Best solution for connecting TWs

[Amzg]

Has any decent/practical solution come up for collaborating with
multiple TWs?

I'd guess a generally desired setup would be;
- one "central and general TW", possibly local, connected to;
- multiple specialized TWs perhaps online (e.g on tiddlyspot) to
invite other topic-interested users.

Clearly it'd be desirable to be able to both read and write on those
remote TWs **via the central one** - and so without storing copies of
individual tiddlers in the central one (other than perhaps
temporarily) and also without having to pre-specify which individual
tiddlers that are to be edited.

Has any best practice evolved for this?


After some digging I have identified the following tools touching
parts of the issue, but it seems none quite does it - or do I
misunderstand something?

From TiddyTools;
ImportTiddlersPlugin - copies new/updated tiddlers from an external TW
ExternalTiddlersPlugin - (similar to previous but also importing non-
TW files into tiddlers)
LoadTiddlersPlugin - (very similar to previous? No snappy description
in documentation.)
...but using LTP together with TemporaryTiddlersPlugin lets you "each
time you open your document, [...] automatically retrieve an up-to-
date set of common tiddlers that are stored in another document
(either local or via remote URL), without those tiddlers being
retained when you save your document."
- As I understand this, it means I cannot meaningfully edit the source
tiddlers though.

...and the latter also sounds like;
AbegoExtensions IncludePlugin - i.e where you also "can only edit
included tiddlers in their "original" TiddlyWiki. Hence included
Tiddlers are readonly in a "main" TiddlyWiki."

An idea is to import a copy via the above into the central TW, and
then to **force-push** that into the source TW;

More from TiddlyTools:
ExportTiddlersPlugin - lets you push individual tiddlers to a file,
but as far as I can tell not as tiddlers into an existing TW.
UploadPlugin - lets you push a full TW but not individual tiddlers.

...there's also the Imtiaz/Alm;
TiddlySnip Firefox extension - this *does* let you push pieces of any
text - but not quite tiddlers - into a new tiddler in a TW.
Unfortunately not maintained anymore.

An workable option would be an iframe, i.e loading a whole external TW
into a tiddler on the central TW. Workable but not very elegant. Maybe
it is possible to make the external TW show up in singlepagemode and
without mainmenu etc? Anyone done this?


Does anyone have a practical setup for a central TW that can edit
external TWs?

[Måns]

Hi Matias

I've been through several of your suggestions - and now I use four
different methods.
1) UploadTiddlerPlugin by Bidix http://tiddlywiki.bidix.info/#UploadTiddlerPlugin
in a TW which makes extensive use of checkboxes and quick upload of
individual tiddlers -ø thereby minimizing the risk of overwrites...
(sickleavelists etc..)
Example: http://maans.bplaced.net/hu

2) Your last suggestion is the one I use for some of my students
individual TWs. They fill out forms in a local copy and give it back
to me. I upload the result to individual TiddlySpotsites with a
password and integrate their TW's in a MainTW with iframes. They
simply click a sliderbutton (with their name as label) and edits the
TW online. Some students go directly to their own TW and make edits
there - but most students remember the address of the MainTW and use
it as a portal to edit their own TW..
Example: http://tinyurl.com/yjq5moj

3) I use LoadTiddlersPlugin http://www.tiddlytools.com/#LoadTiddlersPlugin
in a TW which acts as a server for copies used by my collegues. Only
tiddlers with certain tags are loaded - to avoid conflicts with
individual preferences - and I'm carefull with tiddlerTitles..
Example - (to many data of confidential nature - sorry)

4) I've tried to setup TiddlyChatter http://tiddlychatter.tiddlyspot.com/index.html
in another TW which I use as a blog - in the hope that it could
provide easy cooperation - but the setup ended up beeing too "hairy"
and I had to give up...
Example: http://edb.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyChatter

Regards Måns Mårtensson

[Eric Shulman]

> ImportTiddlersPlugin - copies new/updated tiddlers from an external TW

note: interactive control panel

> ExternalTiddlersPlugin - (similar to previous but also importing non-
> TW files into tiddlers)

note: only works via <<tiddler>> macro transclusion

> LoadTiddlersPlugin - (very similar to previous? No snappy description
> in documentation.)

macro version of ImportTiddlers functionality

> ExportTiddlersPlugin - lets you push individual tiddlers to a file,
> but as far as I can tell not as tiddlers into an existing TW.

Both ExportTiddlersPlugin (interactive) and SaveAsPlugin (macro) can
be used to *merge* selected tiddlers into an existing TW document.

-e

[skye riquelme]

Hi All

I have been developing something similar. I also use UploadPlugin to
individually load tiddlers (from students) as they are edited to my
server...in some cases these save data to a TW in PureStore
format......just the actual text of the tiddler...not the whole core.
I then use the LoadTiddlers macro to selectively read tiddlers
(normally filtered by tag) into a "mother" TW......these incoming
tiddlers are marked "temporary", so the motherTW refreshes each time
I request the specific infornomation.

To make the system easier for me to use...I have a local TW loaded
with great editing plugins.....into which I write the data.....new
course modules, notices, rminders......this TW uploads (purestore
format) to a central TW and the next time students open their local TW
(often on a pendrive due to lack of internet access in rural brasil)
the TW uses LoadTiddlers to actualise itself. Have even used this
system to do things like update Plugins in the students TW.

The main difficulty I am having is that all this works fine as long as
the data is stored on-line.....when you try to use this system locally
LoadTiddlers falls over.....it can´t handle local, relative URLs.....a
major drawback for me ... as I have some information (personal
learning journal for example) which is not uploaded but rather saved
locally via SaveAs......and LoadTiddlers cant seem to handle that...as
recently reported - http://groups.google.com.br/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/f0dfa3af5433b339#

Haven't yet found a quick work around for this short coming in
LoadTiddlers.

