with colour is what I meant.

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

CX hasn't been on the market yet. So you're participating in beta-testing?

[Joe]

"TI seldom answers to most desired changes (like we have asked for
eons Laplace(),advanced functions, and native programming platform on
Nspire), but it loves to focus, unbidden, on minor changes that do
more harm than good."

Unfortunately you are completely correct and I hear your frustration.
It used to frustrate the heck out of me also. For example how can
they claim 3d graphing when their program cannot graph a helix? Or
how can a bug/flaw occur in the desolve function that has worked well
for about a decade? Then of course there is the release an os that
can brick calc's and the difficulty that some people had updating to
it along with the blocking of the ability to downgrade to a safer os
version, so screwing up something simple like sin(pi/3) by adding
keystrokes doesn't surprise me at all. In fact since I have
downgraded my image of ti to a group of people who are probably doing
the best they can but lack the competence to make good decisions and
produce good software, nothing that they do surprizes me any more.
Just my opinion.

On May 8, 10:05 pm, Jimmy Fullerenex <smoat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >No colour (or color - depending on where you live)
>
> I don't get it. There seems nothing to do with colour here.>it's just a mild annoyance at having a couple of extra key presses.
>
> It depends on person. I (as well as many of my classmates) have got so used
> to the original key strokes that every time now I enter a trig or pi
> expression I unconsciously make typos and bumps. It's hardly a "mild"
> annoyance for me.
> Besides, what bothers me most is the illogic of unnecessary changes. Who
> knows if any more annoying ones may occur in the future? TI seldom answers
> to most desired changes (like we have asked for eons Laplace(),advanced
> functions, and native programming platform on Nspire), but it loves
> to focus, unbidden, on minor changes that do more harm than good.
>  Cheers,
> Jimmy Fullerenex
>

> 2011/5/9 Neville Windsor <Neville.Wind...@academy.tas.edu.au>

> >http://lafacroft.com/archive/nspire.php- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

Hear!

Another mysterious thing's that how come months of beta-testing fails to recognize such rampant bugs (obviously malfunctioning calculating commands, along with the widely acknowledged "worst bug in history of calculators") and annoying (also absurd) changes on keystrokes ?!

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Joe <wjb...@yahoo.com>

"TI seldom answers to most desired changes (like we have asked for

[Nelson Sousa]

"how can they claim 3d graphing when their program cannot graph a helix?"

Neither does the TI-89 Titanium nor the Voyage 200.

At least be coherent: you can't criticize the Nspire for lacking the
features you like on the TI-89/Voyage 200 and then ilustrate this with
examples that those two also lack.

Yes, it plots in 3D. It plots functions in 3D, functions R^2 -> R. TI
has never claimed it can plot parametric 3D plots, 3D scatter plots,
implicit curves or contour graphs. A helix is not represented by a
function R^2->R.

Nelson

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

But it is beyond me what's beta-testing doing after all? Obvious bugs not detected; ridiculous changes made.

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/9 Nelson Sousa <nso...@gmail.com>

[Joe]

HI Nelson, Good to hear from you again my friend.

Two wrongs don't make a right and justifying nspires lacking
performance on the basis of another products lacking performance 15-20
years ago is nonsense but nice try.

On 3d plotting we agree that the the cx does not do parametric 3D
plots (which includes lines/curves), 3D scatter plots, implicit curves
or contour graphs. It only plots surfaces z=f(x,y) and that is all
that can be claimed. To use the broad sweeping statement that the cx
does 3d plotting is missleading (because it only does some limited 3d
plotting) but thats what I have come to expect from companies trying
to sell a product. I'll give you a pass on that one because it is a
fine point of American English which is not your native language.

Since you are very good at justifying poor performance perhaps you
would like to comment on what Jimmy said: "another mysterious thing's

that how come months of beta-testing fails to recognize such rampant
bugs (obviously malfunctioning calculating commands, along with the
widely acknowledged "worst bug in history of calculators") and

annoying (also absurd) changes on keystrokes ?!" I take such things
as indicators of ti's level of competence. It is what it is and I've
come to expect less from ti than I used to with the result that I'm no
longer surprized or disappointed by their blunders. In fact I've come
to expect them.

