Building the next version of tiddlywebwiki

[chris...@gmail.com]

I've created a tiddler on tiddlyspace with some ideas about how the
next version of tiddlywebwiki might look and would appreciate some
feedback:

http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/tiddlywebwiki2

tiddlywebwiki is the server side code that allows TiddlyWeb to host
TiddlyWiki classic.

I'm crossposting to both the [tiddlyweb] and [twdev] groups to ensure
some measure of visibility. Feel free to respond in either of those
groups or use the reply functionality on TiddlySpace.

Thanks.

--
Chris Dent http://burningchrome.com/
[...]

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Chris

Good stuff. My tuppenyworth:

> Simplify TiddlyWebAdaptor and related plugins to reflect the security issues in modern browsers. Sync is dead, is it not?

It is still possible to save TW classic locally using Firefox with the TiddlyFox extension, and so offline sync may well still be useful to some users. I'm very sympathetic to the goal of simplification, but the offline sync feature remains one of the more unique characteristics of TiddlyWeb+TiddlyWiki and so I'd be in favour of retaining the capability if practical. (TW5 will be able to handle the offline sync use case in due course, which may make it less important to support for TW classic).

> Clarify media types for the below especially regarding tiddlywiki5:

>> rendering tiddlers

Currently, TW5 uses:

* text/vnd.tiddlywiki for text written in TiddlyWiki5 wikitext

* text/vnd.tiddlywiki2 for text written in TiddlyWiki classic wikitext

>> content negotiation for tiddlywikis

TW5 treats TiddlyWiki documents as special text/html documents, and doesn't use a special content type for them.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[chris...@gmail.com]

On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

> It is still possible to save TW classic locally using Firefox with the
> TiddlyFox extension, and so offline sync may well still be useful to some
> users. I'm very sympathetic to the goal of simplification, but the offline
> sync feature remains one of the more unique characteristics of
> TiddlyWeb+TiddlyWiki and so I'd be in favour of retaining the capability if
> practical. (TW5 will be able to handle the offline sync use case in due
> course, which may make it less important to support for TW classic).

What I meant was that sync capability was removed (the syncmachine)
and I don't think it has come back? In classic that is. Perhaps I'm
wrong and missed something?

>> Clarify media types for the below especially regarding tiddlywiki5:
>>> rendering tiddlers
>
> Currently, TW5 uses:
>
> * text/vnd.tiddlywiki for text written in TiddlyWiki5 wikitext
> * text/vnd.tiddlywiki2 for text written in TiddlyWiki classic wikitext
>
>>> content negotiation for tiddlywikis
>
> TW5 treats TiddlyWiki documents as special text/html documents, and doesn't
> use a special content type for them.

Does TW5 ever make an http request for a tw document?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Chris

What I meant was that sync capability was removed (the syncmachine)
and I don't think it has come back? In classic that is. Perhaps I'm
wrong and missed something?

Doh, of course we did. So anyone who wants to use syncing won't need any specific support from the server - they will just have to load the sync stuff up as a plugin manually, is that right?

 

TW5 treats TiddlyWiki documents as special text/html documents, and doesn't
use a special content type for them.

Does TW5 ever make an http request for a tw document?

Only indirectly when importing documents/files. It expects TW documents to have the type text/html, and sniffs inside them to determine whether they are TW files or ordinary HTML files.

Best wishes

Jeremy

 

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[chris...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 13 May 2013, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

>> What I meant was that sync capability was removed (the syncmachine)
>> and I don't think it has come back? In classic that is. Perhaps I'm
>> wrong and missed something?
>
> Doh, of course we did. So anyone who wants to use syncing won't need any
> specific support from the server - they will just have to load the sync
> stuff up as a plugin manually, is that right?

I'm not sure I'm following you here? As far as I was aware the reason
the sync machine was pulled out was because save to server from a
file: based tiddlywiki broke in classic (with the advent of modern
browsers) and has not been fixed, either in core or in a plugin. I may
be totally misremembering history here...

So while functionality of being able to PUT and GET tiddlers from a
tiddlyweb server remains as it always has been, there is complexity
with regard to how tw classic can interact with it when offline?

[Jeremy Ruston]

I'm not sure I'm following you here? As far as I was aware the reason
the sync machine was pulled out was because save to server from a
file: based tiddlywiki broke in classic (with the advent of modern
browsers) and has not been fixed, either in core or in a plugin. I may
be totally misremembering history here...

I believe it's still possible to manually enable cross domain HTTP requests from a file URI on Firefox and Chrome, but that may have changed. But still, all of this demonstrates that any further progress on sync will be strictly for the intrepid.

 

So while functionality of being able to PUT and GET tiddlers from a
tiddlyweb server remains as it always has been, there is complexity
with regard to how tw classic can interact with it when offline?

Yes, "complexity" === "horrendous restrictions".

Best wishes

Jeremy.

 

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