Thanks
Skye

[Tobias Beer]

I am not in the business of providing a working solution right now...
but here's what has been going through my mind every now and then...

I know that...
- frames can address each other via javascript
- you can embed complete tw's into one another via iframes

Provided that you are the 'admin' or 'author' of either and that both
documents sit on the same domain... shouldn't it be 'fairly simple'
to...
- access the contents across frames
- trigger js functions in the tw of the other frame
- like querying for search results and retrieving (!) results
- read AND write content from AND to the other tiddlywiki
- switch the embedded tiddlywiki into 'fullscreen' mode... pseudo-
hiding the outer one

?

[Amzg]

Thank you all.

Måns,

Bidix's UploadTiddlerPlugin;
1) does it let you upload both updated tiddlers and *brand new*
tiddlers?
2) does it allow choosing between multiple external TWs to upload to?
3) would those check boxes be possible to place in the tiddler
template? (but of course only uploading the name+tags+contents)

iFrame;
I've used it too, but the major drawback is of course lack of
integration with the central TW. I.e it does not make sense to, for
instance, tag central tiddlers with names of external tiddlers.
...but, thinking of it, just maybe it *would* work in combo with
Abegos IncludePlugin (IP). IP would let you use tags and the iFrame
would let you edit the source tiddler. Now if only the iFrame could be
connected with the IP-tiddler somehow...

TiddlyChatter looks interesting, but I think I understand the 'hair
aspect' you refer to. (BTW, slick color scheme for TiddlyChatter!)


Maybe that TiddlyWeb project will solve all this? Too advanced for me
though.
http://www.tiddlyweb.com/

Thank you!

[Amzg]

On Nov 11, 12:41 pm, Eric Shulman <elsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Both ExportTiddlersPlugin (interactive) and SaveAsPlugin (macro) can
> be used to *merge* selected tiddlers into an existing TW document.

Interesting. I've read the plugin descriptions but if I understand it
correctly it does not quite solve the suggested push idea outlined in
the first post. I'm guessing that "mering" at best adds stuff to a
already existing tiddler (as opposed to e.g freely replacing the
contents) and it seems some work in specifying exactly which tiddlers
to 'push' that cannot be automated.

Interesting plugins though!

[Måns]

> Bidix's UploadTiddlerPlugin;
> 1) does it let you upload both updated tiddlers and *brand new*
> tiddlers?

Yes (one problem I've discovered though is that you can't really
delete a tiddler completely - You can replace it with a modified
tiddler - but not delete, unless you make a total upload of the whole
TW document. )

> 2) does it allow choosing between multiple external TWs to upload to?

Yes, but one at a time - use the box UploadTiddlerStoreUrl : <<option
txtUploadTiddlerStoreUrl>>

> 3) would those check boxes be possible to place in the tiddler
> template? (but of course only uploading the name+tags+contents)

The checkboxes I use - simply add fieldvalues or tags to tiddlers -
it's the script which runs an "update" of the tiddlers tagged with a
specified tag that does the actual "saveselectedtiddlers2web" action.

...but, thinking of it, just maybe it *would* work in combo with
> Abegos IncludePlugin (IP). IP would let you use tags and the iFrame
> would let you edit the source tiddler. Now if only the iFrame could be
> connected with the IP-tiddler somehow...

You would need to rerun the "IP" everytime (Page reload) you needed
the masterTW to reflect your changes - so it's not very usable - yet..

> TiddlyChatter looks interesting, but I think I understand the 'hair
> aspect' you refer to. (BTW, slick color scheme for TiddlyChatter!)

Here's a discussion started by Paolo Soares addressing some of the
limitations of the plugin: http://tinyurl.com/yf6ye69

> Maybe that TiddlyWeb project will solve all this? Too advanced for me
> though.http://www.tiddlyweb.com/

I hope so - there is a very interesting thread about a possible
portable solution: http://tinyurl.com/yj6235g
> Thank you!
You are absolutely welcome.

regards Måns Mårtensson

[Eric Shulman]

> Interesting. I've read the plugin descriptions but if I understand it
> correctly it does not quite solve the suggested push idea outlined in

> the first post. I'm guessing that "merging" at best adds stuff to a

> already existing tiddler (as opposed to e.g freely replacing the
> contents)

That is not correct. ExportTiddlersPlugin and SaveAsPlugin merge
*documents*, not tiddlers. If an existing document contains 5
tiddlers: A,B,C,D, and E, and then you export or saveas tiddlers named
C,E,X,Y and Z, then the resulting document would contain tiddlers
A,B,C,D,E,X,Y and Z, where the previous C and E tiddlers have been
replaced by new ones and X,Y, and Z have been added.

> it seems some work in specifying exactly which tiddlers
> to 'push' that cannot be automated.

Using SaveAsPlugin, you can select tiddlers by tag value. When
loading tiddlers from another document (using LoadTiddlerPlugin), you
could add a unique tag so they can then be selected later on when
using <<saveAs ...>> to update the other document.

-e

[AlanBCohen]

Tobias,
Thanks for the information on using iframes to embed one TW file in
the GUI on another. I implemented that earlier today between several
files I use as more or less static data repositories and my work
machine homepage.

Alan

[Amzg]

Valuable input, but it seems there is no decent solution.

Regarding the iframe semi-solution, I just wish to mention these
plugins;

http://tw.lewcid.org//#FullScreenPlugin (note/warning; it is 3+ years
old.)
http://www.tiddlytools.com/#ToggleFullScreen

Maybe when loading the iframe it's possible to evoke such a plugin
there at the same time?

[Tobias Beer]

Looks like it's about time (for me) to do some cross-frame scripting
trials.

Tobias.