> >> >http://lafacroft.com/archive/nspire.php-Hide quoted text -

[Nelson Sousa]

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 18:00, Joe <wjb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> HI Nelson,  Good to hear from you again my friend.
>
> Two wrongs don't make a right and justifying nspires lacking
> performance on the basis of another products lacking performance 15-20
> years ago is nonsense but nice try.
>

TI-89 was created circa 1998 or 1999. Not 20 years ago, more like 12.
And the last update to the AMS was, if I'm not mistaken, 5 years ago.
It's definetely not a 15-20 year old product.

I have no problem with you demanding more features on the Nspire CAS.
You're free to do so and I agree some of those features are important
(others fall in to the "nice to have" category) . But you can't
criticize the Nspire for lacking features x,y and z and at the same
time praise the 89 that also lacks them. That's all I'm saying.

> On 3d plotting we agree that the the cx does not do parametric 3D
> plots (which includes lines/curves), 3D scatter plots, implicit curves
> or contour graphs.  It only plots surfaces z=f(x,y) and that is all
> that can be claimed.  To use the broad sweeping statement that the cx
> does 3d plotting is missleading (because it only does some limited 3d
> plotting) but thats what I have come to expect from companies trying
> to sell a product.  I'll give you a pass on that one because it is a
> fine point of American English which is not your native language.
>

I was under the impression that a plot of the type z=f(x,y) was a 3D
plot. When you go to Mathematica and want to plot such a thing you
call the function Plot3D. Same goes to every other software. You can
claim that Nspire's 3D is limited and I agree. But since when is
"limited support" the same as "no support"?

> Since you are very good at justifying poor performance perhaps you
> would like to comment on what Jimmy said:  "another mysterious thing's
> that how come months of beta-testing fails to recognize such rampant
> bugs (obviously malfunctioning calculating commands, along with the
> widely acknowledged "worst bug in history of calculators") and
> annoying (also absurd) changes on keystrokes ?!"  I take such things
> as indicators of ti's level of competence.  It is what it is and I've
> come to expect less from ti than I used to with the result that I'm no
> longer surprized or disappointed by their blunders.  In fact I've come
> to expect them.
>

I wasn't involved neither on the beta testing program nor on the
product development program. Nor am I a representative of any of those
involved.

Nelson

[Rex Boggs]

Just a reminder that if you are writing to a person, such as the email below, that it is more
appropriate to send the email to the person directly rather than via the list. Most members have
no interest in reading personal emails to another person.

The purpose of the list is to discuss how to best use the TI-Nspire calculator to enhance learning
and teaching. If someone wants to discuss the perceived failings of the calculator, then there
other more appropriate avenues for doing so (such as emailing TI directly).

Cheers

Rex
(putting on his list moderator hat)

**

[Wayne]

I actually prefer the method used in OS 3.0.1 and encourage TI not to
use to the "enter-need-not" input method. Just my two cents.

On 9 May, 00:38, Jimmy Fullerenex <smoat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This post is for TI officials who visit this group:
> Actually the "enter-need-not" input is very convenient and enables us to
> type faster. I hope TI can restore it as soon as possible, maybe in the new
> OS 3.x in mid-May. I wish those who are right now beta-testing could also
> forward the suggestion. (since the change itself is extremely unnecessary)
>  Cheers,
> Jimmy Fullerenex
>

> 2011/5/9 Jimmy Fullerenex <smoat...@gmail.com>

[Sean Bird]

I had heard that this behavior makes it more consistent with the way other areas work, like the Math Templates.
My students will miss the 'enter' optional for trig and pi.

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

>I actually prefer the method used in OS 3.0.1 and encourage TI not to
use to the "enter-need-not" input method. Just my two cents.

Wayne, your preference does not represent majority in any respect.

Perhaps you've hardly used the "enter-need-not" palette, so you have no idea how much inconvenience TI's ridiculous change brings to me and my classmates. We've been used to it, and now typing with sin and pi gives us much headache. (typos and bumps are no good things to be expected while taking exams!)

Besides, you did not see another picture of the story. Perhaps you think this issue is no such big a deal, but in fact it has quite negative connotations, and, as Joe remarked, reveals some level of management inadequacy. Who knows if in the future TI may still waste much time on minor details but fail to catch the bigger fish? 

 If officials are reading this post, I wish they adopt our suggestions, and I earnestly hope that beta-testing will not just be an empty procedure.

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/10 Wayne <wayn...@thepaces.org>

[Wayne]

I see no reason to believe that your preference is any more
representative of the majority than mine, actually.

I have extensively used all version of the OS since 1.6.

I see no evidence that this choice has any relevance whatsoever to
management inadequacy at TI.

Best,
Wayne

On 10 May, 01:05, Jimmy Fullerenex <smoat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I actually prefer the method used in OS 3.0.1 and encourage TI not to
>
> use to the "enter-need-not" input method. Just my two cents.
> Wayne, your preference does not represent majority in any respect.
> Perhaps you've hardly used the "enter-need-not" palette, so you have no idea
> how much inconvenience TI's ridiculous change brings to me and my
> classmates. We've been used to it, and now typing with sin and pi gives us
> much headache. (typos and bumps are no good things to be expected while
> taking exams!)
> Besides, you did not see another picture of the story. Perhaps you think
> this issue is no such big a deal, but in fact it has quite negative
> connotations, and, as Joe remarked, reveals some level of management
> inadequacy. Who knows if in the future TI may still waste much time on minor
> details but fail to catch the bigger fish?
>  If officials are reading this post, I wish they adopt our suggestions, and
> I earnestly hope that beta-testing will not just be an empty procedure.
>  Cheers,
> Jimmy Fullerenex
>

> 2011/5/10 Wayne <waynep...@thepaces.org>

> > > >>http://lafacroft.com/archive/nspire.php-Hide quoted text -

[Lana Golembeski]

I have been reading this with great interest. Only thing I have to say is how many of you have a PC? Have you ever installed the latest OS? Have there not been numerous bugs in the new one that you found annoying when everything worked pretty darn well w the old OS. Every day I work w  word 8.0, I curse microsoft! I would much prefer the old software. The math template is very annoying. It seems to that this is microsoft's bread and butter. And we live w it. TI does not make it's money on calculators- it is a minor part of their business. So if Microsoft makes things worse when they create upgrades why should we expect TI to be perfect? Maybe you guys do jump all over Microsoft - I hope so! Then you will at least be consistent. I think TI is sensitive to our needs and I think they deliver an excellent teaching tool. 

Personally i much prefer my Mac to a PC. And if a different calculator comes out that is better than the TI calculators I probably will switch. 

But at the moment my complaints are few and far between. And let's not forget how we educators pushed for this new OS to be released. Maybe TI did listen to us and that's why an imperfect product was released.

Just my 2 cents! And whatever happened to the cents symbol?? I haven't seen it in years!! LOL!

Sent from my iPhone

Lana

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

Hear!

>And if a different calculator comes out that is better than the TI calculators I probably will switch.

Since some of Casio calculators' cas already does better than Nspire in a couple of ways, we're just trying to give TI a hand and improve their competitiveness. All of our critiques are of course not intended to defame Nspire. Brand loyalty tells me to stick to Nspire and its family even if it is a buggy one with annoying details.

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/10 Lana Golembeski <gole...@gmail.com>

[Andy Kemp]

Jimmy,

Please remember though that that is not the purpose of this group - as Rex (The Mod) has recently pointed out.  If you wish to critique the Nspire platform that is absolutely fine, but this is not the place for it...  This group was established to provide an environment for Maths teachers to discuss how to make the best use of the technology in their classrooms (as you will see in the description for the group)...

Cheers

Andy

[Jimmy Fullerenex]

Sure, I'll try to refrain from further comments regarding this issue, but I won't change my point.

Let us forget about it and move on to more interesting topics then.

Cheers,

Jimmy Fullerenex

2011/5/10 Andy Kemp <an...@kemp.co>